Author Topic: The barbarity that is Syria  (Read 381330 times)

Offline JohnnoWhite

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The barbarity that is Syria
« on: May 14, 2013, 10:32:32 am »
To what depths of savagery has this appalling slaughter sunk now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22519770

Fucking hell fire. What next - eating the barbecued babies? Bastards.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:38:39 am by Johnnowhite »
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 10:35:49 am »
These are the people Cameron wants to arm. We tried that before, on many occasions. We're still at war with the same people in Afghanistan and Iraq. Should we really be arming them again.
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Offline Seebab

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 12:45:55 pm »
Rwanda part 2 and again we're doing nothing productive. Shocking.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 12:55:24 pm »
We should be taking this regime to pieces. But how? Nobody can afford it, politically. Last thing Obama needs is American soldiers in body bags or the vision of American planes bombing an Arab country right now.
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Offline rusty-la

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2013, 01:04:09 pm »
Rwanda part 2 and again we're doing nothing productive. Shocking.

Rwanda is one of the most shameful episodes in recent  History. We, the West, turned away and allowed mass Genocide to take place.

Looks to be happening again in Syria. God help them.


Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 01:07:44 pm »
Is there any nation in the Middle East, whose regime the west would side with, in the case of an uprising?

Saddam
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ahmedinejad
al-Assad
Taliban
Pakistan


Are we going to keep going until the US is running the show, throughout the region? Even when all these leaders are removed and replaced, the US is still going to have military presence in the country, and most likely prop up unpopular replacement regimes. But yet, strangest of all, the US support Israel.


The whole thing is crazy.



Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 01:11:12 pm »



The whole thing is crazy.



Yep, but don't think there's no method in the madness.
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Offline GBF

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 01:14:58 pm »
We should be taking this regime to pieces. But how? Nobody can afford it, politically. Last thing Obama needs is American soldiers in body bags or the vision of American planes bombing an Arab country right now.

it should not be US soldiers or UK soldiers to go there and sort the mess out, it should be everyone's soldiers through the UN Peace Keeping help Syria to sort that mess.

However, everyone - including those in the Arab league - are a bunch of hypocrites that are turning their head away because there is no economic value to help Syria.
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Offline Zeppelin

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 01:29:50 pm »
We should be taking this regime to pieces. But how? Nobody can afford it, politically. Last thing Obama needs is American soldiers in body bags or the vision of American planes bombing an Arab country right now.

But it's not the regime that's the subject of this video - the heart eating is by one of the rebels, not the regime. (I'm not by any means supporting the regime - just pointing out a fact.)

I don't know what the answer is - if the west intervenes and topples a corrupt regime (Iraq, Afganistan) they get criticised, yet they also get criticised for doing nothing in other cases. The UN should intervene, but the politics within the UN are so complex it seems to be unable to act.

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 01:30:31 pm »
But yet, strangest of all, the US support Israel.

The whole thing is crazy.

A liberal democracy supporting another liberal democracy in a region filled with dictatorships and religious theocracies? Lunacy indeed.....

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 01:33:43 pm »
No oil. No Americans. No news.
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Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 01:36:13 pm »
A liberal democracy supporting another liberal democracy in a region filled with dictatorships and religious theocracies? Lunacy indeed.....
You truly believe that?
Not having a go, just wondering.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2013, 01:56:25 pm »
You truly believe that?
Not having a go, just wondering.

I think shared values are certainly a factor in the relationship, though not the whole story by any means. The US isn't in it for the oil (there's none), the economic benefit (they're net contributors to the Israeli government/economy) or the general popularity for such support (self-evidently).

Now more than ever given what's going on in the region, the relationship makes sense.


Regarding intervention in Syria, what exactly should the US and the West be doing? Troops on the ground, no-fly zone, massive arming of the rebels?

Offline mactifosi

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2013, 02:07:41 pm »
Is there any nation in the Middle East, whose regime the west would side with, in the case of an uprising?

Saddam
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ahmedinejad
al-Assad
Taliban
Pakistan


Are we going to keep going until the US is running the show, throughout the region? Even when all these leaders are removed and replaced, the US is still going to have military presence in the country, and most likely prop up unpopular replacement regimes. But yet, strangest of all, the US support Israel.


The whole thing is crazy.

The irony being that the US and colonial powers helped all of these regimes:
- into power in some cases.
- propped them up.
- created the conditions for them to come to power.

Probably a few more to add to that list such as SA, Bahrain, Kuwait, Yemen whose regimes are equally brutal.


Basically we have de-stablised the region and until we remove some of the obstacles for stability it will continue.
 - the Palestinian conflict must be resolved.
Too many reasons to even list, it is the single biggest source of anger in the region fueling extremism.

