Author Topic: England win 2017 FIFA World Cup U20  (Read 44461 times)

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #240 on: June 29, 2013, 08:16:19 pm »
Juan's right. Being second best to the likes of spain, Italy etc is just something you have to take on the chin and strive to reach there level but were not even accomplished enough to dominate teams like Israel or Egypt.

Its not actually funny because dickheads like peter Taylor still have something about themselves in the FA's eyes to make them think he is doing a reasonable job. Took four tournies for Pearce to get the fucking boot, you know how much damage is done during that time, we've made no progress, never mind from a results based view but just building towards something, improvements, we've made zero and we'll keep making zero progress as well because there's no plan at coaching level. If there is then were in deep fucking trouble because Hodgson, Taylor and Pearce are three of the worse individuals you could choose to lead the next generation of English national football. Can't wait to see who replaces Pearce actually, another prick who's proud to be english, bang average but "passionate" (look angry = true English passion)

Offline kopitecrash

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #241 on: June 29, 2013, 08:35:09 pm »
Bottom it is. Sigh...
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #242 on: June 29, 2013, 08:35:37 pm »
Hahaha fucking hell. Great goal mind.
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Offline Elzar

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #243 on: June 29, 2013, 08:38:11 pm »
Anybody know why Ngoo or Ibe aren't in this England team?
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Offline Popcorn

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #244 on: June 29, 2013, 08:39:15 pm »
Coady playing?

Nevermind, seen him there.

Offline Popcorn

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #245 on: June 29, 2013, 08:40:43 pm »
Oh no, unbelievable miss.

Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #246 on: June 29, 2013, 08:40:48 pm »
 :duh
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Offline kopitecrash

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #247 on: June 29, 2013, 08:40:49 pm »
Oh man. Had to score.
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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #248 on: June 29, 2013, 08:40:53 pm »
Kane :lmao :lmao
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Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #249 on: June 29, 2013, 08:41:06 pm »
Harry Kane is utter utter shite
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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #250 on: June 29, 2013, 08:41:47 pm »
This is the worst U20 Egyptian team ever, how are England aren't 4-0 up is beyond me.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #251 on: June 29, 2013, 08:42:14 pm »
Anybody know why Ngoo or Ibe aren't in this England team?

Imagine the thought of having an attacking winger in the squad!!! Zomg

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #252 on: June 29, 2013, 08:49:45 pm »
How the fuck are we 2-0 up?
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #253 on: June 29, 2013, 08:49:45 pm »
Bit embarrassing for England this.
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Offline kopitecrash

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #254 on: June 29, 2013, 08:49:46 pm »
Yup, why play an actual winger. That's madness.
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Offline Popcorn

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #255 on: June 29, 2013, 08:50:00 pm »
That's a great finish

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #256 on: June 29, 2013, 08:50:58 pm »
How the fuck are we 2-0 up?

Because your players are good individually, even if they are tactically a bit disorganised.
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Offline Outer Mongolian Red

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #257 on: June 29, 2013, 08:52:39 pm »
Did Eygpt think they the 2nd goal put them through?

Offline Xxavi

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #258 on: June 29, 2013, 08:54:49 pm »
Did Eygpt think they the 2nd goal put them through?
It's unclear, but apparently some 3rd placed teams go through.

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #259 on: June 29, 2013, 08:55:16 pm »
Did Eygpt think they the 2nd goal put them through?
Nope, their players think that this win is the big Fuck You to the press who has been mauling the team and rightly so for their poor performances.

Bunch of spoiled c*nts.
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Offline Ghostface

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #260 on: June 29, 2013, 08:55:17 pm »
This has been a VERY revealing year about youth football in England. We're fucking shit.  :wave

Iraq have beaten Chile 2-1, they're playing for their people and country so its no surprise really, they win the group.

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #261 on: June 29, 2013, 08:55:36 pm »
It's unclear, but apparently some 3rd placed teams go through.
Egypt need to win 3-0 or 4-2 to qualify.
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Offline Juan Loco

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #262 on: June 29, 2013, 08:56:25 pm »
There is a problem with coaching, but I don't think a good coach, even the best one, will fix all of England's problems. Ericsson wasn't bad when he came, was he? But he didn't make England a particularly superb team. The same with Capello, one of the best coaches around, he came, and England looked more solid. But it wasn't as if they looked like world beaters.

