Author Topic: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate  (Read 20757 times)

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« on: December 15, 2012, 06:48:26 pm »
Most people have one, that club for which they have a barely rational hatred.  A passionate dislike for a side that are not a rival either geographically or in recent big games.  Well I fucking detest Aston Villa

I hate them, I hate their badly dressed fans and their depressed village idiot accent.  I hate the fact it takes them two hours to get a sentence out.  I hate their songs.  I hate their kit.  I hate their shitty ground. I hate Stanley Collymore kissing their  badge in front of us. I hate their baboon's arse faced violin playing celebrity fans, I hate the fact that they have somehow won a European Cup despite being the epitomy of underachievement for half a century.  I hate the fact that as a kid I crashed my dad's Cavalier, borrowed for the day, on the way to Villa Park.  I hate the fact that when we finally did get to the ground we somehow managed to lose to that c*nt Pardew and Crystal Palace. 

I hate the fact their fans came to Anfield and sang about their equally hateful city cousins in blue.  Fuck of Villa.

So, opening question, which club is your irrational hate?

And main question, blip or reality check?
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Offline Degs

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 07:24:35 pm »
Irrational hatred:  Wolves

Blip or reality check? Most definitely a reality check.

I focussed my preview for the match on the larger issues at hand that both clubs share - foreign owners who have failed to deliver in recent transfer windows.  I was criticised by some for not simply going along with the short sighted "But it's OK we're winning now" crowd but until we can upgrade the squad what happened today will be repeated by any team with a manager who is tactically aware enough to see what Lambert saw today and what we've seen all season.

Before I get into the match I'll say this, I called Benteke mediocre before the match, and while I still think he'll go on to be just another "Good Premiership player" I'm willing to admit he is alot better than I gave him credit for (even if his job was made very easy today).

The difference today was that in summer Aston Villa brought in a manager who would play within the team's limitations while Brendan Rodgers continues to impose his "philosophy" in spite of our limitations.  In the first 20 minutes we were the better team, but as ever all of the huffing and puffing was useless without people taking shots.  After the game Rodgers said he couldn't quite put his finger on what went wrong, I'm sure if he asked Paul Lambert he'd tell him - Liverpool are easy to prepare against.  Take 9 of your players and place them behind the ball and within the width of the penalty area (don't worry about crosses as there will be nobody in there to take them), sit back and allow Liverpool to play the ball sideways until one of the players gives it away, break fast against their high line.

With this in mind Lambert had Benteke use his strength to hold up the ball and the youthful legs of Barry Bannan (who has the running action of a child chasing the ice cream van), Andreas Weimann and co. to get up the pitch.

Not for the first time this season the encouragement from Rodgers to play football all over the park resulted in us needlessly giving the ball away with a shocking Suarez back-heel on the halfway line before allowing Benteke all the time to get himself set for the shot.  Maybe our players started believing their own hype, Rodgers was only mentioning second position this weekend, but for some reason they decided to not bother pressing Benteke despite him often being isolted up front.

Hopefully Brendan's post-match interview, in which he deplores the "cheap" goals we conceded, is the start of a time when he will hold players responsible for arsing around with backheels in their own half (Joe Cole did it twice last weekend)  rather than simply taking the flak for his "style" of football.

As the 2nd goal went in a familiar pattern emerged of a frustrating inability to score.  The front 3 (including 1 central midfielder) didn't look likely to score, Gerrard was too far away from the ball, and the relentless crosses were, as ever, never taken notice of by our players in the box.

At half time the lads around me discussed how we get back into the game.  For 15 minutes there was talk of bringing Gerrard off or pushing him forward, bringing Henderson on, switching Shelvey to the middle, of going to 3-5-2, of bringing on Suso, not once did I hear the name of Joe Cole.  Last weekend Rodger's blushes were spared when Joe Cole's goal disguised an otherwise very poor substitution.  Minutes after Cole came on last week he needlessly gave the ball away, twice, in dangerous areas and today was the same but with more devastating consequences.  Again Benteke finished well but again there was no pressure.

In employing Rodgers FSG went for a man with a footballing style and philosophy, that's why he got the job.  They have already fucked him over in 1 transfer window and as we lurch towards another the names growing louder are not proven goalscorers like Theo Walcott but again it's players who may yet be good...possibly (Ince and Sturridge).  FSG cannot have it both ways in appointing a manager with a footballing style they want to see and then pulling the rug from under his feet when he tries to do so.

At least Andy Carroll will be smiling knowing that a 6 foot 4 lone striker who can hold the ball up does have a place at Anfield, even if it's only in opposition.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 07:26:57 pm by Degs the halls with boughs of holly »

Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 09:27:51 pm »
That was a difficult watch wasn't it?

The question ive found myself asking is this.

Did Rodgers get it wrong, or should we be directing more scrutiny towards the players?

The reason its this question above any other that's circulating through my head is because before that first goal went in we were all over them. Now it may just be because what followed was so bad, but my recollection is that was absolutely battered them in that first half an hour.

They couldnt live with us. Now, there isnt a particular chance i can point to and say, that was it, that was the chance. Not one that I can remember at least. But there was lots of half chances lots of good play that made you believe the goal was coming.

It just never did.

Was that Rodgers getting it right? It certainly didnt look wrong.

What came to follow was a total collapse. Their goal was a total bolt from the blue given our dominance and it was plain as day to see the feeling of "We've just had our chances, and we dont often have two goals in us" spread throughout the squad like gossip at an xmas party. Things changed, and the level of play wasnt the same.

But how much of that is down to Brendan? He can only do so much, he set the team up. He prepared them. And up until a single moment of adverse play, it was working very well.

Ive had my say on Rodgers, im not been convinced by him yet. I dont think 3 defenders on the bench was very smart, for this very reason. I dont think his persistence with playing out of form personnel is ideal. I dont think he's show the level of pragmatism needed to manage at the level we wish to rise to.

But those things aside, he cannot help the sort of individual errors players such as Skrtel (Man City) Downing (Spurs) Gerrard (Arsenal) or the collective fuck ups provided today.

Those individual mistake have undoubtedly contributed to the situation, and position, we find ourselves in. Can you honestly put them at his door?

Maybe you can. Downing isnt a left back and his 'philosophy' is inherently risky when asking players not suited to it to attempt to try. But i cant help but think the margins are incredibly fine. Its a case of a little from column 'a' and a little from column 'b'.

