Topic: Can a Liverpool supporter be a Tory/right wing?

[BoRed]

no but they were fine with a john fucking McDonnell banner on the kop earlier this season.

As far as I know, that banner never made it into the ground, and quite rightly so.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I do find it hard to reconcile that a Tory can support Liverpool.  The tories wanted to destroy our city.  Remember "managed decline" ?   How can any Liverpool fan have an allegiance with a political party that wanted to destroy Liverpool?  How?  I just can't get my head around that.

Tories are selfish gobshites.  Nothing more and nothing less.

to be fair that was more thatcher than the Tories, and you had heseltine who actually gave a fuck about people north of the m25 and I wouldn't put him in anywhere near the same bracket as that woman.

Think it's more shades of blue/red - I know Tories who are sound who basically disagree with me on a few things but generally ok (the centre right ones) and there are those who are more the Darwinian type of Tory who can be insufferable. Likewise with labour you have the sane ones and the extreme ones, and I wouldn't hold the views of someone like ken livingstone against the average Liverpool fan.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

As far as I know, that banner never made it into the ground, and quite rightly so.

i thought it did, then again it was by one of the top people from SOS who thought that was a good idea

[Xabi Gerrard]

Some very illiberal voices in this thread. "If you dont think the same way I do you shouldn't be allowed to support my football club". Ironically most of the people saying this probably consider themselves amongst the most liberal people around.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Some very illiberal voices in this thread. "If you dont think the same way I do you shouldn't be allowed to support my football club". Ironically most of the people saying this probably consider themselves amongst the most liberal people around.

indeed, the hypocrisy and idiocy is quite funny

[CornerFlag]

Too many confusing the city with the team too.

[Redcap]

Not that it means anything, but I'm a firm leftie and I'm definitely more attracted to Liverpool because it historically shares my values.

For the same reason I support Liverpool, I would find it difficult to support, for example, Real Madrid.

But I don't think most football clubs are overtly particularly political these days, like they might have been once upon a time.

[Redman0151]

Some very illiberal voices in this thread. "If you dont think the same way I do you shouldn't be allowed to support my football club". Ironically most of the people saying this probably consider themselves amongst the most liberal people around.

You're describing the Paradox of Tollerance.

Karl Popper says it best "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."



Liverpool has a culture and a special way of doing things. It should be defended and protected lest we become no different than Chelsea or any of the other shite clubs around. Liverpool is a special place, and Torys can fuck off

[Lush is the best medicine...]

You're describing the Paradox of Tollerance.

Karl Popper says it best "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

no you just can't handle someone supporting the same team having different political leanings to your own which you feel make you superior.

And there are loads of scouse Tories, born and bred in the city who have as much claim to supporting the team as you, if not more. Just because the majority aren't Tories doesn't mean that Tories can't support the team, showing yourself up as an ignorant tosser here.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Some very illiberal voices in this thread. "If you dont think the same way I do you shouldn't be allowed to support my football club". Ironically most of the people saying this probably consider themselves amongst the most liberal people around.

So if you disagree with someones stance then you should keep your gob shut? Any right of comment or any right of dissent or disagreement is forbidden in your world?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

no you just can't handle someone supporting the same team having different political leanings to your own which you feel make you superior.

And there are loads of scouse Tories, born and bred in the city who have as much claim to supporting the team as you, if not more. Just because the majority aren't Tories doesn't mean that Tories can't support the team, showing yourself up as an ignorant tosser here.

"if not more" - how do you work that out?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

"if not more" - how do you work that out?

people who have been around longer, going to games longer?

[Redman0151]

no you just can't handle someone supporting the same team having different political leanings to your own which you feel make you superior.

And there are loads of scouse Tories, born and bred in the city who have as much claim to supporting the team as you, if not more. Just because the majority aren't Tories doesn't mean that Tories can't support the team, showing yourself up as an ignorant tosser here.

I couldn't give a shite what you think frankly.

It's a shame they got rid of the ignore function, because it means I still have to see your shite posts every time I open this sub-forum. You're an absolute no mark who spends his days attacking the left, defending the Torys and has now gone as far as claiming he's closer to the Torys than Labour.

If you think it makes me an ignorant tosser, sound. I'll be happy to be at odds with gobshites like you. Keep defending the Torys at every turn whilst they hit Merseyside with the harshest cuts in the country. I have no doubt there's other dickheads like you out there, make no mistake, idiots who will vote or defend Tory on Merseyside whilst they continue to treat us like dirt and rip away our public services and slash our budgets.

[BoRed]

Some very illiberal voices in this thread. "If you dont think the same way I do you shouldn't be allowed to support my football club". Ironically most of the people saying this probably consider themselves amongst the most liberal people around.

