Author Topic: Solidarity and tributes from fans of other clubs  (Read 256494 times)

Offline MHLC

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2012, 12:38:51 am »
The reason I said I found it annoying is personal to me.
I live in London and I've spent the last twenty three years defending LFC the city and the fans against a lot of ignorant views.
Anyway I'm off to bed.

I see where you're coming from fella. Have struggled a few times to explain the facts about the disaster to those who were unaware of it. The more I've learnt over the years, the harder it became to express what a monumental injustice took place on so many levels. Where do you even begin?

The facts are now in the public domain for all to see. No longer do the families of the victims or those that survived and saved others have to defend themselves. The truth is out there and fair play to the OP in being open to it.

Offline Reheat Red

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2012, 12:40:19 am »
Thanks stu and Jimmy.

Out of interest, what exactly changed your view? Do you know the sea-change, paradigm-shift, perspective-altering moment or was it just a gradual realisation based on several points?

It has particularly intrigued me this week, the aspect of how public opinion - the national conscience - seemed to be against us for so long yet now it's almost universally on our side.

I'd like to think that public opinion started really to shift in our direction in 2009, primarily because the 20th anniversary was such a significant time but also partially because we had many allies in the media who were prepared to 'buck the trend' and focus on the truth......then the formation of the Panel.......then the parliamentary debate in autumn......then the release of the report this week......

One of the things that hit me a lot harder than I realised was just how on our side the papers were this week. Sure, cynically we could say, "Took youse long enough!" but every victory against ignorance (and I mean that in the true etymological sense of the word, being simply 'lack of knowledge' rather than bigotry) should be celebrated.

So - what were your turning points?

Oh and welcome :wave
If I can throw in my reasoning, I never believed the lies from the sun etc but I can't say I was that educated on the matter or really believed some of the cover up stories.

The talksport feature last year was very eye opening and obviously what has come out this week is just incredible. 

Offline didi shamone

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2012, 12:42:10 am »
I'm from Belfast. Can i just ask why exactly do you feel your 'oar' is not needed?

It's just that I don't want to speak out of turn on a subject that I haven't had to live with, unlike a lot of the the people who live in the city. I've always supported the cause of course. I suppose that means my oar was needed . So I take that back. ;)

Offline Paul_Nudge

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2012, 12:42:14 am »
I've been touched by the response from rival clubs. I really have. I have been shocked by our so many people have immedialtely been visibly shocked and almost disgusted with themselves for believing the establishments version of events.

We have always known. Our club and the families can rejoice in the fact that most of the world knows the truth. That tinge of resentment to everyone connected with the club and hillsbrough has been dispersed. Now, we need to fight fo rjustice. But, the angels can rest in peace knowing they were totally blameless and everyone now knows.

Id love it if we could possibly show the world how truly great the club and people are. I was thinking it would be poignant to have a banner in the kop against united to commemorate those players and staff killed at Munich. We are the two greatest clubs in the world and with a global focus on it. Lets show the world. One city, one people, one mindset.

A truly special emotional club that can never be tarnished.

I completely and utterly agree with this. I
Moses said come forth, but we came first!

Offline Paul_Nudge

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2012, 12:47:34 am »
I've been touched by the response from rival clubs. I really have. I have been shocked by our so many people have immedialtely been visibly shocked and almost disgusted with themselves for believing the establishments version of events.

We have always known. Our club and the families can rejoice in the fact that most of the world knows the truth. That tinge of resentment to everyone connected with the club and hillsbrough has been dispersed. Now, we need to fight fo rjustice. But, the angels can rest in peace knowing they were totally blameless and everyone now knows.

Id love it if we could possibly show the world how truly great the club and people are. I was thinking it would be poignant to have a banner in the kop against united to commemorate those players and staff killed at Munich. We are the two greatest clubs in the world and with a global focus on it. Lets show the world. One city, one people, one mindset.