 - the US must forge a peace with Iran. Instead of sticking to their guns about the Shah they should apologise for their role in the tyranny and barbarity he inflicted on Iran.
There is no regime on that list above which even comes close to his murderous reign - despite how we like to conveniently overlook this in the West.
Of course the current regime is less than ideal and the extremism is fueled by the above two points.

- We must support reformers not just talk about supporting them and then let them rot when they make the bold steps, as we did in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc.
We must support those groups who are actively engaged against Islamic extremism.
We must stop supporting brutal totalitarian regimes such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Yemen. These regimes create breeding grounds for these extremists groups.


- Shia uprisings in some of these countries are not the work of Al Qaeda as our media likes to report, they are a fight against brutal repression which the regimes like to falsely label as being Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is a Sunni disease, it has nothing to do with Shia Islam except for their desire to eradicate Shias.
It is no surprise that the same Al Qaeda backed groups which are murdering Shias across the region have now popped up in Syria.
Their presence is as much about sectarianism as it is about opposing Assad.



Syria is a metaphor for the region as a whole.
We have not supported the rebels to any significant degree. Sending a few hundred to Qatar for training is not enough.
Our lack of support has created a vacuum and anger resulting in many of those trained rebels migrating to extreme groups which are well funded.



Offline mactifosi

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2013, 02:21:16 pm »
A liberal democracy supporting another liberal democracy in a region filled with dictatorships and religious theocracies? Lunacy indeed.....

Israel is hardly liberal, it may have been 20 years ago but it beginning to resemble many of it's neighbours.
It is not a shining beacon of democracy for the region.

Who will stop the tide of Jewish extremism which could become a serious threat to the country and the region as a whole.

If you were Iran would you develop nuclear weapons or assume that these lunatics will not get enough power to carry out their threats of expansion?


Offline Seebab

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2013, 02:33:21 pm »
it should not be US soldiers or UK soldiers to go there and sort the mess out, it should be everyone's soldiers through the UN Peace Keeping help Syria to sort that mess.

However, everyone - including those in the Arab league - are a bunch of hypocrites that are turning their head away because there is no economic value to help Syria.

Agreed. It's time each country in the world stopped being so bloody egotistically patriotic and realise that we are all humans. Only the UN can stop this with a massive peacekeeping force.

Enough with arming one side or the other, just make this stop.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2013, 04:16:07 pm »
truly depressing, just heard about it on the telly and then on here - dear god we're going backwards aren't we.


Offline armchair-fan

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2013, 05:02:10 pm »
Is there any nation in the Middle East, whose regime the west would side with, in the case of an uprising?

Saddam
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ahmedinejad
al-Assad
Taliban
Pakistan


Are we going to keep going until the US is running the show, throughout the region? Even when all these leaders are removed and replaced, the US is still going to have military presence in the country, and most likely prop up unpopular replacement regimes. But yet, strangest of all, the US support Israel.


The whole thing is crazy.


Maybe I've misunderstood your post, but isn't a massive part of what we've been doing these past 12 years to stop Pakistan falling to the Taliban?  They've got the bomb, so I think it's a nailed on certainty that the US would do all they could to stop the regime in Pakistan falling. 

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2013, 05:41:55 pm »
truly depressing, just heard about it on the telly and then on here - dear god we're going backwards aren't we.


Did we ever go forward?

That's some hardcore old school warrior shit there. Pity he couldn't have been wearing a Liverpool shirt. Imagine that for a add campaign for the new shirt. "We come not to play!" In all serious, though, this sort of thing used to be common place. It's barbaric, yes, but it happened. These days, fellas like this just get locked up in a mental asylum for doing such things. What I find more shocking is the ignorance of the western world to what's really going on there. Sure, so long as the powers that be can make a big wad of cash by supplying them with guns, everything's gravy.

Offline rusty-la

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2013, 05:59:34 pm »
Agreed. It's time each country in the world stopped being so bloody egotistically patriotic and realise that we are all humans. Only the UN can stop this with a massive peacekeeping force.


I almost agree with the sentiment. The problem with the UN is its proven to be a toothlless, gutless force overseen by leaders with disparate political aims.

I dont wish to derail the thread by continually referring to Rwanda, but the UN were deployed there, and stood by as Women, Children and the elderly were slaughtered.   

As there was no Oil / natural resource of 'value' to the West,  we ignored it.  The same may be about to happen here.

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2013, 06:02:08 pm »
Is there any nation in the Middle East, whose regime the west would side with, in the case of an uprising?

Saddam
Gaddafi
Mubarak
Ahmedinejad
al-Assad
Taliban
Pakistan


Are we going to keep going until the US is running the show, throughout the region? Even when all these leaders are removed and replaced, the US is still going to have military presence in the country, and most likely prop up unpopular replacement regimes. But yet, strangest of all, the US support Israel.


The whole thing is crazy.



