Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Antics]

I'm honestly numb to these now. When there's zero action after someone guns down 20 kids 2 years ago, you just have to hold your hands up and leave them to it.

[Mouth]

This is the story of what went down with 4chan

http://gawker.com/how-4chan-trolled-two-of-its-friends-by-framing-them-fo-1734265649

It might well turn out that they had nothing to do with it at all and the gunman was never on 4chan, it was just a random coincidence. These sorts of twisted jokes are made on there every single day, this time it might have been at the wrong time, surprising thing really is that its the first time its coincided given how often they make these kinds of jokes.

[beardsley4ever]

I'm honestly numb to these now. When there's zero action after someone guns down 20 kids 2 years ago, you just have to hold your hands up and leave them to it.

Yeah, pretty much this for me too, unfortunately.

[Corkboy]

This is the story of what went down with 4chan

http://gawker.com/how-4chan-trolled-two-of-its-friends-by-framing-them-fo-1734265649

Interesting but wrong from the get go. Nobody on 4chan has friends.

[Red Beret]

If this is real, it's terrifying.

[Alan_X]

If this is real, it's terrifying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_UuImPL4E

[Twelfth Man]

If this is real, it's terrifying.

Reminds me of that brilliant opening scene with Snoop in The Wire, when she's choosing a nail gun in the store... terrifying.

[Mouth]

If this is real, it's terrifying.

Its not real.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/nailgun.asp

[shanklygirl]

So this time "they" targeted Christians?

America will never wake up I fear....


They fear islamic terrorism.   

Which is real.

But, this week for two weeks in a row over 50 people have been shot only in Chicago.

Who needs Al Qaeda when you have that sort of internal effiency.

[Red Beret]

Its not real.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/technology/nailgun.asp

I'm relieved the the caption is fake, although I'm disturbed that I had to ask for confirmation.

[B0151?]

So this time "they" targeted Christians?

America will never wake up I fear....


They fear islamic terrorism.   

Which is real.

But, this week for two weeks in a row over 50 people have been shot only in Chicago.

Who needs Al Qaeda when you have that sort of internal effiency.

The inner city violence is absolutely terrifying. Look what that turns into murder rate wise for black Americans.

[Alan_X]

Reminds me of that brilliant opening scene with Snoop in The Wire, when she's choosing a nail gun in the store... terrifying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_UuImPL4E

[Messiah]

2 more shootings in US colleges today. One in Arizona, one in Texas.

[Packalacky]

When even a die hard liberal like Sanders is against many of the proposed gun controls, you know nothing is ever going to change, regardless of how many school shootings there are.

[Trada]

[jambutty]

Gun ownership is mandatory in Texas.

[KillieRed]

Maybe an effective deterrent would be to shut down colleges and schools, make public congregation illegal and mandatory firearms for those able to hold a gun. The spirit of the  (fake)old west would prevail and America would be great again.

[lindylou100]

It's frustrating because most americans want some form of restriction and checks on gun ownership but their voices mean nothing because congress is awash with NRA money. Thats the shocking thing for me, that it can be legal for a specialist interest group to skew government to the the point where it can deny the will of the majority of americans.

[Trada]

[gazzalfc]

This actually scares me

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160105/statement-on-president-obamas-proposed-executive-actions-on-gun-control

The executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, Chris W. Cox, released the following statement on Tuesday regarding President Barack Obama's Executive Gun Control Order:

Once again, President Obama has chosen to engage in political rhetoric, instead of offering meaningful solutions to our nation's pressing problems.  Today's event also represents an ongoing attempt to distract attention away from his lack of a coherent strategy to keep the American people safe from terrorist attack.

The American people do not need more emotional, condescending lectures that are completely devoid of facts.  The men and women of the National Rifle Association take a back seat to no one when it comes to keeping our communities safe.  But the fact is that President Obama's proposals would not have prevented any of the horrific events he mentioned.  The timing of this announcement, in the eighth and final year of his presidency, demonstrates not only political exploitation but a fundamental lack of seriousness.

