Topic: EL: Liv 0 vs 3 Atal (1st leg) Scamacca 39’ 59’ Pastalic c83’

[Snail]

I assume you were at the match, in which case the irony of you having the luxury to attend matches in person but griping about a fucking 2% ticket hike.

Fuck me, what an utterly daft take.

[Cormack Snr]

I have said the same to my son, think Leeds pressed us when they played us at Anfield and they really unsettled us. Arsenal done the same this season.
On paper the team that started was shocking and so it proved, we need our very best team now in every game.

[Fromola]

All the talk of worst performances since whenever, but was it really much worse than Sheffield United literally the week before? We were just as slow, ponderous and wide open that night but they were shite as well, Atalanta though were very good. Difference as well was Mac's shot dipped just under the bar and Harvey's didn't, at key moments in the game with the scores level. We've ridden our luck in quite a few games, we got none last night.

[Fromola]

There’s been a few posts along these lines, which surprises me as this club is all about wining European (actually all) trophy’s. Yep even the secondary one.

It takes more to spark it for us when it's the Europa League. Either a major European outfit, a grudge match (like the Mancs the other year), a second leg comeback and/or a semi final (Dortmund, Villareal). If it was Milan or Roma last night it would have at least jolted the crowd a bit more going into the game, but in reality Atalanta are at a similar level now. Too many took for granted we'd win the match last night but a case of by how many to take it back to their place. How easy the Prague tie was didn't help.

[decosabute]

All the talk of worst performances since whenever, but was it really much worse than Sheffield United literally the week before? We were just as slow, ponderous and wide open that night but they were shite as well, Atalanta though were very good. Difference as well was Mac's shot dipped just under the bar and Harvey's didn't, at key moments in the game with the scores level. We've ridden our luck in quite a few games, we got none last night.

It wasn't as bad as say, the nuclear disaster that was Brighton away last season (still up there with the worst I've seen us play at any stage under any manager), but it was way poorer than anything else this season. Not comparable to other recent games at all in my opinion.

And I'm someone who's giving Atalanta a lot of credit - they were brilliant and worked harder than any opponent at Anfield this season.

We were still terrible.

[darragh85]

If the crowd protesting was the cause of us getting beat 3 0 at home to atalanta then we may as well throw in the towel in the league now as it's suggests a brittle mentality.

It wasnt on a par with a typical European night at anfield but it wasn't exactly the etihad either.  Its no excuse for the players to underperform to that extent and if there is a repeat of that on Sunday they can fuck right off to be honest about it. Not having that as an excuse in klopps last few games.

[redbyrdz]

Was thinking that our full playing calendar may have been playing a role too. Not just in terms of fatigue, but in lack of prep time. We usually have about two days to prep for the next match, and it just wasn't enough to practise playing against a man-marking team. Man-marking has been out of fashion for about 10 years now in the prem, and most of our players are maybe a bit too young to have played much in, or against, such a system. I'm sure they have all learned about it, but they just don't have much experience any more. And the two days of prep we had were not enough to do that. Hopefully the harsh lesson will have sunk in in time for the away game.

[Chris~]

Was thinking that our full playing calendar may have been playing a role too. Not just in terms of fatigue, but in lack of prep time. We usually have about two days to prep for the next match, and it just wasn't enough to practise playing against a man-marking team. Man-marking has been out of fashion for about 10 years now in the prem, and most of our players are maybe a bit too young to have played much in, or against, such a system. I'm sure they have all learned about it, but they just don't have much experience any more. And the two days of prep we had were not enough to do that. Hopefully the harsh lesson will have sunk in in time for the away game.

Plenty teams incorporate man-marking in to their play now, Klopp mention it in his post match conferences as well

[Fromola]

If the crowd protesting was the cause of us getting beat 3 0 at home to atalanta then we may as well throw in the towel in the league now as it's suggests a brittle mentality.

