Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 832338 times)

Offline peachybum

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9480 on: April 26, 2017, 03:26:16 pm »
Are FSG willing to push us onto the next level? Or is their risk averse approach going to hold us back?

What does that mean? Throw loads of money at the first team i presume.

Spurs have moved onto the next level without chucking stupid money about and using a sensible business model. We get to the next level by making good decisions not spending X amount or taking silly risks. And i'm sure they're trying to make good decisions. Whether or not their decisions work out time will tell. But the hiring of Klopp, the new main stand, our transfer dealings recently and plans for the new training ground etc all look like good decisions to me. Don't see anything there that's actually holding us back.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9481 on: April 26, 2017, 03:27:51 pm »
You'd be right and also they will have to pay well over the odds for one or two players, on account of no champions league football on year one (if that happens).

I do think for some players the CL year one issue should not be a factor: if you aren't interested in joining one of the biggest clubs in the World under Klopp, then a) maybe we don't you b) you've only got a very small handful of clubs you can join and maybe they don't want you.

My problem with the CL obsession at the moment is the importance the club and Klopp himself has made about getting into it. We have had a few interviews where Klopp has said it wont be a success if we cannot get top four, rather than coming out and saying he is building for the future.

He has deliberately set himself up for pressure here and I cannot believe that if it was so important then why would you take a gamble with so many gaps in the squad? He has almost made this season a defining one but at the same time taken huge risks.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9482 on: April 26, 2017, 03:34:03 pm »
My problem with the CL obsession at the moment is the importance the club and Klopp himself has made about getting into it. We have had a few interviews where Klopp has said it wont be a success if we cannot get top four, rather than coming out and saying he is building for the future.

He has deliberately set himself up for pressure here and I cannot believe that if it was so important then why would you take a gamble with so many gaps in the squad? He has almost made this season a defining one but at the same time taken huge risks.

Yes I see what you're saying. It does feel like huge risks doesn't it. I mean he must have known he didn't rate Moreno and we all knew Sturridge, Henderson and Lalllana were players with various tendencies to injury. Any analysis of this season from a planning stage would have to conclude the staff thought Klavan, Milner and Lovren were good enough to see us win points at the top end of the table. If we are to be 5th, that would seem a bad call. If we squeak 4th, they will have got away with it.
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Offline Jookie

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9483 on: April 26, 2017, 03:44:50 pm »
What does that mean? Throw loads of money at the first team i presume.


Not really. They need to spend more money than they have the last 3 windows though. With the caveat that the lack of net spend may have been Klopp's decision.

The sporting and operational structures they have put in place over the last 12 months can be judged better in 12-24 months time. As such FSG and their strategic plan for the club can be better judged, and whether there appointments have led us to 'the next level' in sporting terms.

The Main Stand has been a good start in us having a stadium that reflects the global support the club holds. I really want to see the ARE extension get done. Increase capacity to nearly 60k but also provide a significant increase in non-corporate tickets.

There's numerous things that need to be done to take us to the next level. It's not all necessarily about lashing loads of transfer fees about.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9484 on: April 26, 2017, 04:40:16 pm »
What does that mean? Throw loads of money at the first team i presume.

Spurs have moved onto the next level without chucking stupid money about and using a sensible business model. We get to the next level by making good decisions not spending X amount or taking silly risks. And i'm sure they're trying to make good decisions. Whether or not their decisions work out time will tell. But the hiring of Klopp, the new main stand, our transfer dealings recently and plans for the new training ground etc all look like good decisions to me. Don't see anything there that's actually holding us back.

Have they? They were an embarassment in Europe, have won no trophies and ultimately have capitalised with other teams being in transition.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9485 on: April 26, 2017, 04:47:02 pm »
Have they? They were an embarassment in Europe, have won no trophies and ultimately have capitalised with other teams being in transition.

Oh come off it. They're consistently finishing in the top five despite having about half of the wage budget of the five top teams. And bar a complete collapse last season they'd be on course to reach two points per game two seasons running (and second place), which people on here are acting like is the holy grail for us!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 04:48:49 pm by LallanaInPyjamas »

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9486 on: April 26, 2017, 04:56:41 pm »
Oh come off it. They're consistently finishing in the top five despite having about half of the wage budget of the five top teams. And bar a complete collapse last season they'd be on course to reach two points per game two seasons running (and second place), which people on here are acting like is the holy grail for us!

