Author Topic: The Attack  (Read 394706 times)

Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4560 on: March 27, 2015, 11:21:27 pm »


& next season someone is worth as much as Steling, Couthino now? It doesn't work likethat and if yu allow yourself to be held to ransom each time you'll end with nothing.

Its all mad

As I said I don't hear anybody at the match saying give him what he wants but clearly all the people who want what is best for the club are in here
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4561 on: March 27, 2015, 11:22:33 pm »
You speak like you know him personally?

Theres been enough shite out there already. His first contract was a grind and Kenny wasnt exactly glowing with praise about it either.

Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4562 on: March 27, 2015, 11:22:39 pm »
You are not even trying to compare what Sturridge has done and scored for us compared to what Sterling has done. His value and ability is all based on potential. Sturridge has scored an amazing amount of goals for us and as such has deserved his contract. He has also ahieved more in his career than Sterling.

No I am looking to the future. What Sturridge did was great but he is injury prone.

Sterling is a valuable asset and a match winner.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4563 on: March 27, 2015, 11:24:26 pm »
What ludicrous demands?

the fact that you're asking that is equally ludicrous...
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Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4564 on: March 27, 2015, 11:25:41 pm »
Sterling is a valuable asset and a match winner.


As I said, I'm not knocking the lad but how many matches has he won?
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Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4565 on: March 27, 2015, 11:25:50 pm »
& next season someone is worth as much as Steling, Couthino now? It doesn't work likethat and if yu allow yourself to be held to ransom each time you'll end with nothing.

Its all mad

As I said I don't hear anybody at the match saying give him what he wants but clearly all the people who want what is best for the club are in here
I'm not fussed either way and I go to the match.

Just cheeses me off the stick he gets but Hendo who is currently on around 60k is using maybe getting the armband to double his wages to 120k but he seems to be fine as he is golden boy.


Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4566 on: March 27, 2015, 11:25:57 pm »
No I am looking to the future. What Sturridge did was great but he is injury prone.

Sterling is a valuable asset and a match winner.


But he hasnt achieved anything yet? He could get injured tomorrow? Thus contracts should be awarded on what you have achieved. Otherwise there will be lots of footballers who show promise and potential that are demanding 70k or more after a couple of years of football.

Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4567 on: March 27, 2015, 11:28:22 pm »
I'm not fussed either way and I go to the match.

Just cheeses me off the stick he gets but Hendo who is currently on around 60k is using maybe getting the armband to double his wages to 120k but he seems to be fine as he is golden boy.

I've said I dont thinkk that the club have handled any of it well, but Sterling has allowed his relationship with the match going crowd to become soured
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Offline Loo Pan

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4568 on: March 27, 2015, 11:29:29 pm »

Just cheeses me off the stick he gets but Hendo who is currently on around 60k is using maybe getting the armband to double his wages to 120k but he seems to be fine as he is golden boy.



He doesn't deserve that either, and if he is using the potential captaincy to try and demand more than what he's worth I'd give the armband to somebody else (which there's a good case for doing anyway).

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4569 on: March 27, 2015, 11:30:22 pm »
I'm not fussed either way and I go to the match.

Just cheeses me off the stick he gets but Hendo who is currently on around 60k is using maybe getting the armband to double his wages to 120k but he seems to be fine as he is golden boy.



Not sure Henderson deserves that either

Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4570 on: March 27, 2015, 11:30:59 pm »
But he hasnt achieved anything yet? He could get injured tomorrow? Thus contracts should be awarded on what you have achieved. Otherwise there will be lots of footballers who show promise and potential that are demanding 70k or more after a couple of years of football.


Well madrid have just signed a 15 year old on 40k per week.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4571 on: March 27, 2015, 11:32:00 pm »
Well madrid have just signed a 15 year old on 40k per week.

Er yeah thats Madrid. They are a different beast altogether.

Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4572 on: March 27, 2015, 11:34:05 pm »
Well madrid have just signed a 15 year old on 40k per week.

Part of the issue with Sterling is that he clearly indicated to people at the club (as well as others) that an agreement had been reached, only for that to change, its not the way to work, no wonder people are frustrated.

What Madrid do is about as relevant as how we acquired him in the fiest place.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4573 on: March 27, 2015, 11:35:31 pm »
He doesn't deserve that either, and if he is using the potential captaincy to try and demand more than what he's worth I'd give the armband to somebody else (which there's a good case for doing anyway).

Just think on the Hendo wanting double money to be captain of our club is disgraceful but because a kid who is a valuable asset is wanting what Hendo wants and more he is been attacked by the wolves.

