Author Topic: Dirk Kuyt  (Read 49397 times)

Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #440 on: March 3, 2012, 10:25:47 am »
Do they? I'm surprised by that.

But Kuyt is often said to run all day like a duracell bunny etcetera. Why wouldn't statistics on 'yards covered' back this assertion up?

Because some players may stagger about for the entire game, break into a jog for a bit then stagger about like Adam and Downing often do. The likes of Kuyt when they chase the ball full on sprint, then recharge and conserve energy, then when the ball is there to be won again they full on sprint.

Sorry but to even suggest that Kuyt doesnt work as hard as others or even harder than other smells of Agenda. Just take a look at the Final last week.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #441 on: March 3, 2012, 10:27:05 am »
I like him but he's like a dying dog that needs to put down.

Of course every (dying) dog has his day and that was Sunday but let's not forget how he ruins car journeys (games) by farting (playing very badly)

Thanks Dirk see you around.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #442 on: March 3, 2012, 10:29:32 am »
Because some players may stagger about for the entire game, break into a jog for a bit then stagger about like Adam and Downing often do. The likes of Kuyt when they chase the ball full on sprint, then recharge and conserve energy, then when the ball is there to be won again they full on sprint.

Sorry but to even suggest that Kuyt doesnt work as hard as others or even harder than other smells of Agenda. Just take a look at the Final last week.

That's a bad example isn't it? Kuyt came on to a desperately tiring field where most players had already played over 100 minutes. One would expect him to be fresher.

As for Downing. You've never seen him break into a "full sprint"?  I mean a proper sprint, of the kind Kuyt cannot do? He seems to me to do this quite a lot.

But as I say these are just impressions (that we both have). I was wondering whether there are any stats.
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #443 on: March 3, 2012, 10:31:18 am »
Do they? I'm surprised by that.

But Kuyt is often said to run all day like a duracell bunny etcetera. Why wouldn't statistics on 'yards covered' back this assertion up?

Surely the pace of a player's going to make a big difference to yards covered stats as well as how hard they work?
For example, Cisse was often stationery, but when he did run all of a sudden that's a lot of yards covered in the blink of an eye.
I think it's pretty obvious that Dirk works hard.

Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #444 on: March 3, 2012, 10:32:19 am »
That's a bad example isn't it? Kuyt came on to a desperately tiring field where most players had already played over 100 minutes. One would expect him to be fresher.

As for Downing. You've never seen him break into a "full sprint"?  I mean a proper sprint, of the kind Kuyt cannot do? He seems to me to do this quite a lot.

But as I say these are just impressions (that we both have). I was wondering whether there are any stats.

Its not though. He came on and chased the ball from one side of the field to the other, won the ball back, then sprinted back over to his position.

Something that not anyone in our team had done for the 100 minutes before he had got on.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #445 on: March 3, 2012, 10:32:25 am »
That's a bad example isn't it? Kuyt came on to a desperately tiring field where most players had already played over 100 minutes. One would expect him to be fresher.

As for Downing. You've never seen him break into a "full sprint"?  I mean a proper sprint, of the kind Kuyt cannot do? He seems to me to do this quite a lot.

But as I say these are just impressions (that we both have). I was wondering whether there are any stats.

bit in bold is a good reason to keep him Yorky dont you think, good management I call that! Kenny always knows no matter when Dirk comes on he will give 100%
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Offline mactifosi

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #446 on: March 3, 2012, 10:36:50 am »
Really annoys me the lack of appreciation for a great player.

I watched the later stages of the final with some Manc friends, as I got sick of listening to the moaning Liverpool supporters I was with.
Our supporters were slagging off kuyt etc. and scoffed at my 'here comes the match winner' comments when he came on.

In contrast the mancs, Kuyt is a great player etc etc but not a skillful player which is fair.
Before his pen, our lads were negative but the mancs were cursing - fuck kuyt will score, he always takes a great pen and sends the keeper the wrong way.

Modern football eh, sad when you can get more sense out of Mancs.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #447 on: March 3, 2012, 10:37:15 am »
Surely the pace of a player's going to make a big difference to yards covered stats as well as how hard they work?
For example, Cisse was often stationery, but when he did run all of a sudden that's a lot of yards covered in the blink of an eye.
I think it's pretty obvious that Dirk works hard.

