Author Topic: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?  (Read 101308 times)

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #160 on: August 17, 2013, 09:22:29 pm »
In recent years, biologists have recognized that birds engage in play. Juvenile Common Ravens are among the most playful of bird species. They have been observed to slide down snowbanks, apparently purely for fun. They even engage in games with other species, such as playing catch-me-if-you-can with wolves, otters and dogs.[77] Common Ravens are known for spectacular aerobatic displays, such as flying in loops or interlocking talons with each other in flight.[78][79]

They are also one of only a few wild animals who make their own toys. They have been observed breaking off twigs to play with socially.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Playful_behavior

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #161 on: August 18, 2013, 03:55:02 am »
In recent years, biologists have recognized that birds engage in play. Juvenile Common Ravens are among the most playful of bird species. They have been observed to slide down snowbanks, apparently purely for fun. They even engage in games with other species, such as playing catch-me-if-you-can with wolves, otters and dogs.[77] Common Ravens are known for spectacular aerobatic displays, such as flying in loops or interlocking talons with each other in flight.[78][79]

They are also one of only a few wild animals who make their own toys. They have been observed breaking off twigs to play with socially.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Playful_behavior
Apart from domesticated/trained animals, I wonder what other species play with humans?
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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #162 on: August 18, 2013, 10:38:07 am »
Apart from domesticated/trained animals, I wonder what other species play with humans?
The intelligent ones wouldn't ;)

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #163 on: August 21, 2013, 12:21:02 pm »

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #164 on: August 21, 2013, 03:06:30 pm »
I don't think that's a result of 'intelligence' either. 

They've just adapted to their enviroment. The title is very misleading and anthropomorphizes the birds uneccesarily.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2013, 03:15:28 pm »
I don't think that's a result of 'intelligence' either. 

They've just adapted to their enviroment. The title is very misleading and anthropomorphizes the birds uneccesarily.

I do not agree. They are aware that cars on certain stretches of roads go faster than cars on other stretches. Certainly, they do not know why, and to that extent do not know what speed limits "are" but they are aware of them. This means that they have observed multiple cars at multiple locations and drawn general observations or "rules" from that data. That sounds pretty intelligent to me.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2013, 04:02:40 pm »
I do not agree. They are aware that cars on certain stretches of roads go faster than cars on other stretches. Certainly, they do not know why, and to that extent do not know what speed limits "are" but they are aware of them. This means that they have observed multiple cars at multiple locations and drawn general observations or "rules" from that data. That sounds pretty intelligent to me.

You're making an assumption that they are 'aware' of them and that they can even draw "general observations". If we knew they could draw "general observations" by comparing data I wouldn't be questioning it at all. That's what we did when we put up the speed limits in the first place but thinking that's the reason they modified their behaviour is anthropomorphizing them with no evidence. The article says as much when it says it doesn't matter what speed the cars are travelling at, it's the enviroment that is the influencing factor. We might see the difference between the two roads as the speed limit, but they could be, actually I'd go as far as saying must be, evaluating the differences using different criteria.

Their outward behaviour may make it look, to us, that they have rationalised this internally but there really is no way that it can be known. What can be known is that the ones who didn't fly off in time, in different enviroments, are dead and producing no offspring. That makes me think it's evolution and not intelligence that creates this observed behaviour which looks like forward planning.

