Topic: Round Roy we go Table WBA 0 - 2 Liverpool

[Hinesy]

So Carroll looks like he might be a player, and Luis gets a penalty and we don't get one that was and the woodwork is hit for the 10th time in a matter of weeks...
Carra is out and we keep a clean sheet. Related or not? And this isn't have a go at Jamie, but here's the questions...

Does Adam feel more authoritative without Stevie in the side, is the 'power' of Stevie cramping his style at all?
Do you really think its Kenny in Wonderland.. can Lewis Carroll can work together... (you know what I mean)
Tactically had we got it right? WBA aren't that easy to play against but at times we broke their defence easily, (& admittedly it must be said with the long ball for Andy over the top)

[Terry de Niro]

I never had any doubts about Carroll as a player.
He's never going to skin three defenders on the bounce then chip a sublime goal over the keeper.
What you see is what you get with him, and he was no different for Newcastle.
Him and Luiz given a run together will do them both the World of good.

Regarding Adam, I thought him and Gerrard looked decent enough together against the mancs.
I think Adam's biggest problem overall has been his fitness but he looked a lot sharper yesterday.
Hopefully that will continue.

I can't decide whether we were that good yesterday or West Brom were so poor.
If we had scored 5 or 6 it would have not surprised me at all.

Defensively we were sound and definitely played with a much higher line than we have done when Jamie has been on the pitch. Both Skrtel and Agger looked assured and rarely troubled by anything that was thrown at them.

My only beef would be that Downing looks as though he's trying too hard and should settle down a bit. Would I be alone in thinking that?

Overall a lot of positives for me which hopefully we'll carry on into the rest of the season.

[Danyaals Kop]

As far as hitting the post goes, luck ain't on our side, is it ?

Carragher out, and we keep a clean sheet. Surprise ? Not really considering West Brom's plan was hoofing most of the time and since our defensive line was so high - it did not cause much problem. The fullbacks got forward much more and Johnson had a really good game and linked up really well with Hendo and Suarez. Agger and Skrtel were solid and made some outstanding interceptions and clearances, Skrtel in particular had a wonderful game.

Gerrard playing or not - has not a lot of effect on Adam's game. He still makes those forward runs, drops back to support the defence if needed and plays those screaming fifty yard passes. It would be interesting to see a formation in which we play 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1.

Something like this :

                     Reina

Johnson   Skrtel   Agger   José

   Gerrard     Lucas      Adam

  Suarez      Carroll     Bellamy/Downing

or

                     Reina

Johnson   Skrtel  Agger    José

   Gerrard    Lucas   Adam

       Suarez         Downing

                  Carroll

Same thing.


Anyway, back to the hinesy's post.

Kenny will be in wonderland when Carroll scores, Downing assists and Suarez bags a couple... and we win the league, or just get in the top 4 for this season.

Tactically, we got it right. With all disrespect intended - their tactics and play were shit, not surprising since Roy's their manager. We exposed it, and scored and eventually won.

Overall, good performance and gives us confidence. Only negative is Downing.

Carroll was given time due to that hefty price tag and lack of experience.
Suarez since he needed to settle to the new league but he didn't need that and made an immediate impact.
José and Adam have shown us what they can do.

Given that he has played in the Premier League for years and is quite mature, Downing better show his ability now otherwise, the opportunity should be handed to other players.

[royhendo]

It was a delight to watch, I thought. Last week we were hearing "we need more control" from a lot of people, but the itch you could never quite scratch was the feeling that it was in large part rooted in our centre half selection (and has been for a few seasons).

2nd half against Stoke, we suddenly appeared as if we had more control, and so it continued yesterday evening. If you have reasonable comfort and pace in every position, the game becomes far less rigid - at least that's what I'd argue. People always used to take the piss out of this site's "total football mafia", but there it is - that's how I think the game should be played - not out of any sense of aesthetic snobbery - just the feeling that it's the most efficent, effective way of playing football.

I wrote an article midweek that might be up on The Anfield Wrap already to that effect. I'd rather we didn't wish for some false semblance of control, with a disproportionately strong midfield shield. Fair enough, we should always look to strengthen; but before we do, let's make ourselves equally strong in all departments, and figure out ways to play and complement each other on the park.

As if by magic, my wish of seeing this illustrated was granted, with Skrtel and Agger starting and Lucas and Adam deployed ahead of them, and hey presto we're looking a strong side without ever really getting out of third gear. 