It's not your fault but, interestingly, you've contradicted the case made by JamesLS7 who describes Kuyt in the way you describe Cisse - ie a player who puts in terrific sprints then has to recuperate.

Anyway, you think it's 'obvious' and I don't. In the absence of a proper measurement we can't know.



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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #448 on: March 3, 2012, 10:38:04 am »
It's not your fault but, interestingly, you've contradicted the case made by JamesLS7 who describes Kuyt in the way you describe Cisse - ie a player who puts in terrific sprints then has to recuperate.

Anyway, you think it's 'obvious' and I don't. In the absence of a proper measurement we can't know.

Your honestly claiming that Kuyt doesnt work ridiculously hard?
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #449 on: March 3, 2012, 10:39:19 am »
bit in bold is a good reason to keep him Yorky dont you think, good management I call that! Kenny always knows no matter when Dirk comes on he will give 100%

Sure. That's the case I'd make for Kuyt. As an impact sub, especially in games which go to extra time when everyone else is knackered. There again if someone offered good money for the fella in the summer I'd hope we'd take it.
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Offline Neil D

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #450 on: March 3, 2012, 10:40:37 am »
Kuyt's always praised for the amount of work he puts in. But does he work harder than others? Kuyt often seems stationary to me, especialy when we have the ball. I imagine Downing - just to pick someone often accused of slacking - covers far more yards per game than Kuyt. Does anyone have reliable stats on this?

Really? I'd say his movement, especially when we have the ball, is one of his key assets. He's always looking to get into space and receive a pass, especially after releasing the ball. It's the Dutch way and used to always be the Liverpool way after all. Very rarely do I see him stationary, unless it's after making a big run and recovering from a sprint, awaiting a ball he will hold up, or when he's holding his position because that is the right thing to do tactically.

I would say surely it's not the yards you cover but the speed you cover them at when tracking runners, closing people down, pressing the ball etc when we are dispossessed? For which there aren't really stats. On TAW the other day they said Charlie Adam had covered the most distance in a game, but I wouldn't say it was a game in which he had worked harder than others. I think the two things are different.

Watching the final highlights again last night when I got in, there was a moment after we scored, when Dirk was working like a maniac to press the tired Cardiff players. He was like a man possessed. While he doesn't always do this to this extent, because nobody could keep it up for 90 minutes, this is what I'm getting at, it's not the distance covered, it's this pressing and eagerness to win back possession that can only be judged qualitatively.

From 24.25 seconds

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp2kdy_cc-lfc-vs-cardiff-extra-time-26-02-12_lifestyle?start=0#from=embed
« Last Edit: March 3, 2012, 10:45:32 am by Neil D »

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #451 on: March 3, 2012, 10:40:58 am »
Your honestly claiming that Kuyt doesnt work ridiculously hard?

Final go because you appear a bit simple. I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. Not by you screaming at me, but by stats.
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Offline Discipline

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #452 on: March 3, 2012, 10:42:08 am »
Gerrard's goal against Newcastle also came from Kuyt running / putting pressure on the Newcastle defence.
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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #453 on: March 3, 2012, 10:42:47 am »
Final go because you appear a bit simple. I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. Not by you screaming at me, but by stats.

Sorry, but thats complete bullshit. If you cannot use your eyes to see Dirk works harder than most then its clear you are agenda driven.

To say Dirk doesnt work harder than Downing is ridiculous.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #454 on: March 3, 2012, 10:43:26 am »
Gerrard's goal against Newcastle also came from Kuyt running / putting pressure on the Newcastle defence.

Yeah but he doesnt work harder than Stewart Downing mate :lmao
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #455 on: March 3, 2012, 10:45:50 am »
Sure. That's the case I'd make for Kuyt. As an impact sub, especially in games which go to extra time when everyone else is knackered. There again if someone offered good money for the fella in the summer I'd hope we'd take it.