But I do think he's been let down on occasion. Important, telling, occasions. At 0-1 today he was let down. Those on the pitch capitulated and shrunk.

Now it does fall on Rodgers though. Its up to him to crack the heads that need cracking, nobody else can drop the players that dont deserve to be picked for the next game and only he and his staff (Peters) can instil the sort of mentality that is so obviously lacking.

The comeback against West Ham papered over the cracks of another poor performance. Another performance where we as a team peaked inside the first 20-30 mins.

Patterns are starting to emerge. Its one thing spotting them, addressing them is a whole other matter.

I'll allow Rodgers some rope by recognising his players are letting him down at times. Whether he uses that rope to tie up the main offenders, or ends up hoisted by his own petard by refusing to acknowledging or not rectifying the issues bourn out of his philosophy/management is down to him.

Offline Jake

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 10:00:53 pm »
Rodgers got it right, in Rodgers system we had more chances than the other team. If we had the exact same finishing and goalkeeping, then we would have won, right?

It was the players who missed all the chances, it was the goalkeeper who let in the goals, etc.

I know this is a simplistic view and not a big ol' post that the round table deserves, but I just cannot fathom how that loss was Rodgers' fault. Sure some of the players he selected weren't the ones I would have chosen, but we played better than the opposition as a team, it was the player's fault we didn't win.

Actually, we had three center backs on the bench? Against a team we should have battered. This I feel was a mistake by Brendan.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 10:08:49 pm by Le Christmas jCake »
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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 11:48:04 pm »
This was one of the strangest games I've ever experienced. I mean we've had some absolute stinkers, we've been utterly pathetic and hopeless on far too many occasions. More than I'd like to remember. But today was something entirely new. We were simultaniously shit and amazing. For those first 20 odd minutes we ran circles around them - the problem was we ran the same fucking circles every time. We're also getting predictably good, what worked before has become preventable. Teams no longer try to stop us, they simply contain us, limit our options because the sad fact of the matter as current it seems that we're more likely to damage ourselves than the opposition. We were allowed how many crosses today 30? 40? There were a lot of our players who had a bad day at the office. Suarez was wasteful and frankly off pace. He was dangerous but there were the times where he set up Gerrard and over hit it, Gerrard and they intercepted, Shelvey's hair-pulling lethargy when Suarez set him up with a free shot. So from then on he did it all himself and came up short. He gave his team mates 4-5 opportunities to score, they couldn't even hit the ball on goal so he got in a situation, the same one he has found himself in far too often, that if he doesn't score today, no one will. Sterling similarly I thought was terrible. Was he distracted by contract situation? I don't know, nor do I care. He is an exceptional player, you can tell. But what he did was so predictable. He took on his marker but then never produced anything, there were also a number of times where he simply stood and watched when Suarez was in possession. You can't really blame him, with a front row seat I'd pay attention too. But when your main attribute is pace (at this point) and you let a club footed Aston Villa back 4 get goal side of you every single time the ball found it's way into the box there's something missing. Sterling wasn't that bad, but whether fatigue (mental and physical) or PR stress because of his contract, the lights were on but there was no one at the wheel. Shelvey and Gerrard in classic Shelvey and Gerrard fashioned managed to be the exact same person. Always likely to score with the ball, then just idly biding their time until someone passed them the ball again. There were a number of times where I watched Gerrard and just felt sad. I went over a lot of his old videos when he was in the advent players. And to look at him in his prime and then see him in pain after taking a corner is just depressing, I can't even fathom what it must be like for him. The degression from captain invincible to captain invisible happening before his very eyes on a weekly basis.

Lucas made a key difference at times, breaking up the counter but he's terribly unfit in terms of match sharpness and endurance and even top notch positioning can't help you cope with the 1/10 unlucky bounce when he was beaten for pace. I could go into more details but it feels pointless. This was a one off in my books. Benteke's first goal was great, don't think any keeper would've stopped that. Their 2nd was as good for them as it was shit from us. The 3rd I'm still in disbelief over. I still think Rodgers will come good once he trusts others to do their part. I thought Allen was bad today - he's still an excellent player but he's become more focused on being the personalization of 'death by football' than taking the off chance. There were at least 3 opportunities where he should've gone for goal but didn't. I know that is his role, but sometimes and especially when trailing by 3 goals, sometimes you just have to say 'fuck it' and shoot from 30 yards out. He's got the technical skills and ability to do so he just seems intimidated, much in the way Lucas does. He's making the transformation from ultimate team player over the top. Allen today looks like a player who would be happy to never score a goal again. That's fine when you're winning games, but when you're lacking goals it's not about how good the player is but whether he brings something to the table. Nuri Sahin for all his temporary adjustment problems (I refuse to say faults) would've at least tried to shoot it outside the box. We simply passed it to the wings, where nothing happened, drew our players out of the box to keep possession and then once the opportunity presented itself there was no one to convert. Which makes it all the more puzzling why Suso never featured, considering he is one of the few players we have who can dribble with the ball and draw defenders in before setting a team mate through.


I believe in Brendan Rodgers. I can't stand Paul Lambert. In 5 years time I have no doubt who will be world renowned and who will be the 'urgh not him again'. But irregardless of that. Annoying pragmatism simply overran beautiful dogmatism today. And not for the first time either. This was Liverpool Football Club doing it's very best to personify Einstein's insanity definition.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:49:48 pm by Arisbottle of glögg »
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 12:28:57 am »
it seems that we're more likely to damage ourselves than the opposition.

I can't argue with this.

I mean, their first goal came from Suarez attempting a backheel through the legs of a full-back on the halfway line. If that isn't the definition of shooting yourself in the foot, I don't know what is.

Benteke is something else though. I can't say I've watched all too much of Villa this season, but when I do, he sticks out like an erection in pyjamas that fella. Why are we particularly bad at defending against this type of player though? Carlton Cole last week ripped our defence to pieces. Drogba constantly tore us apart. Maybe our centre-half pairing aren't as complete as we all might think.

I didn't really see a way back in the game when Weimann had doubled their lead (beautiful goal, btw). That's a huge problem in itself, because the dread among supporters was clearly evident among those on the pitch too. It's a huge struggle getting one goal, but two? In one half? Twice in a week?! No chance. The second half was an almighty struggle all round. I haven't cringed that much at a sporting event since Flintoff's fight last week. It felt like a side going through the motions to me. Sterling, cut inside, play out to Downing, crosses, cleared. Ad infinitum. Villa won't have an easier half in the league again this season. And nor ought they. They're not very good. But then, what does that make us? And, more importantly, where does that leave us? January can't come quickly enough. I suggest watching the rest of December through your fingers. I know I will be.

