Topic: Lucas Leiva - A Man for All Seasons

[Sangria]

Yet I had to argue his qualities many times with reds before we won the champions league. Then of course they all changed their tune. Some people have a match of the day level of understanding. If its not goals, dribbles and goal line clearances, they don't get it.  It's the reason many people saw the likes of Stephen Ireland as a top player when he had his goal scoring spell. His game had fuck all else though. Lucas will never make the highlights reel but he'll be first name on Klopps list. Hope someone else steps up this weekend in his absence.....

When i used to play, I played as a shit version of Charlie Adam, all long distance Hollywood balls and stuff. I got goals and assists (not that the latter were called such at the time), but I was a far worse player than the guy who played behind me and covered my arse because I was a defensive non entity. I bloody appreciated that type of player though, who made it possible for my team to tolerate a tactical lackwit like myself.

[andspecks]

Seriously? You don't think Lucas is better defensively than Alonso?

Not particularly. I think Lucas is doing a great job for us right now and have no problems with him starting, but just think RAWK overdoes it in their assessment of him at times. If he was the best DM in the league teams better than Beşiktaş would be trying to sign him.

[SwordInYourGut]

When i used to play, I played as a shit version of Charlie Adam, all long distance Hollywood balls and stuff. I got goals and assists (not that the latter were called such at the time), but I was a far worse player than the guy who played behind me and covered my arse because I was a defensive non entity. I bloody appreciated that type of player though, who made it possible for my team to tolerate a tactical lackwit like myself.

Charlie Adam is a shit version of Charlie Adam 

[Sangria]

Not particularly. I think Lucas is doing a great job for us right now and have no problems with him starting, but just think RAWK overdoes it in their assessment of him at times. If he was the best DM in the league teams better than Beşiktaş would be trying to sign him.

Didn't Bayern Munich want him when Dalglish was manager?

[Chakan]

Not particularly. I think Lucas is doing a great job for us right now and have no problems with him starting, but just think RAWK overdoes it in their assessment of him at times. If he was the best DM in the league teams better than Beşiktaş would be trying to sign him.

I think i'll just leave , no point in a debate here. You think Xabi Alonso is defensively sound as Lucas.

[Sangria]

Charlie Adam is a shit version of Charlie Adam 

Charlie Adam may have been shite by LFC standards, but he is still a professional footballer. I modelled myself on what I thought were the significant qualities of Molby. I only understood, much later, that a diet of glazed cherries is nauseating if you don't have the cake to go with it. When Molby did that interview with Alonso where they talked about how English fans only appreciated the 40 yard pass but not the 5-10 yard pass to keep things ticking that was the bread and butter of their game, I recognised said English fan immediately.

[stoa]

In my view, the big problem with Lucas is that people look at what he can't do or who he is not. If you take that approach, we should probably replace our whole squad with better players, because Benteke is no Suarez, Sturridge is no Torres (and I'm talking about the Torres-under-Rafa Torres) and Lovren is no Carragher. So, Lucas being compared to other players' strengths will always be bad for him. Yes, he is no Alonso, yes, he is no Mascherano. However, he does have a certain way of playing and if used in the right way he can play an equally important role in a team (even though it's a different one). Give us some stability in defence, but at the same time be an outlet when we go forward. Not in terms of getting 20 assists every season, but in terms of keeping the ball, finding guys in red shirts in good positions or simply moving the ball forward. I'm glad Klopp seems to value his contribution, because I think he is very good at what he does. There are certainly better players out there than him, but there always are for (almost) every player. So, why criticise him for not being Alonso instead of Mascherano? I'd rather people start appreciating him for being Lucas Leiva, because that lad is quite a fine footballer and one of the few consistant ones in our current squad...

[Klopp-A-Delphia]

Klopp believes in Lucas-I believe in Klopp-I believe in Lucas

I'd be the first to admit I never rated Lucas and he's always frustrated me. He's allergic to the goal, losses the ball far too often, and makes far too many rash challenges. But he keeps the game moving and is great at breaking up play. He's like a lesser version of Mascherano, but that's like being a lesser version of Messi in that "holding midfielder" position.

Yet in the past 3 or 4 seasons, Lucas has grown on me in leaps and bounds, especially in the way he showed such tremendous character to come back from two seemingly career destroying injuries. What Lucas has is "intangibles." He's a natural leader and a committed professional who inspires everyone around him, and he adores this club and most of us adore him in return. He has incredibly high game intelligence and this makes up for what he lacks in talent. Being only 28 and playing a position like DM, similar to great center backs, holding midfielders can get better and better with more experience. With Klopp, I think the sky is the limit for Lucas.

