Topic: Brazilian Porn Review Topic (Warning: may contain Wijnaldum)

[Giono]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that statement in the slightest.

Who could you plug in there would make such a difference to turn matches around with this supporting cast? Compare that to having simple replacements for Mane and Lallana? Gini with Lallana and Mane making runs for him is highly effective ...with a static Can and lost Origi...not so much.

[paulrazor]

yesterday no one really played well in fairness. Other than coutinho most were shit

[Cpt_Reina]

yesterday no one really played well in fairness. Other than coutinho most were shit

Its not a one game thing with Gini though is it?

Bar the odd purple patch for 2 or 3 games he's largely been a 6 or 7 out of 10 all season, he needs to be doing much more than he is.

[IgorBobbins]

Who could you plug in there would make such a difference to turn matches around with this supporting cast? Compare that to having simple replacements for Mane and Lallana? Gini with Lallana and Mane making runs for him is highly effective ...with a static Can and lost Origi...not so much.

Apologies - I thought you meant there was no one else on the market that we could have to improve on his position!  I agree - there's no one in our squad (fit) who could replace/improve on him.  But that's damning endictment of our playing squad.

[paddysour]

Wijnaldum touched the ball less than everyone bar Mignolet and Origi. Reverse ball on twitter has compiled the stats on this, the common theme in our defeats are the midfielders not touching the ball enough when we're getting 70% possession. It makes no sense.

[paulrazor]

Its not a one game thing with Gini though is it?

Bar the odd purple patch for 2 or 3 games he's largely been a 6 or 7 out of 10 all season, he needs to be doing much more than he is.

since christmas he has been one of our better players

kind of does an unnoticed underated job. I know there has been games he hasnt really got involved. still pleased we signed him

[Cpt_Reina]

since christmas he has been one of our better players

kind of does an unnoticed underated job. I know there has been games he hasnt really got involved. still pleased we signed him

Im pleased to have him onboard, im not pleased that he's playing so much.

Can't help but roll my eyes whenever people say his work goes unnoticed, as if we cannot expect a player to be able to keep the ball well, press, relieve pressure AND do more on the ball itself.

I know exactly what Wijnaldum brings to the team in those regards and frankly, its nothing special, useful, necessary but nothing to write home about. Its sort of the bare minimum in a Klopp team.

[IgorBobbins]

since christmas he has been one of our better players

kind of does an unnoticed underated job. I know there has been games he hasnt really got involved. still pleased we signed him

Damning with faint praise! 

[AaronSingh25]

Stats once again show he touched the ball far fewer than most players in the team. Once again less than anyone else in the midfield by a long mile. This was the theme in the West Brom game, and a fair few other matches.

Either he isn't imposing himself on games, demanding the ball, or more worrying 'is hiding' and shirking responsibility.

There is a good player in him though, he just needs a rite type of mentality coaching - either encouraging or scolded.

[MobileBayRed]

Im pleased to have him onboard, im not pleased that he's playing so much.

Can't help but roll my eyes whenever people say his work goes unnoticed, as if we cannot expect a player to be able to keep the ball well, press, relieve pressure AND do more on the ball itself.

I know exactly what Wijnaldum brings to the team in those regards and frankly, its nothing special, useful, necessary but nothing to write home about. Its sort of the bare minimum in a Klopp team.

I'm with you, though I'm not sure what he is or even what he is supposed to be.  He goes long stretches of minutes without ever being noticed, which is really weird in a 3 man midfield.  He doesn't exactly create goals or score them very regularly.  He's not as good as Lallana at turning people over or at creating chances.  He doesn't do the defensive work of Can.  As you say, he's just sort of there, doing things, not particularly bad, but not particularly useful either.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Klopp switching him and Can was completely bizarre given that Wijnaldum likes making those in-to-out runs to the left when Coutinho comes inside and we had a bit of joy 2/3 times

That said, Wijnaldum has absolutely no business starting every week for us next season.

[AaronSingh25]

Rewatched the game - the sheer volume of times he passes responsibility was astonishing.

Few nice little touches, and a square pass. Then nothing. No penetrating run, no moving into space and demanding the ball. Just strolling, and worst still i got the feeling he didn't want the ball.

It was only when under pressure, and no pass on he actually shows his talent when he is forced to play on instinct and get himself out of trouble. You can see in those moments he has talent.