Mind you he made quite an  impact in the united game in the 90 minutes, although slightly different styles as a game changer, vital goal scorer etc, Kuyt-Fairclough in a super-sub role.
Also given we are in Europe next season unless it is an offer we cant refuse or Dirk actually wants more game time elsewhere I would keep him for the reason above.
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Offline Discipline

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #456 on: March 3, 2012, 10:47:43 am »
Yeah but he doesnt work harder than Stewart Downing mate :lmao

Can't argue against that!!!!
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #457 on: March 3, 2012, 10:48:40 am »
Really? I'd say his movement, especially when we have the ball, is one of his key assets. He's always looking to get into space and receive a pass, especially after releasing the ball. It's the Dutch way and used to always be the Liverpool way after all. Very rarely do I see him stationary, unless it's after making a big run, awaiting a ball he will hold up, or when he's holding his position because that is the right thing to do tactically.

I would say surely it's not the yards you cover but the speed you cover them at when tracking runners, closing people down, pressing the ball etc when we are dispossessed? For which there aren't really stats. On TAW the other day they said Charlie Adam had covered the most distance in a game, but I wouldn't say it was a game in which he had worked harder than others. I think the two things are different.

Watching the final highlights again last night when I got in, there was a moment after we scored, when Dirk was working like a maniac to press the tired Cardiff players. He was like a man possessed. While he doesn't always do this to this extent, because nobody could keep it up for 90 minutes, is what I'm getting at, it's not the distance covered, it's this pressing and eagerness to win back possession that can only be judged qualitatively.

From 24.25 seconds

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp2kdy_cc-lfc-vs-cardiff-extra-time-26-02-12_lifestyle?start=0#from=embed

It is the Dutch way Neil, but I'm not sure Dirk shares it. (Hence his perpetually strained relationship with Dutch football supporters). On the contrary I'm often amazed by how desperately poor the lad's movement is when we have the ball. I always have been, which is why we have often clashed on these threads.   ;D

When we don't have the ball he's more mobile. In days gone by he was a very good presser. Dirk could be relied on to run 20 or 30 yards to close down the goalkeeper for example. That's the sort of run that nobody can miss. It looks great. But too often it meant recuperating when we had the ball. 
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #458 on: March 3, 2012, 10:50:00 am »
Sorry, but thats complete bullshit. If you cannot use your eyes to see Dirk works harder than most then its clear you are agenda driven.

To say Dirk doesnt work harder than Downing is ridiculous.

Sorry, but that's just more screaming.
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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #459 on: March 3, 2012, 10:50:55 am »
Sorry, but that's just more screaming.

Better than your arguments which are more  bullshit.

Kuyt doesnt work harder than Stewart Downing. Thats honestly a shocker.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #460 on: March 3, 2012, 10:53:07 am »
It is the Dutch way Neil, but I'm not sure Dirk shares it. (Hence his perpetually strained relationship with Dutch football supporters). On the contrary I'm often amazed by how desperately poor the lad's movement is when we have the ball. I always have been, which is why we have often clashed on these threads.   ;D

When we don't have the ball he's more mobile. In days gone by he was a very good presser. Dirk could be relied on to run 20 or 30 yards to close down the goalkeeper for example. That's the sort of run that nobody can miss. It looks great. But too often it meant recuperating when we had the ball. 

Yorky I know you dont rate him but both Stevie and Nando in the past made a point of how it is Dirk's great running off the ball and taking players with him  that created the space for them to score so many goals. For a more recent one look again at Carrolls goal against the bitters. So i dont think the bit in bold really holds water in this discussion.
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #461 on: March 3, 2012, 10:53:46 am »
..... Kuyt-Fairclough in a super-sub role.

That's an interesting observation.
When he came on during the final last weekend, that comparison to Supersub immediately struck me and I even mentioned it to the wife.
Maybe time has dimmed my memory, but there even seemed to me to be remarkable physical similarity.
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #462 on: March 3, 2012, 10:53:52 am »
Yorky I know you dont rate him but both Stevie and Nando in the past made a point of how it is Dirk's great running off the ball and taking players with him  that created the space for them to score so many goals. For a more recent one look again at Carrolls goal against the bitters. So i dont think the bit in bold really holds water in this discussion.

Don't scream at him!  :no
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Offline petecolonia

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #463 on: March 3, 2012, 10:56:00 am »
To me Dirk gravitates towards making strikers runs and at those he is very, very good. I'm sure he'd be the first person to admit he's not suited to bombing up and down the wing at pace...
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #464 on: March 3, 2012, 10:56:44 am »
Really annoys me the lack of appreciation for a great player.