On Rodgers, specifically. Today's performance isn't one to make rash judgements at. On his comment that Gerrard has been "excellent" for him this season? I'm inclined to make one. God knows what he'd have made of him in 2007. He'd have combusted.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 12:34:46 am by GarstonitebeforeChristmas »

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 01:49:15 am »
I quite like Lambert and have no axe to grind with Villa at all. My pet hates are Wigan and MK Dons.

I dont think Villa are very good, they have few resources , lots of kids, their striker played very well and they broke effectively. We on the other hand continue to look wide open against the quick counter attack.

It looked very similar to so many games this season and last, especially at Anfield. It's getting depressing.

We have not got to grips with the opposition's fast transition to attack. At the same time we seem unable to master it ourselves. We seem to deliberately avoid it.  Our general tempo is slow, preoccupied with possession rather than effectiveness.

Sterling has been in need of a break for a couple of weeks now. I'm not sure why he isn't alternating with Suso.

Gerrard today was wasted - especially late on - too far forward, largely with his back to goal and waiting for a ball to be delivered from players with a fraction of his ability. All too often long and straight or chipped over defenders into no space - we just ran out of ideas and intent.

Downing......

There's a lack of conviction at Anfield that prevades the whole club without it you can't build anything,  without the fortess we are never going to do anything. Rodgers has to turn it around, has to convince his players they will win and the opposition they will lose. Wr wait for a break rather than making it happen.

We seem to be stuck in limbo - lesser teams know they aren't good enough and so fight like hell to make up for it - better teams have confidence in their ability to deliver - we dont have either.
We have mentality of entitlement. We play like good play and being 'better' players means you should win - that dominating possession means you should win, that having a philosophy means you should win,  its all bollocks - mentally we come across as limited and its a massive task to turn it around.


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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 04:54:08 pm »
The whole thing seemed flat from the off - was it that way in the ground? And again, profligacy early on after good work (Suarez should have slipped Gerrard in, and we had three or four decent opportunities and squandered them to the extent you started to feel like it was coming... and it came. A poor bit of goalkeeping for me on the first, but he shouldn't ever have been able to get his shot away. The 2nd was shambolic for me. Benteke did well, but that was shambolic. And by that stage it felt like they were picking us off at will on the break. The third was a beautiful passage of play for Villa - a great goal - but again, where was the urgency and pressure. That's the first time I've watched them and felt anything like worry. They have a lot to prove from here on, because that result will be a stone in the shoe for a lot of neutrals. That said, a few days earlier the chat was 'a few points off the CL spots, we're in this', as capped off by Rodgers and his 'aim higher' thing the day before.

I think maybe we take it too far in our criticism at times, but it's merited for yesterday. No Liverpool side should be that easy to pick off, least of all so early in a home tie. And it wasn't even the standard 'ball in behind the advancing full backs' thing - it was meat and potatoes stuff, and that was with Lucas on the park. Very poor indeed.

They need to get playing like the manager has it advertised on the box, let alone January. Early in the season, even when results weren't quite there, the football for me was encouraging. That just bewildered you yesterday.

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 05:02:10 pm »
All that said, I don't want to depart the thread without answering the question. A bit of both. We're upper mid-table at the minute, but with quality we're in the mix for the top 6 slots, all of which ought to be up for grabs. It was a killer that. But the team maybe needed it. As Degs says, they'd maybe started believing their own hype.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 07:24:08 pm »
Bump
Yep.

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 07:31:07 pm »
How do we solve the issue of how we easy we are for teams to pick apart on the break? It's just unacceptable how easy we are to score against because of how poor we are off the ball.

Every time the opposition get the ball they look like they'll create a chance.
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Offline Anywhichwayicant

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 07:44:29 pm »
Toothless up top, meek at the back and a circus in the middle.


Battered them early on, but they soon settled, and after that, it was like trying to unlock a door, using a string of spaghetti.



I'm going to give Villa some credit, I thought they played well yesterday, and had done their homework (not that it was an overly complex assignment). They couldn't handle us in the first 20 or so minutes, but even during that time, I thought they handled Suarez well, so they were negating our main threat.

After that initial attacking expedition, the rest was just painful viewing. Villa looked comfortable and punished us with efficient, incisive attacking and finishing.



« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 07:50:16 pm by Anywhichsleighucan »

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 07:47:10 pm »
How do we solve the issue of how we easy we are for teams to pick apart on the break? It's just unacceptable how easy we are to score against because of how poor we are off the ball.

Every time the opposition get the ball they look like they'll create a chance.

Maybe we need to buy another defensive midfielder to protect those already protecting the back 4.

Seriously though that is for BR to work out, and soon.

Offline theredguy03

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 07:52:04 pm »
Absolutely hate Chelsea, how they can call themselves a 'great club' baffles me. The only reason they are successful is because they bought trophies with obscene amounts of money when Abramovich took over in 2003.

Their fans are complete morons apart from their cringeworthy flags and god awful, mind numbing 'Chelsea Chelsea' chant. They ended Anders Frisk's refereeing career with childish death threats and Ovrebo fled the country in fear of being attacked even though he made some strange decisions in that CL semi final.

I refuse to even acknowledge them as a club.

As for the blip reality check, I think this is a blip. Hopefully we come back strong for the last games of 2012 and beginning of 2013.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 07:53:12 pm »
Momentum gone, fuck it.
A serious reality check and not just the standard talk of our feeble attacking muscle, our squad being way off, but also of our manager and just how wet behind the ears he really is. How a team that is seen from a mile away coming to Anfield with every intention of surrendering posession and playing on quick counters so easily gets away with that, scores three and picks up easiest points away from home all season? It's a bit embarassing that, without even going into just where the hell our positive attitude going into the game went and how it never got converted into a serious comeback.

Some problems should have been resolved by now, no matter the players available.

Offline benitezthered

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 07:58:12 pm »
I think it was a blip on the road to where BR is looking to take us – I’m not convinced if we’re on the right road, but that’s another debate.