The problem is a combination of coaching and footballing abilities. English players are used to playing high tempo football without stops. International football is not like that, the games aren't 100 mph like in England. The games have lots of stoppages, it's slower because the opponents keep the ball when they have it. So when England get it, they should also keep it, and not rush with it, which they usually do. There needs to be 1-2 playmakers, who do that, if other players are incapable of doing that. England's game looks patchy, players look a bunch of individuals and not a team, the game is very patchy. There's no pattern to the play. I don't think this is due to lack of passion.

The thing with Capello and Eriksen is that they actually got to the glass ceiling. They hit the level which exposed some of the things you mentioned. Ultimately Capello and Eriksen lost their big games to Brazil, Portugal and Germany. Brazil and Germany are better than England and have better set ups than England, and that's where you can call the lack of high quality coaches into question and youth develop throughout the clubs, the players technique and so on. Against two of the best 5 nations in the World they came up short. Given how much money the English FA spend that isn't actually good enough, but for the players England had that's about right. They were equal to Portugal (probably the better team in 2006) but are terrible at penalties (another English flaw). That's about right with the players England have, isn't it? The England are overrated backlash came from the press trying to push the fact that England were better than those German and Brazilian teams, and they simply weren't.

The problem now though isn't that England lose to Brazil or Germany, or on penalties to Portugal. Now England's youth teams gets passed around by Norway and Israel, and Egypt and Iraq. England's senior team gets dominated by Poland and Montenegro. This is where the technique argument falls down for me. Most of these English youngsters have good technique. I don't mean they'll be world beaters and will go on to have 500 top flight appearances. I mean the likes of Coady, Thorpe, Dier, Pritchard and Kane would've been released long before now if they couldn't control a ball and pass it. They're being coached at club level by better coaches than these Chilean and Iraqi players. Same thing at senior level. The vast majority of English players are playing at a higher standard than the Ukrainian's who came to Wembley and outplayed them. And it's not like at club level most of these players don't play for teams that try and play possession football. As good as Barcelona? No. But they keep the ball and pass out from the back.

It's the England coaches. Every England coach from Noel Blake (U19s) up is about shape and play out of possession. Everyone pays lip service to the idea of playing the ball out from the back, but the reality is that most of the time that's no more than them saying "pass it out from the back", you never see any real pattern of play to it. It's just passing for the sake or it, until they pass themselves into trouble and then it goes down the line anyways, just as it would've done in the first place.


Just on the playmakers bit Xxavi - I would agree in general. I think it's what England of the last generation have lacked (I think had it still been Hoddle, Cole would've ended up playing there). The next generation of English midfielders are all in that style though. I'm not saying they'll all be brilliant, but players like Wilshere, McEacheran, Tom Carroll, Pritchard, Ward-Prowse have more in common with Spanish midfielders than the Lampard's of this world. Coady is moving away from that at a pace (especially under Inglethorpe) and someone like Loftus-Cheek at Chelsea, whilst huge for his age, is way closer to a continental footballer than the archetype English midfielder of the last ten years. It's early days so far but I'd say the academy system is actually working in terms of producing more technically rounded footballers - we'll see how that plays out at club level over the next five years or so.

The problem is that at international level it'll still be filled with coaches who don't want embrace the fact that the English footballer is far more progressive and positive than they are.
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Offline graaf_x

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #263 on: June 29, 2013, 08:58:55 pm »
Tony Barrett @TonyBarretTimes 3m

@TonyBarretTimes: Just watched England u-20s lose 2-0 to Egypt. No wins in the tournament since 1997. Grim.

Wow.

Offline kopitecrash

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #264 on: June 29, 2013, 08:59:57 pm »
Well I await the next recruitments for the u21s and u20s with interest.
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Offline Ghostface

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #265 on: June 29, 2013, 09:00:35 pm »
Tony Barrett @TonyBarretTimes 3m

@TonyBarretTimes: Just watched England u-20s lose 2-0 to Egypt. No wins in the tournament since 1997. Grim.

Wow.

Didn't realise we were that bad at U20 level, fuck.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #266 on: June 29, 2013, 09:00:54 pm »
Tony Barrett @TonyBarretTimes 3m

@TonyBarretTimes: Just watched England u-20s lose 2-0 to Egypt. No wins in the tournament since 1997. Grim.

Wow.

