Author Topic: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original  (Read 11214 times)

Offline Red Viper

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2012, 02:20:07 pm »
The prequel trilogy: about 20 minutes of good action (Yoda, Pod race, Darth Maul) and 5 hours 40 minutes of bilge.


You liked the pod race? I actually found that to be just as tedious as the discussions about trade disputes and all that shit. In fact I'd go as far to say it's my least favourite part of all 6 films.

For me, it's like Plinkett says in his reviews, even the good special effects and action scenes are boring due to the apalling characters and writing. There's just no tension or meaning to any of it.

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2012, 02:52:50 pm »
You liked the pod race? I actually found that to be just as tedious as the discussions about trade disputes and all that shit. In fact I'd go as far to say it's my least favourite part of all 6 films.

For me, it's like Plinkett says in his reviews, even the good special effects and action scenes are boring due to the apalling characters and writing. There's just no tension or meaning to any of it.

Yeah I liked the Pod race, especially watching it in a big cinema with surround sound. Agree with that about the tension, you want to care about characters like Mace Windu and Yoda but at the end of the day, they may as well be librarians.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 03:10:36 pm »
Andy is such a shit troll.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 03:14:24 pm »
Do you think he brags about trolling RAWk when on Red Cafe?

Offline Beav

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 06:02:43 pm »
The Pod Racer scene was added because of a line in the original film, Obi-Wan mentions to Luke that the 1st time he met his father he was already a great pilot. This is one of the main problems with the prequels, showing things that have already been told to the audience.

Very true, they even manage to mess it up anyway though. In the originals Luke asks Leia about what she remembers of her birth mother, and she says she remembers her being beautiful and kind or something, when shes dead about a minute after Leia being born. There are probably other examples but that was the one that stuck out for me.

Watched that funny review of Ep.1 earlier, it was pretty spot on with it all despite being a bit weird.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2012, 07:15:25 pm »
Very true, they even manage to mess it up anyway though. In the originals Luke asks Leia about what she remembers of her birth mother, and she says she remembers her being beautiful and kind or something, when shes dead about a minute after Leia being born. There are probably other examples but that was the one that stuck out for me.

Watched that funny review of Ep.1 earlier, it was pretty spot on with it all despite being a bit weird.

Could just be the parents that adopted her? How would Leia know the difference.
:D

Offline Beav

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2012, 07:35:59 pm »
Could just be the parents that adopted her? How would Leia know the difference.

Leia knew they werent her real parents and said that she only remembered a bit of her real mother.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2012, 07:46:53 pm »
Could just be the parents that adopted her? How would Leia know the difference.
Fuck, now I have to be a nerd.

Luke says something like, do you remember your mother...your real mother?

Leia replies, yes, images. she was very sad and very beautiful.

Now she could well have thought Organa was her mother, but that's not really how the scene comes across.

As for how she remembers, it is a bit stupid, but I put it down to her have a bit of the force, so perhaps had better perception or somesuch while in utero.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2012, 07:51:05 pm »

As for how she remembers, it is a bit stupid, but I put it down to her have a bit of the force, so perhaps had better perception or somesuch while in utero.

Thats the most mind bending explanation of that scene ive ever come across. ;D
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2012, 07:58:51 pm »
Thats the most mind bending explanation of that scene ive ever come across. ;D
It's the only way to explain it, thanks to yet another Lucas fuck up :P

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2012, 03:24:24 am »
Fuck, now I have to be a nerd.

Luke says something like, do you remember your mother...your real mother?

Leia replies, yes, images. she was very sad and very beautiful.

Now she could well have thought Organa was her mother, but that's not really how the scene comes across.

As for how she remembers, it is a bit stupid, but I put it down to her have a bit of the force, so perhaps had better perception or somesuch while in utero.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2012, 03:46:24 am »
Well if nothing else you've piqued my interest in a trilogy I'd previously had no intention of viewing (though I did see Phantom Menace).
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2012, 08:31:03 am »
Well if nothing else you've piqued my interest in a trilogy I'd previously had no intention of viewing (though I did see Phantom Menace).
Don't do it. I didn't even finish the first one, watched the next two somewhere between wincing and recoiling in horror. I've then spent the rest of my life erasing the betrayal from my memory.