Yeah, it was West Brom, I know, I know, but they're a combative side at home and we've demonstrated our ability to falter there in the past - just like we have at Stoke.

Balance applies just as much up the length of the side's spine as it does in any other respect, and if you slot in the right qualities at centre half, everything changes. That's my view of it anyway.

Carroll looked nice and sharp.

Chris Waddle always makes me laugh when he says "pelanty".

Pepe was El Capitan. That's something you could get used to.

[royhendo]

Oh, and while Skrtel and Henderson and Lucas did well, and despite the fact Kelly's great at right back (to say nowt of Flanno - we've all forgotten about him and Robinson), it's nice to see Glenjo galloping down that flank - he adds something. Enrique's a bit special, you have to say. He's got that way of fooling his marker he's about to turn back and look for an easy out ball, but he feints and turns and goes forward again. Great footballer.

[Aristotle]

I was delighted with the game. There was something extremely mundane about it, but sadly in our case a very rare thing. The fact that we had an away game and came away with 3 points without, relatively speaking, breaking a sweat has been something that's been missing for far too long. We looked rock solid in defence and even on those rare occasions they made it into the box I was never concerned. Sure it was "only" WBA but we've had a lot more problems in the past with the likes of them and it felt very reassuring.

But what I thought after the game was that there was no confusion. It was very simple, very elegant really. Everyone had a role to play, did it and went about their ways. There was a sense of unity about the way we played. Even when we made a mistake there was someone there to fill the gap. And to yet again bring up the most controversial topic of all, we did it without Carragher. And to blatantly rip off what the good doctor had already said.

[...] It's quite possible that a defence without Carragher in it plays with a lot more confidence, purely because it's probably nice for them to not be shouted and screamed at for 90+ minutes and blamed for everything that goes wrong. It's all Carra does all game long - point, shout, scream, point some more, scream, shout, hoof, scream, point, and then blame the nearest person to him when there's a mistake made, even when he's just as at fault.

[...] Both Skrtel and particularly Agger played with a smile on their faces today. They looked really comfortable with each other. Agger coming forward at will, Skrtel staying back, and the two of them just communicating and getting on with it. I can't remember a single instance during the game where either of them were screaming at each other to do something, they just did it.

That was just it. They seemed relatively happy. Even when the cross came and Agger did his bizarre ninja clearance they just laughed it off. And we looked much more assured on the ball. The way they passed the ball between midfield and defence maybe 5 times between them before crossing the center circle, both of the center backs taking the ball forward, both full backs showing up for the overlap. It wasn't perfect, but it was damn near what we should be aiming to achieve. It's how we should set up in the games where we are favourites. We are, or at the very least should be, the favourites in 25-30 games a season and should set up as such. I'm more than happy to have a fully rested Carragher on the pitch when we face Chelsea and watch him make an ever so slightly late challenge on that blonde striker they have. But in games where we have more than 50% of the ball throughout the game he has outgrown his usefulness and this game is about as decisive as one game can be.


One thing that doesn't sit right with me about this game though was Stewart Downing. He's become painfully aware of the fact that he hasn't scored or made an assist yet and he keeps trying way too hard to force his way out of that dry spell. Of course it's easier said than done, but he should just let it go, and go with the flow and the way he was playing in the beginning it will fall in his favour sooner than later. It was just so typical of his season so far that his shot near the end whistled off the post but that's just how it is and hopefully from here on until next Saturday he'll be putting in an extra hour a day on his shot and we'll see him (and us) rewarded for it in the long run.

[careca]

A game and a goal that Carroll needed. Looked more confident and actually part of things, passing, build up, lay off etc. Hope he gets a run out more regularly now. All confidence building - Good thread.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I think I am going to come across as an old curmudgeon here because I think the reaction to this game showed just how much everything is tainted by results.  Now I know that is obvious, results are, after all, what matter.  I actually thought it was our worst performance for a while.  We were sloppy with our final ball and despite dominating the game we didn't create as many chances as we have in recent weeks.  We controlled the game, but given the insipid resistance offered up by the opposition I don't think that was too difficult.

The bright side, other than the three points is to step back and look at the bigger picture, 12 months ago we were playing just like West Brom.  Christian Poulsen was making Charlie Adam look like Theo Walcott and we were being taken apart at home by Blackpool.  The ease with which we dismantled our former selves speaks volumes for the progress that Kenny has made in 10 months in charge.