I never disputed the fact they're overachieving. Moving onto the next level? Dubious. Finished 3rd last season on 71 points. How did they fare in Europe this season? I'd expect our ambitions to be greater than that of spurs. I'm sure that's what we sell to potential signings i.e. we want to be challenging for the major trophies. Well, let's act like it.

Offline whiteboots

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9487 on: April 26, 2017, 05:15:14 pm »
I never disputed the fact they're overachieving. Moving onto the next level? Dubious.

With their new stadium Spurs will overtake us for match day income. If they can keep qualifying for the CL they will overtake us for overall revenue in time too.

Not only do we need to improve, but we need to improve faster than our competition. It is in this regard that FSG may be failing.

Offline peachybum

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9488 on: April 26, 2017, 05:16:16 pm »
I never disputed the fact they're overachieving. Moving onto the next level? Dubious. Finished 3rd last season on 71 points. How did they fare in Europe this season? I'd expect our ambitions to be greater than that of spurs. I'm sure that's what we sell to potential signings i.e. we want to be challenging for the major trophies. Well, let's act like it.

We finished 8th last year. Over the last 7 years we average position is around 7th. Surely our next level is consistently challenging for top 4, which we just haven't been. That's where Spurs are.

Are we skipping that level and going from finishing around 7th ever year to winning titles?
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9489 on: April 26, 2017, 05:17:02 pm »
With their new stadium Spurs will overtake us for match day income. If they can keep qualifying for the CL they will overtake us for overall revenue in time too.

Not only do we need to improve, but we need to improve faster than our competition. It is in this regard that FSG may be failing.


Spurs will do well to keep qualifying in the CL. They will have an 800m debt to pay back first.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9490 on: April 26, 2017, 05:37:41 pm »
Spurs will do well to keep qualifying in the CL. They will have an 800m debt to pay back first.

They don't.
They have to service the debt.
Seems likely they can pull 100 million + a season from a stadium that size in London. (as Arsenal do)

I wish people would stop writing Spurs off. They're ambitious. They've got a good foundation on the playing side and a new stadium. Unless they've structured their debt really badly or they have a collapse on the playing side (buying badly for a few years or whatever) they'll be a top 4 threat for the foreseeable future

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9491 on: April 26, 2017, 05:49:15 pm »
They don't.
They have to service the debt.
Seems likely they can pull 100 million + a season from a stadium that size in London. (as Arsenal do)

I wish people would stop writing Spurs off. They're ambitious. They've got a good foundation on the playing side and a new stadium. Unless they've structured their debt really badly or they have a collapse on the playing side (buying badly for a few years or whatever) they'll be a top 4 threat for the foreseeable future
The changing of a stadium affected Arsenal hugely on the field, you're naïve if you think the same won't happen for Spurs.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9492 on: April 26, 2017, 05:52:58 pm »
I dunno why people worry about anyone else, we need to get our own house in order first.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9493 on: April 26, 2017, 06:03:20 pm »
They don't.
They have to service the debt.
Seems likely they can pull 100 million + a season from a stadium that size in London. (as Arsenal do)

I wish people would stop writing Spurs off. They're ambitious. They've got a good foundation on the playing side and a new stadium. Unless they've structured their debt really badly or they have a collapse on the playing side (buying badly for a few years or whatever) they'll be a top 4 threat for the foreseeable future

I don't really care about other clubs. I don't care about net spend and I don't care about wages either. I have found people's obsession with what other clubs spend and how this is a rigged game absolutely embarrassing. But I do find the praise of Spurs far too premature.

They don't have brilliant club and transfer structure. They managed to assemble a good team this time but it might not be long before the big clubs come hunting and they haven't shown an Atletico or Dortmund level of ability to just churn out amazing players.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9494 on: April 26, 2017, 06:23:48 pm »
The changing of a stadium affected Arsenal hugely on the field, you're naïve if you think the same won't happen for Spurs.

It's all just balance sheet dependent. Arsenal years ago and Spurs now aren't analogous - the league was in a different world financially
Its not axiomatic that a new stadium has X effect or Y effect.... it depends on the debt, how its financed and structured, how aggressive they are with spending during the time of the debt and, critically, how much money they're bringing in.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9495 on: April 26, 2017, 06:26:46 pm »
I don't really care about other clubs. I don't care about net spend and I don't care about wages either. I have found people's obsession with what other clubs spend and how this is a rigged game absolutely embarrassing.