Pakistan (and arguably Iran) is (are) not in the Middle East mate.
But yes, they are all messed up, and you won't know whose side to join.
However, I am guessing that if outside nations intervened to depose the butcher that is Bashir earlier, things would have settled earlier.

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2013, 06:03:42 pm »
It's America's fault, I tells ya!
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Offline armchair-fan

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2013, 07:41:15 pm »
Pakistan (and arguably Iran) is (are) not in the Middle East mate.
But yes, they are all messed up, and you won't know whose side to join.
However, I am guessing that if outside nations intervened to depose the butcher that is Bashir earlier, things would have settled earlier.

To my mind neither Egypt or Libya are in the Middle East either.

Regarding your second point, I don't think those on the left know what they want.  When the US wades in and topples a regime - we're upset.  When the US doesn't wade into topple a regime - we're upset.

Regarding the UN, who do you think pays for the UN?  The US taxpayer.  The latest figures I've seen are that the US pays about 22% of UN budget, chuck in the UK too and you're looking at about 29% of the budget.  No surprise they get pissed off when China (3%) and Russia (1%) block what they want to do.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 09:04:57 pm by armchair-fan »

Offline Roopy

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2013, 11:53:54 pm »
To what depths of savagery has this appalling slaughter sunk now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22519770

Fucking hell fire. What next - eating the barbecued babies? Bastards.

Love how these guys are apparently supposed to be the good guys.

The same guys who say that every single Alawite will be slaughtered.

Both sides - the rebels & Assad - are fucked in the head.

Offline mactifosi

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2013, 10:36:10 am »
I thought this was quite relevant.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113152/christian-caryl-strange-rebels-reviewed-michael-kimmage#

"Jihad in Afghanistan, meanwhile, coincided with the fashioning of an Islamic Republic in neighboring Iran. The Shah’s Iran—“one of the world’s great economic success stories,” Caryl writes—was not expected to become the cradle of political Islam."

But he completely misses the point, it was not an economic success, it bore more resemblance to Ceaușescu's Romania.
There was success for the elite and persecution for the rest - it drove the Iranians to rebel. America compounded the problem by standing by their man instead of recognising him as a cold blooded killer. The resentment has festered, even has Iran has looked to develop and modernise, America stands in it's way at every turn.


"The revolution’s consequences were far-reaching: a lasting anti-American bulwark in the Middle East, the emboldening of anti-Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabian efforts to compete with Iran by projecting its version of political Islam globally"


In Syria today, we still see the effects of Saudi Arabia projecting it's version of political Islam, albeit in it's most extreme form.
There is nothing really new or shocking about the conflict in Syria, it has been the same story in Afghanistan before the war, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia etc.

The only thing that is new, is that we see the Iranian and Saudi ideologies meet head on, in front of the world's media.





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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 12:12:44 pm »
It's a lose-lose situation it seems, you help the rebels yet they ( or At least one faction)  seems like radicals which could turn into another Iraq typical situation down the line if you give them arms.

On the other hand the give meant seem like a bunch or c*nts that poisons and bomb there own people....not only that but it seems like people want America/uk to act upon the situation, without sending ground troops or air strikes that might kill the innocent.


So how does one fight a war without ground troops and no chance of civilian casualties.....impossible.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2013, 05:03:38 am »
Why the fuck is no one doing anything?

I've watched harrowing footage of this area that doesn't even begin to describe harrowing, sons and dads pulling dads and sons out of rubble, death, fear, death, bombs- and all for being in the area where the rebels are.

How the fuck can anyone have faith in any form of humanity, when these people are being slaughtered, and bombed by their own government, and our "leaders" don't give a flying fuck.

And now they are being gassed.

A lose-lose situation?

Of course, it is a lose lose situation when innocent people are heading to the slaughter regardless of who is firing the bullets or detonating the bombs and we stand by and watch.

Disgraceful. This sort of slaughter, bloodshed, and atrocity, makes me ashamed and depressed I am unable to do anything.

Who are we? What are we?

If I've been taken in, please educate me, but it appears to me, that Assad is killing innocent human beings with impunity, many are not rebels, I find it depressing and mortifying.

I'm not religious, but I hope there is a maker, because a lot of these people deserve to meet him.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:46:55 am by Hij »
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Offline Max_powers

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2013, 07:36:55 am »
This is sad but this happens quite a lot even today. Cannibalism has been reported to have happened in fair few African civil wars in recent times. As far as Syria and Middle east in general is concerned it really is fucked up beyond any repair partly due to American foreign policy. Basically America over the past 60 years have supported totalitarian regimes without questioning the consequences of doing so. Due to fear of Soviets at first and more recently to protect its interests and allies.