A truly special emotional club that can never be tarnished.

I totally and utterly agree with this. If not a mosaic, a simple banner.
Moses said come forth, but we came first!

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2012, 12:51:51 am »
I'm an Arsenal fan with no allegiances to LFC - but I've been moved to sign up to this forum today to show some solidarity with the fans and families of fans of LFC. I realise that this thread is in the wrong forum but I wasn't able to start one in the Hillsborough forum.

Its hard to express what I really feel - shame is the main feeling. I live in a society where I've allowed this to happen so I feel as much to blame as anyone for the truth not being heard earlier. I hope you can understand but you see the lies were convenient - they fitted and they were easy to swallow. Even as I stood for the minutes silence for the 96 at the Emirates last year I was only really honouring the dead on a human level - even then I was fairly sure of the version of reality that I'd decided upon.

This week has been shocking for me only on the realisation that I've got it wrong for so many years. I'd always known that there were lots of factors at play but having been to so many games in that era I'd just assumed.......but it was wrong.

If I'm this upset I don't know how those of you directly affected can be coping right now. If my changed reality is worth anything to you then here it is - use it and take it for what you can. I and anyone I've spoken to this week am shocked, stunned and absolutely behind the fans and their families. The truth won't be forgotten.  :'(

Good luck with the next steps and I hope you can find something positive to take forwards and find some normality after this.

RIP the 96 and peace for their loved ones.

Hiya Stu.

Welcome to RAWK.

I'm a Toon fan.

Offline Camarero25

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2012, 12:55:17 am »
surely that's a victory in its self?

Exactly. Amazing that everyone is finally aware of the truth.

Disgraceful that it took 23 years to truly come out.

Offline Rormac

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2012, 12:56:26 am »
I'm an Arsenal fan with no allegiances to LFC - but I've been moved to sign up to this forum today to show some solidarity with the fans and families of fans of LFC. I realise that this thread is in the wrong forum but I wasn't able to start one in the Hillsborough forum.

Its hard to express what I really feel - shame is the main feeling. I live in a society where I've allowed this to happen so I feel as much to blame as anyone for the truth not being heard earlier. I hope you can understand but you see the lies were convenient - they fitted and they were easy to swallow. Even as I stood for the minutes silence for the 96 at the Emirates last year I was only really honouring the dead on a human level - even then I was fairly sure of the version of reality that I'd decided upon.

This week has been shocking for me only on the realisation that I've got it wrong for so many years. I'd always known that there were lots of factors at play but having been to so many games in that era I'd just assumed.......but it was wrong.

If I'm this upset I don't know how those of you directly affected can be coping right now. If my changed reality is worth anything to you then here it is - use it and take it for what you can. I and anyone I've spoken to this week am shocked, stunned and absolutely behind the fans and their families. The truth won't be forgotten.  :'(

Good luck with the next steps and I hope you can find something positive to take forwards and find some normality after this.

RIP the 96 and peace for their loved ones.

Cheers Stu

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2012, 12:59:40 am »
23 years it went on but I have to say that I joined RAWK in October 2003 so it is nearly 9 years now so for 14 years I was ignorant of what really happened.

Offline Pendzo

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2012, 01:03:22 am »
It's great to see fans from other clubs showing their support, whether in RAWK or over Twitter, just amazing to see.

Will never get tired of reading such messages of support.

Offline Rormac

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2012, 01:06:07 am »
23 years it went on but I have to say that I joined RAWK in October 2003 so it is nearly 9 years now so for 14 years I was ignorant of what really happened.

We are only finding out now Paul. 

Offline Armand9

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2012, 01:41:53 am »
While I appreciate that fans often don't know the intricacies of other clubs like they know their own, I'm still somewhat surprised that a tragedy as monumentous as Hillsborough was viewed so ignorantly by so many. I've had many conversations trying to 'put people right' over the decades, so I was well aware of the ignorance out there but not on the scale that appears to have been the case (judging from forums/news/radio shows etc and the forthcoming apologies) and find it quite staggering. Had no one from other clubs - who generally you'd think would be interested in football matters - heard of the Taylor report that clearly put the blame on the police and not the Liverpool fans?