It was clearly a bad day at the office. We weren’t 3-1 defeat bad, but our same old failings came back to haunt us. Two or three factors have killed us consistently throughout 2012, and they did the same again yesterday. We’re not clinical; we make too many individual errors; our midfield looks shapeless.

I really have no idea how good we are. At times we look fucking great, working the ball into the opponents third, pressing hard, all the rest of it. Other times (often within about a five minute spell) we look shapeless - especially in midfield - we get into the opponents third and then make bad decisions or execute the correct decision badly and our game is ridden with individual errors. Whilst every goal (or nearly every goal) is someone’s fault, somewhere - we seem to gift way too many goals.

I think we’re an upper mid-table team. Would anyone in our team apart from Gerrard, Johnson and Suarez really look out of place at West Ham or Swansea? I don’t think they would – they might be good players in those sides, but they certainly wouldn’t look out of place – like Suarez, Johnson or (still, IMO) Gerrard would. That might be slightly harsh on Reina, Agger, Skrtel and Lucas – but it shows were we’re at.
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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 07:59:14 pm »
Momentum gone, fuck it.
A serious reality check and not just the standard talk of our feeble attacking muscle, our squad being way off, but also of our manager and just how wet behind the ears he really is. How a team that is seen from a mile away coming to Anfield with every intention of surrendering posession and playing on quick counters so easily gets away with that, scores three and picks up easiest points away from home all season? It's a bit embarassing that, without even going into just where the hell our positive attitude going into the game went and how it never got converted into a serious comeback.

Some problems should have been resolved by now, no matter the players available.

What gets me is every single team we come up against has the same gameplan and we haven't worked out how to deal with it. The ones who can execute it we have no answer to.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline John C

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 08:04:38 pm »
After an atrocious spell against Spurs a couple of weeks ago I compared our performance to the period under Souness and wondered whether I was being harsh.  But our structure and inability to control areas of the pitch for two of Villa’s goals yesterday resembled that same period again. Perhaps I’m being really, really harsh but in that era we became an insignificant team, easy to play against and snatch points from. It was déjà vue at Anfield against a Villa team that people are desperate to talk-up to relive their pain from the defeat.
Of course this game could just be the annual nightmare that comes unexpectedly at home every season in recent years or is this simply indicative of what the current squad will produce until there is an injection of brilliance?
You know in August it will happen sometime during the coming season, but not yesterday, I think most of us pencilled this as a ‘gimme’ and were already totting up the points in to New Year.
Brendan, many of us said a month ago don’t talk about 4th never mind 2nd.
To be honest I didn’t even see it coming after 20 minutes, I was only thinking that if we had more firepower this inevitable win could have been bagged by half-time.
I can’t even be positive about the early display from the lads when the result makes it laughable. In fact, even those first 20 minutes were error strewn, passing behind each other, not finding a man, wrong options, little availability in the box.
better passing may have brought us better chances but who’d have taken them.
 
I’m one of those get can’t get over the ‘ifs’ and perhaps if we’d have had the pen awarded for the pull on Agger it may have been different. Would it have lifted the lads who were otherwise quite flat after a bright 20 mins. But even a bright 20 mins has become meaningless this season, we’ve come to expect little end product.
 
Although there was early enthusiasm about Joe Allen I’ve watched him to see how his style will develop and help us, its not been easy for him unable to play with Lucas but his form is now sliding fast. I called him “tenacious” a month or so ago which must have cursed the poor lad, he’s lost it. He could have done more for two their goals – the first was bordering of negligence the way he let Benteke go. He’s lost his passing and tackling mojo.
The fact that he wasn’t hooked worries me, BR mustn’t have favourites and has to be ruthless.
We’ve regularly discussed how we need to take our chances but we also need providers, poor Sterling looks a shade of what he was.
Once again I found myself not getting BR’s subs, but even though a cursory glance at the bench wasn’t inspiring why on earth was Cole his choice? I praised his ability to hit the target last week but he’s somewhere between the scales of weak and a liability
Suso should have been introduced sometime in the 2nd half. He’s had a couple of low key games with Sahin on the pitch with him but he should be introduced to games like that, not because he’s a saviour, he simply has more ability to create than Cole and perhaps even Henderson imo.
 
Usually after dropping points I post that I’m gutted for BR, of course I still am but he needs to have a think about how to approach and manage these games. He’s getting outwitted.

Offline Thelma Viaduct

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 08:09:43 pm »
I hate/despise Manure and Chelsea for totally rational reasons.  :-*

West Ham can be added to the above shit.  :wanker

I think our current predicament is no less than we deserve, finally a bit of reality to temper the delusional hope of the past 20 years. The optimists in the club do my head in, we need to plan and prepare for the worst case scenarios, not assume the rewards will just fall in our lap.

The treatment of Rafa was despicable, ex players and fans sticking the knife in to the Man that brought us respect and probably saved the club from h&g. The shit we find ourselves in is about right.

The optimists can go fuck themselves in cloud la la land with the cuckoos.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 08:39:08 pm by Thelma Viaduct »
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Offline Red_Isle_Chap

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 08:11:50 pm »
Some belting posts in this thread already.

As for the opener, I'll be perfectly honest and admit that i really do despise pretty much every other club. For most of the clubs it's for small, and more often than not pathetic reasons, and some of the reasons do go back for years.

As for yesterday, it's a reality check i'm afraid to say, and more of how utterly detrimental we are to ourselves at times.

I said it in the post match rageaholics anonymous meeting that was the post match. Brenden, for me, has a massive problem that's starting to manifest itself in the way we go about our business. As others have already mentioned we've now become frighteningly predictable and easy to prepare against for teams coming to anfield that aren't in the top 6 (ish) Sit back and pound us on the counter. Our movement and decision making in the final third is, and lets be really honest, piss poor. We never draw people out of position and cause havoc with runners, we just knock it about and lose it.

But lets be honest here in the opening 20 we made Villa look worse than a pub team. But we had our age old problem of not scoring when we had the chances and the pressure. It's every game for us now and it's depressingly easy to predict what's going to happen.

I felt massively sorry for Joe Allen yesteday. After what, 10 mins, he presses the Villa midfield in their own half and wins the ball really well, sliding it to Suarez who has the easiest of balls to play for Gerrard to make it 1-0, but Luis fucks it up and from that moment on everything that Joe tried went wrong and it coincided with a massive collapse around him from all and sundry. Too many pieces didn't fit together today, in fact far too many to start really singling out individuals for their performances as reasons we lost. We lost collectively, as a team.

