Topic: North Korea

[Tomo!]

Personally think as soon as they shrink a warhead to fit America will strike first.

They've not got the mutual destruction capabilities of countries like the USA, Russia and the UK.

If America thinks there's a realistic chance of them launching a nuclear attack on US citizens they'll flatten them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/russia-warns-north-korea-nuclear-strike

[quinny]

Personally think as soon as they shrink a warhead to fit America will strike first.

They've not got the mutual destruction capabilities of countries like the USA, Russia and the UK.

If America thinks there's a realistic chance of them launching a nuclear attack on US citizens they'll flatten them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/08/russia-warns-north-korea-nuclear-strike

If Trump gets in he'll probably do it on 9th November.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It is really the craziest country in the world. They've read 1984 and decided it is a manual by which to govern a nation, and this is the result. A delusional hamburger with a quiff and a mental age of 3 playing with things that include nuclear weapons and anti-aircraft guns.

Think this is the kind of thinking which has allowed it to get to this state, to be honest. The real madness is how long they've been appeased for. Yes, they've had economic sanctions but it clearly hasn't deterred them; if anything it has simply accelerated their determination for nuclear warfare development, with millions of North Koreans paying the price.

[Jonny-B]

Think this is the kind of thinking which has allowed it to get to this state, to be honest. The real madness is how long they've been appeased for. Yes, they've had economic sanctions but it clearly hasn't deterred them; if anything it has simply accelerated their determination for nuclear warfare development, with millions of North Koreans paying the price.

The trouble is no one wants them. South Korea or China doesn't want 25 million people added to their budget over night. And China especially doesn't want a United Korean border (and thus an American base) on their border.

[Red Beret]

Kim Jong-nam, half brother to NK leader Kim Jong-un has been "killed" in Malaysia.  Some outlets reporting it as an assassination.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/kim-jong-un-half-brother-reportedly-killed-malaysia-north-korea

South Korean media reports claimed Kim was poisoned by two female North Korean operatives in at Kuala Lumpur international airport on Monday. The South Korean cable broadcaster TV Chosun said the elder Kim, who has reportedly never met North Korea’s current leader, was attacked by the two unidentified women with “poisoned needles”. The Guardian has not been able to verify the reports.

[The Bournemouth Red]

Kim Jong-nam, half brother to NK leader Kim Jong-un has been "killed" in Malaysia.  Some outlets reporting it as an assassination.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/14/kim-jong-un-half-brother-reportedly-killed-malaysia-north-korea

South Korean media reports claimed Kim was poisoned by two female North Korean operatives in at Kuala Lumpur international airport on Monday. The South Korean cable broadcaster TV Chosun said the elder Kim, who has reportedly never met North Korea’s current leader, was attacked by the two unidentified women with “poisoned needles”. The Guardian has not been able to verify the reports.

I've just been reading about this on the BBC website, Kim Jong-un is a scary, scary man-child.

What's that so far, uncles, brother-in-law, hopefully he falls out with Trump or Putin...

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Well i've got access to local reports / sources, they have.confirmed it's him and the CcTv footage showed a woman approaching him from the back and holding a (reportedly poison laced) cloth over his face. The victim then went to the help desk, eyes watering, died on the way to the hospital.  8am.incident, he was waiting for 9 am flight to Macau.

Edit: Donald trump take note big boy, he acts like he's got no clue how straightforward it all is for competent professionals in 2017, especially if they are not arsed about getting caught later. The wise thing for anyone related to him or his racket is to distance themselves.

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39010244

A proxy assassination perhaps? has that ever been done before?

[Trada]

The world is turning into a warped reality show.

Who knows what the truth is any more

But thats what the "man" wants.

[Alan_X]

The world is turning into a warped reality show.

Who knows what the truth is any more

But thats what the "man" wants.

What on earth does that even mean? Especially in this context. You think 'the man' controls everything and North Korea is part of it?

The world is a complicated place and always has been. There is no 'the man' in control of everything.

There are rich and powerful people who seek control but this event shows the reality, which is that they are more often fighting amongst themselves. The world would actually be a far safer place if there really was some shadowy world government in charge rather than the constant jockeying for power by states and alliances that we really live under.

[McrRed]

What on earth does that even mean? Especially in this context. You think 'the man' controls everything and North Korea is part of it?

The world is a complicated place and always has been. There is no 'the man' in control of everything.