It appears it took a Prime Minister's very black and white words on the matter regarding the report to get it to sink in. I do wonder if he'd not taken such an outspoken lead - which all and sundry followed - would the report (even tho its all encompassing findings are incontroverible) have likewise been forgotten/disbelieved/watered down in the minds of the masses like it appears the Taylor report had?

That said, of course I welcome that finally the general public now 'get it' and can see the tragedy for what it was and those responsible for its happening and I do appreciate fans such as the OP voicing their support. Welcome to RAWK, Stu, feel free to stay around.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 01:44:08 am by Armand9 »
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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2012, 01:58:39 am »
Doesn't matter where yer from or who youse support as long as your fighting the good fighta supporting th 96 their families their friends ad the survivors then your one of us.

Welcome aboard.

Btw been reading on twitter everton are planning to play ynwa at goodison on monday and their fas are planning a mosaic, if true thats boss as well.
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Offline Pendzo

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2012, 02:00:08 am »
While I appreciate that fans often don't know the intricacies of other clubs like they know their own, I'm still somewhat surprised that a tragedy as monumentous as Hillsborough was viewed so ignorantly by so many. I've had many conversations trying to 'put people right' over the decades, so I was well aware of the ignorance out there but not on the scale that appears to have been the case (judging from forums/news/radio shows etc and the forthcoming apologies) and find it quite staggering. Had no one from other clubs - who generally you'd think would be interested in football matters - heard of the Taylor report that clearly put the blame on the police and not the Liverpool fans?


That's something i have also always thought about, especially after the HIP have released their findings. I have only been made aware of the disaster a few years ago as i am merely 20 but all it took for me was an hour reading about Hillsborough online to be brought up to date and aware of the situation surrounding it. I wonder how some people have been so influenced by the media and how their views have been so deeply entrenched to believe such a momentous cover-up.

However, that's in the past now (hopefully) and we can only look forward to the future towards the path to justice. All we can do from now is to welcome all forms of support with open arms and be grateful that the truth is finally out in the open for all to see, after a long, long wait.

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2012, 02:05:45 am »
What a difference a day makes.

I understand the bitterness some might feel over people now suddenly waking up to the truth, but thats been what its been about, that people didnt know or didnt believe us, but now they do, we got that first part, now we want justice for the 96.

But to have it changed, to have people finally see through the lies and actually side with us now is an amazing feeling.

The fact is people already had a poor opinion of us, after things like Heysel and just the general way in which scousers were and are regarded, as lay abouts and thieves, easy stereotypes, thats part of why it was so easy for people to believe it, they already thought badly of us, so it wasnt much of a stretch when the lies started flowing out. But now they see, they actually see we werent just moaning, we werent playing the victim to deflect blame or because its some kind of mentality we have, no its because we were the victim of a monsterous injustice, the louder we shouted the less they believed us. Its fantstic that now they do know and fair play to any who have come out to admit it, we want you with us. To be honest if you never do anything else but believe the truth, thats fine, the truth is out.

I just realised as I type this how much this is going to change things for us, its true there are still going to be people who either dont believe or come out with shite about it, but generally, its over, its altered life as we know it and its now a fight to bring those responsible to account. But the war is over, the war of trying to tell people what really happened and having the truth fall on wilfully deaf ears is over, people know and will listen now, I cant even begin to express what that feels like, the sense of relief in just incredible. It will improve with time as well, as hopefully the guilty are brought to book, its strange to think it, but there might come a day when we dont have to fight anymore and it can finally be put to rest. I didnt realise, but until this wednesday I didnt think it would ever end, now its seems like it might.
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Offline Rormac

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2012, 02:24:41 am »
My kids are 8, 6 and 7 months.  From now on they will know the truth.  This is due to amazing courage and persistence. 