To be honest, and upfront about it, I'm not a fan of the "are other animals intelligent?" question because I feel it's a way of 'ranking' animals where if they are more like us they are more important, or worthy of saving, etc.. It's also a little bit confusing because there really isn't a universal definition to define what 'intelligence' is except to say that it's what we have. That's too anthropomorphic for my taste. It's not really a shock that some animals exhibt behaviours that are similar to us (we are all pretty much the same thing anyway, just variants of it and I wouldn't think that a cockroach that runs away from my fast approaching foot is rationalisng the decision), and when we boil it down the micro-organisms that live in your toilet are probably 'worth' more to life than all the dolphins that have ever existed. So, yeah...sidetracked.  :P

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2013, 04:41:11 pm »
No, it's a fair sidetrack and I agree with the problems of defining intelligence.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2013, 06:41:16 pm »
Dolphins can't be that intelligent, one's gone to North Wales for his summer holidays.

http://news.sky.com/story/1131405/dolphin-leaps-out-of-river-in-rare-sighting

Offline mulfella

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #169 on: August 25, 2013, 07:07:18 pm »
Dolphins can't be that intelligent, one's gone to North Wales for his summer holidays.

http://news.sky.com/story/1131405/dolphin-leaps-out-of-river-in-rare-sighting

Course he's intelligent, he's done it on porpoise
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #170 on: September 3, 2013, 03:40:28 pm »
This orangutan kept getting out of his cage and they couldn't figure out how. Then they saw this.

"First, the young ape climbed down some air-vent louvers into a dry moat. Then, taking hold of the bottom of the furnace door, he used brute force to pull it back just far enough to slide a wire into the gap, slip a latch and pop the door open. The next day, Stones noticed something shiny sticking out of Fu's mouth. It was the wire lock pick, bent to fit between his lip and gum and stowed there between escapes."

source

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Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #172 on: September 10, 2013, 11:30:38 am »
Rats Capable Of Reflecting On Mental Processes

Mar. 9, 2007 —  Let's say a college student enters a classroom to take a test. She probably already has an idea how she will do on the test,  before she even takes out a pencil. But do animals possess the same ability to think about what they know or don't know?

A new study by researchers from the University of Georgia, just published in the journal Current Biology, shows that laboratory rats do. It's the first demonstration that any non-primate knows when it doesn't know something, and it could open the way to more in-depth studies about how animals--and humans--think.

"This kind of research may change how we think about cognition and memory in animals," said Jonathon Crystal, an associate professor of psychology in UGA's Franklin College of Arts and Sciences. Crystal's co-author on the paper is Allison Foote, a graduate student in the department of psychology at UGA.

Researchers have believed for some time that people and non-human primates are capable of "metacognition"--reasoning or thinking about one's own thinking. There have been studies on birds about this kind of thinking process, but results thus far have been inconclusive. The new study is the first that shows a non-primate species has metacognition--a proposal that may well be controversial.

The study involved what is called a "duration-discrimination" test--offering rats rewards for classifying a signal as either short or long. As in most such tests, the "right" answer led to a large food reward, while a "wrong" answer led to no reward at all. The twist, however, is that before taking the duration test, the rats were given the chance to decline the test completely. If they made that choice, they got a small reward anyway.

"If rats have knowledge about whether they know or don't know the answer to the test, we would expect them to decline most frequently on difficult tests," said Crystal. "They would also show the lowest accuracy on difficult tests that they can't decline. Our data showed both to be true, suggesting the rats have knowledge of their own cognitive states."

It's easy to find out when humans believe they know or don't know the answer to a task or test. You just ask them. With non-verbal animals, it is necessary to used experimental conditions in which a subject can demonstrate knowledge of a cognitive state through its behavior.

The tests asked the rats to discriminate among a number of responses. Sometimes, the choices were relatively easy, and the rats were able to make a choice that generated a large reward. But often, the choices were quite difficult, and the animals faced a dilemma: Should they continue and take a chance on the test with the risk of no food reward, or should they just bail out and take the small, but guaranteed reward?

One part of the problem, for example, was presenting the rats with a sound and asking them to determine if it was "short" or "long." When the sounds were near the extremes of either end, discriminating was easy. But for sounds with durations in the mid-range, the rats found it extremely hard to know if they were "short" or "long." So what should they do: Guess and possibly be wrong, or simply refuse to take the test and get a small reward?

"Our research showed that the rats know when they don't know the answer to a question," said Crystal.