Addressing some of the points above.  Carroll seems to be starting to find his feet.  He finds them rooted to the spot too often for my liking though.  Once again he seems to be on his heels when he should be on his toes or attacking the ball.  There was one notable instance in the first half, long cross over the box to Henderson beyond the six yard box, lad neatly cushion volleys it back across the goal.  AC is standing just outside the six yard box watching rather than anticipating.  Gamble on a run across the front of the keeper and you've got yourself a two yard tap in there lad.  Hopefully he can kick on from the goal, which was Carroll encapsulated in one moment.  Good run into space, dreadful first touch, sublime finish.

On the defence, I too would like Agger and Skrtel to become our first choice pairing (if Agger can stay fit, please) but I think this desire is seriously influencing how people are analysing their performance.  The line was no higher yesterday than it was against Norwich a week earlier, the only differences were that West Brom lacked the wit or the verve to exploit the space in front of them and when they tried then Lucas was back in that hole diligently mopping up and prompting as ever. 

Don't take my word for it though...


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[Hinesy]

Show off. 

[Brian Blessed]

To address the Carra thing in the OP. The Skrtel/Agger combo is one I've wanted for years, but I can't read too much into the clean sheet. After all, this was WBA, and they were missing their top scorer. I'm optimistic, but it's very tempered at the minute.

[John C]

Can we play you every week, should have been final thought of all Reds after that game, I really don’t recall seeing a side play so badly in the PL. I said to my lad at half time it will be interesting to see how Hodgson will re-arrange his team to enable them to compete. Indeed wholesale rearrangement wasn’t even necessary, the hairdryer treatment on slow and cold should have been sufficient. So my interest turned to hysterical laughter when WBA re-emerged as bad and as disorganised for the second half. It was a thorough pleasure to watch our players able to relax on the ball, take a couple of touches and pick a pass.

If time and space was the WBA players gift to Liverpool, Hodgson’s antics on the sideline was his gift to us. If we’d have contacted him before the game and said ‘go on Roy, make us laugh’ he couldn’t have done a better job of it. Hilarious.

But we really need to put this game in to perspective; it was a very welcome and enjoyable away win against, quite frankly, a shit team. I know we can only beat what’s in-front of us but likewise we can only kill-off what’s in-front of us and we should have pummelled those fuckers. I did worry slightly before the second goal arrived. That said, I think we were denied two other pens for the shove on Carroll and the handball off Carroll’s header.

So without having to even change up to 3rd gear our lads were solid individually and as a team. Agger & Skrtel did play well together despite the need to be circumspect about the quality of the opposition. So as a Skrtel critique I have to admit that he was my man of the match – as bad as WBA were he was called upon to tackle and tidy up which he did without fault (well, there was one error). I’d be interested to see some official stats on how high or low this much spoken of defensive line was with a different pairing.

Has everybody noticed the narrative on Charlie Adam’s fitness levels has been snuffed out like Jimmy Saville’s cigar, he’s put in some good 90 minute performances lately.

I was genuinely delighted for Carroll getting his goal and when Suarez is more forgiving on himself I’m sure he’ll get more service from hopefully his long term partner. Suarez has such eagerness to make amends for missed chances and wants to do it all himself at times. His ability to create his own chances still makes him uncontrollable and if he regains his Ajax days accuracy he’ll be lethal.

Every other player also had good games without having to trouble themselves too much. There’s plenty more to come from Downing and Bellamy and the inevitable improvement of Henderson under Kenny and this bunch of players around him. And of course our captain should also be ever-present in due course.

I also have to concur with something yorkykopite said today pertaining to build ups from the opposition, its reassuring when you see the white strapping on Lucas’s ankles arrive on the scene. I got that exact feeling yesterday when they had a 3 minute spell.

Enjoy the feeling this result brings, because their tougher tests ahead.

[CHOPPER]

Enjoyed the second half the most even though there was no goals. I enjoyed the way we dictated the play and looked like we had more gears left in us.
A confident, controlled and professional performance. Few and far between over the last few years on our travels but hopefully there are more to follow.

8/10

[nocturnalvin]

I missed the first half so my comments are going to be brief and avoid repeating what has been said.

Alot has been said about the Agger/Skrt axis, I am surprised no one has mentioned much about the defensive cohesiveness. It was a joy to watch as players move to cover for each other. Very well drilled and organised and professional. It mattered more than if Carra was playing. Or not.

 Not sure if its third gear but whatever gear we are in, it felt like one of the Carling cup games we have had this season. We were in control and could move one or two gears up if we want to.