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2012, 02:26:32 am »
I am myself a more than a little dissapointed that it's taken so long for so many to 'get it', but I wouldn't be overly hard on those people at this time.

You have to remember that 1989 the internet was in it's infancy and not as widespread.

After the S*n's headlines, people believed them, hook line and sinker, and as many didn't have the internet, had no way of digging deeper themselves other than TV radio or other newspaers.

Most people's perceptions were formed within days and weeks of the disaster.  Once those perceptions and opinions were formed, club rivalries and tribalsm was always going to kick in.

Yes, over the years we've tried to educate as many as we can, but many people's deep seated biggotry of both Liverpool Football Club, through club rivalry, and Liverpool as a city have stopped them from finding the truth, or even wanting to know.

After all, it wasn't their football club or city, so it didn't really matter to many if what they knew or didn't know was the truth or not.  It just didn't register on their radar for most.


What it does show though, is how far reaching and damaging 'that headline' was.

It seeped into and permiated the public consciousness, to a point that to many, it was the only truth they've ever known.

Thats the saddest part for me.  The fact that so many can be bought by the lie, and are too apathetic to even challenge it.


Today though, it's abrave new world, and  nobody see's like the person who's eyes are opened.

I'm both pleased, and ultimately relived than fans of other clubs are now coming over from the dark side, so to speak.  It can only be a good thing from our point of view, as the public consciousness shifts on it's axis, an with that weight of public opinion now on our side, it will mean that the ongoing fight for justice will definately not stall or be pushed back in to a darkened corner again.

On wards and upwards.

Offline reniformis

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2012, 04:31:18 am »
What a difference a day makes.


Good, actually great posts. I don't blame the 'ignorant' public up until now any more than I blame our fans on that day. Lied to and shepherded to a place where the rich and powerful wanted them. It's nothing new. It's said that you get more right-wing as you get older but I've gone the opposite way. The more I see of the media and the authorities in this country, the more I despair. The front lines of the emergency services on that day were let down as badly as we were by their self-serving shithouse management. Kirsty Wark on Newsnight asked why there had been no whistleblowers over the last 23 years without realising that there were, they were just ignored. Tony Edwards and the like deserve a fucking medal for putting their livelihoods on the line to tell the truth when it would have been easier to shut up, take the pain and carry on as damaged as they were. Because that's what the British do, isn't it? Well fuck that. We deserve better.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 04:43:54 am by reniformis »
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Offline macca888

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2012, 05:04:36 am »
Thanks Stu. Ask a lot of the regulars from other clubs like Jonno and Paul and a lot of other good lads and girls, and they'll all tell you we're a decent family on RAWK and treat them like one of our own. But something about your post made me think. Of course I'm still pissed off that we weren't believed by a vast majority, but that has been tempered by the groundswell of goodwill and support from the press, the media and by people like you. I'm genuinely touched by some of the things I've read from other supporters, although I wouldn't go so far as to read other forums because I'm more interested in reading this one and as much of the various reports and documents as I can.

So just a little thought about fans of other clubs who may have swallowed the lies and deceit of the past and didn't believe the truth. Whether it was a tribal thing with football teams, whether it was safety in numbers, and let's be honest, we've been in the minority for 23 years, or whether it was because of just believing media myths that were allowed to fester and form that notorious sort of urban truth, for whatever reason, now the genuine truth is out there for all to see and is simply too hard to ignore. I'd sooner a supporter from another team say "fuck me, I was wrong all along, but now I know they were right" than say "So what if I was wrong all along? I still don't care." All I ask is that people like Stu don't think this is the end of our battle, and are open minded enough to understand that our next step is justice for our 96 and their families, and offer their support when we need it next.