We have a decent player in him, and Klopp must be breaking his balls for him to literally grow a pair.

It's exactly in matches like this he needs to impose himself on the bloody game and take charge, he's an international player, playing in the midfield and must impose himself.

[Pistolero]

if, as one poster had it, the less you see of him the better he's playing, yesterday was his best game of the season....

[Filler.]

He's had a very solid season. Been quietly impressed for quite a while. I'd also like the quietness to get a bit louder as is often said. There are ways to create room to grow by fans, and there are ways to close doors. He was a very good cog in an enjoyable team to watch for part of this season, but we do need a bit bloody more from him. He can do it aswell! That's the frustration for me.

[jillcwhomever]

He's had a very solid season. Been quietly impressed for quite a while. I'd also like the quietness to get a bit louder as is often said. There are ways to create room to grow by fans, and there are ways to close doors. He was a very good cog in an enjoyable team to watch for part of this season, but we do need a bit bloody more from him. He can do it aswell! That's the frustration for me.

It is his first season though sometimes you need time to bed in at a football club like this. I think he will be even better next season, he's already shown some lovely touches. Looking forward to seeing him make further progress.

[joekim87]

He isn't going to develop into a world class player but you don't need a world class player in every position to win the league or the CL. In our system I think he is between a good and great player. Closer to good than great though. He is not injury prone and he has shown good mentality to come back and make amends for mistakes in games. I'd only have Coutinho in the 'between great and world class' category. Who else on our team is head and shoulders better than Gini?

[IgorBobbins]

He isn't going to develop into a world class player but you don't need a world class player in every position to win the league or the CL. In our system I think he is between a good and great player. Closer to good than great though. He is not injury prone and he has shown good mentality to come back and make amends for mistakes in games. I'd only have Coutinho in the 'between great and world class' category. Who else on our team is head and shoulders better than Gini?

That says a lot about our squad, then!

[CallumLFC]

if, as one poster had it, the less you see of him the better he's playing,

Some of the shite that is posted here

[BER]

Very important player for how we want to play, one of our most consistent too.

An inspired, creative signing. I can't wait to see who we get to compliment himself and Lallana for next season.

[paulrazor]

if, as one poster had it, the less you see of him the better he's playing, yesterday was his best game of the season....

who?

[diegoLFC7]

Behind Coutinho Wijnaldum is our best technical player. Is never injured, and puts in an above average performance every game.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Behind Coutinho Wijnaldum is our best technical player.

I have no idea what this is based on.

[Titi Camara]

In the age of Veruca Salt instant gratification I think some forgot that we have mid to long term plans.

This isn't directed pointedly at Gini btw...

When Klopp came in, assessed the squad and saw some of the gaping holes he obviously made strides to fill them. Given the position of LFC when he came in though, if we needed an attacker we all knew Messi wasn't on the cards.

You have to spend to improve the players you have, coach them to get every percent possible from the group, then if you've been successful, you're position improves and your ability to attract a higher bracket of player improves with it.

You then go back to the market to buy better players, hopefully they quickly transition and improve the starting 11 which in turn improves your second string.

There is no doubt we've improved, the league position speaks for itself. Buy well in the summer, improve the first 11 and by proxy the second string, then when we move into next season the depth will be baked in and we can have a real bash at the title.

[Art of Lies]

who?

Probably some noob with a low post count, likely a clueless wool that knows nothing about proper football.

It could even have been me..

In my defence the point I was making was that Gini has a decent football brain so his style of play doesn't involve a lot of last gasp tackles and desperate blocks because he understands positioning and knows his role. Some people seem to only rate a player when he is making desperate tackles as it shows they have "character" and "heart" and I said that it was likely that this was the reason that some people thought he was invisible while others thought he had a great game. So that was the context to that comment.

That doesn't mean to say that he, or any other player, can't have a bad game or is immune to criticism. I just believe that he is being judged by some for not performing a role in the team that he isn't being instructed to perform.

[Oberyn_Martell]

He's a really smart player, earlier in the season when we were playing really well in attack, he was along with Firmino one of the players who would literally always pick the right pass to someone in a good goalscoring postion. Its a weird season in that we've defended really well against top half sides so I dont think its cause they arent trying. I dont really know what it is, but cant really blame the players all the time.