There's nothing illiberal with voicing an opinion. No one is denying anyone else an opinion. Would you be saying the same if the original question was "Can a Liverpool supporter be a S*n reader?"

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I couldn't give a shite what you think frankly.

It's a shame they got rid of the ignore function, because it means I still have to see your shite posts every time I open this sub-forum. You're an absolute no mark who spends his days attacking the left, defending the Torys and has now gone as far as claiming he's closer to the Torys than Labour.

If you think it makes me an ignorant tosser, sound. I'll be happy to be at odds with gobshites like you. Keep defending the Torys at every turn whilst they hit Merseyside with the harshest cuts in the country. I have no doubt there's other dickheads like you out there, make no mistake, idiots who will vote or defend Tory on Merseyside whilst they continue to treat us like dirt and rip away our public services and slash our budgets.

get out of your safe space and spend some time with people who disagree with your world view and you might find you grow a bit and understand things a bit better, like how not all Tory voters are the scum of the earth and not all labour voters are good people.

As for me being an absolute no mark, you are a little student who has no real world experience but thinks he knows everything. Grow up little boy, if you don't then when you get in the real world you'll find you won't survive long and you'll be an unhappy little man angry at why the world doesn't see things the way you do.

As for me attacking the left I attack the hard left who are the greatest asset the hard right Tories have. And you are supporting those people whereas I'd rather the centrists/Centre left took charge as they are the ones who can enable change, not the current inept dickheads who you are cheerleading for.

But the likes of me are clearly the problem, not some wet behind the ears student who has the solutions...

[Lush is the best medicine...]

There's nothing illiberal with voicing an opinion. No one is denying anyone else an opinion. Would you be saying the same if the original question was "Can a Liverpool supporter be a S*n reader?"

well you can can't you? Not that I like that but there probably are a decent number who do sadly (and even worse a larger number of non Liverpool fans who do)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

get out of your safe space and spend some time with people who disagree with your world view and you might find you grow a bit and understand things a bit better, like how not all Tory voters are the scum of the earth and not all labour voters are good people.

As for me being an absolute no mark, you are a little student who has no real world experience but thinks he knows everything. Grow up little boy, if you don't then when you get in the real world you'll find you won't survive long and you'll be an unhappy little man angry at why the world doesn't see things the way you do.

As for me attacking the left I attack the hard left who are the greatest asset the hard right Tories have. And you are supporting those people whereas I'd rather the centrists/Centre left took charge as they are the ones who can enable change, not the current inept dickheads who you are cheerleading for.

But the likes of me are clearly the problem, not some wet behind the ears student who has the solutions...

People who vote Tory are a direct problem to the people of Liverpool. See what the Tories have done to the City since they have been in power for instance. See what they've done to the NHS, Police, Fire Service, Doctors, Nurses, Hospitals, Schools, Libraries, Roads and the list goes on and on.

It's a fact that the people of Liverpool have suffered more than Tory voting areas down South (Look it up, the evidence is easily found) - so if you vote Tory then you are directly voting against the interests of the City of Liverpool and the inhabitants of Liverpool.

I was in Liverpool in the 80s and 90s and I saw what was done to the place under the Tories and yet you STILL had scousers voting Tory.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Jeez that escalated quickly didn't it! 

You're describing the Paradox of Tollerance.

Karl Popper says it best "Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Liverpool has a culture and a special way of doing things. It should be defended and protected lest we become no different than Chelsea or any of the other shite clubs around. Liverpool is a special place, and Torys can fuck off

You see, there were Tories in Liverpool before you were born, Tories in Liverpool when you were a baby, Tories in Liverpool when you were a child, Tories in Liverpool when you were a teenager and Tories in Liverpool when you were an adult. What I take issue with is when one person, in this case you, Crosby Wych from the internet, thinks that all those people should "fuck off" out of Liverpool because they think differently to you! That's what I find illiberal. Love them or hate them, they're as much part of Liverpool as you are.

So if you disagree with someones stance then you should keep your gob shut? Any right of comment or any right of dissent or disagreement is forbidden in your world?

Not sure how on earth you jumped to the conclusion that I think anyone should keep their gob shut. Me pointing out the hypocrisy of people who consider themselves liberal acting so illiberally does not equal me thinking people should keep their gob shut.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I was in Liverpool in the 80s and 90s and I saw what was done to the place under the Tories and yet you STILL had scousers voting Tory.

then why, do you think they are all incredibly stupid or they have some other reasons, one from the 80s being militant putting a lot of people off labour?

[Cliff Bastin]

Liverpool is a unique place, I truly believe that.  The vast majority of scousers are socialists. 