But what's painfully obvious to me is that the midfield 3 and the front 3 aren't working at all. Not working properly in going forward and not working properly in defending from the front and when a team hits you as cleanly as Villa did yesterday on the break when that's not working, then you're fucked, and we were. Royally.

I personally think Villa were shit, and I didn't even think Benteke was all that good, we just made him look good by being utterly inept.

We can sit here and go, well fuck it were only 5 (might be 7 now with the spurs win today) off 4th, but if you look over our shoulder the abyss isn't exactly all that far away. 2 things need to happen. The players and manager need to start pulling in the same direction and performing on the pitch, and when Jan hits the owners need to back their man. Or the second half of the season could be very, very long for us.
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 08:23:27 pm »
I don´t get it.

Was it the tactics that allowed Villa to score (picking us apart) or was it down to poor individual actions?
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Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 08:28:56 pm »

Our movement and decision making in the final third is, and lets be really honest, piss poor. We never draw people out of position and cause havoc with runners, we just knock it about and lose it.


Been thinking about this since yesterday. Maybe we miss Borini more than we know? I know he didn´t light the place up in terms of scoring, but his movement was very good and often helped create space in the attacking third. The most prefect example of this is from the away match vs Young Boys where his mazy run allowed Shelvey acres of space and sure enough he finished well.

Add to that his overall hard work defensively and he might´ve been important to us.

Now I know this is not the whole truth, but the notion that it might be a significant part of it is groing in my brain.
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Offline benitezthered

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 08:34:05 pm »
Our movement and decision making in the final third is, and lets be really honest, piss poor. We never draw people out of position and cause havoc with runners, we just knock it about and lose it.

That's an aspect of our play that I thought would be far, far better under Rodgers.
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Offline Redwhiteandnotblue

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 08:36:18 pm »
So there we have it. The season of goodwill.

When one of the mods is spouting out hatred in what is supposed to be the sensible discussion thread, setting the worst possible example, is it any wonder that this place is going to the dogs and most threads are becoming unreadable (with a few honourable exceptions).

I think it's time to remind you all that there's only one God and his name is not Fowler.
There's only one true King and his name is not Kenny.
There is only one Christmas present that is important - the gift that God sent to this earth around 2000 years ago.

Wishing you all a peaceful Christmas and a blessed New Year. May you find the love in this season (for God so loved the world that he sent us his only son to die for us that we might live) and let go of the destructive hatred.

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Offline steveeastend

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 08:40:16 pm »
I was disappointed yesterday as to me this kind of performance happened because the majority of the players lacked the right attitude, concentration and passion needed for a Premier League game of football right from the beginning.

No tactics, no wizard, nothing can help, if the players just won´t work together, not fulfilling the requirements of professional football when it comes to tackling, defending and tactical discipline. Winning second balls, making themselves available constantly.. just didn´t happen on the required level.

We certainly don´t have the quality around like City or ManU to rely on strong 15 minutes and then just walk the game and even those teams do have problems if the right attitude isn´t there.

For that, it was a reality check. We definitely don´t have the personell of a top team and we struggle whenever the players think of having an "easy" game. But there are no easy games for us, this should be clear and should be a lesson for the players.

Yes, we lack quality in the final third but this shouldn´t prevent the players to try playing together as a team. Finishing an attack, waiting for the right opportunity instead of going for some individual alibi stuff as we did yesterday. For that, it was reality check again. The players have to continue to improve on their passing game. Without it, we won´t win fuck nothing as the indivual quality of the players is not there with the exception of Suarez but nobody can win games on his own. I am fan of Suarez but he is all about raw talent and instinct on the pitch. And for that, when he doesn´t seem to trust his team mates, he just won´t pass the ball. Yesterday he refused to pass to Gerrard and Shelvey a number of times after trying it once and it just doesn´t work like that. Reality check, Luis, please.

In addition, our midfield wasn´t fit enough for a professional game of 90 minutes. Neither Allen, Lucas nor Gerrard were able to win tackles, duels, they just don´t look fit enough for that. We need rotation but Rodgers seems to stick to the same group of players which is generally fine as I thought we overplayed the youngsters a little bit. But we (again) don´t have a choice here, he needs to be brave now, show some guts and be ruthless enough to make use of the likes of Sahin, Henderson and probably even Pacheco, Yesil and Assaidi on a regular basis in those number of upcoming games.

If Rodgers sticks to a tired Lucas, Allen and Gerrard for the majority of those two-games-a-week schedule he takes an even higher risk than going for some fresh squad players. I believe in Rodgers tactical work, but he will have to show some believe as well in his system to be good enough for working with fit players. Udine and a lot of other games showed this, he just needs mobile and fit players for that.

Bottom line I think we underestimated them and if the players and Rodgers draw the right conclusion and go back to our team play it will be just a bad day at the office to forget quickly.

Oh, and the club I hate most, well actually there is only one I really do hate. Manchester United. 

« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 10:43:38 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline naka

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 08:44:03 pm »
So there we have it. The season of goodwill.



I think it's time to remind you all that there's only one God and his name is not Fowler.
There's only one true King and his name is not Kenny.
There is only one Christmas present that is important - the gift that God sent to this earth around 2000 years ago.
Wishing you all a peaceful Christmas and a blessed New Year. May you find the love in this season (for
God so loved the world that he sent us his only son to die for us that we might live) and let go of the
destructive hatred.


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Offline Garstonite

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 08:44:54 pm »

I think it's time to remind you all that there's only one God and his name is not Fowler.

There's actually thousands.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2012, 08:45:38 pm »
Unfortunately, i think it's a reality check. I would like to say it was a blip, but our form is roughly 1-1-1 with half the season gone. One win, one draw, one defeat. 4 points in 3 games. And I think yesterday is where we are as a team. We play well, we create chances. We don't score enough. We're too open at the back. All in all, we lack a bit of quality everywhere.

What I don't yet know is if this is just us on a road to nowhere, or if we're close to getting really sharp. Because the way I see Rodgers, he's the type of manager who tries to get everything come together. He's not fixing the defence or the attack first, he's trying to fix everything. Trying to set the right platform. And therefore I expect things to come together after some time. And when they do, we'll have "fixed" everything.