Michael Owen was the last English player to score a winning goal for England in this tournament.
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Offline Sir Psycho Sexy

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #267 on: June 29, 2013, 09:03:39 pm »
Of course, these are the players that media will hype for the World Cup and Euros with shite like, "could this be our year?!", when its blindingly obvious that it won't be. If they can't get past the quarters with players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Cole, Ferdinand, Terry etc then these lot have no chance unless things are changed
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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #268 on: June 29, 2013, 09:05:24 pm »
No matter how poor English players were, they should have beaten Egypt tonight. The Egyptian team is filled with problems starting from players not agreeing with management, or a manager who has no guts to take responsibility or the fact that there was no football in the country since 2012 (the league is more like a friendly tournament at the moment).

I'm astonished at how England managed to lose, alarming bells for the future of English football.
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Offline redy

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #269 on: June 29, 2013, 09:17:36 pm »
The thing with Capello and Eriksen is that they actually got to the glass ceiling. They hit the level which exposed some of the things you mentioned. Ultimately Capello and Eriksen lost their big games to Brazil, Portugal and Germany. Brazil and Germany are better than England and have better set ups than England, and that's where you can call the lack of high quality coaches into question and youth develop throughout the clubs, the players technique and so on. Against two of the best 5 nations in the World they came up short. Given how much money the English FA spend that isn't actually good enough, but for the players England had that's about right. They were equal to Portugal (probably the better team in 2006) but are terrible at penalties (another English flaw). That's about right with the players England have, isn't it? The England are overrated backlash came from the press trying to push the fact that England were better than those German and Brazilian teams, and they simply weren't.

The problem now though isn't that England lose to Brazil or Germany, or on penalties to Portugal. Now England's youth teams gets passed around by Norway and Israel, and Egypt and Iraq. England's senior team gets dominated by Poland and Montenegro. This is where the technique argument falls down for me. Most of these English youngsters have good technique. I don't mean they'll be world beaters and will go on to have 500 top flight appearances. I mean the likes of Coady, Thorpe, Dier, Pritchard and Kane would've been released long before now if they couldn't control a ball and pass it. They're being coached at club level by better coaches than these Chilean and Iraqi players. Same thing at senior level. The vast majority of English players are playing at a higher standard than the Ukrainian's who came to Wembley and outplayed them. And it's not like at club level most of these players don't play for teams that try and play possession football. As good as Barcelona? No. But they keep the ball and pass out from the back.

It's the England coaches. Every England coach from Noel Blake (U19s) up is about shape and play out of possession. Everyone pays lip service to the idea of playing the ball out from the back, but the reality is that most of the time that's no more than them saying "pass it out from the back", you never see any real pattern of play to it. It's just passing for the sake or it, until they pass themselves into trouble and then it goes down the line anyways, just as it would've done in the first place.


Just on the playmakers bit Xxavi - I would agree in general. I think it's what England of the last generation have lacked (I think had it still been Hoddle, Cole would've ended up playing there). The next generation of English midfielders are all in that style though. I'm not saying they'll all be brilliant, but players like Wilshere, McEacheran, Tom Carroll, Pritchard, Ward-Prowse have more in common with Spanish midfielders than the Lampard's of this world. Coady is moving away from that at a pace (especially under Inglethorpe) and someone like Loftus-Cheek at Chelsea, whilst huge for his age, is way closer to a continental footballer than the archetype English midfielder of the last ten years. It's early days so far but I'd say the academy system is actually working in terms of producing more technically rounded footballers - we'll see how that plays out at club level over the next five years or so.

The problem is that at international level it'll still be filled with coaches who don't want embrace the fact that the English footballer is far more progressive and positive than they are.

I agree. To sum up my 2 cents I see 2 problems:

1. Firstly obviously the England national team isn't good enough to beat Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany etc nor are they good enough to win the Euros/World Cup. My point is that's the best level England can be at. This is limited by the grassroots lack of coaching/ style of English play of blood and thunder producing players who are not comfortable in keeping the ball against pressure and consequently employ a defensive approach to the game which is physically not going to cut it.

2. Secondly currently the England national team/and other Under-21/20 teams are not even playing to the above mentioned level of being among the 2nd tier teams. Thats down to the current managers/coaches who are obviously massively failing to achieve the potential of the teams (which was limited to being 2nd best at best anyway)

Offline Ghostface

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #270 on: June 29, 2013, 09:17:52 pm »
Nobody is entitled to beat anybody so 'should of beaten' I don't really buy at all, countries progress, and I think you'll be hearing a lot of asian/african teams coming through soon.

Offline redy

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #271 on: June 29, 2013, 09:22:18 pm »
The problem with England is the hype that gets thrown onto the lads shoulders from a young age.