No offence to Cliff Bastin but please don't try and teach us about our history.  Yes the club was founded by a conservative but that was at a time when Labour was very much in it's infancy as a political party, and also a time when workers tended to vote who their employers told them too.

Politics have changed so much since that time.

I do find it hard to reconcile that a Tory can support Liverpool.  The tories wanted to destroy our city.  Remember "managed decline" ?   How can any Liverpool fan have an allegiance with a political party that wanted to destroy Liverpool?  How?  I just can't get my head around that.

Tories are selfish gobshites.  Nothing more and nothing less.

Liverpool FC is a football club, it is not a political party. People from vast swathes of views support Liverpool or Man utd or Arsenal.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

then why, do you think they are all incredibly stupid or they have some other reasons, one from the 80s being militant putting a lot of people off labour?

I'm never sure. I agree with you in that with Brexit and Tories and people I don't agree with, I'll engage with them and ask them their reasons, but their reasons seem muddled and they tend to get angry when you give them actual facts.

It usually boils down to selfishness (If they vote Tory) or racism/xenophobia (If they vote Brexit).

I'm not saying everyone that votes Labour is nice or perfect (They aren't).

Even people I know that vote Labour are still pissed off about the Militant shite that went on and robbed millions from the City!

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I'm never sure. I agree with you in that with Brexit and Tories and people I don't agree with, I'll engage with them and ask them their reasons, but their reasons seem muddled and they tend to get angry when you give them actual facts.

It usually boils down to selfishness (If they vote Tory) or racism/xenophobia (If they vote Brexit).

I'm not saying everyone that votes Labour is nice or perfect (They aren't).

Even people I know that vote Labour are still pissed off about the Militant shite that went on and robbed millions from the City!

if you think the Tories are the better for the economy (which I have a bit more faith in them on that matter than the current labour lot) and you run a small business employing 10 people how is it selfish to vote for the Tories when you are thinking about your business and employees?

Even people I know that vote Labour are still pissed off about the Militant shite that went on and robbed millions from the City!

I wouldn't be surprised if militant gets brought up soon by the Tories

[Andy @ Allerton!]

if you think the Tories are the better for the economy (which I have a bit more faith in them on that matter than the current labour lot) and you run a small business employing 10 people how is it selfish to vote for the Tories when you are thinking about your business and employees?

How are the Tories better off with the economy? The deficit has more than doubled. The pound is worth 20% less now than when they took ever and GDP has plummeted.

[Red Beret]

I think it's more a question of why Scousers might vote Tory rather than why people down south, who know the history of Liverpool and LFC, vote Tory. 

Where do you want it to end?  Protests against the club signing players who vote Tory?

[cloggypop]

 Grow up little boy, if you don't then when you get in the real world you'll find you won't survive long and you'll be an unhappy little man angry at why the world doesn't see things the way you do.

You don't exactly come across as a particularly happy man on here yourself.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

How are the Tories better off with the economy? The deficit has more than doubled. The pound is worth 20% less now than when they took ever and GDP has plummeted.

the pound has dropped due to brexit (whilst the vote was a Tory decision the outcome wasn't), and of course ed Miliband apologising for labours role in the economic crash (which is more likely to be in people's minds than the ERM crash, which the Tories never accept responsibility for unlike ed for what happened on their watch)

You don't exactly come across as a particularly happy man on here yourself.

im unhappy now you've pointed that out

[kesey]

Save your energy.

If he / she wants to .

Yes !

[Andy @ Allerton!]

the pound has dropped due to brexit (whilst the vote was a Tory decision the outcome wasn't), and of course ed Miliband apologising for labours role in the economic crash (which is more likely to be in people's minds than the ERM crash, which the Tories never accept responsibility for unlike ed for what happened on their watch)
im unhappy now you've pointed that out

You don't think Brexit was largely Tory and Pro-Tory faction led?

Ooooo... Kkkk...

[oldfordie]

You really have to know their reasons for voting Tory before you pass judgement.
We have plenty of people on here who refused to vote Labour because of Iraq,  shall we tear them apart as well, what about the poor and the sick, dont they care.
Labour has to rid itself of the 1970s image, nobody wants to return to those day and there will be plenty of people who will fear Corbyn for this reason alone.
So the obvious question has to be asked before passing judgement, Why.

[Commie Bobbie]

Not that it means anything, but I'm a firm leftie and I'm definitely more attracted to Liverpool because it historically shares my values.

For the same reason I support Liverpool, I would find it difficult to support, for example, Real Madrid.

But I don't think most football clubs are overtly particularly political these days, like they might have been once upon a time.

Sums up my thoughts on the matter. The fact that I've supported them for over 30 years solidifies it.