Carroll it seems continue to play deeper than Suarez. He is still far from his best.
Henderson played well, and he is a really really good player in my opinion. Doesnt do the unnecessary and always on the move.

Feels really good to have beaten them, unfortunately they have become one of my most hated teams, no thanks to the self-serving manager whom i absolutely detest.

[CHOPPER]

Have to say as well, their fans really are small time bellends. Whinge like fuck.

[Red_Isle_Chap]

One thing that I think needs to be stressed is having Glen Johnson back and more importantly fit. I can't wait until he's completely up to fitness as he makes a massive, massive difference to us going forward, especially with Enrique on the opposite side, we suddenly become a much bigger threat. You could see the rust in his play at times, but when he's up and running properly he's another asset that will help to get the best out of our front men.

The lads were excellent,  WBA were very, very poor, but I was delighted with the 3 points. I don't want to repeat a lot of what's already been said as most of it is spot on.

[SMD]

Stoke away, we played well, created lots of chances, dominated possession and were undone by our lack of finishing and a moment of idiocy in the penalty box.

West Brom away, we play like it's a practice match, sloppy in possession yet finally get a decision given legitimately and Carroll rescues what would've been a horrible waste of a good chance.

We're still inconsistent in front of goal, we're still prone to sloppy behaviour in defence (their first chance came from us faffing about and Skrtel completely missing his clearance) and I'm still not convinced as to our defensive solidity at the back. That a clean sheet is a welcome surprise shows how low our standards are these days. Skrtel looked more assured yet still isn't as solid as he should be. Agger was dominant but that really shouldn't come as any sort of revelation. He's our best centre back and Martin edges out Carragher in terms of pace and agility. Honestly, on merit I wouldn't start either of them alongside our great Dane but we don't really have the strength in depth at centre back to do that. I don't think Kelly is ready for it, let alone week in week out and Kenny just doesn't seem to fancy Wilson. I'm still not a fan of Skrtel in the air either. That we had a clean sheet was equally to do with West Brom's inability to show any cutting edge up front. They looked so bad but for once, we didn't make them look bad. They were just genuinely shit.

The defending for our second goal was hilariously bad. What pleased me the most about Carroll's goal wasn't the finish but the desire. Too many times during the past year with us, he seems to wait for things to happen. Granted he's isolated quite a lot and tends to have to deal with a lot of hoofs coming at him but as VdM said, he just doesn't seem to be on his toes for a lot of the game. It's not like he's unable, he just doesn't seem to push himself out of his comfort zone. Evidently Kenny's felt the same way because he looked more animated, though still not at the level we want him at.

Adam was alright in my opinion. I still think he's not playing too intelligently, first ten minutes he seemed to just be belting the ball without really considering play. Henderson and Downing as well seem a touch afflicted at times, though the latter is looking more assured and more confident than the beginning of the season. He still isn't totally on the same wavelength as everyone else and suffers from that rabbit in headlights issue that's plagued his positioning but it's been a positive week for him. Downing...well, he needs to stop worrying about his goal/assist stat and focus on consistency. He's faded since his promising start and honestly he's starting to get on my nerves. He just needs to put the effort in and keep trying to marshall his flank. He doesn't have to take people on constantly but he needs to stop losing the ball and giving up.

Lucas is fucking boss. It just needs to be said.

[Alf]

Carroll and Suarez have begun to look like a pairing during last weeks games. We get a penalty while the referee bottled giving another one having taken the word of the linesman and then getting an attack of conscience afterwards.

Our defence plays a higher line when Carra doesn't play. We had 59% of possession yesterday and kept a clean sheet so I'd keep the same back 4 against Swansea regardless of Carragher's fitness.

I'm not certain Adam and Gerrard can play together in central midfield in a 4-4-2 and the team a lot better balanced with Lucas playing.

[Yorkykopite]

To address the Carra thing in the OP. The Skrtel/Agger combo is one I've wanted for years

How many times have these two played together in the League (as co-centre backs)? Anyone know? I remember thinking years ago that Agger and Skrtel would become our defensive mainstay. It never happened. Sadly for Skrtel I don't think it ever will. The question now is whether Carragher will see off Coates as well.

I doubt it somehow. The clock is ticking down.

It wasn't just the 'nonsense' defending that was better yesterday. That's to say the comfort on the ball and the ability to move with it while it's at your feet. It was the 'no-nonsense' stuff too. We were sharper into the tackle, we got closer to their strikers and we choked off attacks before they could breathe properly. Skrtel still can't head a ball (tho Jamie doesn't do much of that these days). He still turns his head away from the ball at the last moment because he doesn't want to get hurt. But he looked ok. And, let's face it, why wouldn't you when you have Agger next door?