There are rich and powerful people who seek control but this event shows the reality, which is that they are more often fighting amongst themselves. The world would actually be a far safer place if there really was some shadowy world government in charge rather than the constant jockeying for power by states and alliances that we really live under.

That's how I read what trada said.

The world is turning into a warped reality show.

Who knows what the truth is any more

But thats what the "man" wants.

[HarryLabrador]

China piles pressure on North Korea by banning coal imports

China is suspending all imports of coal from North Korea as part of efforts to increase pressure on the country over its latest missile test.

China's commerce ministry said the ban would operate until the end of 2017.

It follows reports last week that China had rejected a shipment of North Korean coal worth $1m (£806,000; €942,100).

The ban brings China, North Korea's only ally, closer to fully implementing tough sanctions aimed at stopping Pyongyang's nuclear weapons programme.

Coal is North Korea's biggest export, with its shipments to China a mainstay of the country's fragile economy.

The latest development comes just days after the suspicious killing of the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un's half brother, Kim Jong-nam, at an airport in Malaysia.

Kim, who was largely estranged from his family, had spent much of his time overseas in the Chinese territory of Macau, where he was seen to have had the protection of China.

Will Kim Jong-nam's killing derail North Korea-China ties?

A significant development - by Robin Brant, BBC News, Beijing correspondent

The tightening from China has been incremental but this is a key move. It follows North Korea's test of a more sophisticated missile earlier this month. It may also be linked to the assassination of Kim Jong-un's half brother this week.

For North Korea, this targets the trade it relies on most heavily for cash. Almost all its coal exports go next door to China. Up to now the Beijing authorities had permitted some trade in coal, for "the people's" wellbeing'. That should now end.

China stopped importing some precious metals almost a year ago and banned the sale going the other way of fuel and other items associated with the weapons programme.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported last week that the $1m coal shipment had been stopped at Wenzhou port, on China's eastern coast on 13 February.

A day earlier, North Korea had tested an intermediate-range ballistic missile in defiance of UN Security Council resolutions banning the country from carrying out such actions.

It was the first such test since US President Donald Trump took office last month. Prior to his inauguration, Mr Trump said the US should pressure China to get North Korea "under control".

"China has… total control over North Korea," he said in an interview with Fox and Friends on 4 January.

"And China should solve that problem. And if they don't solve the problem, we should make trade very difficult for China.

China last year vowed to halt coal imports to North Korea with some exceptions. Despite this, Chinese data showed that North Korean coal exports to China had risen more than 12% in the past 12 months.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-39015529

[Red Beret]

I imagine China has no shortage of what NK provides, and that they pay handsomely over the odds for these imports to keep the regime propped up.  But you have to wonder how much of this is tied to China coming into line with international policy and how much is to do with all those lovely Trump brands, and what possible concessions China could leverage from the President.

[Ray K]

So it turns out the chemical used in the assassination was VX nerve agent. a literal Weapon of Mass Destruction by the UN. Possibly the most toxic substances in the world.  And they used it at a major international airport.

Holy fucking shit.

[Red Beret]

Wow, VX gas?  I've seen The Rock.  They really wanted to make sure they got that guy didn't they?? 

[Original]

Watched the VICE documentary on North Korea last night, worth a watch

[CheshireDave]

Watched the VICE documentary on North Korea last night, worth a watch

Is it a new one?

[Red Beret]

Worth bumping this under the circumstances, seeing as everybody is finally being forced to look at the elephant in the global room.

What do we do with a country like North Korea?  A belligerent, paranoid military dictatorship, whose leader fancies himself an Earth bound god.  Subjugating a terrified people through a fanatically loyal military.

No amount of cajoling, bargaining, diplomacy, or threats has worked to curb its ambitions.  I'm not even sure if anybody knows what its ambitions are anymore.  A united communist Korea?  The destruction of the United States? 

Is Korea only interested in protecting itself, or does it seek the weapons to launch a pre-emptive strike that will be impossible to challenge for fear of the potential (nuclear) repercussions? 

Is North Korea a problem that can ultimately only be solved one way?  Was there only ever one way, and the world has just been putting it off?

I'm beginning to think that a second Korean War is pretty much inevitable now; and perhaps history will judge it became inevitable a long time ago.  We can all be pretty sure that nothing will stop NK's nuclear ambitions, and once they can field large numbers of such weapons, things will only get even more messy and complex.