I think it's more a question of why Scousers might vote Tory rather than why people down south, who know the history of Liverpool and LFC, vote Tory. 

Where do you want it to end?  Protests against the club signing players who vote Tory?

If their name is Jonathan Walters...

[Lush is the best medicine...]

If their name is Jonathan Walters...

hes from the Wirral isn't he?

You don't think Brexit was largely Tory and Pro-Tory faction led?

Ooooo... Kkkk...

and you don't think the labour leader didn't want that, which was why he couldn't be arsed doing his job?

[DutchRed]

The easy answer is: yes obviously, because there's idiots everywhere.


The more difficult answer is: yes, because lots of people (and especially those on the conservative side) do not understand themselves as political. They likely wouldn't understand the question, or the discrepancy of it. Being a Liverpool fan is one thing they do, it has nothing to do with how they vote. Others simply lack the 'thoroughness' - another example, how many Liverpool fans do you know that line Murdoch's pockets by having Sky, or buying one of his papers?

Then we have the 'modern fans'. They know little about the club, and less about the city. They probably like the success of the club, or maybe they have some weak connection because someone else they know supports us. They could well be Tories, or they could not, but it is not linked to the club or the city.

Liverpool FC itself was very keen to link up with Sky for creating the Premiership. And whilst Shankly may have been an ardent socialist, his chairman and his captain were both Tories. These days Anfield is littered with screens showing Murdoch TV and host to a team playing in Murdoch's league, doing so being bankrolled by a bank that makes loads of money from exploiting people in developing countries who don't have much for starters.

Sure you'll do well to spot Tories on the Kop, but whether you like it or not there will be loads of them elsewhere in the ground. Anfield's home constituency used to be a Tory seat. Sure, key figures and a majority of the support will be left-wing, but don't fool yourself into thinking of LFC as a vast left-wing bastion. It simply isn't.

[So… Howard Philips]

I've a left wing Irish Republican Evertonian mate who is utterly convinced and will be to his dying day that Liverpool is a Protestant, Unionist club and Shankly was part of an Orange conspiracy. Seriously.

Politics and football don't mix and shouldn't mix.

This thread seems to be encouraging a Celtic/Rangers idea of cultural exclusion.

[hide5seek]

Bulgaria. I am too young to speak from experience about communism so I will just leave it aside, but even after the democratic changes when the reformed socialistic pary governs, an inevitable disaster is looming down the road. This talk of sensible socialism - I have never seen it in my life so I will just assume its possible somewhere else but not here.

Didn't the socialist party get kicked out in 2014? UK government is a right wing government and we had over a million using food banks and plenty of people having to decide to eat or heat. Don't think right wing governments are some sort of panacea, just look at USofA, very much on the right and very much fucked up.

[child-in-time]

Didn't the socialist party get kicked out in 2014? UK government is a right wing government and we had over a million using food banks and plenty of people having to decide to eat or heat. Don't think right wing governments are some sort of panacea, just look at USofA, very much on the right and very much fucked up.

They are no longer in power, thats true. But it took them over 400 days of street protests to resign. In fact they were forced to resign in each of their terms. That tells you all I think.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I've a left wing Irish Republican Evertonian mate who is utterly convinced and will be to his dying day that Liverpool is a Protestant, Unionist club and Shankly was part of an Orange conspiracy. Seriously.

Politics and football don't mix and shouldn't mix.

This thread seems to be encouraging a Celtic/Rangers idea of cultural exclusion.

i think some on this thread would love a return to the days of militant

[Titi Camara]

Think this has run its course.  As a reminder, personal abuse won't be tolerated on this boards. Thanks

[KiNki]

For those suggesting that politics was learnt later in life sorry but no.  You might learn about names of politicians, might understand how laws/power is wielded, but you feel it very early on in life. From Maggie thatcher milk snatcher, to your family struggling to pay the bills, put a roof over your head, to run down areas not being taken care of, or alternatively you are born with a silver spoon and someone wiping your arse, and you are accustomed to a life of priveledge and stepping on people.  And something between the two extremes.

Likewise for those of us in the city who went the games, stood on the kop, we learnt more than just the words of songs, the kop was a leveller, didn't matter if you were rich, poor, old, young, male female, we were one, a collective spirit and force.

There was no billy big bollocks telling you this is how it's done, if anyone tried they will have got slapped down, it was simply understood from infancy you are no more important than the next man, and no less.

It's the politics of the Kop and it was learnt from going the game, absorbed by wools wanting to absorb everything Liverpool, and ignored by tarquins who picked the club like they pick a whore in a brothel.

A true koppite is a socialist.

If you're not - your not a true koppite ano your opinion is worth next to naught to me.