Author Topic: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM  (Read 85800 times)

Offline scared_person

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1800 on: September 12, 2011, 11:49:37 am »
As others have said, we played very well. We threw the kitchen sink at Stoke and on another day it could have finished 4-1 to us.

I'm not at all disheartened as I know that if we do that in every away game we will win 9 times out of 10. If we do the same against a tactically naive Tottenham team we could murder them.

Offline Brentieke

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1801 on: September 12, 2011, 12:09:56 pm »
End of the day, we're not going to go unbeaten are we. And if we lose, thats how I want us to lose: all guns balzing, desperately trying to get a goal, refusing to lie back and die as we have the last 2 years, throwing everything at the opposition, making positive substitutions etc...

Been begging our last few managers to install a refusal to die attitude in our players and though Rafa managed it for a few months in 08/09, it was gone the last 2 years. Great to see it evident on Saturday.
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Offline danbylfc

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1802 on: September 12, 2011, 12:12:34 pm »
Best performance weve had at Stoke since theyve come up to the prem. Yes we didnt score, But every club has those days where it just doesnt go for them. If we play anything like that at Spurs i cant see why we cant come away with 3 points.
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Offline MiserableP15

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1803 on: September 12, 2011, 12:16:06 pm »
yes agreed to a point - it was a combination of factors that lost us the game.

but we seem to have had a succession of  defensive 'one-offs' that cost us games , for the best part of 2 and a half years  :butt

it is a problem that needs fixing  cos i want us to win some games 1-0 ffs! we need to have that in our locker

Chelsea away last season springs to mind. Arsenal away this season would have been a similar type game. I do believe we have it in our locker.

nah id rather see us play well and win any day of the week.Fact is though no point in playing well and losing is there? Id still rather take 3 points after playing shite than taking none and playing well.Fact is thats how Manchester United have won the league for years. They get scrappy 1-0 wins when theyve played awfully.Its 3 points they dont give a shit and neither do their fans who will only remember the times they played well and scored 3 or more in a game that particular season.Its a results business.Its nice to play well but no point paying well if your not getting results.

This is true. And Degs made a brilliant post about it a while back -how they do keep churning out those wins. If you gave me the option of winning the league dirty, or coming second playing beautiful football, I'd take the trophy every time. However, there's nothing to say that we won't win a trophy or two playing this   way. Playing this way also allows for greater flexibility, greater options, and greater longevity, so I'd rather see us building a plan on pass and move football, than catenaccio type solidity. That is not to say that Kenny isn't setting us up to be solid. As Breitner said, we've been the architects of our own downfall with the three goals we've conceded so far this season. That means our defensive solidity and shape is by and large sound, but then we expected it to be when Clarke came on board.



On the subject of Stoke, was it against Man Utd at home where Ratboy should have got sent off?
"So Bierhoff’s got a short time to press his claims, now that the other two strikers who started the match have both been taken off……Kuntz."

Offline Redstafarian

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1804 on: September 12, 2011, 12:21:13 pm »
Carroll needs to do more. Pretty pleased with everyone else. Suarez was trying to create something all on his own too many times. We need Carroll for 90 mins and creating his own mischief, then we will have no problem unlocking a hardest defence. Felt a bit sorry for Hendo, of all people you would think he'd caress it in given three goes, but, it was just one of those days.
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Offline whtwht

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1805 on: September 12, 2011, 12:34:17 pm »
End of the day, we're not going to go unbeaten are we. And if we lose, thats how I want us to lose: all guns balzing, desperately trying to get a goal, refusing to lie back and die as we have the last 2 years, throwing everything at the opposition, making positive substitutions etc...

Been begging our last few managers to install a refusal to die attitude in our players and though Rafa managed it for a few months in 08/09, it was gone the last 2 years. Great to see it evident on Saturday.

 I agree. I absolutely hate losing especially without a fight. Going down all out is at least the most positive way. Gives me hope that some team will be on the receiving end of a hiding from us very soon.


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Offline Number 7

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1806 on: September 12, 2011, 01:47:21 pm »
That 5 missed shots sequence in the 2nd half is just haunting me, and will continue to until 1.30 pm on Sunday when we next have a chance to put it right. Can't believe it didn't go in for us.