Look at any other media outlet in the world when talking about their national team and I can guarantee that none more so than the English media will bleet on about how pulling on the shirt brings an almighty responsibility, how when a mistake is made, it gets crucified for fucking years, nevermind months in the papers everytime there's an international game coming up.

The passion or the coaching isn't the problem, it's the expectation and hype that goes with playing for the national team, it sets everyone up for an almighty fall when things inevitably go tits up and just puts un-needed pressure onto the shoulders of the younger lads who should be concentrating on the football than what the papers might say if they fuck up.

But is the pressure any less for the brazilian youngsters who are forever hailed as the next pele, next ronaldinho etc or argie youngster who is the next Maradona/next Messi. I think all the major nations' media are hyper critical of their teams because of the expectations. Now if you are going to say the English media expects them to win tournaments when their level is nowhere that, I can agree. But that is no reason for them to not even progress beyond first round.

In any case the actual problem is that England do not have/ have had a team with the potential to be at the level of Italy/Germany etc.

Offline Juan Loco

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #272 on: June 29, 2013, 09:24:37 pm »
I agree. To sum up my 2 cents I see 2 problems:

1. Firstly obviously the England national team isn't good enough to beat Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany etc nor are they good enough to win the Euros/World Cup. My point is that's the best level England can be at. This is limited by the grassroots lack of coaching/ style of English play of blood and thunder producing players who are not comfortable in keeping the ball against pressure and consequently employ a defensive approach to the game which is physically not going to cut it.

2. Secondly currently the England national team/and other Under-21/20 teams are not even playing to the above mentioned level of being among the 2nd tier teams. Thats down to the current managers/coaches who are obviously massively failing to achieve the potential of the teams (which was limited to being 2nd best at best anyway)

Yeah, that's the perfect way of summing it up for me.

As you say, England aren't good enough to win these tournaments. They should be - in theory - given how much money the FA put in to things. That needs to be addressed. That's where you need the extra coaches, the better relationship between the Premier League and the FA (arsed). The fact that it's very difficult for the top English youngsters (that aren't immediate superstars) to get football between the age of 18-21 - something that may only be addressed by B teams, which is a conversation the FA are terrified of having because they're wed to traditional (and probably because those B teams will be replacing clubs whose fans are the only ones particularly arsed with England).

Not being able to dominate the ball and play modern football against the likes of Iraq and Norway though. That's just coaches the FA hire. The vast majority of these players play possession football at their academies. Dier wouldn't be in Sporting's first team if he spent his time knocking it long. Coady wouldn't be on the edge of ours if he couldn't control the ball. Thorpe and Cole wouldn't have spent so long at United if they were technically awful. We're not talking about players who could go on and beat the Spanish national team in a senior World Cup here. We're talking about players who at club level will have shown they're good enough to be at top clubs who play modern, possession football.

Why the fuck they're being stuck with coaches who don't want to do that is beyond me.
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #273 on: June 29, 2013, 09:28:22 pm »
The thing with Capello and Eriksen is that they actually got to the glass ceiling. They hit the level which exposed some of the things you mentioned. Ultimately Capello and Eriksen lost their big games to Brazil, Portugal and Germany. Brazil and Germany are better than England and have better set ups than England, and that's where you can call the lack of high quality coaches into question and youth develop throughout the clubs, the players technique and so on. Against two of the best 5 nations in the World they came up short. Given how much money the English FA spend that isn't actually good enough, but for the players England had that's about right. They were equal to Portugal (probably the better team in 2006) but are terrible at penalties (another English flaw). That's about right with the players England have, isn't it? The England are overrated backlash came from the press trying to push the fact that England were better than those German and Brazilian teams, and they simply weren't.

The problem now though isn't that England lose to Brazil or Germany, or on penalties to Portugal. Now England's youth teams gets passed around by Norway and Israel, and Egypt and Iraq. England's senior team gets dominated by Poland and Montenegro. This is where the technique argument falls down for me. Most of these English youngsters have good technique. I don't mean they'll be world beaters and will go on to have 500 top flight appearances. I mean the likes of Coady, Thorpe, Dier, Pritchard and Kane would've been released long before now if they couldn't control a ball and pass it. They're being coached at club level by better coaches than these Chilean and Iraqi players. Same thing at senior level. The vast majority of English players are playing at a higher standard than the Ukrainian's who came to Wembley and outplayed them. And it's not like at club level most of these players don't play for teams that try and play possession football. As good as Barcelona? No. But they keep the ball and pass out from the back.