The proposed executive actions are ripe for abuse by the Obama Administration, which has made no secret of its contempt for the Second Amendment.  The NRA will continue to fight to protect the fundamental, individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms as guaranteed under our Constitution.  We will not allow law-abiding gun owners to be harassed or intimidated for engaging in lawful, constitutionally-protected activity – nor will we allow them to become scapegoats for President Obama's failed policies.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20160105/statement-on-president-obamas-proposed-executive-actions-on-gun-control

[KillieRed]

The NRA "will not allow", who the fuck are they to dictate government, any governments, policy?

Also they go on about the 2nd ammendment like it's the 10 commandments handed to Moses. It's an ammendment to a legal document which can be done away with if reasonable people think it suitable. Loons.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Just when things cant get any lower. I am at a loss of words. There are somethings that you just dont do. Because it is not moral. There needn't be a law for certain things. But this? How can this police even sleep peacefully at night or look at himself in the mirror? Whats next? Where do we draw the line? Sue the supermarket for emotional distress because they didnt have the potato wedges?

A white Chicago police officer who fatally shot a black teenager last December is suing his family for $10m (£6.9m), claiming emotional distress.

Robert Rialmo shot 19-year-old student Quintonio LeGrier six times, killing the boy's neighbour in the process.

Mr Rialmo says Mr LeGrier swung at him with a baseball bat from close range, but Mr LeGrier's lawyers say the two were at least 20ft (6m) apart.

The lawsuit comes amid a federal investigation into Chicago's police.

The investigation is focusing on the use of force by officers and the department's accountability procedures.

It was launched after weeks of protests over the police killing of a black teenager by a white officer.

Laquan McDonald, 17, was shot 16 times in 2014 by the officer, who was charged with murder over a year later.

The inquiry will take a similar form to those recently conducted in Baltimore and Ferguson, Missouri - as well as more than 20 other departments in recent years, and will look for systematic violations of US civil rights laws.

'A new low'

Joel Brodsky, Mr Rialmo's defence lawyer, said it was important in an atmosphere charged by police shootings to send a message that police are "not targets for assaults" and "suffer damage like anybody else".

Mr LeGrier's father, Antonio, filed a wrongful death lawsuit days after the shooting, saying his son was not armed with a weapon and was not a threat.

His lawyer, Basileios Foutris, said Mr Rialmo's lawsuit was "a new low even for the Chicago Police Department".

"First you shoot them, then you sue them," he said.

The lawsuit provides the officer's first public account of how he says the shooting happened.

Mr Rialmo, who was responding to a domestic disturbance call, says Mr LeGrier came charging at him down the stairs and swung a baseball bat at his head. Mr Rialmo says he backed away and shouted at Mr LeGrier to drop the bat, but drew his weapon and fired after the teenager swung the bat again.

Mr Rialmo fired six times, killing both Mr LeGrier and Bettie Jones, a neighbour who was standing behind the teenager.

"The fact that LeGrier's actions had forced Officer Rialmo to end LeGrier's life and to accidentally take the innocent life of Bettie Jones has caused, and will continue to cause, Officer Rialmo to suffer extreme emotional trauma," the lawsuit says.

Lawyers for Mr LeGrier's father and for Ms Jones say evidence indicates the officer was 20 or 30 feet (six to nine metres) away when he fired.

The LeGrier family's lawyer also questions why the teen would attack the officer since he was the one who called police.

"If you're calling multiple times for help are you going to charge a police officer and try to hit him with a bat? That's ridiculous," Mr Foutris said.

County prosecutors have asked the FBI to investigate the shooting. The Chicago Police Department has refused to comment.

Such a lawsuit by an officer is extraordinarily unusual, said Phil Turner, a former federal prosecutor and current defence attorney who is not connected to the case.

Speaking to the Associated Press news agency, he questioned whether a judge would give it any merit and said it appeared intended to intimidate Mr LeGrier's family.

He said he had never heard of an officer blaming his shooting victim for causing trauma.

Source: BBC

[KillieRed]

That is just shocking. Like the article said, it's intimidation.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Just when things cant get any lower. I am at a loss of words. There are somethings that you just dont do. Because it is not moral. There needn't be a law for certain things. But this? How can this police even sleep peacefully at night or look at himself in the mirror? Whats next? Where do we draw the line? Sue the supermarket for emotional distress because they didnt have the potato wedges?