Not saying Trump is right - because he's current approach is hap hazard and piecemeal - but is it better to intervene now, before things get any worse? 

Whether we deal with him now or later, it will be carnage for South Korea either way.  But maybe that, too, is inevitable?  Perhaps compassion for South Korea has led to over indulgence of the North?

What else can be done diplomatically to pull this situation back?  The current White House seems adamant that they are done talking.

[oldfordie]

Worth bumping this under the circumstances, seeing as everybody is finally being forced to look at the elephant in the global room.

What do we do with a country like North Korea?  A belligerent, paranoid military dictatorship, whose leader fancies himself an Earth bound god.  Subjugating a terrified people through a fanatically loyal military.

No amount of cajoling, bargaining, diplomacy, or threats has worked to curb its ambitions.  I'm not even sure if anybody knows what its ambitions are anymore.  A united communist Korea?  The destruction of the United States? 

Is Korea only interested in protecting itself, or does it seek the weapons to launch a pre-emptive strike that will be impossible to challenge for fear of the potential (nuclear) repercussions? 

Is North Korea a problem that can ultimately only be solved one way?  Was there only ever one way, and the world has just been putting it off?

I'm beginning to think that a second Korean War is pretty much inevitable now; and perhaps history will judge it became inevitable a long time ago.  We can all be pretty sure that nothing will stop NK's nuclear ambitions, and once they can field large numbers of such weapons, things will only get even more messy and complex.

Not saying Trump is right - because he's current approach is hap hazard and piecemeal - but is it better to intervene now, before things get any worse? 

Whether we deal with him now or later, it will be carnage for South Korea either way.  But maybe that, too, is inevitable?  Perhaps compassion for South Korea has led to over indulgence of the North?

What else can be done diplomatically to pull this situation back?  The current White House seems adamant that they are done talking.

Kim Jong-un is making the same mistake Sadam made. he believes the USA are too scared to attack him.
We all know the dilemma facing the USA, they cant give him the time to acquire the nuclear capability to attack the USA.
You wonder what  would happen if the USA took out Kim Jong-un in a pre -emptive strike, ive no doubt his millitary commanders would retaliate.
Maybe the USA have to try and take away the threat to his millitary. offer Kim Jong-ung the same deal they offered Sadam, safe passage for him and his family to live in China. let it be known the USA have no problem with a military Junta ruling NK and they have no wish to go to war. they will however not tollerate NK  nuclear weapons and they have to agree to give up their nuclear capability.
 I doubt if Kim-Jong-un would accept the offer to live peacefully in China but his Military commanders may react far differently after he is gone knowing they will now take control over NK, it could lead to a millitary coup.
There is no easy answer to solve the NK problem but something has to be done. just blasting them will definitely lead to god knows where.

[[new username under construction]]

I wonder if many of his devoted followers would surrender quite quickly once the USA has wiped out his Air/Land/Sea capabilities...or would they be like Vietman

[Red Beret]

Kim Jong-ung is going nowhere because he thinks he's untouchable.  And I doubt we could perform a surgical strike without precise knowledge of his location - I doubt that is easy information to get hold of.

I can't see a non-military solution at this point.  But a non-China supported NK can at least be taken down.  The problem is we're looking at a death toll in the millions.

If NK is being pushed to pre-empt the question becomes how and where.  Mobilising a million-strong army isn't something you can hide very easily.  I wonder if Trump will fancy blowing huge holes in an army that sze with tactical nukes?  I imagine he thinks if China isn't prepared to risk its own soldiers than neither is he - and they're welcome to rebuild the smoking radioactive ruins themselves.

[oldfordie]

Kim Jong-ung is going nowhere because he thinks he's untouchable.  And I doubt we could perform a surgical strike without precise knowledge of his location - I doubt that is easy information to get hold of.

I can't see a non-military solution at this point.  But a non-China supported NK can at least be taken down.  The problem is we're looking at a death toll in the millions.

If NK is being pushed to pre-empt the question becomes how and where.  Mobilising a million-strong army isn't something you can hide very easily.  I wonder if Trump will fancy blowing huge holes in an army that sze with tactical nukes?  I imagine he thinks if China isn't prepared to risk its own soldiers than neither is he - and they're welcome to rebuild the smoking radioactive ruins themselves.