As a crude analogy, and I hope this makes sense to people, has anyone got any family or friends who are ex smokers? Well in my experience, they're the ones who are the most vociferously anti-smoking. The ones I know are the type of people who once believed nipping out for a Benson and Hedges every five minutes was the right thing to do, who having seen the error of their ways, moan and lecture at anyone who even so much as walks past them with a lit ciggy in their hand. So just like an ex smoker, let us hope that the same people who once believed the lies in the past and have now seen and believed the truth for themselves can now be as outspoken against those lies when confronted by them in the future.
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Offline great ball Jan

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2012, 05:08:25 am »
A lot believed. A lot bothered to read educate and learn. Defended and fought.
I've had countless arguements. Countless. Pointed out facts, all to fall on deaf ears..
Rowed with freinds strangers, told people don't buy that paper, tried to educate and got shouted down.
But the truth finally came of age. I knew nobody directly affected by Hillsborough.
But I feel a victory as strong as a scouser, I feel, believed.
Finally, everyone who looked at me like I was a fool, and asked themselves " why does he care so much"
Will now know why.
I feel relieved.
They will feel shame. I hope.
I hope people feel sorrow for the injustice.
One of the happiest days of my life.

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Offline Des Equilibrante

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2012, 06:57:18 am »
Even on here, you only have to look at what LFC faced around the anniversary from other football fans. People who may have long left did so tirelessly and without anger, just trying to inform the masses of the real truth.
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Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2012, 07:14:05 am »
it does not matter how late anyone come to know the truth. One on our side is better than one on the other side. As the voice gets louder, we get closer and closer to Justice.

Offline WEST HAM PAUL

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2012, 07:16:15 am »
Great post Stu,

From my own perspective as a West Ham fan.

The actual day itself I was 14 at the time & a regular on the terraces at Upton Park . I remember going to see England play Romania in a world cup qualifier in 1985 at the old Wembley . Before the game I'm not sure why but I think due to people turning up late it was an evening KO . The crowd outside became very angry & vocal & a minor crush started to begin as people couldn't get into the ground due to the late swell of people I remember being surrounded  with no view I was 10 & very scared & crying. We missed the first 15 mins of the match by the time we got through the turnstiles .

This always stuck in my mind & as a regular terrace goer in the 80's & early 90's I understood how they work unlike a lot of people who pass comment on Hillsborough & never stood on a terrace.

I don't know why but I never believed the lies or saw the rags truth headline but as my teens & early 20's progressed I thought no more about Hillsborough as I had no emotional tie to it. As you get older & more mature you start to think about injustices etc & through my own interest I started reading up on Hillsborough & if you look at my Rawk profile I joined on April 15th 2005. Through researching myself it led me to Rawk which in turn led me to learn so much more in that I've since bought & read Phil Scraton The Truth & Anne Williams books.

I never understood why some people totally blamed the fans often thinking these people have never stood on a packed terrace or in those days been treated like a caged animal. I had an open mind & through Rawk over the years been educated enough . I was shocked by some of the revelations this week but also I wasn't as I expected it aswell if that sounds strange.

So I'm delighted the truth has come out & hopefully justice will be next

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Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2012, 07:32:10 am »
there are still plenty of morons around though. Just visited the thread on Crystal Palace boards. Don't wanna post the link but some of the comments continue to anger me.

Which is why i hope the likes of West Ham Paul, Black and White Paul, Gunnerstu would help spread the word and educate the rest of them. Even better if you can start a motion to support the JFT96 either through chants and what nots.


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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #64 on: September 15, 2012, 08:13:56 am »
there are still plenty of morons around though. Just visited the thread on Crystal Palace boards. Don't wanna post the link but some of the comments continue to anger me.

Which is why i hope the likes of West Ham Paul, Black and White Paul, Gunnerstu would help spread the word and educate the rest of them. Even better if you can start a motion to support the JFT96 either through chants and what nots.