Hendo and his agent are using the club to gain more money that's wrong. What sterling and his agent are doing isn't.

Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4574 on: March 27, 2015, 11:37:17 pm »
Part of the issue with Sterling is that he clearly indicated to people at the club (as well as others) that an agreement had been reached, only for that to change, its not the way to work, no wonder people are frustrated.

What Madrid do is about as relevant as how we acquired him in the fiest place.

Hmmm so do you think it's worse that being VC and then using that you might be captain to double your money?

Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4575 on: March 27, 2015, 11:42:22 pm »
Hmmm so do you think it's worse that being VC and then using that you might be captain to double your money?

I don't know if that has happened, I'm not sure that Henderson's negotiating position has changed. I don't think that he has said to the club after Gerrard announced he was leaving that we need to review what I was going to agree.

I do think that the club will come to an agreement with henderson's representatives and it will likely tie him down long term.
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Offline Loo Pan

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4576 on: March 27, 2015, 11:44:43 pm »
Just think on the Hendo wanting double money to be captain of our club is disgraceful but because a kid who is a valuable asset is wanting what Hendo wants and more he is been attacked by the wolves.

Hendo and his agent are using the club to gain more money that's wrong. What sterling and his agent are doing isn't.

They're both out of order.

This club has done a lot for both of them. We've put our faith in them, endured the difficult spells that come with their lack of experience, and given them a platform to develop to a level where they are being offered very nice contracts by the club, as well as all the money they make from sponsorships, and Nivea adverts etc as a result of their new found fame.

What Sterling and his agent are doing is trying to hold the club to ransom, knowing that the club might get desperate not to see a potential talent walk out the door the year after having lost Suarez.

It's a disrespectful game to be playing.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2015, 11:48:22 pm by Loo Pan »

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4577 on: March 27, 2015, 11:47:45 pm »
What Sterling and his agent are doing is trying to hold the club to ransom, knowing that the club might get desperate not to see a potential talent walk out the door the year after having lost Suarez.

It's disrespectful.
Either that or he's been tapped up. City are in the market for homegrown players to meet the quota restrictions. Chelsea always interested in weakening any potential opposition to Abramovich purchasing a bauble for them next season.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4578 on: March 27, 2015, 11:55:26 pm »
I don't know if that has happened, I'm not sure that Henderson's negotiating position has changed. I don't think that he has said to the club after Gerrard announced he was leaving that we need to review what I was going to agree.

I do think that the club will come to an agreement with henderson's representatives and it will likely tie him down long term.
Only because he is earmarked to be the captain you think that but in my eyes using his future position is worse than what Sterling is doing but some seem just to want to have a go at Sterling.

Looking Rodgers hasn't said who our 3rd captain is behind Gerrard and Hendo or they might want to double their wages also and use the armband to do it.

Offline Cork Red

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4579 on: March 27, 2015, 11:59:35 pm »

The long and the short of it is that a club of our means cannot afford to pay a 20 year old £150K a week for something he may or may not do in the future.

Take a look at the following for an indication of where we stand in Football's financial hierarchy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

There's only 7 clubs in the world that can afford to pay that kind of money to such a young kid, and we're not one of them.  A Bayern or a Real can afford to drop that kind of money and it won't effect their ability to spend on wages elsewhere.  That isn't the case with us.  We have to keep a tight reign on wages, otherwise we'll be back in the financial shit.  We can still afford to pay better than most clubs, including most of the Italian giants, but on our current revenue we can't have loads of players on 6 figure weekly wages. 

Given the wages given to Suarez and Sturridge I'm confident that the club will pay big money to those select few whose performances on the pitch make them worth it.  What we won't do is go back to the Hicks-Gillette-Cecil economic model whereby everyone is given a pay rise but there's no money left in the kitty to bring in new players.  Few wish to acknowledge it, but the wage inflation during their tenure was almost as big a factor as the debt in our near bankruptcy.  Give in to Henderson and Sterling and the boss will have 5/6 other players knocking on the door looking for 30-40% increases in their wages come negotiation time.   It becomes a spiral that's very hard to pull out of.
 

Offline john_mac

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4580 on: March 28, 2015, 12:01:22 am »
Only because he is earmarked to be the captain you think that but in my eyes using his future position is worse than what Sterling is doing but some seem just to want to have a go at Sterling.

Looking Rodgers hasn't said who our 3rd captain is behind Gerrard and Hendo or they might want to double their wages also and use the armband to do it.