[Dodge City]

After 30 odd games or so this season: my conclusion.

Wijnaldum is worryingly meh.

[Giono]

Gini is going through a quiet patch. Oddly Lucas has picked up some of the slack with a few assists.


Not surprised really as a Lucas - Can - Gini midfield is a quite a bit different than Hendo-Gini-Lallana.

[thekitkatshuffler]

Gini is going through a quiet patch. Oddly Lucas has picked up some of the slack with a few assists.


Not surprised really as a Lucas - Can - Gini midfield is a quite a bit different than Hendo-Gini-Lallana.

He's been frustrating lately.

Mostly because he's so obviously got a great football brain and the talent to back it up, but he's been very sloppy of late.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

More than any of our players he's symptomatic of our season. Superb when the game is 100mph, which brings his physicality in 1v1 duels and ability to pass and move into space into play, but he's ponderous and struggles to impose himself when it's not and he's faced with a deep-lying defence.

A post above says he's "worryingly meh." I'm not sure meh is fair but even if it was I don't think there's anything worrying about it. He'll be a superb first 15 or so player for us next season and has more than earned his place in those big games.

When faced with a different task which he has repeatedly struggled in, he might be best from the bench sometimes. And there's absolutely nothing worrying about having good players on the bench.

[Redcap]

After 30 odd games or so this season: my conclusion.

Wijnaldum is worryingly meh.

5 goals and 6 assists from central midfield. i.e. the second most productive CM in goals+assists this season after Lallana.

Your post is worryingly meh.

[Yiannis]

The things he could improve currently is be more assured and also show a bit more urgency with the ball on his feet. Not on his best form now but overall he has had a good season.

[Koprich]

More than any of our players he's symptomatic of our season. Superb when the game is 100mph, which brings his physicality in 1v1 duels and ability to pass and move into space into play, but he's ponderous and struggles to impose himself when it's not and he's faced with a deep-lying defence.

A post above says he's "worryingly meh." I'm not sure meh is fair but even if it was I don't think there's anything worrying about it. He'll be a superb first 15 or so player for us next season and has more than earned his place in those big games.

When faced with a different task which he has repeatedly struggled in, he might be best from the bench sometimes. And there's absolutely nothing worrying about having good players on the bench.

Nailed it.

He does his best football when the game has flow and there's an urgency about our play. Doesn't seem to want to be the one to instigate that though.

He's also a bit too selfless. There were two occasions yesterday when I was screaming at him to take a step and shoot but he tried to find a team mate who was actually more tightly marked than he was.

Not bad for a 1st season but definitely room for improvement.

[paulrazor]

Not bad for a 1st season but definitely room for improvement.

yep

he was a bit quiet yesterday

[Tony19:6]

yep

he was a bit quiet yesterday

Read somewhere he touched the ball the least out of all our players?

[Pistolero]

had an odd game...was involved more than he was against Palace ...but seemed constantly hesitant and was guilty again of misplacing / under-hitting / over-hitting fairly straightforward passes .....hopefully the more expansive game against Southampton (i said hopefully) will be more of a showcase for his talents

[paulrazor]

Read somewhere he touched the ball the least out of all our players?

doesnt surprise me

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Read somewhere he touched the ball the least out of all our players?

Him being one of the lowest touchers / passers on our team has been a recurring theme in these games. Just shouldn't happen as a central midfielder

[SerbianScouser]

Passes per game this season:

Can       48.6
Lallana  45.1
Gini       45.0

...nothing to see here.

[JackWard33]

Passes per game this season:

Can       48.6
Lallana  45.1
Gini       45.0

...nothing to see here.

Where are these from?

Squawka has per 90 as

Can           59
Lallana      53
Wijnaldam  49

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Where are these from?

Squawka has per 90 as

Can           59
Lallana      53
Wijnaldam  49

His are from WhoScored, I read them this morning. They'll be based on per game rather than per 90.

Whatever the stats say, he's probably failed to impose himself on more games than he's succeeded. That definitely can't be said for Henderson or Lallana and perhaps not Emre Can either though what I would say is when Wijnaldum plays poorly it doesn't adversely affect us as much as a bad Can or Henderson performance does (Swansea at home for the latter, first half of Burnley at home for the former etc).

That's probably because we rely on those two more to build attacks from deep though.