[Doc Red]

I'm glad he's back healthy and is a consistent and important player in our starting lineup. I've always liked his effort, mentality, and especially the way he seems to really have embraced being part of the club and the city. Was sad to see him slowly become an under utilised player in our squad over the latter few seasons, and I was a little worried that he might have left us in either one of the past two summer windows.

Glad to see he's back, playing a big role, and it certainly seems like he's probably in Klopp's plans for the future. Having said all the above, I think we would benefit with some competition in his position, especially because I'm not so convinced he can handle two matches a week (especially in consecutive weeks) due to his health history, and we don't seem to have anyone on the roster that plays his position at anywhere close to his level. I still feel Rossiter is a season or two away from providing competition for Lucas.

[Dubred]

Klopp believes in Lucas-I believe in Klopp-I believe in Lucas

I'd be the first to admit I never rated Lucas and he's always frustrated me. He's allergic to the goal, losses the ball far too often, and makes far too many rash challenges. But he keeps the game moving and is great at breaking up play. He's like a lesser version of Mascherano, but that's like being a lesser version of Messi in that "holding midfielder" position.

Yet in the past 3 or 4 seasons, Lucas has grown on me in leaps and bounds, especially in the way he showed such tremendous character to come back from two seemingly career destroying injuries. What Lucas has is "intangibles." He's a natural leader and a committed professional who inspires everyone around him, and he adores this club and most of us adore him in return. He has incredibly high game intelligence and this makes up for what he lacks in talent. Being only 28 and playing a position like DM, similar to great center backs, holding midfielders can get better and better with more experience. With Klopp, I think the sky is the limit for Lucas.

I appreciate your sentiment is good there mate but a lot of what you say there is complete shite.

Lucas certainly doesn't lack talent nor does he constantly give the ball away.

Do you actually watch him or just go with the common narrative in the media, that is now starting to turn in his favour simply because Klopp is picking him?

The guy is simply one of the most intelligent players we have, and one of the best at retaining the ball.

He has an excellent pass on him and is a lot more than just a tackler.  There's certainly no lack of talent and its just a shame our own fans can't see what he's been doing season on season for a long time now.

[farawayred]

Klopp believes in Lucas-I believe in Klopp-I believe in Lucas

I'd be the first to admit I never rated Lucas and he's always frustrated me. He's allergic to the goal, losses the ball far too often, and makes far too many rash challenges. But he keeps the game moving and is great at breaking up play. He's like a lesser version of Mascherano, but that's like being a lesser version of Messi in that "holding midfielder" position.

Yet in the past 3 or 4 seasons, Lucas has grown on me in leaps and bounds, especially in the way he showed such tremendous character to come back from two seemingly career destroying injuries. What Lucas has is "intangibles." He's a natural leader and a committed professional who inspires everyone around him, and he adores this club and most of us adore him in return. He has incredibly high game intelligence and this makes up for what he lacks in talent. Being only 28 and playing a position like DM, similar to great center backs, holding midfielders can get better and better with more experience. With Klopp, I think the sky is the limit for Lucas.

I never got the frustration people had with Lucas from his very early days here, and the criticism regarding his goal record. Yes, it's nice for a DM to pitch in with a few goals, but it's not a prerequisite. This is akin to accusing the spring of a clock that keeps it ticking for not ringing the bell at 12 o'clock. I'm quite excited to see Lucas' development under Klopp, because he is doing exactly what he is best suited to do. And I have the feeling that this may be his best scoring season (or at least equal).

[kkhaku]

Lucas' criticism has always been based on his perceived lack of contribution. He seemed to be the player that kept things ticking but never really did anything to help out. Broke up play as well as any other DM in the league I suppose, but also gave away a lot of fouls, the odd turnover of possession. Offered nothing going forward, mainly sideways passes into feet, not particularly athletic in any regard, prone to injury, nothing really to write home about. 8mill to Beşiktaş seemed about right.

What did see a lot however is the odd game where he would absolutely enrage the oppositions attacking quartet, while simultaneously dominating his midfield counterpart. In all the matches where he's put in MOM performances, any of the opposition attackers were never able to get their head up while on the ball, any run forward is thwarted by him being in the right place at the right time. Additionally the likes of Yaya Toure are losing ariel challenges to him, and have no opportunity to play the ball into the feet of their forwards due to how fast he closes them down.