Star Wars was the first film I ever saw at the cinema. Fuck you George Lucas.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2012, 08:35:28 am »
As for how she remembers, it is a bit stupid, but I put it down to her have a bit of the force, so perhaps had better perception or somesuch while in utero.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2012, 10:02:20 am »
Don't do it. I didn't even finish the first one, watched the next two somewhere between wincing and recoiling in horror. I've then spent the rest of my life erasing the betrayal from my memory.

Star Wars was the first film I ever saw at the cinema. Fuck you George Lucas.

So fuck the person that came up with the whole concept and put it to film? Mental.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2012, 10:08:42 am »
The only good thing i could take away from the prequels is darth maul.. and they fucking killed him in the first episode, what a fucking waste! was easily the best sith character (behind vader of course) that and natalie portman  :lickin

the thing is with the original trilogy lucas had help with the screen play and he didnt direct it, he directed all of the prequels (if memory serves me correct) and thats where it all went tits up. anyone who says the prequels are better than the originals needs put down.
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Offline zero zero

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2012, 10:20:06 am »
So fuck the person that came up with the whole concept and put it to film? Mental.
Fuck the person who singlehandely ruining the originals by throwing more and more digital santorum at them to and end only he knows. To borrow a phrase - Every single 'enhanced' version is worse than the last. You've got more chance of defending Hodgson than episodes I-III

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2012, 10:34:53 am »
Fuck the person who singlehandely ruining the originals by throwing more and more digital santorum at them to and end only he knows. To borrow a phrase - Every single 'enhanced' version is worse than the last. You've got more chance of defending Hodgson than episodes I-III

Well as I said, I liked them. Each to their own, I suppose. They compare favourably to many other 'Science Fiction' films simply because they stick fairly closely to the books. A lot of 'Science Fiction' has been taken from top books and destroyed by idiot writers and directors that just didn't get the point. Apart from classics like Alien and Bladerunner there aren't that many top Science Fiction films out there.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2012, 10:41:44 am »
I think Episode I-III are a bit harshly treated. Personally when they came out at the cinema I thought they were crap, and pretty boring for the most part. I got the blu-ray box set for Christmas and re-watched them though, and actually enjoyed them. Revenge of the Sith in particular is really good, much better than Return of the Jedi.

I absolutely hate 3D and I won't be going to see any of them in that form, but I don't think they're as bad as a lot of people make out. Jar Jar Binks can fuck off though.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2012, 11:54:44 am »
Well as I said, I liked them. Each to their own, I suppose. They compare favourably to many other 'Science Fiction' films simply because they stick fairly closely to the books. A lot of 'Science Fiction' has been taken from top books and destroyed by idiot writers and directors that just didn't get the point. Apart from classics like Alien and Bladerunner there aren't that many top Science Fiction films out there.
Sorry Andy, I haven't read the prequel books. Then again, i'll take your word that they are close to the books, so the books must be utter fucking drivel, because that's all these were. I'm not even going to talk about nerdy differences between them and the originals. Simple fact of the matter is a) Terribly cast, b) Terribly acted, c) terribly directed, d) they look like utter shit.

3 of the worst films ever fucking made by a long stretch. Yeah, there's not many "great" sci fi films around, but the prequels are at the bottom of the list, they really are. I'm struggling to think of films that i think are worse. Lost in space with joey from friends maybe, but it's close.... hmmm. Whereas at the top of the list, the 3 original theatrical releases of star wars, empire and jedi are all still great, even if jedi is the worst of the 3 it still massively outshines anything from the prequels.