Whether you care about it or not doesn't affect whether its real or not. A clubs financial position directly affects its on the field strength
Obsessing over other clubs obviously isn't a good idea - but the strength or weakness of our competitors directly affects our likelihood of winning things.
There's another post above yours stating we need to get our house in order first and that may well be true... but its also true that the strength of the top of the league dictates how easy or hard it is for us to do well. There are 4 CL spots - if there are 5 legit, perennial challengers and us that means 2 miss out every season. That's a far tougher environment to win leagues in and compete for the CL in than it was 10 years ago. 

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9496 on: April 26, 2017, 06:35:29 pm »
It's all just balance sheet dependent. Arsenal years ago and Spurs now aren't analogous - the league was in a different world financially
Its not axiomatic that a new stadium has X effect or Y effect.... it depends on the debt, how its financed and structured, how aggressive they are with spending during the time of the debt and, critically, how much money they're bringing in.
Just by playing 2 seasons away from home is going to affect them, regardless of how they pay of that huge debt. Fact is their stadium costs have doubled since they announced plans to leave 7 years ago, doesn't matter how they dress it up it's going to make a huge dent to the club financially. Which is Similar to what happened to Arsenal and the FA when the figures soared for Wembley and the Emirates.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9497 on: April 26, 2017, 06:41:13 pm »
Just by playing 2 seasons away from home is going to affect them, regardless of how they pay of that huge debt. Fact is their stadium costs have doubled since they announced plans to leave 7 years ago, doesn't matter how they dress it up it's going to make a huge dent to the club financially. Which is Similar to what happened to Arsenal and the FA when the figures soared for Wembley and the Emirates.
It will depend on whether they'll manage to keep a manager who built one of the best teams in the league and is competing with maybe the thinnest squad in Top 7. If they were going into repaying huge debt with the likes of A.VB or Harry Redknapp you could easily foresee major trouble for them. Similar to how Wenger maintained their level while being on a shoe string budget until they repaid the stadium.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9498 on: April 26, 2017, 06:50:58 pm »
Spurs will do well to keep qualifying in the CL. They will have an 800m debt to pay back first.

They are one of only a few clubs without any debt, they are building a stadium for a reported £800m, how much of that will be a debt in the form of a loan is guess work but it will not be £800m.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 06:53:15 pm by RK7 »

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9499 on: April 26, 2017, 06:53:32 pm »
They don't.
They have to service the debt.
Seems likely they can pull 100 million + a season from a stadium that size in London. (as Arsenal do)

I wish people would stop writing Spurs off. They're ambitious. They've got a good foundation on the playing side and a new stadium. Unless they've structured their debt really badly or they have a collapse on the playing side (buying badly for a few years or whatever) they'll be a top 4 threat for the foreseeable future

Or if Pochettino moves on to a bigger club and the new manager they bring in can't replicate his success then they'll struggle to maintain top 4. 

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9500 on: April 26, 2017, 06:55:24 pm »
How am I a "gem" ?

Eel, not you. He's hinted that he's Billy Zane several times, having dated Kelly Brook and all.
You're all too fucking serious, the lot of you. Relax, we don't really matter.

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Offline wellred82

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9501 on: April 26, 2017, 10:11:25 pm »
I wonder if we fail to finish top 4 if FSG will shoulder any blame. Start of the season we were title contenders. Had the chance to reinforce over new year, chose not too and have been drifting away ever since.

Now not only united can catch us but also Arsenal too. Beggars belief how fans think they are helping us sometimes.


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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9502 on: April 26, 2017, 10:13:28 pm »
I wonder if we fail to finish top 4 if FSG will shoulder any blame. Start of the season we were title contenders. Had the chance to reinforce over new year, chose not too and have been drifting away ever since.

Now not only united can catch us but also Arsenal too. Beggars belief how fans think they are helping us sometimes.