Klopp has turned that 'odd game' into a consistent Lucas game. Lucas was already starting to do this when Brendan let him get into a run of games, but he is now doing this regularly, week in week out, and in Europe. His tackle rate is the highest in the league despite having played 200 less minutes than the next two players in line. He's 2nd in the European leagues for that. Tackle success rate is 2nd best in the league. He wins over 60% of his ariel duels, which is in the same range as Skrtel and Benteke. If you remember he's only 1.79m tall, that is fucking jawdropping.

[Klopp-A-Delphia]

I never got the frustration people had with Lucas from his very early days here, and the criticism regarding his goal record. Yes, it's nice for a DM to pitch in with a few goals, but it's not a prerequisite. This is akin to accusing the spring of a clock that keeps it ticking for not ringing the bell at 12 o'clock. I'm quite excited to see Lucas' development under Klopp, because he is doing exactly what he is best suited to do. And I have the feeling that this may be his best scoring season (or at least equal).

Well it happens often enough that he has a lot of space on the edge of the box because he isn't a goal threat. I hate that he's never able to punish the opposition for that.

[Sangria]

Lucas' criticism has always been based on his perceived lack of contribution. He seemed to be the player that kept things ticking but never really did anything to help out. Broke up play as well as any other DM in the league I suppose, but also gave away a lot of fouls, the odd turnover of possession. Offered nothing going forward, mainly sideways passes into feet, not particularly athletic in any regard, prone to injury, nothing really to write home about. 8mill to Beşiktaş seemed about right.

What did see a lot however is the odd game where he would absolutely enrage the oppositions attacking quartet, while simultaneously dominating his midfield counterpart. In all the matches where he's put in MOM performances, any of the opposition attackers were never able to get their head up while on the ball, any run forward is thwarted by him being in the right place at the right time. Additionally the likes of Yaya Toure are losing ariel challenges to him, and have no opportunity to play the ball into the feet of their forwards due to how fast he closes them down.

Klopp has turned that 'odd game' into a consistent Lucas game. Lucas was already starting to do this when Brendan let him get into a run of games, but he is now doing this regularly, week in week out, and in Europe. His tackle rate is the highest in the league despite having played 200 less minutes than the next two players in line. He's 2nd in the European leagues for that. Tackle success rate is 2nd best in the league. He wins over 60% of his ariel duels, which is in the same range as Skrtel and Benteke. If you remember he's only 1.79m tall, that is fucking jawdropping.

One particular tackle during that famed Man City game sticks in the memory. Silva wanders into space as he customarily does, offering himself to the man on the ball (Barry). Before Barry himself even sees the pass, Lucas is already on the move, and when Silva receives the ball, he doesn't even have time to control properly before Lucas gets the ball away, hitting him painfully in the process. Silva spends the next 30 seconds on the floor, complaining about the injustice of a world where the ball is no sooner in front of him than it's gone. Man City won the league that year, with Silva their main creator, and Gary Neville rated Lucas as the best at handling him that season.

In another game from that season, there were worries about how our CBs would handle Kevin Davies, he of the flying elbows. As it happened, they handled him quite easily, courtesy of Lucas cutting out the long ball before it even got to the striker/defender challenge zone. Davies was substituted midway through the second half as it was clear the ball wasn't getting anywhere near him.

[Dougle]

I think there could be more to come from him.

He's brilliant at what he's doing now, but I'd love to see him score ... honestly, all he needs is a goal 

A fucking belter of a goal.

Watch him blossom, watch him really believe in himself, watch him become the player we've got now and the player we thought we were getting 8 years ago 

It's coming .... boy is that gonna be a belter of a celebration. If there is any justice in the football world it'll come.

[stoa]

Klopp has turned that 'odd game' into a consistent Lucas game. Lucas was already starting to do this when Brendan let him get into a run of games, but he is now doing this regularly, week in week out, and in Europe.

Except that it has nothing to do with Klopp. Lucas was pretty consistent under Rodgers except that Rodgers didn't really want to play Lucas (or a player like him for that matter). Whenever Lucas got on the pitch, he did what he's doing now. Same goes for Kenny, where people basically wrote off our season after Lucas went off injured against Chelsea, because he was playing that well and we didn't have a like-for-like replacement. I'm sorry, but Lucas has not somehow turned from some complete fuckwit into a very good player. He has been that player for a couple of years now, the only problems were two unfortunate injuries and a manager who didn't want to play him...