But you are right in one thing, each to their own mate ;D
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2012, 12:08:46 pm »
Sorry Andy, I haven't read the prequel books. Then again, i'll take your word that they are close to the books, so the books must be utter fucking drivel, because that's all these were. I'm not even going to talk about nerdy differences between them and the originals. Simple fact of the matter is a) Terribly cast, b) Terribly acted, c) terribly directed, d) they look like utter shit.

3 of the worst films ever fucking made by a long stretch. Yeah, there's not many "great" sci fi films around, but the prequels are at the bottom of the list, they really are. I'm struggling to think of films that i think are worse. Lost in space with joey from friends maybe, but it's close.... hmmm. Whereas at the top of the list, the 3 original theatrical releases of star wars, empire and jedi are all still great, even if jedi is the worst of the 3 it still massively outshines anything from the prequels.

But you are right in one thing, each to their own mate ;D


Science Fiction.

NOT Sci Fi.

:)
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Offline SP

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2012, 12:16:56 pm »
Well as I said, I liked them. Each to their own, I suppose. They compare favourably to many other 'Science Fiction' films simply because they stick fairly closely to the books. A lot of 'Science Fiction' has been taken from top books and destroyed by idiot writers and directors that just didn't get the point. Apart from classics like Alien and Bladerunner there aren't that many top Science Fiction films out there.

And that is the problem. Sticking close to the books is an issue when you have tedious exposition, woodenly acted. Science Fiction is a peculiar beast where the best written fiction relies on ideas and explanation that clunk when they transfer to film. The best science fiction transfers from book to film tend to be very loose adaptations. Often the most riveting part of a science fiction novel is completely unfilmable. Take the Culture novels - I love the little asides where you may get a page or two of the history of another culture. That just does not work on film. The idea, concepts, special effects and plotting of the prequel trilogy may be fine. But the dialogue is wooden, the acting is ropey, and just as a piece of cinema it is dull.

Also by filming a prequel where we already know which characters survive, it robs most of the tension that could have been generated. If he wanted to make a prequel trilogy, it would have been far better to focus on a new set of characters, and have Anakin as a subplot.

The prequel series reminds me of late Heinlein. Where his creativity was shot and he stopped writing original fiction. Instead, he cannibalised his own canon, knitting together disparate works into a unified universe. The prequels just attempt to shoe horn in references to the original 3 films in the most glaring ham-fisted manner. And of course the clunky need to explain everything was just horrible. Not everything needs to be explained. As long as your fictional universe follows its own internal logic, there is no need for an explanation of the force.

Offline SP

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2012, 12:18:25 pm »

Science Fiction.

NOT Sci Fi.

:)

Don't be so precious. Most Star Wars books are definitely SciFi - with all the pejorative connotations.

You can't beat the elegant simplicity of a Target novelisation.

Offline Red Viper

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2012, 12:41:35 pm »
Revenge of the Sith in particular is really good, much better than Return of the Jedi.


What? Which part of it was better? Was it the bit where they were sitting on a couch and talking? Or that other bit where they were sitting on a couch and talking? Or was it the 45 minute lightsabre fight at the end?

I know Jedi was the weakest of the originals, but it's still a very good film in it's own right, and it shits all over the prequels.

Offline zero zero

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2012, 01:01:34 pm »
As has been said above I'll have to take your word for it on how true to the books they are as I'll never read them. If the gaping plot holes and tedious storyline have been faithfully reproduced, as you say, you can judge them by that criteria. You have however brought a point that always leaves be a little bewildered. In an advertising campaign the minimum expectation is that you manage to deliver a consistent message in each media. Each media, be it TV, radio or print have their own strengths and limitations. The nature of each and the differences in the way they are consumed dictates their forms. In this case books are books, films are films and really it's a blind alley whether the two forms are alike.

These films should be judged first and foremost on their success as a piece of cinematography.

They fail in every conceivable way that they could fail. No attempt to develop the characters leaving us unengaged with the plot. Sterile sets and performances to match. Visually there's so much going on in some scenes it's like being stuck in a techno-blizzard, with the audience detached until the white noise of the effects dies down and we get a chance to get our bearings again.