The other great omission from the line-up was Kuyt of course. And for the second game running we showed more fluency and creativity in attack. All our forwards had pace. There was none of that agonising turning backwards into the tackle because you know you don't have the pace or sharpness to accelerate away from danger. No one was stationary either when Suarez had the ball, which Kuyt is all too prone to be (lost in admiration? Or lost in confusion?) Is it too much to think that Kuyt's days are numbered too under Kenny? If he can't get on the pitch when Steven Gerrard is unavailable, then that's a good sign.

The result was never in doubt after we scored. In that sense it was the most comfortable victory this season. Sure, we should have scored more. For all the times we isolated their central defenders and got them on the back foot it was criminal that we didn't convert any more than 2. But we looked a force and we looked dangerous. It looked like a Dalglish team out there yesterday.

Downing's fine. I wouldn't underestimate the amount of work he did on the left in pushing WBA backwards - especially in the second half. For an away fixture that was impressive. There's room for an improvement with him. I'm confident it will come. Then we'll see another dimension to our attacking play.

It's been a really good week for the club.

[Corkboy]

Every football match is a thing in and of itself, never to be repeated, so it’s sometimes difficult to say why what happened did in fact happen.

West Brom have been doing well under Mr Hodgson (whose Football Focus piece both appalled me and reminded me what sort of a man he is) and that makes their display that much more baffling because they were supine for most of the game. I cannot believe a manager of Mr Hodgson’s experience told his team to go out and give the oppo about five yards with the ball, all the time. You know, be welcoming.

So this inevitably made our task lighter and it was no surprise that when we lost the ball, we snarled to get it back what with all the extra energy from having the ball. Or was it the other way? Were we so good, they didn’t dare go near us? Or was our passing of such a quality that it looked like we had five yards every which way? Hard to tell. But we are beginning to know some things with a bit more confidence.

Suarez is a force of nature. Lucas is an invisible force of nature. I know this because commentators don’t seem to be able to see him, which is hard to understand, given how often he is the most influential player on the park.

Henderson and Carroll are maturing nicely while Downing has stalled. He really did very little right until late on when he was unlucky with the strike. If it had gone in, maybe it would have kicked him on a bit. Who knows.

Johnson showed well, and in terms of comparison to Kelly, he has a little bit more devilment going forward. Enrique, I thought, had a rather more unbalanced game than normal. Perhaps our left side is coming down with something.

Away wins? All the time, baby.

[royhendo]

Bloody chalkboards. The page won't load!

[John C]

Just to add that considering how dominant we were and how much possession we had, I think we were a bit wasteful with the ball in the final third.

[Neil D]

The other great omission from the line-up was Kuyt of course. And for the second game running we showed more fluency and creativity in attack. All our forwards had pace. There was none of that agonising turning backwards into the tackle because you know you don't have the pace or sharpness to accelerate away from danger. No one was stationary either when Suarez had the ball, which Kuyt is all too prone to be (lost in admiration? Or lost in confusion?) Is it too much to think that Kuyt's days are numbered too under Kenny? If he can't get on the pitch when Steven Gerrard is unavailable, then that's a good sign.

Kuyt is very rarely stationary without the ball, whether Suarez has it or anybody else. He is always moving, looking for openings and finding and creating space by dragging defenders with his runs. Would much rather have seen him in attack yesterday than Downing or Henderson who were both average out wide, not particularly poor in Henderson's case as he kept things moving nicely, but certainly in Downing's largely ineffectual in the final third. Perhaps with Dirk's involvement, his movement and finishing we could have scored the three, four or five goals our dominance warranted. I don't think we showed more fluency and creativity in attack against Stoke or West Brom than we did against Norwich or United. Suarez just scored some of his many chances in both games and that got us the win.

Kenny is using our players wisely. Will be very surprised if Dirk is not back for sterner tests against Chelsea and City in the coming weeks.

[steveeastend]

It wasn´t a great PL game of football to watch in contrast to the Norwich game. But it for sure was a great performance and again showed the progress we clearly made since..

Working together as a unit for defending, helping your team mate, trying to pass the ball and not wasting it, sticking to your position and show discipline over the entire 90 minutes... we all did that. And that´s the basics for everything, no matter how far up we might defend or not.

The field was pretty narrow, no rooms to make runs into, especially on the wing, which made it very hard to play for possession, on the other hand it was easier to defend.