You dont dismiss a plan because it may be difficult, the question is would it work, would the NK military commanders order an immediate retaliation if he was killed, if the feeling is they would then the plan is flawed.
The plan right now seems to be a pre-emptive strike, those military leaders will be prepared to fight to the end that's for sure as they have no other choice. maybe they might react differently if Kim Jong-uns gone and they have a choice, power with no outside interference or outright war.

[Red Beret]

You dont dismiss a plan because it may be difficult, the question is would it work, would the NK military commanders order an immediate retaliation if he was killed, if the feeling is they would then the plan is flawed.
The plan right now seems to be a pre-emptive strike, those military leaders will be prepared to fight to the end that's for sure as they have no other choice. maybe they might react differently if Kim Jong-uns gone and they have a choice, power with no outside interference or outright war.

Personally I think the top brass WOULD order a counter strike.  They've been at this game a lot longer than their Dear Leader after all.  Plenty of them served his lunatic of a dad after all.

The question is how soon would they come to their senses in the midst of a power vacuum with no clear line of succession?  And again, it all boils down to knowing wher Kim Jong-ung actually is and having a weapon capable of reaching him.  Failure simply galvanises NK.

[oldfordie]

Personally I think the top brass WOULD order a counter strike.  They've been at this game a lot longer than their Dear Leader after all.  Plenty of them served his lunatic of a dad after all.

The question is how soon would they come to their senses in the midst of a power vacuum with no clear line of succession?  And again, it all boils down to knowing wher Kim Jong-ung actually is and having a weapon capable of reaching him.  Failure simply galvanises NK.

You may well be right but it is an option to consider. the most important thing would be for the USA to get the message out to these military leaders before they get rid of Kim, looking at it from the Military commanders point of view, they will all swear to avenge any attack on their leader that's a certainty. any other reaction would mean execution. I wouldn't be surprised if some look at their options and how they will come out of it, they wont be able to voice those opinions till Kim Jong-uns out of the way.
It is a gamble I know as it takes away the USA per-emptive strike options but i cant think of a better idea as the other option is all out war.

[Cliff Bastin]

America would destroy them easily enough with multiple strikes.

[TepidT2O]

America would destroy them easily enough with multiple strikes.

But they have so many conventional munitions that they may well have flattened Seoul by that point

[killer-heels]

Personally I think the top brass WOULD order a counter strike.  They've been at this game a lot longer than their Dear Leader after all.  Plenty of them served his lunatic of a dad after all.

The question is how soon would they come to their senses in the midst of a power vacuum with no clear line of succession?  And again, it all boils down to knowing wher Kim Jong-ung actually is and having a weapon capable of reaching him.  Failure simply galvanises NK.

McMaster has said today that they are working with the Chinese on North Korea. A Russian journalist said yesterday that North Korea is the last country that anyone wants to go to war over. Too many countries have too much to lose here.

The Chinese (and Russians) want a leader and country leaning towards them in North Korea so their tensions are around such a regime being friendly to the States if toppled or a unified Korea. But a war only brings refugees to their door, as well as the massive financial cost.

The States on the other hand face the same issue they have always faced which is that they cannot and will not condemn the South Korean's and Japanese to devestation. Its quite telling that yesterday the South Korean press and people were just blasé about the whole thing. The only one group shouting up were the Chinese, so who knows how realistic a pre-emptive strike really was.

In the end, the Chinese need to step up here. They want to be taken seriously in the world political stage but if they cannot control North Korea then they really are shit at all this. Everyone (even the Yanks) dont want a massive regime change and so the Chinese need to get this under control.

[thelinnen]

You have to wonder why South Korea haven't invested in a contingency plan to limit casualties in the event of an attack from the North. All they could do in that event is hide in the subway.

[killer-heels]

You have to wonder why South Korea haven't invested in a contingency plan to limit casualties in the event of an attack from the North. All they could do in that event is hide in the subway.

The weapons are on the border are they not? What could they put in place apart from the missile systems the states put into place?

[Zeb]

In the end, the Chinese need to step up here. They want to be taken seriously in the world political stage but if they cannot control North Korea then they really are shit at all this. Everyone (even the Yanks) dont want a massive regime change and so the Chinese need to get this under control.