I just don't know. But I think the analysis some made on tv over here yesterday show that we have real issues. They showed how open we were for the third goal. Agger and Skrtel were miles apart, Allen was alone in the center, Cole made a basic error and boom. We lost possession and they could have held a parade in the space we left.
Meaning I think we have some issues with the way we've set up to play. Perhaps even with the mix of players we have. It's not just about the understanding between players. So it's the system as well as the understanding from the players how to play the system. One thing is clear though and it's that we don't get the most from the resources we have at our disposal.

Whatever we do to correct things, we need to make sure we get some results soon. Won't take much, but we need to improve and at least get into the top half. If not, we'll soon be under a lot of pressure.

        * * * * * *


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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2012, 08:46:34 pm »
For 28-minutes of the game I thought we had been brilliant. We passed at will and totally dominated Villa. We had the usual missed chances and poor decision making and you thought 'is it going to be one of those days again' but I hoped that we had gone through that stage of dominating games only to lose to a sucker punch. We had won three games in a row including two tough away games to Udinese and West Ham and surely we had turned a corner?

Then came one of the worst examples of in game intelligence. It has been said that Rodger's philosophy of passing the ball out no matter where on the pitch was the cause of another goal conceded, but I think that is unfair. When Suarez had the ball on the half way line he must have known that we had just defended a counter attack and our defense and midfield was not properly set. Trying to back-heel the ball through the full-backs legs was just idiotic and a few seconds later we had conceded the first goal.

We all know that when on his game Suarez is almost unplayable but when he is off form like yesterday he looks too casual. The pass to Gerrard which would have put him one-on-one with the keeper was ridiculously poor for a player of his talents and reminded me of the Swansea game when we broke with a two on one with Suarez and Sterling and Suarez passed the ball far too early and the chance was lost.

After the first goal went in we seemed to stop doing everything that had helped us dominate the game. We seemed to look for the early pass too often rather than patiently passing the ball up to the final third.



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Offline firing squad

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2012, 08:52:46 pm »
So there we have it. The season of goodwill.

When one of the mods is spouting out hatred in what is supposed to be the sensible discussion thread, setting the worst possible example, is it any wonder that this place is going to the dogs and most threads are becoming unreadable (with a few honourable exceptions).

I think it's time to remind you all that there's only one God and his name is not Fowler.
There's only one true King and his name is not Kenny.
There is only one Christmas present that is important - the gift that God sent to this earth around 2000 years ago.

Wishing you all a peaceful Christmas and a blessed New Year. May you find the love in this season (for God so loved the world that he sent us his only son to die for us that we might live) and let go of the destructive hatred.

You'll never walk alone. Perhaps you should all ponder who is walking with you...
don't you have better thngs to do Benedict?
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Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2012, 08:57:29 pm »
Fantastic OP - Pure emotion coming out there!

I dislike Villa too.  The ground is in a dive of an area but in honesty, having worked a lot in the Midlands, Birmingham itself is a depressing place.

Blip or reality check?  Dunno.  I think we had gotten a little ahead of ourselves in the last few weeks.  Apart from the Spurs game when we were unlucky to lose we'd put ourselves in a decent position through hard work.  With the personnel we had we could not afford to be lapse.

After 20-25 minutes on Saturday I thought we'd continue that run.  I could only see one team winning because I could not see Villa scoring.  We were dominating possession and were the only team that looked in it.  It still lacked the final touch, the first time pass and a few wanting runners but I could not see Villa getting anything.

Then, we go very very lazy.  The good stuff that had seen us get in a position of pushing up the table to the top 4 stops.  We start becoming very lethargic with our passing and stop grafting when we don't have the ball.  From the moment Suarez's nutmeg didn't come off you felt things would not go for us.

Difficult to blame any one particular person because nobody played well.  We were all over the place without the ball and well, all over the place with it.  Nothing fell for us and everything seem to break cleanly for Villa.  Luis had an average game and the five players around him fared little better.

Johnson kept cutting inside, Sterling looked lightweight and neither Cole nor Shelvey made any real impact.  I've always agreed with those who suggest that Gerrard is better in a more attacking role and this season as reinforced that more than ever as his legs slow down.  But for those who are blaming the lad single handedly for this defeat need to have a word with themselves and start to learn about football.

We went through the same with Carra.  Now that he is gone from the team and we are still shipping goals we move on to someone else.

Looking for some sort of reaction next Saturday evening.  A reaction that has more focus, concentration and much more options and quicker passing

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2012, 09:00:12 pm »
You'll never walk alone. Perhaps you should all ponder who is walking with you...

Who?  He doesn't smoke cigars and wear gold tracksuits does he? :'(

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2012, 09:01:48 pm »

When one of the mods is spouting out hatred in what is supposed to be the sensible discussion thread, setting the worst possible example, is it any wonder that this place is going to the dogs and most threads are becoming unreadable (with a few honourable exceptions).
He should be ashamed of himself. It's an absolute disgrace and I for one call for the birch to be brought back and the perp receive 50 lashes from Tessa Sanderson.

If not that, then off with his head....... Then again, he's the only mod that goes the game, so we may have to keep him just to keep some semblance of credibility for RAWK.......

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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2012, 09:01:56 pm »
Before this game, I figured this would be three points. Not an easy three points, but if we played our cards right, then three points. Before Villa scored, I said to my Dad that the only way Villa are going to score in this is from a set-piece or from us making a mistake and them scoring likely on the counter. Lo and behold, this is pretty much what happened. Before Benteke put Villa ahead, their defence was perhaps the shoddiest I've seen against us in some time. On two occasions, we were gifted an opportunity from harassing a Villa defender. On each occasion, we were too slow and indecisive in making the necessary pass at the right time to put us ahead. How we went into the break two down, rather than two up, I'll never know.

But it's the old adage with our team. If we had scored first and early on, we might have been able to at worst grind out a result. Instead, we conceded three goals at home to a team that had previously scored only four goals away from home. Our attack looked slow, ponderous and sluggish. Instead of quick one-touch passes designed to encourage off-the-ball movement and tire Villa's defence, we thought, deliberated yet again and then made a poor choice. Guzan probably had the easiest game he'll have all year, as Villa's defence retreated deeper and deeper around their penalty area. Our goal was perhaps our best decision all game: a low hard shot designed to at least elicit a rebound or deflection in a packed box. 