It's the England coaches. Every England coach from Noel Blake (U19s) up is about shape and play out of possession. Everyone pays lip service to the idea of playing the ball out from the back, but the reality is that most of the time that's no more than them saying "pass it out from the back", you never see any real pattern of play to it. It's just passing for the sake or it, until they pass themselves into trouble and then it goes down the line anyways, just as it would've done in the first place.


Just on the playmakers bit Xxavi - I would agree in general. I think it's what England of the last generation have lacked (I think had it still been Hoddle, Cole would've ended up playing there). The next generation of English midfielders are all in that style though. I'm not saying they'll all be brilliant, but players like Wilshere, McEacheran, Tom Carroll, Pritchard, Ward-Prowse have more in common with Spanish midfielders than the Lampard's of this world. Coady is moving away from that at a pace (especially under Inglethorpe) and someone like Loftus-Cheek at Chelsea, whilst huge for his age, is way closer to a continental footballer than the archetype English midfielder of the last ten years. It's early days so far but I'd say the academy system is actually working in terms of producing more technically rounded footballers - we'll see how that plays out at club level over the next five years or so.

The problem is that at international level it'll still be filled with coaches who don't want embrace the fact that the English footballer is far more progressive and positive than they are.

That's a cracking post Juan. Should be in every OP related to the National team.

Offline Max_powers

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #274 on: June 29, 2013, 09:29:05 pm »

Offline jaffod

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #275 on: June 29, 2013, 09:33:52 pm »
Bet they can't wait to get home and back behind the wheel of their Jag's and Beamers...

Offline Serano

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #276 on: June 29, 2013, 09:41:38 pm »
I think it's a concern that the 'top prospects' are for the most part unlikely to have a significant role at any of the top clubs any time soon. Wilshire aside.

Which English prospects are on the cusp of nailing down a regular spot?

Chelsea - McEachran was much talked up, but I can't see Chelsea making room for him. Chalobah will likely go on loan again.
City - Erm?
Utd - Smalling/Jones perhaps. Not both.
Pool - Henderson?
Spurs - Caulker perhaps. Caroll unlikely with all the midfielders they have
Arsenal - Wilshire. Walcott if he can still be considered a prospect.

Even at academy/youth level the foreign intake at each of these clubs is increasing.

Offline Xxavi

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2013, 09:56:23 pm »
JuanLoco

Whilst I agree that Capello was one of the better manager's/coaches England had, the time seems to have healed some of the criticism directed to him.
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/teammgr/Mgr_Capello.html

You are right, England lost to Germany, and no shame, may be. Given the scoreline, one could criticize him, but whatever, lost to a better team. But come on, don't you remember England's games vs Algerie, USA, and Slovenia? England were solid, more so than usual, but they were still awful, if we are being honest. Algeria completely outplayed, people laughed at the draw with USA, and the win vs Slovenia was... well, not convincing.

It was a solid team, but never convincing. Drew with Swiss at home, away to Montenegro. I am not gonna pretend I remember these games. But I do remember world cup games, and England were not good even before they met Germany.

I guess the point I am trying to make is, I don't think coaching is the sole problem here. England could appoint anybody at the senior level, and they will improve a lot, but to me, there are other issues.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 10:03:06 pm by Xxavi »

Offline Virna

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2013, 10:18:59 pm »
Round of 16


Spain - Mexico

Greece - Uzbekistan   

Nigeria - Uruguay   

France - Turkey   

Portugal - Ghana   

Croatia - Chile   

Colombia - Korea Republic   

Iraq - Paraguay

Offline kopitecrash

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Re: 2013 FIFA World Cup U20
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2013, 10:34:21 pm »
Respected guy on Reddit had this to say:

Quote
Please, just stop this.

We don't need a shake up, we've already had a shakeup.

Changes in football infrastructure such a what the FA has done over the past decade take time to produce. What we're currently watching is the effects of the Sven/McClaren/Capello "golden generation".

You can't birth a footballer out of a clone machine, they take 10 or so years to grow into. We're looking at old failures which the FA has, to their credit, worked really fucking hard to address. We'll see the benefits in years to come with better coaching education, better academies and a more relaxed system of getting the bets players into the best academies as early as possible.

This reactionary attitude is THE EXACT THING that has fecked us up for so long. Just relax and let the reformers do their job. Nick Levett has done some properly impressive work, just as important as any England manager and his changes will be seen long after you've forgotten this comment and are celebrating.
You could open a door with him, he's such a knob.