Honesytly haven't a clue what that means.
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4581 on: March 28, 2015, 12:04:31 am »
Sturridge deserves it because he has a track record to deserve it. You don't get contracts just on what you do at a club, but also what you've done in the past, and Sturridge has the medals to back his claims up, to be fair to him. Sterling doesn't. You can see why there's an impasse. As I said before, at the same age, Owen and Fowler were smashing the goals in left, right and centre. Sterling right now is still a lot of potential and not enough end product. He's not a winner yet. Sturridge is. So there is a legitimate viewpoint from the club that he's not yet worth what Sturridge is worth.

First of all he does produce end product... consistently. His key pass numbers and chance creation numbers are up there with almost anyone in the league. He's done this despite moving position (seemingly every game or even within games...sometimes not even playing in attacking positions) and after spending a lot of the season being our only attacking player who was playing well

Secondly you're paid according to what you can negotiate. The fact is Sterling has a COLOSSAL value on the open market - higher than Sturridge's or anyone else at our club
Unfortunately for the club his agent(s) realise this and our absolutely in a position to ask for maximum wage because they know he can get it elsewhere... it's quite literally his worth. Not morally or ethically but according to the market

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4582 on: March 28, 2015, 12:18:44 am »
First of all he does produce end product... consistently. His key pass numbers and chance creation numbers are up there with almost anyone in the league. He's done this despite moving position (seemingly every game or even within games...sometimes not even playing in attacking positions) and after spending a lot of the season being our only attacking player who was playing well

Secondly you're paid according to what you can negotiate. The fact is Sterling has a COLOSSAL value on the open market - higher than Sturridge's or anyone else at our club
Unfortunately for the club his agent(s) realise this and our absolutely in a position to ask for maximum wage because they know he can get it elsewhere... it's quite literally his worth. Not morally or ethically but according to the market

You're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. When we're comparing the justification of Sturridge's wages and Sterling's apparent demands, Sturridge has more claim to his than Sterling does right now.

On the end-product thing - key passes are great. But goals get the money, and he isn't scoring enough goals to justify his demands. If any player wants wages comparable to a striker's, they have to be putting up strikers numbers. Sterling isn't right now, so the club would be right to hold back on 150k and ask where the extra 50k of output is. Xavi has more key passes and assists than Neymar, but Neymar is the higher paid player. That's just an example. In the history of the game, goalscorers have almost always demanded the most wages, because they do the thing that the game is about. So you can see where the club might say "hang on a minute - where are the goals to justify that money?"

I'm not saying I agree one way or another, by the way. I'm saying there is a legitimate case for both parties. It's not as simple as saying "just pay him what he wants". The club is not a bottomless pit of money, so they have to be careful with what they're paying for. If Sterling can get more than we're prepared to pay, on the open market, then that's his bargaining chip, for sure. The bargaining chip the club have is that he has 2 years left, and hasn't done enough right now to demand the figure he's reported to be demanding. They have a solid platform to make that stance. In the end, if he signs, it'll be because of a compromise on one or both sides. But when it comes down to the bare bones of football, goals talk louder than anything else, and Sterling right now is not too flush in that category. And so the club are probably justified in pulling the reins a bit.
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4583 on: March 28, 2015, 12:31:43 am »
(PoP) I understand your points I think we just disagree on where Sterling stands in the market.

Fine goals are the currency of football and help determine a players value but it's not a linear relationship (Luke Shaw is on 120k a week, Harry Kane is on 45k a week, Glen Johnson is on 120k a week etc)

Wages aren't a meritocracy in football or in life. We can argue who 'should' get more than who but what you get comes down to what you have the leverage to negotiate
Sterling is the most valuable player in our squad in terms of his value both in transfer fee and wages on the open market so he has the leverage to negotiate a bloody big number. Fine he has 2 years left so it doesn't have to be now but his value outside the club won't change (unless he has a bad injury) and will probably increase if he improves

Another point that the club could consider - let's say they can get him at 120/130k a week for 5/6 years right now. If he keeps developing at the same rate he has done or even close to it, when you consider the TV deal and what its going to do to wages and where he'll be in the game at that point, that will be a FUCKING STEAL in 2 years time

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4584 on: March 28, 2015, 12:38:02 am »
(PoP) I understand your points I think we just disagree on where Sterling stands in the market.