The results of the just-published study present a dilemma for those who had previously believed that only primates could achieve metacognition. But it also presents a rodent model that should allow researchers to understand better what animals are "cognitively sophisticated" and why.

The research will also open new lines of inquiry about the underlying neural mechanisms of this ability. Reflecting on one's own mental experiences is a defining feature of human existence, and the demonstration of metacognition in rats suggests that this type of cognition may be widespread among animals. Does it mean, for example, that rats are "conscious," and could that also be true of other non-primates?

The research was supported by a grant from the National Institute of Mental Health.

source

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #173 on: September 12, 2013, 11:55:49 am »
A new study of 15 wild male orangutans finds that they routinely plot out their next day treks and share their plans in long calls, so females can come by or track them, and competitive males can steer clear.

The researchers closely followed the males as they traveled on 320 days during the 1990s. The results were published Wednesday in the journal PLoS One.

Typically, an orangutan would turn and face in the direction of his route and let out a whoop, sometimes for as long as four minutes. Then he’d go to sleep and 12 hours later set on the heralded path, said study author Carel van Schaik, director of the Anthropological Institute at the University of Zurich.

“This guy basically thinks ahead,” van Schaik said. “They’re continuously updating their Google Maps so to speak. Based on that, they’re planning what to do next.”

source

Offline Red Genius

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #174 on: September 13, 2013, 04:58:31 am »
Daddy long legs = thick as pig shit.... i've no lights on, it's a daddy long legs cemetery in here, i've asked them nicely not to flap around my face as i'm trying to sleep or they'll end up like their mates on a carpet grave, do they listen? go find some fucking spiders outside to go and eat for fucks sake and stop waking me up, twats.
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Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #175 on: October 3, 2013, 10:57:26 pm »
You been watching this series Corky? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bgrxh

It covers a lot of topics discussed in here.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #176 on: October 3, 2013, 11:12:00 pm »
You been watching this series Corky? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bgrxh

It covers a lot of topics discussed in here.

If it's on Saturdays at 5 like the link says then no, not on my variety of Beeb and I don't have Beebwatch on the internetz.

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #177 on: October 4, 2013, 12:47:09 am »
If it's on Saturdays at 5 like the link says then no, not on my variety of Beeb and I don't have Beebwatch on the internetz.

I've only seen it on Thursdays.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #178 on: October 16, 2013, 12:03:06 pm »
Spoilered for length only.

Spoiler
[close]

Offline Crosby Nick

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #179 on: October 16, 2013, 02:02:24 pm »
Brilliant (although not for the penguins, my son would be mortified!). Cheers for sharing that Corky.

Offline Corkboy

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Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #181 on: October 17, 2013, 10:11:05 pm »
Great stuff, the seal one made my heart swell.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #182 on: October 25, 2013, 10:45:13 am »

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #183 on: October 25, 2013, 11:16:55 am »
Intelligent thought - humans by a mile.

Intelligent instincts - Animals by a country mile.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #184 on: October 25, 2013, 11:24:20 am »
Daddy long legs = thick as pig shit.... i've no lights on, it's a daddy long legs cemetery in here, i've asked them nicely not to flap around my face as i'm trying to sleep or they'll end up like their mates on a carpet grave, do they listen? go find some fucking spiders outside to go and eat for fucks sake and stop waking me up, twats.

I know...it's the same with those late autumn bluebottles. I try to let them out to give them the last few days/hours of life but they won't have it...just keep buzzing about driving me nuts. I put a notice up but they have ignored it.

I won't kill them as every creature has the right to life and who am I to decide to end their lives. Kill bluebottles etc. It's only a matter of scale really and could lead to inhumane mouse traps etc. We have to respect all forms of life.

Off course I draw the line at those bastard earwigs...sppplurt them every time.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #185 on: October 25, 2013, 11:37:51 am »
Intelligent thought

Intelligent instincts

What's the difference?