In the summer I felt Brendan was a better choice than Roberto Martinez, as he was more pragmatic than the Wigan manager. A little more pragmatism could go a long way at this stage. I think one of the problems we are having is that we are becoming incredibly predictable. We start hot, but likely go into the break not scoring a goal, or having conceded one. We then have to scramble to get back into the game. Saturday's game repeated the formula. We've conceded thirteen goals this season in the first half, twelve of those after the 16th minute. We've also only scored eight first-half goals: the same amount as Sunderland, Aston Villa and Southampton. Everton in contrast have scored eighteen.

As I've said previously part of that predictably probably comes from the fact we don't rotate as much as we should. You can pretty much pick the match-day squad with no knowledge of bib theory required. If fit, Sterling, Reina, Gerrard, Allen, Lucas, Johnson, Agger and Skrtel will all start regardless of form. Jones, Carragher and Henderson will almost certainly be on the bench. Our opponents know how we'll set-up and seem happy to let us have plenty of the ball, because they know that in a clutch moment we're too indecisive to do anything with it.

I also recall reading a statistic today, that might have been from Paul Tomkins, that Rodgers has made the fewest number of substitutions in the league this year. We had three defenders on the bench yesterday. We've only had a forward on the bench three times in the league (Morgan against West Ham; Borini against Norwich and Stoke). Assaidi didn't even make the cut yesterday, although his guile might have proven more valuable than Joe Cole's telling contribution to the game, in which he was easily muscled off the ball, as Benteke acted as Moses parting a sea of red shirts. I think yesterday was more a case of we were massively inept, rather than Villa were plucky and good. We made stupid decisions and got burned for them and not for the first time this season, we allowed the opposition to romp right through midfield on the counter without a fight, or a good old Hamann arse-driven hip-check to produce a foul to relieve pressure.

I'd also argue that this game was yet more evidence of why the core group who aren't rotated, need to be. The first touch of several players was heavy.  Furthermore, as good as Suarez can be, he also like Luis Garcia before him, can make a mess out of basic, simple decisions, while performing the improbable. The games in which he has played his best (Norwich away for instance), he's been surrounded by players looking to open spaces for him and producing increased fluidity. Yesterday, there was hardly any of that.

Is Rodgers or the players to blame for Villa? Probably a bit of both to be honest. Tactically, we don't seem to be able to resolve our goalscoring plight by spreading the goals around; individually there is far too much complacency and sluggishness, rather than hunger and invention.  Is the sky falling and our season over? No. But perhaps this might be a reality check for players and coaching staff. Hopefully, it will be, because that was a performance and a result that needed arms being taken away from around shoulders and feet being put up backsides.

Offline murdell

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2012, 09:02:32 pm »
Dislike- Spurs, its mainly to do with all that bollox written around there ground like 'to dare is to do' and 'the game is about glory'  glory and spurs is an oxymoron.

Blip or reality - I honestly don't know what this team is capable of. There is no fire power the attempts stats are bewildering.I can't judge a half baked cake and that is what our squad looks like. The vulnerability to counters has not been solved and that is worrying. I'm willing to write this season off given our forward options are a crockedx Cole a 17 year old an 18 year old and jonjo. Suarez remains an enigma absolute genius to quiet wasteful. Im sorry but there is only so much blood you can get from stones.

We need serious investment up top. Our approach play is excellent I think so that gives me hope going forward. I just can't get over how so poor we are in the final third.

Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2012, 09:13:15 pm »
So there we have it. The season of goodwill.

When one of the mods is spouting out hatred in what is supposed to be the sensible discussion thread, setting the worst possible example, is it any wonder that this place is going to the dogs and most threads are becoming unreadable (with a few honourable exceptions).

I think it's time to remind you all that there's only one God and his name is not Fowler.
There's only one true King and his name is not Kenny.

There is only one Christmas present that is important - the gift that God sent to this earth around 2000 years ago.

Wishing you all a peaceful Christmas and a blessed New Year. May you find the love in this season (for God so loved the world that he sent us his only son to die for us that we might live) and let go of the destructive hatred.

You'll never walk alone. Perhaps you should all ponder who is walking with you...

Blasphemer!
STONE HIM!!
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Offline stockdam

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2012, 09:21:30 pm »
I don't hate any other teams but I do laugh at them all when they sing the "Luis Suarez, you know what you are" in their neanderthal tone. It makes them sound so dumb.

As for the game.........

We started off well and were on top. They had one shot and scored, I think Pepe could have done better but maybe he was a bit unsighted.

It then was very obvious that they came with a very organised back 10. They kept their shape and attacked the ball well. On the other hand, when they attacked we often lost our shape and panicked.

The game plan to beat us is to sit back, let us have out 1,000,000 % possession and then muscle us off the ball when it really matters. Use some big strong fast forwards to bully our defence and sit back and let the plan unfold.

We had lots of the ball but we didn't really force their keeper to make many difficult saves. In the end it was an easy 3 points for them.

Being 3-0 down to an average team was embarrassing and really shows that we don't have the fight in us at times. I thought the players had pencilled in an easy 3 points like most of us.

I'll use a quote from Gary Neville again "(dropping points against lesser teams)..........That's nothing to do with the quality of the players, because Liverpool have more than enough to win those games, it's all to do with mentality."

Look at the players that we have. Do we have a better first team than Norwich, West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke and Everton? Well yes we do but all of these teams are above us in the League.

We lack discipline, concentration and mental toughness. We don't really have the desire to win every game and that's why we are currently a mid-table team.

We lack winners and that seems to be a problem right from the top of the club.
#JFT97

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2012, 09:22:19 pm »
Look at the players that we have. Do we have a better first team than Norwich, West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Stoke and Everton? Well yes we do but all of these teams are above us in the League.

We lack discipline, concentration and mental toughness. We don't really have the desire to win every game and that's why we are currently a mid-table team.

We lack winners and that seems to be a problem right from the top of the club.


Well said.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2012, 09:24:28 pm »
How do we solve the issue of how we easy we are for teams to pick apart on the break? It's just unacceptable how easy we are to score against because of how poor we are off the ball.

Every time the opposition get the ball they look like they'll create a chance.