That, right there, is an example of how wrecked the US is at the moment.

How can any country accept that?

[Trada]

Still going on.

Gunman reportedly shooting people at random in Kalamazoo, Michigan
At least five people are reported to have been killed by a lone gunman who is shooting people at random

05:37
Victims being shot "dead in their tracks"

Undersheriff tells local TV station

Quote We have had several shootings and they all appear to be related. What it looks like is somebody is driving around, finding people and shooting them dead in their tracks.

05:18
At least six dead in series of random shootings

Police in Kalamazoo County are searching for a white man who has been shooting people at random. Four were killed at the Cracker Barrel restaurant in Texas Townshhip and two at the Seelye Kia dealership. More follows

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12166934/Gunman-reportedly-shooting-people-at-random-in-Kalamazoo-Michigan.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Given that there are mass shootings pretty much every day in the US and apparantly the US population are "Ok with that" (ie not changing gun laws) - is it really worth posting about these events any more?

Mass shootings in America seem to be about as common as people going to the pub or buying milk or reading a paper in the UK..

Reading the stats - they had more mass shootings than days last year.

Pretty fucking pathetic for a country that thinks it's "advanced"

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

[BarryCrocker]

Given that there are mass shootings pretty much every day in the US and apparantly the US population are "Ok with that" (ie not changing gun laws) - is it really worth posting about these events any more?

May as well close the Barbarity of Syria, The War on Drugs, Climate Change, etc threads while we're at it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

May as well close the Barbarity of Syria, The War on Drugs, Climate Change, etc threads while we're at it.

Not really. Syria is a matter of international significance. The "War on Drugs" is ongoing and has sides that wish to resolve the issue. Climate change is ongoing.

Guns in America, despite the rhetoric now and again is something that the American People clearly want.

It's like us discussing spoons or something. There is no political will to change on their part. There is no groundswell of opinion against guns on their part.

They just don't seem to give a shit that tens of thousands of people get shot a year in their country.

I find that bizarre, but what can you do?

For instance 6,724 people have been shot ALREADY in the US in 2016 - and it's not even the end of fucking February.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

6,735 now

[capt k]

I talk to quite a few "Muricans" online, and id say 90% of those i talk to are of a  "its my gun, youll never take it from me" stance.

Even if my stats are skewed massively,by the small sample size i encounter, even if its half of that, 45-50% theres no way the rules are gonna change over there.too much money, and political pull from the NRA, and brain dead fuckwits who wont see the woods for the trees,

Sadly, i dont see a solution that will end well for those who would like to live in peace,.or they could all just arm themselves and shoot every one who they THINK may be a threat.{which would be fine if they where all white , be even more assured of safety if they where white AND A LAW ENFORCEMENT officer,see case history over the last 50 years }.

[bigbonedrawky]

Not really. Syria is a matter of international significance. The "War on Drugs" is ongoing and has sides that wish to resolve the issue.

US foreign policies are of huge International significance though and all these massacres have left a lot of people desensitised with a feeling of acceptance or apathy when it comes to the value of an American life.
This plays a big part in how the US deals with things like TWOT and TWOD If they can deal with things like Sandy Hook,without actually dealing with it and just accepting it with a "shit happens" attitude...Then ask yourself what value are they expected to give ( for example )to an Iraqi life in Falluja where shit happens and life is even cheaper.

Change America and you can change the World.
 

[Lone Star Red]

I talk to quite a few "Muricans" online, and id say 90% of those i talk to are of a  "its my gun, youll never take it from me" stance.

Even if my stats are skewed massively,by the small sample size i encounter, even if its half of that, 45-50% theres no way the rules are gonna change over there.too much money, and political pull from the NRA, and brain dead fuckwits who wont see the woods for the trees,

Sadly, i dont see a solution that will end well for those who would like to live in peace,.or they could all just arm themselves and shoot every one who they THINK may be a threat.{which would be fine if they where all white , be even more assured of safety if they where white AND A LAW ENFORCEMENT officer,see case history over the last 50 years }.

I completely understand people having a problem with the government stepping in and taking away their guns. I don't understand people who refuse to open up to the idea (at the very least) of having discussions about what we can do to improve gun safety in this country.

And yes, I know that the first group of people I mentioned often don't want to partake in the discussions.