I watched the later stages of the final with some Manc friends, as I got sick of listening to the moaning Liverpool supporters I was with.
Our supporters were slagging off kuyt etc. and scoffed at my 'here comes the match winner' comments when he came on.

In contrast the mancs, Kuyt is a great player etc etc but not a skillful player which is fair.
Before his pen, our lads were negative but the mancs were cursing - fuck kuyt will score, he always takes a great pen and sends the keeper the wrong way.

Modern football eh, sad when you can get more sense out of Mancs.

Are you sure you haven't mixed up your friends? Our fans are generally appreciative of Kuyt and as for Man Utd fans, the less said the better.

In general I have seen after the 08-09 season our fans seem to like Kuyt a lot. I guess his some kind of record start for Holland helped his case too.
« Last Edit: March 3, 2012, 10:58:25 am by Niru Red4ever »
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #465 on: March 3, 2012, 10:57:35 am »
Don't scream at him!  :no

wrong guy perhaps :duh
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #466 on: March 3, 2012, 10:58:44 am »
wrong guy perhaps :duh

Taking the piss. Relax.
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #467 on: March 3, 2012, 11:02:02 am »
Yorky I know you dont rate him but both Stevie and Nando in the past made a point of how it is Dirk's great running off the ball and taking players with him  that created the space for them to score so many goals. For a more recent one look again at Carrolls goal against the bitters. So i dont think the bit in bold really holds water in this discussion.

I think Geoff it would be remarkable if Kuyt had never moved off the ball to create an opportunity. So, sure, we can point to goals here and there where Kuyt's movement has helped matters. And I would agree with anyone who said that Dirk knew how to work the penalty area. In fact I've often said this is his best skill. (He's the ultimate bug-liner ;)) I'm thinking more of his general build-up play. Liverpool have often struggled to keep possession because of Kuyt's poor movement. Sometimes he just stands still and looks at the player on the ball. I don't know whether this is because he's knackered or simply doesn't know what to do. Johnson, presently, suffers most from this immobility. 
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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #468 on: March 3, 2012, 11:04:01 am »
I think Geoff it would be remarkable if Kuyt had never moved off the ball to create an opportunity. So, sure, we can point to goals here and there where Kuyt's movement has helped matters. And I would agree with anyone who said that Dirk knew how to work the penalty area. In fact I've often said this is his best skill. (He's the ultimate bug-liner ;)) I'm thinking more of his general build-up play. Liverpool have often struggled to keep possession because of Kuyt's poor movement. Sometimes he just stands still and looks at the player on the ball. I don't know whether this is because he's knackered or simply doesn't know what to do. Johnson, presently, suffers most from this immobility.

Poor movement like when we put Maxi, Dirk and Suarez up top towards the end of last season and tore the league a new one with Dirk scoring in 6 games in a row ?

Mate, its clear you have an agenda against Dirk, to claim he has poor movement and doesnt work as hard as Stewart Downing shows that, so why come into the thread if  you arent even going acknowledge Dirks positives ?
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #469 on: March 3, 2012, 11:04:11 am »
Taking the piss. Relax.

so was I and am relaxed thanks. ;)
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #470 on: March 3, 2012, 11:05:02 am »
so was I and am relaxed thanks. ;)

No worries. :)
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #471 on: March 3, 2012, 11:06:04 am »
It is the Dutch way Neil, but I'm not sure Dirk shares it. (Hence his perpetually strained relationship with Dutch football supporters). On the contrary I'm often amazed by how desperately poor the lad's movement is when we have the ball. I always have been, which is why we have often clashed on these threads.   ;D

When we don't have the ball he's more mobile. In days gone by he was a very good presser. Dirk could be relied on to run 20 or 30 yards to close down the goalkeeper for example. That's the sort of run that nobody can miss. It looks great. But too often it meant recuperating when we had the ball.

seriously? I'm amazed you can make that statement.

to me this seems his greatest asset.

the guy doesn;'t have pace, but he is a clever footballer, always finds space to make himself available and never, ever hides .