The thing is mate a few days ago we(LFC) were in the minority of knowing the truth and what happened. Today people who continue to spout the lies and make vile comments are in the minority. You will never convince everyone. But our voice will now drown out those few who still remain, coupled with the voices of so many other people who didn't know, but now do.

Oh and welcome Stu! Thanks for the sentiment and comments.

Offline fivein05

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2012, 08:21:20 am »
Great post Stu,

From my own perspective as a West Ham fan.

The actual day itself I was 14 at the time & a regular on the terraces at Upton Park . I remember going to see England play Romania in a world cup qualifier in 1985 at the old Wembley . Before the game I'm not sure why but I think due to people turning up late it was an evening KO . The crowd outside became very angry & vocal & a minor crush started to begin as people couldn't get into the ground due to the late swell of people I remember being surrounded  with no view I was 10 & very scared & crying. We missed the first 15 mins of the match by the time we got through the turnstiles .

This always stuck in my mind & as a regular terrace goer in the 80's & early 90's I understood how they work unlike a lot of people who pass comment on Hillsborough & never stood on a terrace.

I don't know why but I never believed the lies or saw the rags truth headline but as my teens & early 20's progressed I thought no more about Hillsborough as I had no emotional tie to it. As you get older & more mature you start to think about injustices etc & through my own interest I started reading up on Hillsborough & if you look at my Rawk profile I joined on April 15th 2005. Through researching myself it led me to Rawk which in turn led me to learn so much more in that I've since bought & read Phil Scraton The Truth & Anne Williams books.

I never understood why some people totally blamed the fans often thinking these people have never stood on a packed terrace or in those days been treated like a caged animal. I had an open mind & through Rawk over the years been educated enough . I was shocked by some of the revelations this week but also I wasn't as I expected it aswell if that sounds strange.

So I'm delighted the truth has come out & hopefully justice will be next

RIP 96

My friend is a West Ham fan Paul and my wife and her were talking about it last night and within minutes the three of us were in tears. I think the realisation of what these families have been through is now hitting home to a lot of people outside the city and fans of other clubs. Lets ALL now fight for Justice.
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Offline DutchRed

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2012, 08:27:38 am »
I didn't read what The Sun printed Thursday, I probably won't read anything they print in my life. But IF they had the honest story about the tragedy for once, I wouldn't mind people reading it. For once.

On another note: Welcome Stu!
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Offline mat106

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #67 on: September 15, 2012, 08:30:35 am »
there are still plenty of morons around though. Just visited the thread on Crystal Palace boards. Don't wanna post the link but some of the comments continue to anger me.

Which is why i hope the likes of West Ham Paul, Black and White Paul, Gunnerstu would help spread the word and educate the rest of them. Even better if you can start a motion to support the JFT96 either through chants and what nots.

There will always be morons and even after all the lies, the cover-up and truths have been exposed the morons will continue to believe the crap that was peddled out by powers of that day. I honestly believe its a generational thing. Those of us who lived thru Thatchers Britain will understand. The problem is that mud sticks, and we had a lot of it thrown at us those days. I live in London and have had to defend the city and the club and have had to listen to some horrible indecent ignorant pond scum. I used to get angry but that used to incite them now I've learnt to just simply say that I wish that something like that never happens to their kid, partner, parent, friend and I wish them well. We were right!!! The Liverpool supporters on that day were the real heroes.

There are no words to describe the families and the individuals who have campaigned. They did so with so much dignity and courage. There's much beauty in their humility and the way they have carried on for 23 years! I can only pray that they can begin to have some peace in their lives.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 08:41:22 am by mat106 »

Offline Mad Max

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #68 on: September 15, 2012, 08:35:10 am »
Things change...

@tom_watson
I understand sales of the Sun fell by more than 50,000 compared to the previous week after the Hillsborough report was published.

Great news.

Don't Buy The Sun!