It wasnt on a par with a typical European night at anfield but it wasn't exactly the etihad either.  Its no excuse for the players to underperform to that extent and if there is a repeat of that on Sunday they can fuck right off to be honest about it. Not having that as an excuse in klopps last few games.

Europa League nights at Anfield need something to spark it and the crowd still need something to get behind. Thursday was squarely on the players and the tactics, but Harvey's shot goes a fraction lower at 0-0 and it's a different night altogether.

If we'd lost 2 or 3 nil at their place the other night then Anfield would be bouncing next week and nights like Dortmund and Barca would have been different if a first leg. It is what it is, Anfield has never been a choreographed crowd and can be complacent. If it was a league game, a European giant or a semi final then the crowd would have shown a bit more, but the whole club was complacent about that match, even Klopp said we were taken aback by Atalanta's intensity.

[spider-neil]

Plenty teams incorporate man-marking in to their play now, Klopp mention it in his post match conferences as well

Maybe, but that is the best execution I've seen of it. What we needed was players with the ability to carry the ball so the opposition would be forced to leave their man to engage with the ball carrier. So Jota, Gravenberch, Diaz.

[Schmidt]

I haven't really come into this part of RAWK for a couple of days because I'm still annoyed by this result.

If you asked me to pick the worst possibly team from our senior squad to play against a high pressing opponent, I would have picked something close to the team that started.

We seem to often pick teams based on fitness rather than suitability, and for the most part it has worked for us, but that team selection was pure arrogance. Same goes for turning Gomez into an inverted full back, he's completely unsuited and it stinks of doing something just to prove you can.

[Andy82lfc]

Ticket prices haven't gone up with inflation though.

This is from a decade ago.https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2027382/Premier-League-football-tickets-soar-1-000-decades.html

The price of watching the football matches of top English teams has soared to eye-watering levels, which is pricing many out of watching the beautiful game, according to research.

The creation of the English Premier League in the 1989-1990 season has seen the game turn into a multi-million pound industry and, in turn, ticket prices have shot skywards.

Bank of England figures show cumulative inflation of 77 per cent since 1990, yet at Liverpool a ticket is 1,000 per cent more expensive.

A lot of people fail to grasp this fact and I am guessing that most who are not that bothered can easily afford a little hike so are fine with it.

I don't think the protests came at a brilliant time or place, but that is a separate argument entirely, however I understand there are not many options.

The point is if anything tickets should be getting dropped in price, not the other way, and by a lot! The problem is most have sat and allowed these insane rises to happen over the years and now we are where we are.

 

[spider-neil]

How many times does it have to be said? It's not 2% which in itself is a drop in the ocean (to the club). It's the principle of raising the price when the club makes hundreds of millions from sponsorship and TV money. There is absolutely no need to raise the price, especially during a cost-of-living crisis.

[jillcwhomever]

I haven't really come into this part of RAWK for a couple of days because I'm still annoyed by this result.

If you asked me to pick the worst possibly team from our senior squad to play against a high pressing opponent, I would have picked something close to the team that started.

We seem to often pick teams based on fitness rather than suitability, and for the most part it has worked for us, but that team selection was pure arrogance. Same goes for turning Gomez into an inverted full back, he's completely unsuited and it stinks of doing something just to prove you can.

He has spent the entire season having to make calls on which players to use due to the absurdity of the fixture list and having endless injuries; which has meant using players in different positions. You don't know what the medical people have said beforehand, but as usual you just assume the worst that its due to arrogance. Let's talk about arrogance should we as it's been displayed a lot on here as well. The arrogance of people just expecting the team to automatically go to the final regardless. Then there is the arrogance of basically using the this competition as something unworthy, as it's not the title. As for your last paragraph all managers have to make calls on fitness and tiredness, it's part of their overall job. Never mind there is only eight games to go now so maybe then you will get a manager who absolutely flogs his players to pieces, and you can have another wild go at him.