Offline Neil D

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #472 on: March 3, 2012, 11:06:33 am »
It is the Dutch way Neil, but I'm not sure Dirk shares it. (Hence his perpetually strained relationship with Dutch football supporters). On the contrary I'm often amazed by how desperately poor the lad's movement is when we have the ball. I always have been, which is why we have often clashed on these threads.   ;D

When we don't have the ball he's more mobile. In days gone by he was a very good presser. Dirk could be relied on to run 20 or 30 yards to close down the goalkeeper for example. That's the sort of run that nobody can miss. It looks great. But too often it meant recuperating when we had the ball. 

I think that international criticism is more down to his sometimes erratic touch and control mate, not his lack of movement.

I do think you have a point mate that sometimes he has worked so hard when we haven't had the ball chasing defenders (not just a run to the keeper!) and pressing high that he has been recuperating when we have gained possession, but that was rare if you ask me, at least until the last year or so when his energy levels have started to dip as he approaches 31/32.

I do strongly believe however that you or anyone else disputing that he works hard is a road to nowhere.

Offline redtel

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #473 on: March 3, 2012, 11:09:50 am »
Sorry, but that's just more screaming.

What app do you have Yorky on your puter that tells you these posters are screaming.

Think you are denigrating their posts with this ploy. Are you losing the argument over dear old Dirk. Is this the desperate throw of the dice?

To say that Downing works harder seems a liitle out of line with what we all see. No stats as you say so better leave out these remarks.

Dirk is not our most skillfull player and does hold up play when turning etc, but he has balls bigger than those which chased Patrick McGoohan (Sabu Pundit TM) and sometimes it's a quality that we need. See last Sunday.
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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #474 on: March 3, 2012, 11:10:09 am »
Mate, its clear you have an agenda against Dirk, to claim he has poor movement and doesnt work as hard as Stewart Downing shows that, so why come into the thread if  you arent even going acknowledge Dirks positives ?

It's difficult arguing with you because for some reason you don't read - or simply can't understand - what I'm saying.

And, for the record, I just did "acknowledge Dirk's positives" (although it sailed right over your dunderhead).

As for pointing out hidden agendas. Forget about it. There are none. I'm very open. I don't rate Kuyt. But it doesn't mean I'm not also open to the rational arguments of those who do. There are many people on here who I disagree with but who are always worth listening to. You're not one.

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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #475 on: March 3, 2012, 11:11:17 am »
I think Geoff it would be remarkable if Kuyt had never moved off the ball to create an opportunity. So, sure, we can point to goals here and there where Kuyt's movement has helped matters. And I would agree with anyone who said that Dirk knew how to work the penalty area. In fact I've often said this is his best skill. (He's the ultimate bug-liner ;)) I'm thinking more of his general build-up play. Liverpool have often struggled to keep possession because of Kuyt's poor movement. Sometimes he just stands still and looks at the player on the ball. I don't know whether this is because he's knackered or simply doesn't know what to do. Johnson, presently, suffers most from this immobility. 

so you think someone who has excellent movement in the box has poor movement outside the box if i read this right, as for losing possession in the build up I would say every player we have does that being humans and not robots but maybe you look for this and see what you want see as far as Dirk is concerned that is human nature, you have an opinion and look for evidence of it so you can say see I told you.  Not a dig Yorky we all do that.
« Last Edit: March 3, 2012, 11:17:20 am by geoffstrong »
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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #476 on: March 3, 2012, 11:11:29 am »

 Are you losing the argument over dear old Dirk. Is this the desperate throw of the dice?


Don't know why but I laughed like hell at that line :lmao
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

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Offline JamesLS7

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #477 on: March 3, 2012, 11:13:13 am »
It's difficult arguing with you because for some reason you don't read - or simply can't understand - what I'm saying.



No I understand completely what you are saying, but you are trying to spin it as if I dont so you dont look like an absolute fool.

You, in no uncertain terms, argued that Dirk Kuyt does not work harder than Stewart Downing. An absolutely ridiculous claim.
When discussing Dirk Kuyt's work rate :

I don't think he works as hard as some people claim. No harder, for example, than Stewart Downing.

18 League Titles and 5 European Cups. Get counting.

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #478 on: March 3, 2012, 11:13:25 am »
To be fair, Dirk blasting the referee at times does sometimes piss me off. :P
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Dirk Kuyt
« Reply #479 on: March 3, 2012, 11:19:59 am »
No worries. :)

no problem this is like the apprentice (new boy) against the master critic (yorky) in a Dirk thread.  :lmao
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