Can't fault the lack of effort, I thought we were superb.
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Offline AndyInVA

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1807 on: September 12, 2011, 01:49:34 pm »
That's a good point, I'm struggling to remember the last time we came from behind and won a game?

2005 in turkey

Offline MiserableP15

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1808 on: September 12, 2011, 01:51:46 pm »
2005 in turkey

Hmmmm.

You know what we're going to say to that dont'cha?
"So Bierhoff’s got a short time to press his claims, now that the other two strikers who started the match have both been taken off……Kuntz."

Offline BEAST

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1809 on: September 12, 2011, 02:01:11 pm »
it was pretty hilarious to see how the day before the match, after the clip of Pulis praising Kenny gets posted everyone comes in and posts "Really like Pulis.  Just a good football guy, he's done well for Stoke".

Then they beat us and everyone is like "Fuck Stoke Fuck Pulis he is a disgrace to football"

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Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1810 on: September 12, 2011, 03:09:58 pm »
just saw the match again , dear god , how bad was the pitch? the ball was visibly slowing down our players ha dthe 'wtf' look in their eyes.it was like trying to play football on a really ill maintained golf course. there was no chance of our passing game being successful on that surface so the *strategy* worked for Stoke. won't read too much into the defeat , we will rarely get to play on such crappy surfaces. we dominated possession and territory anyway. on another day it could have been 5-1 to us.

no wonder stoke are awful away from home.
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Offline superJari-37

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1811 on: September 12, 2011, 03:15:51 pm »
Walters is a Wallaseyan cheat, there's no way he intended to try and attack the goal or hold the play up when the ball came his way. He backed away from the ball and into Carragher, obstructing any chance Carragher had of making a fair challenge. Carragher pushed back to hold his ground - Walters suddenly buckles - nailed-on penalty? No way. Giving a penalty for a tussle like that in a league like this in an away fixture like that,with the big centre-forward giving as much as he's getting, is crazy.

The ref knew he'd made a mistake because he gave us all the small decisions for the rest of the game (the penalty shout at the end was not a penalty as handball has to be deliberate).

A really difficult game but not too disappointed as for league games i'm the kind of person who prefers to undeservedly lose rather than undeservedly win.

The fair result would've been a draw, 0 - 0 ideally, as our shoddiness in attack did not really merit a goal
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Offline Lenin.

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1812 on: September 12, 2011, 03:16:18 pm »
it was pretty hilarious to see how the day before the match, after the clip of Pulis praising Kenny gets posted everyone comes in and posts "Really like Pulis.  Just a good football guy, he's done well for Stoke".

Then they beat us and everyone is like "Fuck Stoke Fuck Pulis he is a disgrace to football"

bipolar
Are they the same people?
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Offline superJari-37

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1813 on: September 12, 2011, 03:18:34 pm »
just saw the match again , dear god , how bad was the pitch? the ball was visibly slowing down our players ha dthe 'wtf' look in their eyes.it was like trying to play football on a really ill maintained golf course. there was no chance of our passing game being successful on that surface so the *strategy* worked for Stoke. won't read too much into the defeat , we will rarely get to play on such crappy surfaces. we dominated possession and territory anyway. on another day it could have been 5-1 to us.

no wonder stoke are awful away from home.

heya dude i'm interested in watchin this one again to look at how we played etc, have you got a link where i can download the full game? thanks
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Offline slaphead

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1814 on: September 12, 2011, 03:22:13 pm »
Walters is a Wallaseyan cheat, there's no way he intended to try and attack the goal or hold the play up when the ball came his way. He backed away from the ball and into Carragher, obstructing any chance Carragher had of making a fair challenge. Carragher pushed back to hold his ground - Walters suddenly buckles - nailed-on penalty? No way. Giving a penalty for a tussle like that in a league like this in an away fixture like that,with the big centre-forward giving as much as he's getting, is crazy.

The ref knew he'd made a mistake because he gave us all the small decisions for the rest of the game (the penalty shout at the end was not a penalty as handball has to be deliberate).

A really difficult game but not too disappointed as for league games i'm the kind of person who prefers to undeservedly lose rather than undeservedly win.