[Schmidt]

He has spent the entire season having to make calls on which players to use due to the absurdity of the fixture list and having endless injuries; which has meant using players in different positions. You don't know what the medical people have said beforehand, but as usual you just assume the worst that its due to arrogance. Let's talk about arrogance should we as it's been displayed a lot on here as well. The arrogance of people just expecting the team to automatically go to the final regardless. Then there is the arrogance of basically using the this competition as something unworthy, as it's not the title. As for your last paragraph all managers have to make calls on fitness and tiredness, it's part of their overall job. Never mind there is only eight games to go now so maybe then you will get a manager who absolutely flogs his players to pieces, and you can have another wild go at him.

We had probably the most players available against Atalanta that we've had all season. Salah has hardly been flogged since returning from injury yet was on the bench, Gravenberch has missed a lot of games yet was on the bench while an unfit Jones played, Robertson hasn't played two games in a week for a while, Bradley came off early against United and Dom came off early in our last two games. All players who haven't been run into the ground recently and were much better suited to the opposition, yet we picked a team horribly suited to the task.

You talk about the arrogance of expecting the team to automatically reach the final and yet that's what our starting line up showed, an expectation that we can pick any team with no regard for the opposition and it'll work out.

[jillcwhomever]

We had probably the most players available against Atalanta that we've had all season. Salah has hardly been flogged since returning from injury yet was on the bench, Gravenberch has missed a lot of games yet was on the bench while an unfit Jones played, Robertson hasn't played two games in a week for a while, Bradley came off early against United and Dom came off early in our last two games. All players who haven't been run into the ground recently and were much better suited to the opposition, yet we picked a team horribly suited to the task.

You talk about the arrogance of expecting the team to automatically reach the final and yet that's what our starting line up showed, an expectation that we can pick any team with no regard for the opposition and it'll work out.

You are just assuming all these players are fine. The medical team maybe be telling him things that you know nothing about, but I get it you know best. Bradley was rightly rested as he was looking a bit tired. Also with the players coming back rushing them all onto the pitch is never a good idea, as rhythm takes time to come back to them. Having a midfield of Jones and Gravenberch was never going to be a good idea against a team of this nature.

[Schmidt]

You are just assuming all these players are fine. The medical team maybe be telling him things that you know nothing about, but I get it you know best. Bradley was rightly rested as he was looking a bit tired. Also with the players coming back rushing them all onto the pitch is never a good idea, as rhythm takes time to come back to them. Having a midfield of Jones and Gravenberch was never going to be a good idea against a team of this nature.

That argument works with one player but five or six left on the bench who would be better suited to the game suggests we gambled and fucked it.

Let's just hope all that rest our players got sitting on the bench watching us get hammered helps us against Palace.

[darragh85]

I knew I had seen this performance before under klopp. The 7 2 vrs villa was somewhat similar . A very unusual game and performance reflecting on it now.

[redbyrdz]

I think it was a bit of both. We clearly picked a 'rotated' side, with the Palace game just three days later. I don't think it was arrogance, but we clearly didn't do enough homework on them. We picked a fairly defensive team, with what we thought was a strong midfield, probably with the idea of stopping the early goal leaks, and keeping it tight at home, with the away game still to come. Tactically, every prem.game is now a must-win, while the Europa league ones are over two legs, so you can afford to be a bit weaker in one. If you don't lose 3-0...  I agree that we got the team selection wrong, we should have picked platers with strong man-to-man skills, and dribblers, because Atalanta didn't allow us to run into space unmarked. We did make fairly early changes, but the demise had truley set in by then. I do think that we were trying to protect some players - Bradley, for example, and we had a bench full of recent returners,but we could have probably started with a more attacking team, and then .ake defensive changes.

[Rush 82]

Really reminds me of the 3-0 loss to Watford in the title winning season. Mistakes punished,  chances not taken, defensive line all over the shop and a general lack of ideas going forward in key moments.

Agree with some of the other posters that this one is on Klopp. It was Atalanta’s system that made us suffer and we weren’t prepared for it. Always felt that despite us being favourites for the competition, we’d only win it if we kept our standards up.