It's in the Chinese interest to play up the threat and then be seen to be the only ones to defuse it and bring a normalisation to the area. Gives Trump his 'win' while avoiding the trade conflict he threatened. The US attempt to extend its economic influence is already dead in the water. And China gets to be the big regional power in international affairs. The wildcard is the instability at the top of North Korea and the US. Was interesting that the statement about the last failed missile test came from one of the generals in the Trump administration and pre-emptively shut down any further comment by the US administration. Or at least tried to given Trump on twitter.

[thelinnen]

The weapons are on the border are they not? What could they put in place apart from the missile systems the states put into place?

Shelters, assuming any attack would be with mortars and not nuclear. Obviously you'd still have to get lucky but that could save millions of lives if it comes to it.

[Red Beret]

You may well be right but it is an option to consider. the most important thing would be for the USA to get the message out to these military leaders before they get rid of Kim, looking at it from the Military commanders point of view, they will all swear to avenge any attack on their leader that's a certainty. any other reaction would mean execution. I wouldn't be surprised if some look at their options and how they will come out of it, they wont be able to voice those opinions till Kim Jong-uns out of the way.
It is a gamble I know as it takes away the USA per-emptive strike options but i cant think of a better idea as the other option is all out war.

Wouldn't work.  You're throwing away strategic surprise by tipping your hand and telling the leadership you're targeting their boss personally.  Not only does that encourage a pre-emptive strike on NK's part, but they'd just hide him away in a bunker that would need an ICBM to excavate - assuming you could even locate the correct bunker.

In an ideal world you'd encourage the leadership to remove him themselves, but part of the reason he behaves the way he does is because his backers are just as big a collection of lunatics as he is.  Like I said, they served his dad, and they're fanatically loyal to a fault. 

America would destroy them easily enough with multiple strikes.

If it were that easy then the first Korean War wouldn't have dragged on for five years.  Granted they had Chinese backing last time and the world has moved on, but this isn't like Saddam's million strong army back in 1991.  Simply blowing holes in the NK army through conventional bombing isn't going to immediate results.

[Red Beret]

I'd say that, on a purely diplomatic level, nobody is really arsed about NK being communist.  It's the fact that it is paranoid, belligerent and unstable, and working towards nukes that has everybody's interest.

I agree China need to step up.  I'm sure most diplomats would like nothing better to see the Chinese take out the entire NK leadership and replace it with a more docile puppet regime, but is that even a realistic possibility?

As for South Korea being blasé, well that's a big error on their part.  If they're expecting the current US administration to bail them out of the shit they're in for an awful shock.  If they had any common sense they'd already have an auxiliary government ready to step in at a city further south.  They might have contingency plans but they need to feel threatened enough to actually consider implementing them.

[Red Beret]

Incidentally, if anybody's interested here are wikipedia links to articles on NK's military forces:

Ground forces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army_Ground_Force

North Korean Navy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Navy

Air Force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army_Air_Force

NK Strategic Rocket Forces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army_Strategic_Force

What they lack in technological edge I'm sure they make up for in numbers.

[killer-heels]

I'd say that, on a purely diplomatic level, nobody is really arsed about NK being communist.  It's the fact that it is paranoid, belligerent and unstable, and working towards nukes that has everybody's interest.

I agree China need to step up.  I'm sure most diplomats would like nothing better to see the Chinese take out the entire NK leadership and replace it with a more docile puppet regime, but is that even a realistic possibility?

As for South Korea being blasé, well that's a big error on their part.  If they're expecting the current US administration to bail them out of the shit they're in for an awful shock.  If they had any common sense they'd already have an auxiliary government ready to step in at a city further south.  They might have contingency plans but they need to feel threatened enough to actually consider implementing them.

They have been living through this for years and they know better than most. Also its quite clear that any attack on North Korea would have to be signed off by the South Koreans and when they think there is an iminent threat they would give the Yanks the green light. Thats not including the Japanese either.

Also once again lets not mistake this as being Trump's work. This is McMaster and Mattis sailing this ship. His missiles in Syria and the ramping up of tensions was at the behest of a very pro NATO, pro ally and anti Russia Mattis and McMaster.

If Flynn had been in charge then its doubtful whether the States would have attacked Syria.

[oldfordie]

Wouldn't work.  You're throwing away strategic surprise by tipping your hand and telling the leadership you're targeting their boss personally.  Not only does that encourage a pre-emptive strike on NK's part, but they'd just hide him away in a bunker that would need an ICBM to excavate - assuming you could even locate the correct bunker.