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Klopp would shoulder the blame as much as FSG. It was his choice to gamble with few players. I think he firmly believed he could get top four with this squad and then spend the two years worth of money in one window.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9503 on: April 26, 2017, 10:19:58 pm »
Klopp would shoulder the blame as much as FSG. It was his choice to gamble with few players. I think he firmly believed he could get top four with this squad and then spend the two years worth of money in one window.

He was only saying that as he was obviously left with no other choice. I.e big daddy Henry said this is all you have so deal with it. Klopp was hardly going to slate the state of the team 1/2 year into the job. Plus it would have damaged morale of the squad.

FSG should be thankful to Klopp he has managed to get us playing at times good football. Until they properly back him in terms of quality in recruitment we are going to forever be 2 steps forward 2 back.

As for 2 years worth of money in 1 window let's see what happens. After Kenny bought Carroll they seem reluctant to put their hand in their pocket for anything substantial. We could have cemented top 4 and who knows what more with a bit of investment in January. Poor business mindset.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9504 on: April 26, 2017, 10:23:30 pm »
He was only saying that as he was obviously left with no other choice. I.e big daddy Henry said this is all you have so deal with it. Klopp was hardly going to slate the state of the team 1/2 year into the job. Plus it would have damaged morale of the squad.

FSG should be thankful to Klopp he has managed to get us playing at times good football. Until they properly back him in terms of quality in recruitment we are going to forever be 2 steps forward 2 back.

As for 2 years worth of money in 1 window let's see what happens. After Kenny bought Carroll they seem reluctant to put their hand in their pocket for anything substantial. We could have cemented top 4 and who knows what more with a bit of investment in January. Poor business mindset.

Dont get me wrong I dont have much faith in FSG. All their briefings have stated how they will buy top players if they get CL football so they have added a caveat in there.

But last season Klopp made the decisions on who to bring in. All the informed journalists said he didnt want to compromise. I bet he wont make that mistake again. Come the summer, when he doesnt get his first choice players, he will most certainly compromise rather than wait a year to try to get players like Brandt that will most likely say no anyway.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9505 on: April 26, 2017, 10:34:40 pm »
With regard FSG when it comes to transfers that will always be open to discussion, what doesn't from my point of view is if they decided not to move forward with the Annie road stand, we have been eclipsed over the last 20 years by teams like Utd and Arsenal because we didn't build upon our success. We have permission for the stand to be built every game this season has been sold out, expanding the ground is a no brainier.

Offline Robinred

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9506 on: April 26, 2017, 10:50:24 pm »
Dont get me wrong I dont have much faith in FSG. All their briefings have stated how they will buy top players if they get CL football so they have added a caveat in there.

But last season Klopp made the decisions on who to bring in. All the informed journalists said he didnt want to compromise. I bet he wont make that mistake again. Come the summer, when he doesnt get his first choice players, he will most certainly compromise rather than wait a year to try to get players like Brandt that will most likely say no anyway.

Injuries haven't been kind.

But Spurs, Arsenal and United have suffered injuries to key players; to a lesser extent, Man City too. Only Chelsea have had a season with little injury disruption.

The glaring difference is squad depth.

And there you have a clear choice about why; either Klopp's hands were tied and he's covering for FSG's reluctance to spend in January.

Or it's down to him.

If it's down to him, then you have no option but to call it; he fucked up. It was either complacency or a major misjudgement.

The fact that an LFC top four finish is now on a knife edge is, given our early exit from the domestic cups, plus our lack of European involvement, unforgivable in my view.

Not that C.L qualification is the be all and end all. It's rather because the alternative is Europa League - which essentially deprives a team of any realistic chance of the Premiership title, because of the schedule, and the fact that the top transfer targets and their agents will make C.L qualification a key requirement to open negotiations.

Remember that virtually no players are now under the radar. All the top clubs are chasing the same targets.
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Offline Dodge City

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9507 on: April 26, 2017, 10:53:57 pm »
Apart from the BS regarding the Anfield Road extension - I am reasonably cool with FSG (all things considered). However, there's absolutely no doubt that Spurs are schooling us in showing how it can be done*

* Busting the Financial Dopers / Sugar Daddies

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9508 on: April 27, 2017, 08:09:36 am »
The ARE expansion is happening.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9509 on: April 27, 2017, 08:28:43 am »
Apart from the BS regarding the Anfield Road extension - I am reasonably cool with FSG (all things considered). However, there's absolutely no doubt that Spurs are schooling us in showing how it can be done*

* Busting the Financial Dopers / Sugar Daddies

Are they? What have they won exactly?