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #186 on: October 25, 2013, 11:52:59 am »
What's the difference?

Analytical thought is thinking of options and choosing and carrying out those thoughts.

Instict is doing without analysis, a natural inbuilt response.

My point was, as you know, that Animals have obviously got amazing instinctive abilities.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #187 on: October 25, 2013, 12:13:58 pm »
Analytical thought is thinking of options and choosing and carrying out those thoughts.

Instinct is doing without analysis, a natural inbuilt response.

So you looked at that crow, selecting and utilising tools to successfully solve a problem and you thought, wow. That's a "natural inbuilt response with no analysis"?

Are you sure you're not just posting instinctively?

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #188 on: October 25, 2013, 12:19:20 pm »
So you looked at that crow, selecting and utilising tools to successfully solve a problem and you thought, wow. That's a "natural inbuilt response with no analysis"?

Are you sure you're not just posting instinctively?

If there's one thing I can''t stand on these forums, it's a big headed smart arse. how do you get into your house at night..have you had your door widened to get your big head thru.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #189 on: October 25, 2013, 12:22:47 pm »
If there's one thing I can''t stand on these forums, it's a big headed smart arse. how do you get into your house at night..have you had your door widened to get your big head thru.

Don't worry. What you're saying there is just a natural inbuilt response.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #190 on: October 25, 2013, 12:27:05 pm »
Don't worry. What you're saying there is just a natural inbuilt response.

I actually enjoyed reading tru the thread and thought your contribution was good but I've gone orf you now. plus your from Cork, only my fav part of Ireland, off there next week from Lurgan.

Come to think of it the Cork mob are a bit big headed so you didn't disappoint.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #191 on: October 25, 2013, 12:48:54 pm »
Don't worry. What you're saying there is just a natural inbuilt response.

Probably your big headed ' I'm the cleverest poster on here response'was far more natural and predictable.

Few people underestimate the innate abilities to be found in the animal kingdom. I have very little interest in the subject to be fair. And will refrain from posting in the thread again for fear of being belittled by some other bloated big head.

Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #192 on: October 25, 2013, 07:27:41 pm »
Probably your big headed ' I'm the cleverest poster on here response'was far more natural and predictable.

Few people underestimate the innate abilities to be found in the animal kingdom. I have very little interest in the subject to be fair. And will refrain from posting in the thread again for fear of being belittled by some other bloated big head.

Not helping yourself typing with a broken keyboard/finger/brain.

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #193 on: October 28, 2013, 05:13:53 pm »
Spoilered for length only.

Spoiler
[close]

Seems like a pretty stupid seal to be honest, why would a human want to eat a penguin?






 ;D

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #194 on: November 15, 2013, 11:58:27 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qoaEBb4IN4Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qoaEBb4IN4Q</a>

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Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #196 on: November 17, 2013, 06:17:55 pm »
"Woe to you, Oh Earth and Sea, for the Devil sends the beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short...Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number, its number is Six hundred and sixty six."

Offline Corkboy

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #197 on: November 20, 2013, 11:12:02 pm »
My normally sensible Labrador has spent the last half hour outside in freezing weather staring at the moon while apparently guarding a rubber chicken. This seemed the appropriate thread to share that.

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Offline capt k

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Re: How Intelligent Are Other Animals?
« Reply #199 on: November 23, 2013, 04:08:55 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qoaEBb4IN4Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/qoaEBb4IN4Q</a>

They can fuck right off, dog should have bit it in half.
its "Swooping season" here at the moment, and the bastards dive bomb you from miles away. 99% of the time {or most likely higher figures} they just scare the shit outta you.
but they have taken eyes out, broken skin and cause cyclists to fall off bikes putting them in danger .
Wouldnt mind so much as they are only protecting their nests, but their nests are high up in a fucking tree, ive no wish to climb trees anymore, therefore i am no danger to these bastards..

intelligent, my arse..
JFT 96