Fine goals are the currency of football and help determine a players value but it's not a linear relationship (Luke Shaw is on 120k a week, Harry Kane is on 45k a week, Glen Johnson is on 120k a week etc)

Wages aren't a meritocracy in football or in life. We can argue who 'should' get more than who but what you get comes down to what you have the leverage to negotiate
Sterling is the most valuable player in our squad in terms of his value both in transfer fee and wages on the open market so he has the leverage to negotiate a bloody big number. Fine he has 2 years left so it doesn't have to be now but his value outside the club won't change (unless he has a bad injury) and will probably increase if he improves

Another point that the club could consider - let's say they can get him at 120/130k a week for 5/6 years right now. If he keeps developing at the same rate he has done or even close to it, when you consider the TV deal and what its going to do to wages and where he'll be in the game at that point, that will be a FUCKING STEAL in 2 years time

We don't actually disagree. I'm just seeing it from the club's point of view, in football terms. They offered a generous rise. 100k is not peanuts. Sterling looked all set to sign. Then these rumours of a counter-offer 150k come up. So the question is, are the club justified in saying "hold on a second, Raheem"? I think they have a justification. I don't necessarily think that justification will or should stand in the way of progressive negotiations.
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4585 on: March 28, 2015, 01:18:31 am »
We don't actually disagree. I'm just seeing it from the club's point of view, in football terms. They offered a generous rise. 100k is not peanuts. Sterling looked all set to sign. Then these rumours of a counter-offer 150k come up. So the question is, are the club justified in saying "hold on a second, Raheem"? I think they have a justification. I don't necessarily think that justification will or should stand in the way of progressive negotiations.
Who made this 'counter-offer'?
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4586 on: March 28, 2015, 01:30:01 am »
Who made this 'counter-offer'?

I have no idea. Which is why I'm not panicking about Sterling. I said previously that as far as I can see, talks are just suspended until the campaign is over, so that the team can focus on the football. That's my position until we all know anything more concrete.
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4587 on: March 28, 2015, 01:35:15 am »
I have no idea. Which is why I'm not panicking about Sterling. I said previously that as far as I can see, talks are just suspended until the campaign is over, so that the team can focus on the football. That's my position until we all know anything more concrete.
Yep me too. I'm totally focused on this season. If better bids come in for my support in the summer I'll reevaluate my 30 odd years of being a Red ;)
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4588 on: March 28, 2015, 01:45:15 am »
Guess nobody really knows the truth, most info we get is propaganda from the club. Andy Heaton is on Twitter suggesting the contracts situation has been a major fuck up by the club
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4589 on: March 28, 2015, 02:09:07 am »
Sterling had a wonderful game. Scored one assisted another. WhoScored gave him a 10/10 performance. With Glens departure in the summer id give him that damn contract and put a 96 million pound clause for the 96 and sell him for 145 million pounds to real madrid next summer.  8)
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4590 on: March 28, 2015, 02:19:24 am »
Sterling had a wonderful game. Scored one assisted another. WhoScored gave him a 10/10 performance. With Glens departure in the summer id give him that damn contract and put a 96 million pound clause for the 96 and sell him for 145 million pounds to real madrid next summer.  8)

Let England pay him the balance of what he wants then :D
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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4591 on: March 28, 2015, 02:46:36 am »
Guess nobody really knows the truth, most info we get is propaganda from the club. Andy Heaton is on Twitter suggesting the contracts situation has been a major fuck up by the club

I see Heaton is suggesting Sterling has been tapped up by City, quelle surprise. Oh well, Pellegrini already set the price. What was it he said? £100m?

Difficult position for the club as in some regards it would be a poor statement to sell to a rival because we were seen to not want to pay the wages, but at the same time they don't want to be seen as weak when it comes to player demands. You get the sense that giving Sterling £150k now would only see him knocking on the door in 2 years time demanding even more or wanting out. I guess with 2 years left on his contract we still hold all the cards though.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4592 on: March 28, 2015, 07:43:58 am »
Honesytly haven't a clue what that means.


What I am saying is that Hendo and his agent are using the armband to get a bigger contract which is wrong.

So those that are having a go at Sterling should also be having a go at Hendo as well.

Both are as bad as each other.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4593 on: March 28, 2015, 07:59:53 am »
What I am saying is that Hendo and his agent are using the armband to get a bigger contract which is wrong.

So those that are having a go at Sterling should also be having a go at Hendo as well.

Both are as bad as each other.

Think you're seriously overrating the value of the armband. It's mainly ceremonial and a link to the dressing room these days when every aspect of the game on and off the pitch is monitored and decided on by the staff.

I think there isn't much to worry with Hendo; get the sense being an important player at Liverpool is about the high point of his career, he's not going to have it better anywhere else, most sources seem confident the player wants to commit long term, doesn't seem like there's an issue there at all.

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4594 on: March 28, 2015, 08:02:41 am »
What I am saying is that Hendo and his agent are using the armband to get a bigger contract which is wrong.

So those that are having a go at Sterling should also be having a go at Hendo as well.

Both are as bad as each other.