The rise of Islamic extremists is also a very tricky situation. A lot of middle east countries used to be  more liberal and open 40-50 years ago but Islamic extremists have done a good job brainwashing a lot of people and American Invasion of Iraq and Afganistan has only made people in Middle east more Anti-American and in many case more Pro-Extremist methods. Right now even in countries which are safe and secure, there is a undercurrent of such ideologies that could come back and cause further problems. IMO the only way to solve this crisis is in the long term economic development and education of the region. I really don't think fighting wars will stop any of this.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 07:39:31 am by Max_powers »

Offline benn25

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2013, 11:15:04 am »
One word.... meddling. The West have meddled so much its got to a point where its getting out of hand. Stop bloody meddling and there wont be these problems. Its like The West deliberately meddle in affairs so they have something to do.

Its ridiculous. Political discussions rather than troops is the way forward. Or even arming the rebels. Just makes the whole thing worse.
We just leave them be for a while, take a breather, let them settle, then bang!  All over them like a tramp on chips.

Offline Seebab

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2013, 01:43:47 pm »
One word.... meddling. The West have meddled so much its got to a point where its getting out of hand. Stop bloody meddling and there wont be these problems. Its like The West deliberately meddle in affairs so they have something to do.

Its ridiculous. Political discussions rather than troops is the way forward. Or even arming the rebels. Just makes the whole thing worse.

I agree with your "meddling" argument, but we're not in the days of colonialism anymore.

Now, globalisation takes place, everyone is always meddling into others' affairs. Maybe the UK (or any other country) is not militarily involved in what's going on in some foreign country, but you can guarantee that British multinationals, aid, expatriots and media are having some influence on the political, economical and social situation in said country. Therefore, it's impossible these days to have a country which isn't being meddled with.

I don't agree with your political dicussions bit. These politicians will spend hours, if not days, in their cozy meeting rooms talking about nothing important, with no first-hand knowledge about what is really going on and at the end of the day, billions of dollars will be spent on nothing.
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Offline alfonso

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2013, 04:46:38 am »
I just can't see an end to this. Even if the rebels take power, the inevitable in fighting will occur. Then will Lebanon become involved? The Golan Heights will be an issue as will Israel. Will the Islamic nut jobs try to 'free' Jordan?
That area is screwed for a generation at least.
Profits for the military industrial complex will increase though.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2013, 12:51:46 am »
I have this horrible vision of the world being over run by these types

Its localised at the moment to where they. But for how long?
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Offline KiNki

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2013, 12:59:04 am »
are you talking about america or the middle east?

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2013, 03:42:48 pm »
must mean america...
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when shanks was asked  how he relaxed,  he said  he looks at the league table and checks where everton are...

Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2013, 09:32:12 pm »
Sadly the Americans are anything but localised, which is part of the problem.

Offline AA1122

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2013, 10:11:46 pm »
I really hope they can find a way of negotiating some sort of resolution soon.

The danger or this escalating even further appears to be pretty bad. With Hezbollah fighting alongside the Syrian Army, you have to hope nothing flares up in Lebanon. Then there is the Iraq situation which is terrible, sectarian bombings almost daily at the moment and reports of Iraqis fighting with Syrian Army too.

On the other side, there are fighters from several countries representing the FSA and other rebel groups and we really don't know what these peoples' interests are (not all good I would imagine).

It is a terrible thing to say, but I hope it does not escalate out of Syria. Let's hope Syria can somehow have some normality soon.
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Offline AA1122

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2013, 10:02:47 pm »
'Seems like fighting has spread over to Lebanon, let's hope that stops. Hizbollah shelled in Beirut. Sectarian fighting in Tripoli. The battle for Qusair rages on (which seems to be the Army just trying to flatten everywhere with shelling), it is not clear who is on top. Both sides claiming they are. Meanwhile, Mccain visits (illegally) the rebels.

The 'cannibal' commander was injured the other day.


It really annoys me when people put the 'peace' signs up to the camera, he was ripping someone's heart out the other day.

Let's hope things somehow improve for people.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:18:48 pm by AA1122 »
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Offline AA1122

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2013, 11:11:15 pm »
EU have just lifted the arms embargo on rebels.
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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2013, 11:51:56 pm »
Why the fuck is no one doing anything?

Russia is doing something. It is continuing to arm the brutal Assad regime.

China is doing something. It is continuing to block UN military aid to the Free Syrian Army.

Iran is doing something. It has sent soldiers and weaponry to back up the Assad government.

Hezbollah is doing something. It has joined the fight on the side of Assad and is trying to provoke a wider sectarian war in the region.

The Saudis are doing something. They are funding Sunni fundamentalists and trying to turn the original popular rebellion into a jihadist war.

(Of course all the blame lies with the USA and Israel really) 
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Offline Noelle

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Re: The barbarity that is Syria
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2013, 12:14:30 am »