And I am sick of reading about his fouling. He has NEVER given away significantly more fouls than other players in the same or a similar position (and no, he also didn't give away more fouls in dangerous positions than others). Could we please fucking stop peddling that fucking myth? One thing I will concede is that in his early years he was punished for stuff he gets away with now, either because he was clumsier or refs simply found it easier to blow the whistle against some kid from Brazil no one had ever heard of...

[DangerScouse]

I think i'll just leave , no point in a debate here. You think Xabi Alonso is defensively sound as Lucas.

Best off. beggars belief, it really does. 

[U13]

My favourite person at the club by a distance.

Besides the fact he's a quality player on the pitch, I think he's a huge asset to the squad as a personality.

Got booed as a young player, turned it around and established himself as a key player.
Got a serious injury, came back from it.
Got frozen out by the manager multiple times, didn't kick up a fuss and proved his worth when called upon.

He's a model professional who I imagine all of our young players can use as a reference point in pretty much any difficult situation.

[Redcap]

Now that we've established Lucas's importance to the team, we need to think about getting in someone to challenge him or back him up. We all remember the effect of his injury during Kenny's last season on that campaign.

That, or Rossiter needs to be given a lot more game time to get him as ready as possible for the eventuality where Lucas faces an extended spell out.

[andspecks]

I think i'll just leave , no point in a debate here. You think Xabi Alonso is defensively sound as Lucas.

Well I know which I'd rather in my team, put it that way.

[LiverBirdKop]

Well I know which I'd rather in my team, put it that way.

Give up already. Two different players - I really hope you understand that. 

[Fluke]

Lucas' criticism has always been based on his perceived lack of contribution. He seemed to be the player that kept things ticking but never really did anything to help out. Broke up play as well as any other DM in the league I suppose, but also gave away a lot of fouls, the odd turnover of possession. Offered nothing going forward, mainly sideways passes into feet, not particularly athletic in any regard, prone to injury, nothing really to write home about. 8mill to Beşiktaş seemed about right.

Have to say, I disagree with almost everything you've written there.

He's never given away a lot of fouls (as someone else mentioned) and he's always been one of our best at recycling possession.  Before he did his ACL, he had Suarez levels of invincibility. He's as fit as anyone  (if anything, it was a worry if he would regain his endurance levels after his injury, which he thankfully has).  Also, as others have said, he isn't becoming a good player now. He has always been quite consistently good, shutting down the whole chelsea team the day he did his knee. The only time he wasn't is when he came back from that injury.

[BarryCrocker]

Well I know which I'd rather in my team, put it that way.

I'd rather have both. At the same time.

[sideshowme]

i get the impression he's klopp's general on the pitch, especially with the foreign players.  there was an interview with moreno where he named lucas as his go-between with klopp.  you can't put a price or a stat on influence like that.

[Rosario]

Now that we've established Lucas's importance to the team, we need to think about getting in someone to challenge him or back him up. We all remember the effect of his injury during Kenny's last season on that campaign.

That, or Rossiter needs to be given a lot more game time to get him as ready as possible for the eventuality where Lucas faces an extended spell out.

I think we may all be surprised by the amount of game time Rossiter gets when comes back. Just some of the things Klopp has said in press conferences makes me think he could well get a lot of game time in cups and Europe with maybe the odd League appearance with our busy schedule.

[Dizzyfinn]

I bet Lucas gets 3 goals between now and the end of the season.

[Giono]

I think there could be more to come from him.

He's brilliant at what he's doing now, but I'd love to see him score ... honestly, all he needs is a goal 

A fucking belter of a goal.

Watch him blossom, watch him really believe in himself, watch him become the player we've got now and the player we thought we were getting 8 years ago 

He should have had an important early goal in his first derby except for Neville's hand getting in the way. How that would have changed people's early impressions of him...

http://youtu.be/lAuIeioKtHk

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Can we all agree Roy Keane is a c*nt, an should've gone to prison for what he did to Haaland.

Winners are more often than not c*nts.

[BabuYagu]

Good player and his loyalty is admirable, but ultimately if we want to win the league we need better in his position playing week in week out.