Offline gunnerstu

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #69 on: September 15, 2012, 09:51:37 am »
Lads & Lasses,

My opinion of supporters from other clubs was formed on the Highbury Clockend as a young lad who spent 10 minutes a game on the pitch due to away fans jumping the wall at the back and starting fights - seeing thugs from manchester and Tottenham turn over and knife hotdog salesmen when I was 7....these were informative years.  It then led onto a trip I was on in France the night and subsequent days after Heysel - our bus was stoned where ever we went and we were on curfew - it was a miserable time to be English.

So its not a short trip past that to form an opinion where the onrushing fans jumping turnstyles and going in 2 x 2 was a major contributing factor....that and given that was the news and reports coming out.

In all that time I was always sickened by the tragedy but the ongoing search for truth felt more like an ongoing partially guilty reaction. I'm sorry but it was easy to believe the lies.

I changed my mind only this week - I'd not paid much attention to the campaign and it is this that I feel probably most ashamed about. If someone is shouting for help all that time and I've ignored it.....

Offline horne

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #70 on: September 15, 2012, 09:59:59 am »
While I appreciate that fans often don't know the intricacies of other clubs like they know their own, I'm still somewhat surprised that a tragedy as monumentous as Hillsborough was viewed so ignorantly by so many. I've had many conversations trying to 'put people right' over the decades, so I was well aware of the ignorance out there but not on the scale that appears to have been the case (judging from forums/news/radio shows etc and the forthcoming apologies) and find it quite staggering. Had no one from other clubs - who generally you'd think would be interested in football matters - heard of the Taylor report that clearly put the blame on the police and not the Liverpool fans?

It appears it took a Prime Minister's very black and white words on the matter regarding the report to get it to sink in. I do wonder if he'd not taken such an outspoken lead - which all and sundry followed - would the report (even tho its all encompassing findings are incontroverible) have likewise been forgotten/disbelieved/watered down in the minds of the masses like it appears the Taylor report had?

That said, of course I welcome that finally the general public now 'get it' and can see the tragedy for what it was and those responsible for its happening and I do appreciate fans such as the OP voicing their support. Welcome to RAWK, Stu, feel free to stay around.
as in bold...i wonder whether all those years ago, thatcher had the same effect?...im sure she did...is my opinion

touched by all the support of those from other clubs!
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2012, 10:03:52 am »
I posted this on another thread but it was probably more applicable here.

When the time is right, somehow us Liverpool fans must create something the will be a permament thank you to all those decent, normal , honourable fans of other clubs who have stood with us , especially considering the 'challenging' experiance of their fellow supporters buying into the lies.

Its all still too emotionally raw to discuss this , but when the times right I hope there is a debate amongst us about somthething like a 'thank you' plaque at the away end. As I said too early too discuss or on this forum.


Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2012, 10:15:05 am »
Don't feel shame.

You were lied to by the very people you should be placing your trust in.  Be angry.

The fight for justice starts now, and as some of the other topics on this board show - there is plenty you can do to help.

This.

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2012, 10:18:15 am »
Fair play to you but it's annoying the amount of people who are now showing "solidarity" after believing all the lies for the last twenty three years.
You're not alone, mate.

No disrespect to the OP. I'm sure he's a genuine fella, and he's speaking from the heart. I thank him for it, and I know there's a great number of people who feel this way. And I suppose some people will think I'm being vindictive, but I just wanted to say, you're not alone in feeling like this. So, don't feel bad about saying it.

There's plenty of us who are finding all this sudden solidarity a bit annoying, as you put it. And I'd like to say more about that, but this isn't the time or place. And I certainly don't want to derail this thread. I applaud gunnerstu for saying what he's said. I hope the thread continues in a nice vein, but, believe me, Jrkopite, my solidarity is with you, mate.
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Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2012, 10:27:00 am »
You're not alone, mate.