The fact the we did sit deep in the second half didn´t worry me at all, I think it just happened as the game went along, being two goals up and a lot getting tired from the Stoke game.

I thought Carroll again showed an improved performance and I am curious how far he will be able to raise his game. Enrique and Downing, well... I dunno... although the small pitch didn´t play to Downings strength and probably showed that Kenny expects him to be more than just running down the wing and cross..

I think our next game will show a lot of the positives from the last games coming together... discipline in defense, pushing up the pitch and pass and move on a much higher level and I am curious how our players will adopt to raising our game again.

Swansea, here we come...

[Niru Red4ever]

Just a comment about about hitting the post - IMO its not bad luck when you directly hit the post. It is bad luck when your shot on target is deflected onto the woodwork; like it happened twice with Suarez against Norwich.

Kuyt is very rarely stationary without the ball, whether Suarez has it or anybody else. He is always moving, looking for openings and finding and creating space by dragging defenders with his runs.

In the Everton match; Kuyt passed the ball upfield and ran all the way into the opposition penalty box and ducked out of the way before Carroll's goal. I don't mind seeing a out of form player like Downing playing in an easy match to get better. What I am worried though is what other players on the bench feel on being left out regularly for him (I am particularly thinking of Maxi; Kuyt has played his fair share in recent days, and to a lesser extent Bellamy too).

If Downing's shot had gone in that would have gone in that would have masked his performance and done his confidence a world of good. It seems to have hit rock bottom in th elast few matches.

[John C]

Interesting that VdM, although Agger's stats may contradict it, but Skrtel's stats seem to suggest we played deep yesterday - am I reading that correctly?

[leivapool]

Fristly, how poor were West Brom?  I mean, I know Long is out an' all, but they didn't even show up.  Bit of a surprise if I'm honest, and although we played OK, I don't think it was our great play that killed West Brom, they never turned up in either half.  So much so, that it's hard to really know where we are after this performance.

Certainly the defence looked better, and we actually caught West Brom offside more than once.  That's a positive for me.  Although Agger and 1 of Skrtel/Coates are my preferred CB pairings, they didn't really receive a stern examination did they!

The midfield did OK, I'm still not at all sure about Adam, and his decision making is rash at times.  He seems to always want to force the play and push a ridiculous (often overhit) pass when maintaining possession and waiting to play the killer ball would be the better option.  Having said that he took the penalty well.  One concern I do have though is that there isn't anyone linking the midfield and the attack like Meireles used to do so well.  Often when Lucas had the ball it was Suarez who made the space to receive the pass, and he was often too deep to cause as much damage as he would higher up the pitch.  Hopefully when Gerrard is fit this problem will decline, but it isn't the first time I've seen it this season.

Others have commented on Downing, and I am starting to struggle to see why Maxi isn't getting a fair crack of the whip.  He was really good against Stoke, and links up with Suarez as well as anyone in our squad.  Also, seeing Downing and Enrique  running up the wing side by side as if they are a pair of carriage horses reined together makes me want to stick pins in my eyes.  Move into different space lads, if one is going up the wing, chose to go inside, seriously, you are supposed to be professional footballers.  At one point in the game Enrique, whilst running with the ball had to point to Downing to show him where to go.  In contrast Maxi naturally tucks in, so he would surely compliment Enrique more?

I'm happy that Carroll and Henderson are getting their chance.  Both have attributes we need in our squad, and I like Andy's attitude.  Not everything is going his way, but he is showing a bit of character.  Henderson has real quality, and his work ethic and the speed he covers the ground was much in evidence in this match.

I'll end by saying Lucas, what a ball.  I mean seriously, it didn't hardly get a mention on MOTD or ESPN, but when Suarez hit one similar the other week everyone was creaming themselves.  Without that pass the goal would never have happened, and it was truly excellent technique.

[Pistolero]

I'll end by saying Lucas, what a ball.  I mean seriously, it didn't hardly get a mention on MOTD or ESPN, but when Suarez hit one similar the other week everyone was creaming themselves.  Without that pass the goal would never have happened, and it was truly excellent technique.

to be fair to Suarez he still had a bit of work to do to set Carroll up from there...his first time slide rule pass was almost as good as the one that preceded it...

[Garcepticon]

Don't take my word for it though...


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Hang on one second ...

These graphs don't show what you have just said! Agger made a total of 19% of his passes in the deepest quadrants, Carragher however, made 32% of his passes from that area last week. Thus you can quite clearly see that Agger made 13% of his passes higher up the pitch than Carragher did- therefore we DID play with a higher line. Why not use the average position heatmap?