I am at that point now where I think people who perceive Lucas as a problem in our side just fundamentally don´t understand his role, that position and the qualities they bring. You don´t so much need to show them why Lucas is good but actually educate them on the role of a holding midfielder.

"He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres. Younger players will arrive who will cause Makelele to be forgotten."
 - Florentino Perez demonstrating zero knowledge of the importance of Claude Makélélé or what skillset and experience his role requires.

[BabuYagu]

I think there could be more to come from him.

He's brilliant at what he's doing now, but I'd love to see him score ... honestly, all he needs is a goal 

A fucking belter of a goal.

Watch him blossom, watch him really believe in himself, watch him become the player we've got now and the player we thought we were getting 8 years ago 

He´ll score for us this season, a vital goal too. I´ll be in floods of tears like a fucking soft twat!

[beardsleyismessimk1]

So many back handed, through gritted teeth , dont really know why i am saying it but ill go along with it for now, as it seems to be flavour of the month, and klopp is playing him, so there must be something in it compliments from the most educated football supporters in the land.

Really should be the captain, but maybe it is better for him that he isnt.

[Severely]

Gerrard put it best in his new book - love him to bits. A proper footballer, leader, and man. Love him to bits.

[xbugawugax]

Absolutely one of my favourite players to watch. Criminally underrated.

Plays the game with his head.

So many back handed, through gritted teeth , dont really know why i am saying it but ill go along with it for now, as it seems to be flavour of the month, and klopp is playing him, so there must be something in it compliments from the most educated football supporters in the land.

Really should be the captain, but maybe it is better for him that he isnt.

I sense some sarcasm. He is the type of player that doesn't really grab the headlines but you will only notice when he is not there is the biggest compliment that I could give.

[steveeastend]

Gerrard put it best in his new book - love him to bits. A proper footballer, leader, and man. Love him to bits.

What did he say?

[Severely]

What did he say?

From memory, his exact words are that he loves Lucas Leiva to bits.

[BabuYagu]

Better playmaker? Has Lucas registered an assist in the last two seasons? Also not sure he's better than Alonso defensively haha.

You do realise that being a deep lying playmaker isn´t measured by assists? The exact same shit was actually used to beat Xabi Alonso with when he was here. "How can he be a playmaker with only 3 assists this season?"

As for the second part of your sentence, I think I have answered my own question. You don´t get it.

[Redsnappa]

He´ll score for us this season, a vital goal too. I´ll be in floods of tears like a fucking soft twat!

It's going to happen. Be like when Rafa signed God back or Ged came back from his illness - it's going to be emotional 

[BabuYagu]

In my view, the big problem with Lucas is that people look at what he can't do or who he is not. If you take that approach, we should probably replace our whole squad with better players, because Benteke is no Suarez, Sturridge is no Torres (and I'm talking about the Torres-under-Rafa Torres) and Lovren is no Carragher. So, Lucas being compared to other players' strengths will always be bad for him. Yes, he is no Alonso, yes, he is no Mascherano. However, he does have a certain way of playing and if used in the right way he can play an equally important role in a team (even though it's a different one). Give us some stability in defence, but at the same time be an outlet when we go forward. Not in terms of getting 20 assists every season, but in terms of keeping the ball, finding guys in red shirts in good positions or simply moving the ball forward. I'm glad Klopp seems to value his contribution, because I think he is very good at what he does. There are certainly better players out there than him, but there always are for (almost) every player. So, why criticise him for not being Alonso instead of Mascherano? I'd rather people start appreciating him for being Lucas Leiva, because that lad is quite a fine footballer and one of the few consistant ones in our current squad...

Love this post mate thanks.

In reply to your other point about his fouling, I disagree. I love him BECAUSE he fouls a lot. His tactical fouls are beautiful to watch. I love that moment in every game where you see a team breaking and Can is ahead of play, Lucas comes out of nowhere and makes a foul look as clumsy as possible. Almost like it´s the fault of the opposition player for just intentionally running into him. Refs buy it more often than not. The best was Ramires this season though. How he escaped without a yellow there will always be one of the best cons you will ever see.

The best holding midfielders are the ones than can immediately assess their team and how vulnerable they are in a situation and decide whether to try and win the ball or just make sure the attacks ends by whatever means possible. Lucas is one of the best I have ever seen at this.

[BabuYagu]

I bet Lucas gets 3 goals between now and the end of the season.

[thegoodfella]

Lucas is boss!