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9510 on: April 27, 2017, 08:31:40 am »
I thought Ayre came out a while ago and said its not a given that it will be happening?

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9511 on: April 27, 2017, 09:03:25 am »
The ARE expansion is happening.

Of course it is, why wouldn't it. Unless they lied to Broughton about delivering a 60k+ stadium?

The question is how many corporate or official tout travel partner tickets they'll try to include to get their no-interest/interest loan back as quickly as possible.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9512 on: April 27, 2017, 09:17:09 am »
Of course it is, why wouldn't it. Unless they lied to Broughton about delivering a 60k+ stadium?

The question is how many corporate or official tout travel partner tickets they'll try to include to get their no-interest/interest loan back as quickly as possible.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9513 on: April 27, 2017, 09:22:22 am »
Short term pain for long term gain? I
sure hope so. 8)

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9514 on: April 27, 2017, 09:36:45 am »
Of course it is, why wouldn't it. Unless they lied to Broughton about delivering a 60k+ stadium?

The question is how many corporate or official tout travel partner tickets they'll try to include to get their no-interest/interest loan back as quickly as possible.

To be fair, they will be delayed somewhat by having to provide an analysis of the wages for everyone involved down to the apprentice whose job it is to shift the dirt out of the way

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9515 on: April 27, 2017, 09:42:57 am »
You're just a half empty kind of guy, aren't ya?  ;)

I fully expect the Anfield Road end to be extended with all seats going towards general admission. I also expect Anfield to be 60k or more at the end of it. That was the bare minimum that most people would have expected from them after being in charge for a decade.

The only concerns I would have is how they will fund it. We all know that whatever FSG tell us we can't believe, we're going to have to wait until the accounts come out a number years after the announcement to get the truth.

Online ianburns252

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9516 on: April 27, 2017, 09:50:34 am »
I think that is inline with what the majority (let's say 99% as there will forever be some tosspot who wants its slightly different) want re: capacity and the type of tickets.

In terms of knowing the 'truth' on funding, there will be some details in this year's accounts, due early 2018, as it will be classified as a post balance sheet event and so we might have an indication of the size of the loan, length of time to repay and possibly the interest rate attached. It won't be until the following year's accounts though that we have concrete information. As with the Main Stand that more or less syncs up with when it will be completed so I wouldn't think it fair to say it is 'a number of years after the announcement'

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9517 on: April 27, 2017, 11:33:04 am »
With regard FSG when it comes to transfers that will always be open to discussion, what doesn't from my point of view is if they decided not to move forward with the Annie road stand, we have been eclipsed over the last 20 years by teams like Utd and Arsenal because we didn't build upon our success. We have permission for the stand to be built every game this season has been sold out, expanding the ground is a no brainier.

Also there was over 50000 at the charity match last month, with thousands of kids there who don't normally get to go.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9518 on: April 27, 2017, 11:39:59 am »
I fully expect the Anfield Road end to be extended with all seats going towards general admission. I also expect Anfield to be 60k or more at the end of it. That was the bare minimum that most people would have expected from them after being in charge for a decade.

The only concerns I would have is how they will fund it. We all know that whatever FSG tell us we can't believe, we're going to have to wait until the accounts come out a number years after the announcement to get the truth.

I wouldn't be so sure, this is what JWH said last year “I don't know if there is a next step because ticket prices are an issue in England,” Henry said. “That may foreclose further expansion. We'll have to see.”
Regarding the financing they could build it and get the money back when they eventually sell the club, that's if they're sports fans as they say or they're cold businessmen and don't really care about the fans and club.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #9519 on: April 27, 2017, 11:41:21 am »
Liverpool are anxiously awaiting the results of a scan on Mamadou Sakho’s knee amid fears that he may have damaged his ACL.
Sakho will stay in London with Liverpool happy for Palace’s staff to conduct the scan. All information will then be shared.
The worst scenario is Sakho has ruptured his ACL & is facing 9 months out. That would wreck hopes of selling him this summer.
That would wreck the Reds’ hopes of selling him for £30million this summer and have an impact on the club’s transfer plans. (James Pearce)

That last bit. Perfect ::)

Excuses coming in early.