In an ideal world you'd encourage the leadership to remove him themselves, but part of the reason he behaves the way he does is because his backers are just as big a collection of lunatics as he is.  Like I said, they served his dad, and they're fanatically loyal to a fault. 

If it were that easy then the first Korean War wouldn't have dragged on for five years.  Granted they had Chinese backing last time and the world has moved on, but this isn't like Saddam's million strong army back in 1991.  Simply blowing holes in the NK army through conventional bombing isn't going to immediate results.

Yeah, got to agree with you but am not sure they would be the first to strike, they know they will be wiped out with an overwhelming response if the launched any Nuclear weapons, they may however launch when the USA attack first and this is my main point, give the Military commanders another option.let them know they are not the target. I wouldn't assume the blind loyalty they show now is all down to love of their dear leader. I cant see any military coup while Kims around, the risk of even mentioning it to another Military commander is just too great.
As I say, the question was what other options have the USA got as a diplomatic agreement seems unlikely. just bombing the s.. out of them will mean every Millitary commander is fighting for his own life. try and convince them them they have options as the intention is to take out Kim Jong-un and not destroy NK.
 

[fudge]

Yeah, got to agree with you but am not sure they would be the first to strike, they know they will be wiped out with an overwhelming response if the launched any Nuclear weapons, they may however launch when the USA attack first and this is my main point, give the Military commanders another option.let them know they are not the target. I wouldn't assume the blind loyalty they show now is all down to love of their dear leader. I cant see any military coup while Kims around, the risk of even mentioning it to another Military commander is just too great.
As I say, the question was what other options have the USA got as a diplomatic agreement seems unlikely. just bombing the s.. out of them will mean every Millitary commander is fighting for his own life. try and convince them them they have options as the intention is to take out Kim Jong-un and not destroy NK.
 

Absolutely, unless he's literally mad he must know that any material threat beyond saber rattling would result in his and most of his countries total annihilation.

I really don't see why anything has to be done. , containment is working fine for everyone bar his own people.

Ultimately that's where the pressure of this regime is going to fail, it can't sustain itself indefinitely whilst its people know such hardship.

if he attacked the US, Japan or S.Korea then not even the Chinese Russians would stand in the way of the retribution they would have deservedly brought upon themselves.

[Red Beret]

I suppose my biggest concern is Trump and his hawks going it alone and not bothering to ask South Korea or Japan for permission, and only informing them with perhaps hours to go. 

I want to say that is a ridiculous scenario that throws decades' worth of diplomacy on the bonfire and creates a world so unstable that even Trump would think twice before doing it.  But let's face it, the man has an attention span of a gnat, and none of us are in Kansas anymore.

[killer-heels]

I suppose my biggest concern is Trump and his hawks going it alone and not bothering to ask South Korea or Japan for permission, and only informing them with perhaps hours to go. 

I want to say that is a ridiculous scenario that throws decades' worth of diplomacy on the bonfire and creates a world so unstable that even Trump would think twice before doing it.  But let's face it, the man has an attention span of a gnat, and none of us are in Kansas anymore.

Trump signed off the type of attack against Syria that Mattis and McMaster suggested. They gave the Russians advance notice and they were hardly going to suffer huge losses. They would definitely inform South Korea and Japan well in advance and get a green light.

Nobody really knows how this is going to turn out and who knows whats going on all these peoples twisted heads. But as it stands at the moment there appears (we hope) to be a level of control to this and if anything it doesnt reflect that well on the Obama administration.

[Red Beret]

Trump signed off the type of attack against Syria that Mattis and McMaster suggested. They gave the Russians advance notice and they were hardly going to suffer huge losses. They would definitely inform South Korea and Japan well in advance and get a green light.

Nobody really knows how this is going to turn out and who knows whats going on all these peoples twisted heads. But as it stands at the moment there appears (we hope) to be a level of control to this and if anything it doesnt reflect that well on the Obama administration.

Big difference between Syria and NK though.  Whatever leverage China might have against Trump's business interests, they don't seem interested or keen in trying to apply it right now. 

Also, Trump informed Russia about the missile strikes to avoid Russian casualties because they had boots on the ground in a foreign country.  That's different from striking NK which currently has no presence in the South.  I find it hard to think of a situation where South Korea and Japan say "no" to the US attacking NK and Trump actually listening.