The fair result would've been a draw, 0 - 0 ideally, as our shoddiness in attack did not really merit a goal

You put your arms round a striker in the box like Carra did and its a penalty.
I'm not losing any sleep over that game. We looked impressive, but we couldnt get the goal we needed. We'll play worse and win I'm sure
I wouldnt call Walters a cheat
Penalty in my book that one - not so in other peoples which is fair do's
We move on
Spurs away next and after the performance we put in on Saturday I'm quite confident of getting 3 points

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1815 on: September 12, 2011, 03:23:17 pm »
heya dude i'm interested in watchin this one again to look at how we played etc, have you got a link where i can download the full game? thanks

sorry fella i recorded it with my dvr. can convert and upload it but it will take a shit load of time.
Phuk yoo

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1816 on: September 12, 2011, 03:27:36 pm »
No point going over and over it, we just were not clinical enough.
We need to work on that and once we sort it we'll be laughing.
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Offline slaphead

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1817 on: September 12, 2011, 03:29:46 pm »
No point going over and over it, we just were not clinical enough.
We need to work on that and once we sort it we'll be laughing.

Yip
and as Kenny said in his press conference - we've done it before
There will be games where we just cant score
Its football.
No big deal

Offline superJari-37

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1818 on: September 12, 2011, 03:35:26 pm »
You put your arms round a striker in the box like Carra did and its a penalty.
I'm not losing any sleep over that game. We looked impressive, but we couldnt get the goal we needed. We'll play worse and win I'm sure
I wouldnt call Walters a cheat
Penalty in my book that one - not so in other peoples which is fair do's
We move on
Spurs away next and after the performance we put in on Saturday I'm quite confident of getting 3 points


Nah, he didn't play the ball (Walters)
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Offline shravan.satya

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1819 on: September 12, 2011, 03:37:32 pm »
Those who slated Stoke should be ashamed of themselves. The way they have grown and the commiment they show on the field since 2008/09 season is amazing to watch. I always think probably this is how great teams like Liverpool, United came from second and lower divisions and established themselves as top league teams over the decades. They are not taking short cuts to success like Chelsea and City. Always had respect for Pulis and his team. Great fans too.
YNWA

Offline slaphead

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1820 on: September 12, 2011, 03:45:31 pm »
Those who slated Stoke should be ashamed of themselves. The way they have grown and the commiment they show on the field since 2008/09 season is amazing to watch. I always think probably this is how great teams like Liverpool, United came from second and lower divisions and established themselves as top league teams over the decades. They are not taking short cuts to success like Chelsea and City. Always had respect for Pulis and his team. Great fans too.

Yip - anyone who throws the toys out of the pram because Stoke dont play nice 1 touch football are football snobs. Stoke are getting better and better each season playing the game the way they want and not giving a toss who it offends
Fair play to them and good luck to them

Offline superJari-37

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1821 on: September 12, 2011, 03:47:25 pm »
Those who slated Stoke should be ashamed of themselves. The way they have grown and the commiment they show on the field since 2008/09 season is amazing to watch. I always think probably this is how great teams like Liverpool, United came from second and lower divisions and established themselves as top league teams over the decades. They are not taking short cuts to success like Chelsea and City. Always had respect for Pulis and his team. Great fans too.

Absolutely agree. To establish yourself at a higher level you have to recognise your limitations, identify them and find ways to work around them. Look at how Houllier managed to get us past the likes of Barcelona/AS Roma/Galatasaray to establish us in Europe. We got a lot of stick from other teams and the media for the way we played (Barca hated us parking the bus at the Camp Nou). I'm not the biggest Houllier fan but there's no denying he did the right thing in setting us up to play cautiously in such games. It got us wins in Europe against top oppsotion and vital experience
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Offline Classic goal

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1822 on: September 12, 2011, 03:49:25 pm »
It's pathetic and sanctimonious moaning about how Stoke play football. So what if they aren't playing beautiful free flowing football? We all know full well what they are about, it's upto to us to beat them. We missed a load of chances in that game, that's our fault not theirs. They offer something to this league, if it's not pretty then sound the only time you have to watch them is the two times we play them. Teams have no obligation to anyone other than their own supporters.


