Topic: Stockholm Incident

[telekon]

And all I'm saying is that you have no basis for saying that. These people are explicit about what they are doing and why. They are acting totally in accordance with their stated aims and their behaviour doesn't make sense if all they're after is power and influence. Especially the current spate of ISIS inspired lone wolf attacks that are simply designed to kill people with no demands, no control and no benefit in terms of 'power and influence'.

Here you seem to be shifting the goal posts. There is a distinct difference between ISIS and "lone wolfs". ISIS is a systemic cultural ideology that is driven by territory, influence, power, resources, and that uses a perverted version of Islam as justification. "Lone wolfs" is one individual (not a group or a tribe or a nation state) that acts out of personal reasons (these might be the same reasons that drives people to join ISIS) such as desperation due to socioeconomic issues or mental illness.

Akilov, for example, was denied residence permit and was denied asylum and was due to be deported as his case went to the police since he absconded. This is obviously not a justification for the heinous crime that he committed, but circumstances (coupled with his alleged interest in extremism and ISIS) that led to it.

[electricghost]

I am sure this by Faisal Al Mutar has been posted before, but it is worth doing so again


It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic Jihadist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the Jihadists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility.

It’s like a bad Monty Python sketch:

“We did this because our holy texts exhort us to to do it.”

“No you didn’t.”

“Wait, what? Yes we did…”

“No, this has nothing to do with religion. You guys are just using religion as a front for social and geopolitical reasons.”

“WHAT!? Did you even read our official statement? We give explicit Quranic justification. This is jihad, a holy crusade against pagans, blasphemers, and disbelievers.”

“No, this is definitely not a Muslim thing. You guys are not true Muslims, and you defame a great religion by saying so.”

“Huh!? Who are you to tell us we’re not true Muslims!? Islam is literally at the core of everything we do, and we have implemented the truest most literal and honest interpretation of its founding texts. It is our very reason for being.”

“Nope. We created you. We installed a social and economic system that alienates and disenfranchises you, and that’s why you did this. We’re sorry.”

“What? Why are you apologizing? We just slaughtered you mercilessly in the streets. We targeted unwitting civilians – disenfranchisement doesn’t even enter into it!”

“Listen, it’s our fault. We don’t blame you for feeling unwelcome and lashing out.”

“Seriously, stop taking credit for this! We worked really hard to pull this off, and we’re not going to let you take it away from us.”

“No, we nourished your extremism. We accept full blame.”

“OMG, how many people do we have to kill around here to finally get our message across?”

[Xabi Gerrard]

Thanks for starting this point. I was about to make a point about 'Islamaphobia', and search to see if there was another thread, but since it's here...

I find it so weird that people have taken this term up so unthinkingly. I can understand why that is, as a lot of people don't waste their time pondering things that I find interesting!

Islamaphobia is a term cooked up by right-wing Islamists and theocrats, designed purely to shut down debate about their religion. A religion isn't a person, and isn't subject to the same freedoms a person deserves. A lot of the people who cite Islamaphobia as a thing are then heard criticising the likes of Scientology,  Mormons or other organisations. That's inconsistent. Religions deserve scrutiny. Whether someone identifies as Rastafarian, Scientologist, Protestant, Mormon doesn't matter. None are more valid than the other.

Xenophobia and racism are perfectly reasonable terms to capture and describe discrimination faced by people. Criticising the crazy parts of religions, and Islam has many, is not a bad thing nor should the religions followers have a problem with it.

As an atheist, you could say I'm Islamaphobic - as much as you could say I'm a Catholophobe and Buddhaphobe too.

What's the word one should use to describe the specific type of hatred certain people show towards Muslims? I dont mean people who criticise the religion of Islam, I mean specifically the type of hatred aimed at muslim people? EDL or Pegida types who'll abuse a woman in the street for wearing a hijab.

I dont think 'xenophopbia' or 'racism' capture this as it's not directed a different country or race.

[classycarra]

What's the word one should use to describe the specific type of hatred certain people show towards Muslims? I dont mean people who criticise the religion of Islam, I mean specifically the type of hatred aimed at muslim people? EDL or Pegida types who'll abuse a woman in the street for wearing a hijab.

I dont think 'xenophopbia' or 'racism' capture this as it's not directed a different country or race.

What word did we use to describe the specific hatred certain people in London showed toward the Irish?

That's a genuine question. I think we stuck with racism and xenophobia, and don't think that lacked the specificity we desire in language, but I wasn't around at the height of it so don't know.

Is there a word for the hatred of, say, Coptic Christians?

[electricghost]

What's the word one should use to describe the specific type of hatred certain people show towards Muslims? I dont mean people who criticise the religion of Islam, I mean specifically the type of hatred aimed at muslim people? EDL or Pegida types who'll abuse a woman in the street for wearing a hijab.

I dont think 'xenophopbia' or 'racism' capture this as it's not directed a different country or race.

Anti Muslim bigotry

[Xabi Gerrard]

What word did we use to describe the specific hatred certain people in London showed toward the Irish?

That's a genuine question. I think we stuck with racism and xenophobia, and don't think that lacked the specificity we desire in language, but I wasn't around at the height of it so don't know.

Is there a word for the hatred of, say, Coptic Christians?

I dont know either about the IRA, I was too young to appreciate fully what was going on during the Troubles. Was there this level of anti-Irish sentiment at the time? Political parties and groups like EDL and Pegida popping up because they hate Irish people? I guess if so it could come under xenophobia, as in hating people from a specific country? Maybe? I don't know.

I know there's a word for people who hate Jews though - anti-semitic. I'd consider that a closer parallel to the hatred of Muslim people as both groups comprise many nationalities and races.

[Alan_X]

ISIS is a systemic cultural ideology that is driven by territory, influence, power, resources, and that uses a perverted version of Islam as justification.

Err....says who?

[cloggypop]

What word did we use to describe the specific hatred certain people in London showed toward the Irish?

Hibernophobia is what should probably have been used.

[Conocinico]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/A2gZk0fCmyo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/A2gZk0fCmyo</a>

This is an 18-minute episode in a 15-part series on Islam & ISIS, which details how the actions of ISIS follow the teachings of the Quran and the Hadith to the letter. I picked this episode as it displays the savagery within Islam very clearly, although any episode could probably have done the job just as well.