Ultimately they are such poor attempts at story telling that you see them for what they are: Millions of man-hours wasted as an excuse to crank up the merchandising wagon, video games, etc. Lucas is treating his audience with contempt churning out that vacuous dross.

So, once again I'll say "Fuck you, George Lucas".

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2012, 01:03:47 pm »
And George Lucas who has made like a Trillion dollars still sells advertising rights to the likes of PC World and Vodafone, while at the same time flogging the 3D films!
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2012, 01:08:32 pm »
And George Lucas who has made like a Trillion dollars still sells advertising rights to the likes of PC World and Vodafone, while at the same time flogging the 3D films!

He's still a credible film maker though, honest.

Im sure it's only a matter of time before Scorsese goes back and digitally remasters Travis Bickle's mohawk or Woody Allen re-releases Annie Hall in 3-D.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2012, 01:18:47 pm »
As the novels* are adaptions of the films rather than the other way round, they should follow closely.

*of the six films, obviously, not the EU stuff

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2012, 01:23:21 pm »
utter bollocks.

star wars rocked my world aged 7 but there's really very little to say after the towering excellence of empire.

fuck the ewoks and double fuck jar jar fucking binks.  he's a bell end.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2012, 01:34:31 pm »
If you're going to force yourself to watch the prequels, at least watch them with Rifftrax.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2012, 01:45:58 pm »

Science Fiction.

NOT Sci Fi.

:)
Really andy? That's it, that's your whole comeback? ;D Right then, fill me in on all the science of the star war prequel universe, if you're going to be all precious about it.

Really, it should just be called "space fiction" as there's no science in it whatsoever.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2012, 01:54:41 pm »
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2012, 02:35:12 pm »
Really andy? That's it, that's your whole comeback? ;D Right then, fill me in on all the science of the star war prequel universe, if you're going to be all precious about it.

Really, it should just be called "space fiction" as there's no science in it whatsoever.

;D

If you're really into the idea of reading something of the Star Wars Universe then Splinter of the Minds Eye (Alan Dean Foster - same bloke that wrote alien from the Bannon script) is a good place to start. Also Han Solo at Stars End and Han Solo's Revenge by Brian Daley also capture the mood very well. All three written many moons ago.

The modern stuff isn't half bad either, but it all suffers because none of it has been explored anywhere near enough.

What I mean by that is take Star Trek - the original and the novlettes that got inspired from it, the reboot and then the new series like The Next Generation, DS9, Voyager and the rest and you have a consistant Universe that has expanded way beyond the original ideas and ideals.

Star Wars due to it's (Mainly) film form is the other way around - rather than (like Star Trek could) using new material to dissect earlier material (Which brings nostalgia) it also moves on to create more concrete and better fiction to self-fulfil - because of the many series and thousands of episodes then every little bit of it can be visited, revisited and reworked into a working whole. Star Wars has a fixed small set of input data which just gets picked apart and rethought and argued about and picked apart. Because there is so very little of it the detail is the key. When the new films came along - unlike Star Trek which used 500 episodes to really go to town with it - you get 6 hours where they had to try and jam in as much as they can to make new young fans happy, that would make the casual Science Fiction fan happy and would make die hard Star Wars fans that had been waiting decades for THE NEW FILMS To come along. On top of that you had the marketing department involved, the media departments involved and billions of ideas from tens of thousands of websites.

Whatever he had done it would have been panned. Because Star Wars is such a film so deeply embedded in the Western Ideals after all those decades - whatever could have been seen in the Minds Eye is always going to be crap compared to whatever had been produced. He was on a hiding to nothing. As people have said maybe he should have just said "Fuck all of you. Whatever I do you're going to call me a c*nt - so fuck off" and not made anything else ever.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 02:36:57 pm by Andy @ Allerton »
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2012, 03:38:40 pm »
Whatever he had done it would have been panned.
If that statement were true the logical conclusion to be drawn is that Lucas cynically cashed in.