Sorry but all i can see you doing is having a go at Henderson whilst supporting Sterling, exactly what you are criticising.

For the record I think the sentence should read 'According to the British media, Hendo and his agent are using the armband to get a bigger contract', if it were true it would be wrong, far from convinced this is actually the case. I think Henderson is negotiating a contract that will see the prime of his career, and beyond, at Liverpool. The club never put a contract to him with 2 and 1/2 years to go, they allowed the deal to be run down.

The Sterling scenario is affecting everybody at the club far more, Rodgers is clearly perplexed. 5 weeks ago je was telling people that the contract was agreed and the club were preparing an announcement for the following Tuesday, something happened to change that. It hasn't helped the club, the player and, at least to an extent, soured his relationship with the fanbase.

I think that a deal will be reached but I also think that if his progress continues it is only a matter of time before we will get a parting of the ways.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 08:04:28 am by john_mac »
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Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4595 on: March 28, 2015, 09:00:30 am »
I see Heaton is suggesting Sterling has been tapped up by City, quelle surprise. Oh well, Pellegrini already set the price. What was it he said? £100m?

Difficult position for the club as in some regards it would be a poor statement to sell to a rival because we were seen to not want to pay the wages, but at the same time they don't want to be seen as weak when it comes to player demands. You get the sense that giving Sterling £150k now would only see him knocking on the door in 2 years time demanding even more or wanting out. I guess with 2 years left on his contract we still hold all the cards though.
There is a worse alternative. He could slack off or pick up injuries and regress/stagnate. He'd have 5 years to sit out on £150k a week. The club has to be entirely sure about his superstar quality AND committment to the cause before making him the highest paid player at the club. Right now he has shown neither.

Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4596 on: March 28, 2015, 09:08:01 am »
Sorry but all i can see you doing is having a go at Henderson whilst supporting Sterling, exactly what you are criticising.

For the record I think the sentence should read 'According to the British media, Hendo and his agent are using the armband to get a bigger contract', if it were true it would be wrong, far from convinced this is actually the case. I think Henderson is negotiating a contract that will see the prime of his career, and beyond, at Liverpool. The club never put a contract to him with 2 and 1/2 years to go, they allowed the deal to be run down.

The Sterling scenario is affecting everybody at the club far more, Rodgers is clearly perplexed. 5 weeks ago je was telling people that the contract was agreed and the club were preparing an announcement for the following Tuesday, something happened to change that. It hasn't helped the club, the player and, at least to an extent, soured his relationship with the fanbase.

I think that a deal will be reached but I also think that if his progress continues it is only a matter of time before we will get a parting of the ways.

No I said they're both as bad as each other.

Can't you see that?

Offline socrates the sophist

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4597 on: March 28, 2015, 09:14:20 am »
Well I like Sterling a lot and think he is a fantastic young player. However I do think Sturridge remains a more valuable player for now and even the future (Sturridge is only 25.)

I'd prefer to let Sterling go for an inflated fee (like the 100 mill Pelligrini mentioned) than to sell Sturridge. Because when I think about Sterling individually, what has he improved upon since first featuring in the first team? sure tactical awareness is better, but that's normal to expect. But it's not like he bulked up, improved his set pieces or even finishing. So if I'm put in a situation where I have to choose between Sturridge and Sterling I'd still choose Daniel. Especially bearing in mind we have players like Ibe, Wilson and Kent who are just as talented as Sterling in my opinion.

Offline Fordy

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4598 on: March 28, 2015, 09:17:12 am »
Well I like Sterling a lot and think he is a fantastic young player. However I do think Sturridge remains a more valuable player for now and even the future (Sturridge is only 25.)

I'd prefer to let Sterling go for an inflated fee (like the 100 mill Pelligrini mentioned) than to sell Sturridge. Because when I think about Sterling individually, what has he improved upon since first featuring in the first team? sure tactical awareness is better, but that's normal to expect. But it's not like he bulked up, improved his set pieces or even finishing. So if I'm put in a situation where I have to choose between Sturridge and Sterling I'd still choose Daniel. Especially bearing in mind we have players like Ibe, Wilson and Kent who are just as talented as Sterling in my opinion.
Strurridge isn't if he is injury prone.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

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Re: The Attack
« Reply #4599 on: March 28, 2015, 09:23:17 am »


But Balotelli: what was the point of spending £16 million on him if he is not called into action now? As a starter. Lambert is nowhere, Borini is in a parallel universe playing Fifa and earning lots of money. Unless Mario is ruining every training session, surely now is time to fit him into a formation, even as a partner for Raheem?

It's ridiculous. Can't see what he's done wrong on the pitch.
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