I can’t rule us out, anyone would be foolish too, but that is a tough one to take. We need to really get back to being more defensively resolute. A few 1-0s and 2-0s in the league would do us a world of good.

Going over there next week, we need to avoid the temptation to go gung-ho, and need to focus on a clean sheet, whilst chipping away at their lead. 1-0 on 60 minutes is no bad thing. We need to dominate possession, camp in their half, push them right back and pen them in. We’re capable of doing so, but the key then becomes taking our chances.

As bad as we were tonight, we still created enough to score a few. I love Darwin but he’s not on form, and right now, he looks in need of a rest. Having a few games as an impact sub could be a good thing for him. Salah I believe needs more rhythm, he’s come back from injury and just isn’t quite finding the level yet, you could see the same with Jota and Jones yesterday too.

In my opinion, Gakpo has played his way into contention, and I’d start him against Palace. He offers a level of control up top that could help us all the way through the side, including helping to keep a clean sheet.

Szoboszlai, isn’t quite having the same impact, but he’s not miles away, it’s mainly his composure that needs to fall back into place. I’d persist with him, with Elliott as the option off the bench when needed. I don’t think Jones is ready to start yet either. He’s crucial to us when on form now, but he’s not back to his level yet.

The back seven were the ones to really suffer yesterday, I felt. Van Dijk and Mac Allister’s passing was off compared to what we’re used to. Konate too looked out of sorts, and it probably backs up the argument that this was the game for Quansah with Konate better suited to the United game. Gomez had his worst game for ages and Tsimikas looked too timid, when we really needed our full backs to push on an expose the space created behind the Atalanta pressing line, and I think the game would have suited Robbo and Bradley more, from the start. Particularly at home.

I actually felt, the game needed more players who could beat a man too, given the man to man marking operated, so a Gravenberch in midfield may well have suited us better, and I was disappointed to see Elliott off in the first changes, as although he struggled, he seemed more likely to create something than any one bar Gakpo, maybe, in the first half, and Diaz looks a must start for the second leg.

If Trent’s fit too, it becomes a different game, as his eye for a pass, and bravery on the ball would have been well suited to the game.

Overall, despite their breakaways, I felt we shaded the first half, even though you could see we weren’t fully coping with their setup. We weren’t clinical enough and were punished by a rare Kelleher error. Second half, we started bright too, all the subs gave us a momentarily lift, in fact, but it all soon looked disjointed and we ran out of ideas quickly, even though I think persistence with the plan would have paid dividends.

The game ended a mess, and we’ve started to gift teams goals in a way we haven’t been doing so far this season. As bad as the individual errors was the defensive organisation, which was at least partly responsible for each goal. Our offside trap which is usually superb was awful, and it could have cost us on more occasions than it did in the end.

Despite everything, it’s the same issues that are haunting us and part of that is our opponents being clinical whilst we are anything but. We need a massive improvement from Sunday onwards if this season isn’t going to end disappointingly. We need also to start picking a strongest XI and running with it now people are back from injury. There’s only a maximum of 9 games left on this run of one game every 3 days, we need to have consistency and fluency in them and rotating isn’t giving us that. By all means, switch up the side in game, at half time if needed, but we need to find a winning team fast and stick with it.

If we are at our best, this tie isn’t over, but we’ve got a lot of work to do in a week, if we are to reach that level. We go again against Palace and I expect a big response from the players and the crowd.

Pretty much spot on.
Well said.

[thegoodfella]

The management and the key players shat the bed really. Looked out of sorts and ill prepared, as if they had not prepared a plan for the match.

[Timbo's Goals]

Pretty much spot on.
Well said.

Join the club Rushie lad. That makes two us who think he nailed it with his post   

[spider-neil]

Fuck me, what an utterly daft take.

The biggest trick the billionaires ever pulled is making the working class turn on each other. Divide and conquer.