Offline shravan.satya

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1823 on: September 12, 2011, 03:50:12 pm »
And we should get Shawcross :D
YNWA

Offline "21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1824 on: September 12, 2011, 03:52:52 pm »
It's pathetic and sanctimonious moaning about how Stoke play football. So what if they aren't playing beautiful free flowing football? We all know full well what they are about, it's upto to us to beat them. We missed a load of chances in that game, that's our fault not theirs. They offer something to this league, if it's not pretty then sound the only time you have to watch them is the two times we play them. Teams have no obligation to anyone other than their own supporters.

i had absolutely no complains when blackpool beat us twice last season. they did not need to resort to underhanded tactics liking an overgrown narrow pitch and conning the ref. the likes of stoke staying in the league is setting a bad example to the teams who want to do it the 'right way'. not saying i blame them but doesn't mean i should like them.
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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1825 on: September 12, 2011, 03:58:52 pm »
the likes of stoke staying in the league is setting a bad example to the teams who want to do it the 'right way'. not saying i blame them but doesn't mean i should like them.

The likes of Stoke staying in this league is setting a good example to show teams what can be achieved by playing to your strengths and not giving a rats ass if they are liked or not.
An awful of Liverpool fans seem to be bad losers ;)

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1826 on: September 12, 2011, 04:05:06 pm »
The likes of Stoke staying in this league is setting a good example to show teams what can be achieved by playing to your strengths and not giving a rats ass if they are liked or not.
An awful of Liverpool fans seem to be bad losers ;)

+1

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1827 on: September 12, 2011, 04:08:34 pm »
The likes of Stoke staying in this league is setting a good example to show teams what can be achieved by playing to your strengths and not giving a rats ass if they are liked or not.
An awful of Liverpool fans seem to be bad losers ;)

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1828 on: September 12, 2011, 04:28:54 pm »
Kenny Dalglish Is Ruining Liverpool (Sorry If this has already been posted, but sums it up perfectly imo!   :)  )

Maybe it’s the incredible start made by the Manchester clubs, or maybe it’s just that there are a lot of idiots out there. But I cannot abide the doom and gloom that follows one bad result, particularly when it was not a bad performance.

It’s not just the knee-jerk fans on Twitter, whose reaction to anything less than 114 points a season is rapid implosion; two respected broadsheet newspapers ran execrable pieces on the Stoke game.

Russell Kempson, writing in the Independent, sets the scene by paraphrasing Liverpool fans:

    “Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool legend. He rescued us from Roy Hodgson and will return us to the promised land of a top-four finish in the League and a natural resumption of Champions League hostilities in 2011-12. Our rightful place, where we belong.”

Having set Dalglish up to be a man who can do no wrong in the eyes of Kopites, he then says:

    “But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry. The defeat against Stoke City here on Saturday was Liverpool’s eighth loss in 28 matches since Dalglish sifted through the Hodgson debris and embarked on his emergency salvage operation.”

Eight defeats? Sounds bad. Sounds terrible. Sack him! What’s next, Russell?

    “Perhaps 14 wins and six draws are the better stats to view…”

Incredible – just truly incredible. Why would you focus first on the negative, taking it out of context of the overall picture, which is not negative when view as a whole? Surely the wins, draws and defeats are all part of one single reality?

Up to a certain point, the amount of games lost has no bearing on league success; the table works on points won. You could lose 8 games and win 30, and you’d win the title. (Liverpool lost only 2 games in 2008/09, fewer than the champions, but that didn’t stop Rafa getting criticised; Liverpool were excellent that season, but sadly for us, United were slightly better.)

Kempson sets the scene with talk of the top four. His entire argument, set out by that paragraph, relates to qualifying for the Champions League. So why isn’t he focusing on league form? Why is he including the Europa League, which was of little consequence last season, and cup games, which included a visit to Old Trafford as soon as the manager had stepped into the breach? You don’t qualify for the Champions League by winning cups.

Liverpool, who currently sit 5th (miles away from the top four, clearly, although my maths can’t calculate the distance), have won 40 points in 22 games since Dalglish returned.

Over 38 games, that would equate to 69 points. And in the history of the Premier League since four spots were available, 69 points has meant certain Champions League qualification.

Let’s go back, and remind ourselves of what Kempson said:

    “But the facts – as yet – do not back up the blinkered idolatry.”

… Except they do, if the blinkered idolatry referred to was outlined in the opening gambit. I mean, if you’re going to use facts, at least get the bloody things right.

But there’s more. This is 69 points (pro rata) achieved without Steven Gerrard for all but a couple of games.