Unless i'm missing the sarcasm, you've bloody murdered those graphs there. Amateur 

[steveeastend]

Interesting that VdM, although Agger's stats may contradict it, but Skrtel's stats seem to suggest we played deep yesterday - am I reading that correctly?

We did play deep yesterday (in the second half) but this wasn´t the point yesterday and not when it comes to the comparison with Carra.

One of the problems with Carra, compared to Skrtel or Agger is that he constantly let himself drop behind the defensive line and by doing so spreads the team apart whereas it should be the opposite, making it as narrow as possible. It doesn´t matter where this happens, it´s a nightmare for the other defender, no matter how far up, or deep sitting it might happen.

Sitting deep shouldn´t be a problem against the likes of Westbrom as they are lacking the class to break our defense as long as we keep the discipline in closing down and making it narrow. We were tired and two goals up, no problems to expect from a team like West Brom.

It would be the wrong thing to do against the likes of Man City though...

[Corkboy]

to be fair to Suarez he still had a bit of work to do to set Carroll up from there...his first time slide rule pass was almost as good as the one that preceded it...

They were two awesome passes but as I said, Lucas is invisible.

[leivapool]

to be fair to Suarez he still had a bit of work to do to set Carroll up from there...his first time slide rule pass was almost as good as the one that preceded it...

I agree, my point was more that everyone noticed Suarez pass and he got the assist, whereas nobody mentioned the technique and vision Lucas needed to make the first pass.

[Gnurglan]

Just watched a replay. We were very solid at the back. In the first half, we were only put under pressure once and it was after we put ourselves in a bit of trouble with a freekick in our own half. Surprised WBA didn't even try to put pressure on our defence when we had the ball. They also had one shot from the center, but that was about it. We went for attacks down the right and we liked the quick ball up in the center, but hardly anything was played down the left. I think the 2-0 goal is exactly how we planned to play. In the second we attacked more down the left. We had plenty of opportunities to run at their defence, often fairly central, but we wasted them. Still stayed solid at the back. Adam and Lucas looked better than when we played Gerrard and Adam as they did not leave any space between themselves and our defence. That part of the game looked a lot better.
The way we went down the right in the first half made me think that we actually wanted to use Downing in a more defensive role. That our plan wasn't to set him up for those crosses to Carroll. It was rather Henderson who was supposed to deliver them.
I don't think pace was an issue. The plan was maybe to use Suarez' pace, but not the wide midfielders'. It was our strikers who chased the balls down the flanks and both Carroll and Suarez were very active.

From the past couple of games, it seems to me that we really intend to play a quick, counter-attacking game. It has not looked like a very sophisticated pass and move type of game is the way for us, rather a fairly basic approach. BUT we have created lots of chances that way. The only worry I have is that Suarez is involved in everything. We really need other players to ease his burden. I also believe we are getting better at using Carroll. Vs WBA we had more variation in our passes to him and he was more mobile. The next step for us is to get our wide midfielders more involved. I think they have fairly passiv roles, almost as if all our midfielders contribute equally to the attacking threat (bar Lucas).

[Eeyore]

I can't believe the way West Brom are being portrayed as an awful side, prior to yesterday they were on a four game unbeaten run, have pushed United and Chelsea all the way in there other games against the top sides and if they had won yesterday like they did towards the end of last season they would be one point behind us.

For much of the last couple of seasons visits to places like the Hawthorns have ended in grim defeats. I thought we were excellent yesterday we were absolutely rock solid in defence, controlled the midfield and were bright and inventive upfront.

Hodgson's sides regularly concede possession and territory but are very hard to break down and very good at isolating their pacey forwards against your centre backs and always cause the top sides problems.

We dominated the game as we have dominated virtually every game bar the Spurs game this season, the difference for me was that when the opposition did get a sniff of creating something we were far more aggressive defensively.

Instead of dropping off Skrtel and Agger got very tight and get their challenges in early and aggressively and set the tone for an evening of domination.

[SMD]

Al, they were awful. They looked so disinterested and disorganised you couldn't tell it was even a feted Hodgson line up.

[royhendo]

I wrote an article midweek that might be up on The Anfield Wrap already to that effect. I'd rather we didn't wish for some false semblance of control, with a disproportionately strong midfield shield. Fair enough, we should always look to strengthen; but before we do, let's make ourselves equally strong in all departments, and figure out ways to play and complement each other on the park.