The truth is that the films are panned because they are crap.

Quote
If you're really into the idea of reading something of the Star Wars Universe then Splinter of the Minds Eye (Alan Dean Foster - same bloke that wrote alien from the Bannon script) is a good place to start. Also Han Solo at Stars End and Han Solo's Revenge by Brian Daley also capture the mood very well. All three written many moons ago.
That takes me back, I had all three back in my youth. I'm quite disconcerted now.



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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2012, 03:46:39 pm »
I don't think whatever he did it would be crap, I've no doubt that he would have messed something about the continuity up because he was working backwards, but I'm sure he could have made a better trilogy than what we got.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2012, 03:51:59 pm »
If that statement were true the logical conclusion to be drawn is that Lucas cynically cashed in.

The truth is that the films are panned because they are crap.
That takes me back, I had all three back in my youth. I'm quite disconcerted now.



;)

I have no doubt that he cashed in. But some of what some people may think of as crap was pandering to requests.

Inclusion of the Jawa's going "Untini!" the Tuscan Raiders doing their shootin' tootin', the Bantha's, the Millenium Falcons type Corrillian traders docked, Jabba the Hutt, tatooine, R2D2, C3PO and the rest just hadn't any need to be there - but fanboys and websites were going mental for them.

Maybe if he'd just gone off and scripted something completely different and new then people would have been happy.

Nah.


They wouldn't have been. The interesting thing with the films was that in the Cinema first time of viewing I wasn't over the moon - but like the originals they all grow on you.


Can't wait to see what the last three will look like - it was always a 9 film set.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2012, 03:59:17 pm »
Can't wait to see what the last three will look like - it was always a 9 film set.

Bollocks it was always. It was one film that Lucas cashed in on and expanded the mythology on the hoof, whilst making claims about wide planning to the press.

If there was any real planning, they would not have made up the I am your father moment after the release of the first film. The difference between the original and the prequel films is that Lucas had not bought into his own hype at the start. In the prequels, no one reined in Lucas as his ego had mushroomed on the success of the films.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2012, 04:11:25 pm »
Bollocks it was always. It was one film that Lucas cashed in on and expanded the mythology on the hoof, whilst making claims about wide planning to the press.

If there was any real planning, they would not have made up the I am your father moment after the release of the first film. The difference between the original and the prequel films is that Lucas had not bought into his own hype at the start. In the prequels, no one reined in Lucas as his ego had mushroomed on the success of the films.

In 1979, director George Lucas said in an interview on the set of The Empire Strikes Back, "The first script was one of six original stories I had written in the form of two trilogies. After the success of Star Wars, I added another trilogy. So now there are nine stories. The original two trilogies were conceived of as six films of which the first film was number four." Lucas backed this up with a 1980 interview with the L.A. Reader, stating "Star Wars is really three trilogies, nine films... it won't be finished for probably another 20 years."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sequel_trilogy
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2012, 04:12:15 pm »
I have no doubt that he cashed in. But some of what some people may think of as crap was pandering to requests.
Then he lacks integrity. As you pointed out earlier, this is his baby. His universe. Who cares what a bunch of geeks think they know. These are just bad films with no merit. Or, as I see them; effective merchandising and tie-in generators.

The plot is poor. The characters are unmemorable. The performances are wooden. etc, etc.

What exactly is there about the films that has grown on you?


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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2012, 04:12:58 pm »
In 1979, director George Lucas said in an interview on the set of The Empire Strikes Back, "The first script was one of six original stories I had written in the form of two trilogies. After the success of Star Wars, I added another trilogy. So now there are nine stories. The original two trilogies were conceived of as six films of which the first film was number four." Lucas backed this up with a 1980 interview with the L.A. Reader, stating "Star Wars is really three trilogies, nine films... it won't be finished for probably another 20 years."

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sequel_trilogy

Lucas has made heaps of contradictory claims. I believe that the technical term is that he is full of shit.