Three at the back. Which means either 4 in midfield or 2 up front. If BR is dogmatic about his three-man midfield, then it means we have to switch to a bona fide 3-5-2. If we look at the average positions of both Skrtel and Agger, compared with Weimann and Bentenke, we can see that in a change from their usual 4-2-3-1, Lambert played two forwards very close together to exploit the huge gap that we create in trying to play from the back into the middle third. Usually it works, because a lot of teams we have played only play with one forward, and so the split centrebacks put that player in a pressing dilemma - shift across to one CB, and he'll pass it to the other one 40 yards away. In the end, the lone forward will just stop pressing, and the CB's can then build more comfortably from their positions. But Lambert clearly realized this, and employed two close forwards, 5 defenders to collapse the space in the box that we get most of our shots from, and went 3v3 in the middle, probably knowing full well that Gerrard doesn't play in a disciplined manner so at times it would be a 3v2 in Villa's favour. If we look here:



... we can see the close positioning of the two Villa forwards. Inserting a 3rd centreback there (say, Coates, for example) closes up that particular gap, maintains the 3 in middle, still allows the fullbacks to push high, and the only sacrifice we make is up front, but as we're not replete with scoring forwards, the dynamics change and might actually create more space for shots. If we look here, with every other average position the same, except no Shelvey, Coates in the middle of the defence, and Raheem pushed up with Suarez, how much more secure does the system look?



We know BR is not averse to three at the back, but if we keep conceding soft goals like we do, playing the 4-3-3 is going to be something he might have to not be so dogmatic about. Making a tactical move like this doesn't sacrifice the pattern of play, the principles of attack or defense and in fact makes us, I think, stronger in midfield. Enrique's and Johnson's (and by extension, Downing's) starting positions are in midfield, rather than at the back, so we effectively play a 5 man midfield with the security of a transitional back four in defence. The method of developing the attack is not an issue for us. Scoring and covering the negative space on transition to defence, though, is a major issue. In making a simple change like this, one tactical solution might positively impact the other.
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Offline kasperoff

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Re: Villa Round Table - Or Clubs You Hate
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2012, 09:25:24 pm »
That was a difficult watch wasn't it?

The question ive found myself asking is this.

Did Rodgers get it wrong, or should we be directing more scrutiny towards the players?

The reason its this question above any other that's circulating through my head is because before that first goal went in we were all over them. Now it may just be because what followed was so bad, but my recollection is that was absolutely battered them in that first half an hour.

They couldnt live with us. Now, there isnt a particular chance i can point to and say, that was it, that was the chance. Not one that I can remember at least. But there was lots of half chances lots of good play that made you believe the goal was coming.

It just never did.

Was that Rodgers getting it right? It certainly didnt look wrong.

What came to follow was a total collapse. Their goal was a total bolt from the blue given our dominance and it was plain as day to see the feeling of "We've just had our chances, and we dont often have two goals in us" spread throughout the squad like gossip at an xmas party. Things changed, and the level of play wasnt the same.

But how much of that is down to Brendan? He can only do so much, he set the team up. He prepared them. And up until a single moment of adverse play, it was working very well.

Ive had my say on Rodgers, im not been convinced by him yet. I dont think 3 defenders on the bench was very smart, for this very reason. I dont think his persistence with playing out of form personnel is ideal. I dont think he's show the level of pragmatism needed to manage at the level we wish to rise to.

But those things aside, he cannot help the sort of individual errors players such as Skrtel (Man City) Downing (Spurs) Gerrard (Arsenal) or the collective fuck ups provided today.

Those individual mistake have undoubtedly contributed to the situation, and position, we find ourselves in. Can you honestly put them at his door?

Maybe you can. Downing isnt a left back and his 'philosophy' is inherently risky when asking players not suited to it to attempt to try. But i cant help but think the margins are incredibly fine. Its a case of a little from column 'a' and a little from column 'b'.

But I do think he's been let down on occasion. Important, telling, occasions. At 0-1 today he was let down. Those on the pitch capitulated and shrunk.

Now it does fall on Rodgers though. Its up to him to crack the heads that need cracking, nobody else can drop the players that dont deserve to be picked for the next game and only he and his staff (Peters) can instil the sort of mentality that is so obviously lacking.

The comeback against West Ham papered over the cracks of another poor performance. Another performance where we as a team peaked inside the first 20-30 mins.

Patterns are starting to emerge. Its one thing spotting them, addressing them is a whole other matter.

I'll allow Rodgers some rope by recognising his players are letting him down at times. Whether he uses that rope to tie up the main offenders, or ends up hoisted by his own petard by refusing to acknowledging or not rectifying the issues bourn out of his philosophy/management is down to him.


Part of me thinks the same. There is an element of baby getting thrown out with the bath water after yesterday. We did play excellently for 30 minutes but it's been drowned out by what came after.

I couldn't contain my anger when Suarez fucked up that simple 3 yard ball to Gerrard early on. It was almost certainly a goal and we could have gone on to win from that. I remember thinking it would come back to haunt us. Rodgers cannot take the blame for errors like that.

That said, there was lots of negatives and plenty to ponder. I'm of the opinion Reina had a poor game. I know that's controversial, but he could have done better with the first 2 IMO. He's not having a good season. He's just lost that ability for getting a flailing heal or knee in the way. These Butland rumours aren't a coincidence.

We're simply poor unfront most of the time. I don't have any answers, but we need far more composure. It's almost like we don't really know what the plan is in the area, from one man to the next. They all seem to be on different scripts. We cross it when there's no one in the area. Or we try an impossible one-two that hasn't got a hope in hell of coming off. Our shooting is also poor. Anything we do get on target normally ends up down the keepers throat.

Sterling is playing far too much for me. I don't think it's helping his form and he's gone off the boil the last few games. Allen is the same to an extent. He's not performing as well as he was and seems to have gone backwards in the last few games. Now Lucas is back, he could use a break now and then. Just to refocus him a bit if not just for a rest.

I'd like to see the manager come good on his statement to play Gerrard as part of the front 3. I don't think he's a good fit in midfield in this system. Between them, Henderson, Allen, Lucas, Shelvey and Sahin should be able to cover the middle 3.

Still, we are pretty much where I predicted we'd be, if I could be arsed I dig out the thread where I said we'd probably hover around 10th. It's still a season of transformation, and we need to remember the manager has only been here a few months. Massive couple of windows coming up and FSG need to back their manager to the hilt. If they can't or won't, then they really need to consider if they are the best people for the job.
I think the same, can't stand him, but if you could have a £1million pound cheque or steve bruces head hollowed out and filled with pound coins which would you have?