It is 69 points (pro rata) achieved with an injury crisis at the end of last season, and a squad that included a mix of the sublime, the good and bad signed by Rafa, and the raft of duds signed by Hodgson, none of whom feature anymore. It included a month with no fit strikers, as Fernando Torres slung his hook.

It also ignores the fact that Liverpool absolutely smothered Stoke, with the vast majority of the possession, territory, shots (11 on target to one for Stoke – the penalty) and corners, but a case when finishing, rather than tactics, let the club down. Had the incredible Luis Suarez not missed a good chance at the death – in keeping with when Steven Gerrard hit the post at 0-0 on the same ground with the last kick of the game following ‘Rafa’s rant’ – then there’d be no story here. Instead, there’s a storm.

Whether or not Dalglish repays the fans’ faith and idolatry is yet to be decided. But so far, all the evidence – which Kempson refers to, but fails to correctly analyse – actually disproves the author’s own thesis. (Or, should that be, half-arsed idea scratched on the back of a fag packet?)

Dalglish took over when the Reds were 12th. He took them up to 6th, and now has the team sitting 5th. Obviously this is the clear pattern of a man who doesn’t know what he’s doing – who is ruining our club while we blindly sing his praises.

But it gets worse. Writing in the Guardian, Sachin Nakrani said:

    “…That may come as a relief to the 60-year-old [Dalglish] but for his admirers there may remain concern over his loss of temper, the sense, even, that for the second time in two decades the task of managing Liverpool is proving too great a responsibility for the club’s greatest player.”

Wow. I mean, seriously. Wow. Manager loses temper after defeat and shows frustration with officials. It can only mean one thing: he’s having a nervous breakdown and cannot handle the pressure.

In which case, roughly half of the Premier League’s managers have a nervous breakdown every weekend, and come May, each and every one of them therefore needs be sectioned for his (and society’s) safety.

To bring up Dalglish’s post-Hillsborough stress is despicable. In the aftermath of the tragedy his management was affected, because he was still living amidst the consequences and was physically ill from the stress of having to deal with the deaths of almost 100 Liverpool fans. But 22 years have passed. If anything, the experience should now make him stronger and wiser. To any sane observer, that seems to be the case.

When things aren’t going his way, Alex Ferguson rants and raves at journalists, swearing at them, and when he’s upset with his players he throws boots in their faces, but he’s just a winner, showing his winning mentality; not ‘losing the plot’ in the way that others are when they show a bit of emotion. Dalglish moans that, for the 4th game running the Reds have been denied either a penalty or an opposition red card, and he’s having some kind of mental collapse that suggests he can’t handle the job. Whether or not he is right about the refereeing decisions, he’s just doing what managers do.

So, dear readers, I apologise for my optimism under Dalglish, which has seen me claim that the Reds can reach the top four under his guidance, after the nightmare of being a bottom-half team last season before his arrival.

Clearly, having read this morning’s newspapers, he’s ruining Liverpool, and needs to be sacked forthwith. I hear that Roy Hodgson won a game this weekend; presumably he’s now the man for the job?


http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/09/kenny-dalglish-is-ruining-liverpool/
Bill Shankly: " A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are. "

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Offline cammier

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1829 on: September 12, 2011, 05:41:15 pm »
I hate to have a go at Kenny but I wish he had not made those comments about refs, he stoops to Ferguson's level in doing so. We lost end of.... Yes there were some poor decisions but I think the penalty was correct, I don't recall any bitching about our soft penalty in stoppage time at Arsenal last year. In addition, Skrtl (amongst others) is lucky not to have penalties awarded against him, the number of time I see him with his arms arond a player in the box! We could have and should have put that game to bed in the first half with the chances but give Stoke credit, they kept us out and that is what matters in the end. There will be games like this against other so-called inferior teams, Kenny has to get his strikers firing on all cylinders and find if Carroll really is the player many thought him to be because as fafr as I am concerned the jury is still out. I thnik Bellamy will make us tick this season.

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Re: Stoke 1 - 0 Liverpool (Walters) Sept 10th KO 3PM
« Reply #1830 on: September 12, 2011, 05:58:14 pm »
Kenny Dalglish Is Ruining Liverpool (Sorry If this has already been posted, but sums it up perfectly imo!   :)  )

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/09/kenny-dalglish-is-ruining-liverpool/

Tommo's article is splendid.
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
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