[Alan_X]

As a slight sidestep the BBC's Storyville dsocumentary about the Black Panthers was fascinating. One of the first things the Panthers did to protect themselves from police brutality and general threat of attacck was to invoke the 2nd amendment.



For some reason the NRA and the Republicans thought that gun control was a good idea back then...

From Wiki:

The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill which repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after Republican assemblyman Don Mulford, the bill was crafted in response to members of the Black Panther party conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods while conducting what would later be termed copwatching. They garnered national attention after the Black Panthers marched bearing arms upon the California State Capitol to protest the bill.

Republicans in California supported increased gun control. California Governor Ronald Reagan was present when the protesters arrived and later commented that he saw “no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” and that guns were a “ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.” In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act “would work no hardship on the honest citizen.”

The bill was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan and became California penal code 25850 and 171c.

[bigbonedrawky]

As a slight sidestep the BBC's Storyville dsocumentary about the Black Panthers was fascinating. One of the first things the Panthers did to protect themselves from police brutality and general threat of attacck was to invoke the 2nd amendment.



For some reason the NRA and the Republicans thought that gun control was a good idea back then...

From Wiki:

The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill which repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after Republican assemblyman Don Mulford, the bill was crafted in response to members of the Black Panther party conducting armed patrols of Oakland neighborhoods while conducting what would later be termed copwatching. They garnered national attention after the Black Panthers marched bearing arms upon the California State Capitol to protest the bill.

Republicans in California supported increased gun control. California Governor Ronald Reagan was present when the protesters arrived and later commented that he saw “no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.” and that guns were a “ridiculous way to solve problems that have to be solved among people of good will.” In a later press conference, Reagan added that the Mulford Act “would work no hardship on the honest citizen.”

The bill was signed by Governor Ronald Reagan and became California penal code 25850 and 171c.

I was watching this last night and I must admit I found it funny listening to the gun control arguments coming from the Right.   

[Kenny's Jacket]

I completely understand people having a problem with the government stepping in and taking away their guns. I don't understand people who refuse to open up to the idea (at the very least) of having discussions about what we can do to improve gun safety in this country.

And yes, I know that the first group of people I mentioned often don't want to partake in the discussions.

Why?  I dont.

[Corkboy]

Here's a thing I posted on one of the now locked gun threads.



Can you see what's perplexing? The results used to be majority "correct", in that is factually correct to say having a gun in the house makes it a more dangerous place. As we get closer to modern day, the majority view literally gets more stupid.

Now, if we recall the wave of noise about Obama comin' to tek yer guns before and after he was elected, the fact that gun sales rocketed when he got elected because the Republicans and their NRA paymasters convinced their dumb supporters that Obama was tekkin dur guns (when of course nothing of the kind happened) it isn't hard to draw a connection. I'm middle aged, I can remember when political America was a much saner, more sensible grown up place. Like Alan showed above, Reagan the Redeemer would have been bounced in a week today for being a commie. But facts don't matter, the right is right and the negro President is still coming for the guns and giving away white taxes to black slouchers.

[Lone Star Red]

Why?  I dont.

Because there are millions of completely responsible gun owners in the U.S.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Because there are millions of completely responsible gun owners in the U.S.

What do these "millions of completely responsible gun owners"  do with their guns? Or put it another way, how do they use their guns?

[Lone Star Red]

What do these "millions of completely responsible gun owners"  do with their guns? Or put it another way, how do they use their guns?

My guess? Since I'm not a gun owner. They straight up just don't use them and they stay hidden/locked away in a safe. Or they hunt. Or they go to target ranges.

[Kenny's Jacket]

My guess? Since I'm not a gun owner. They straight up just don't use them and they stay hidden/locked away in a safe. Or they hunt. Or they go to target ranges.

So how about this. 

They are not used cos they are locked in a safe. Hmmmm ok, so pretty much no point having a gun then, right?

They go hunting.  OK well two suggestions. 1 Stop murdering animals for no reason. However if asking people to stop killing defenseless animals is too much then maybe the US can set up special hunting trips were everything is regulated and you can shoot the animals in a controlled environment.

Target range, same thing. Hire the guns at the range and give it back when you're finished.