This was it, if you're interested: http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/10/lord-grant-me-chastity-and-continence-but-not-yet/

[MolbyLovesGravlax]

Thought we were good, but not exceptional. Thought they were beyond awful. How much of that was just them and how much it was us making them look bad is up for debate, but it was the first game this season I had no sense of worry about them getting back at us.
Would like to see Agger and Skrtel develop as a partnership. Nothing against Carra who still still has a big part to play this season, but they deserve a chance to show they can become a partnership. Likewise I trust Kenny 100% but I hope we don't drop Carroll, he needs a good run with Suarez, and when they are both fully fit is the time to do it. I am sure Carroll will have poor games, he is at that stage where he can put in a poor performance right after a promising one, but we can already see what can happen as they get used to each other. Carroll's flick got Suarez in a one-on-one situation multiple times yesterday. Sure they were all offsides, but sooner or later that would change. And if Henderson had vollyed in that ball Caroll headed back to him we would have been talking about one fantastic move.
Watching in the US we had Paul Walsh as the commentator and all he did was knock Carroll, even on the goal he gave him zero credit (except when one angle showed it was a great finish, but that was soon changed) just kept being critical of his first touch over and over not mentioning the actual fact he followed up that poor touch with an actual fine finish, and did what we need him to do, convert a chance.
Next week it is Swansea who like to actually play football and keep possesion and pass the ball around. Should lead to an open game where we have plenty of chances, so it may be a game where we get to look good.
 

[Aristotle]

He still turns his head away from the ball at the last moment because he doesn't want to get hurt. But he looked ok. And, let's face it, why wouldn't you when you have Agger next door?

It's one thing I noticed that he never got back after his knee injury. That swagger and belief he's invincible. Having gone through virtually the exact thing twice, except I landed on hardwood and not grass and I know the pain but mostly I know the selfconscious feeling of trying to avoid it. Probably more so as my second one ended my 8 month long professional sporting career. Even to this day, and it's been 4 years since it happened, I trend incredibly carefully even doing things like stepping down from a chair. If his experience was ever like mine, or any of the others I've spoken to that went through the same thing I don't think that indecisiveness will ever change personally.

[Yorkykopite]

It's one thing I noticed that he never got back after his knee injury. That swagger and belief he's invincible. Having gone through virtually the exact thing twice, except I landed on hardwood and not grass and I know the pain but mostly I know the selfconscious feeling of trying to avoid it. Probably more so as my second one ended my 8 month long professional sporting career. Even to this day, and it's been 4 years since it happened, I trend incredibly carefully even doing things like stepping down from a chair. If his experience was ever like mine, or any of the others I've spoken to that went through the same thing I don't think that indecisiveness will ever change personally.

Yes, the ghost of an injury that refuses to be exorcised. I can see that mate.

I've never been convinced by Skrtel's heading technique though. Right from the start there was something lacking. In a word it was courage. He often rises with his head tucked into his shoulders - the classic giveaway sign of the player who doesn't really want to nut it. And we all remember the kung-fu kick v Man City at whatever they call that stadium. Many Reds saw that and concluded that Skrtel was a tough bastard. I thought the opposite. It seemed to show how soft he was. He'd rather lead with the leg than the head, even when the ball is in the air. Subsequently he's been caught by photographers doing a similar thing. 'Flying Ninja' cry the faithful. 'Big wet Pussy-Cat' is closer to the truth.

I think Coates is different though. He's brave. He put his nut where the crackers where a few times v Stoke!

[No666]

This was it, if you're interested: http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/10/lord-grant-me-chastity-and-continence-but-not-yet/

Excellent stuff, mate.

A taster:

The entire spine of a side needs coordination and balance, not just the midfield. If one part of the spinal unit is out of kilter, it should be no surprise that a disc gets thrown out from time to time. And the longer you work within the context of those limitations, the more slipped discs you’ll see. Midfield openness and central defensive vulnerability – they’re two sides of the same coin. You can address one, or address the other, but ultimately it’s best if you address both: the chastity belt and braces, and the incontinence pants.

[Sangria]

I agree, my point was more that everyone noticed Suarez pass and he got the assist, whereas nobody mentioned the technique and vision Lucas needed to make the first pass.

Just to add to that, watch how he check drives it with the front of his foot in typically Brazilian fashion. A European style pass with the instep would have taken a split second longer to execute, not to mention telegraphing the direction of the pass. And because he checked the drive, he manages to get some fade on the ball as well.