No disrespect to the OP. I'm sure he's a genuine fella, and he's speaking from the heart. I thank him for it, and I know there's a great number of people who feel this way. And I suppose some people will think I'm being vindictive, but I just wanted to say, you're not alone in feeling like this. So, don't feel bad about saying it.

There's plenty of us who are finding all this sudden solidarity a bit annoying, as you put it. And I'd like to say more about that, but this isn't the time or place. And I certainly don't want to derail this thread. I applaud gunnerstu for saying what he's said. I hope the thread continues in a nice vein, but, believe me, Jrkopite, my solidarity is with you, mate.

Fats we are the bigger people here ( and I don't mean physically..though maybe me and you are!  ;) ), my view is if someone  genuinelly whishes to express their support or more importantly acknowledge that they had bought into the lies ,  then we should accept their contrition..better them than the PR apologies of Boris etc which carry no sincerity.

Offline No666

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2012, 10:31:12 am »
It's the fake self-serving apologies of the Bettisons and Patnicks we need to concentrate our anger on. Genuine people like the OP - well, we wanted to educate them and now we have, eh?

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2012, 10:36:08 am »
Plenty of rival fans have been ignorant of the facts; a fair number made no effort to educate themselves.  It was easy enough to believe the 'official' line.

That doesn't make those fans monsters or trolls.  There will be many now who feel embarrassed - indeed, ashamed - at their willingness to swallow the lies.  They also now realise that it could have happened to ANY club - it was just blind misfortune that it hit Liverpool, so soon after Heysel.

There will always be the dickheads looking to go on a wind up.  But those fools are now going to be firmly marginalised.  For example, that moron Man Utd fan with the Hillsborough mocking tattoo is likely feeling a tad foolish today.

At the end of the day our enemies on this are the officials who conspired to cover up their own failings and shift the blame.  Their days are numbered.  And so to all of those fans who let themselves be swayed: I don't blame you.  I forgive you.

Now let's nail those who are truly culpable.
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Offline Alf

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2012, 10:46:56 am »
I live in London and have to say Arsenal fans in general have been better than other clubs when it comes down to the understanding of Hillsborough. I remember talking to one after England won the Ashes in 2005 and the subject of them winning the title in 1989 inevitably came up and she said her underlying memory of that season would always be Hillsborough. I've spent plenty of time myself trying to educate others and the best education for them was the truth coming out this week. We've always known it and it's been frustrating but the strength of ill feeling in the general public could be a useful tool in our fight for justice.

Offline cowtownred

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2012, 10:50:16 am »
It's the fake self-serving apologies of the Bettisons and Patnicks we need to concentrate our anger on. Genuine people like the OP - well, we wanted to educate them and now we have, eh?

In one.

I recall handing out leaflets to the matchgoers on 'Truth Day'; and trying where possible to talk about ''Truth'' and the part played by McKenzie in dissemination of ''Truth''. I spent quite a long time in the Arkles with the Arsenal fans. Some were happy to engage, some were not. Many of those who talked were unwilling to consider that their opinions (media driven lets not forget) might be wrong; but at least a few were willing to go away and read through some of the material/links I gave them (particularly Kinki/Jim's HFD content).

The most frustrating memory of the day was the way that LIVERPOOL 'fans' ignored us at every turn. Some took the leaflets without any interest, and I watched as almost without exception dropped them seconds later.

Opposition fans weren't the only ones who went along with 'The Truth'.  Many of our own needed to be educated too.

Offline Fat Scouser

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Re: Solidarity from a fan of another club
« Reply #79 on: September 15, 2012, 10:53:38 am »
I can't qoute everyone that just answered me, but agree with what's been said. And like I said in me post, I thank gunnerstu, and all the other people like him for finally realising and appologising. And again, I want the thread to continue in the manner of goodwill that was intended. But Jrkopite stuck his neck out there. I wanted him to know he wasn't alone. I've done that. I've had my say. So, I'll leave it on track now.

Thank you, gunnerstu.
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