Topic: Sugar Tax

[Robinred]

I think we’re in baby and bath water territory. I have no axe to grind for Becky Campbell, and if she lies about her qualifications, that’s completely unacceptable.

Yet consider this: highly qualified doctors were paid huge sums to be apologists for the tobacco industry for decades.

Tepid is wise to be vigilant about quackery. Moreover, there is a very profitable sector of “alternatives” in this on-line purchasing age. Some are pure quackery; but not all. It’s challenging for the consumer to make sense of conflicting messages about many aspects of health. Nutrition is a minefield.

We should always respect the role of peer-reviewed research. But we should equally be aware that scientific communities can be “closed shops” to ideas that challenge powerful and pervasive orthodoxies. (It’s over 50 years since Thomas Kuhn wrote “The structure of Scientific revolutions” exploring the barriers facing those seeking paradigm shift).

[Red-Soldier]

Some of this is fine, but some is the most unutterable crap imaginable.

This is Gillian McKeith levels of quackery in parts...

Gluten free?  WTF?

Pesticide ridden soy?  Organic is a myth. There are precisely zero benefits to eating it...   

That's absolute crap.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims??

I've been eating a Gluten Free diet for 13 years.  I used to feel ill constantly, unable to keep any food down.  It would just come straight back out the other end, also suffered with painful bloating etc.  I know I didn't have a bug or disease, but something was wrong.  After reading a book and completing a course on sports nutrition, I decided to totally change my diet.  I was totally fed up of feeling the way I did and was happy to try anything.  Within just a few days I started to feel a hundred times better, I could actually enjoy eating again without feeling terrible.

Have a read about Coeliac Disease:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coeliac-disease/

In regards to organic produce,  if you like your animal welfare and a cleaner, healthier environment, then organic food has significant benefits.  I also prefer to eat food that may only contain a limited number of agri-chemicals, as opposed to hundreds.

Here's a conclusion taken from this paper below:
https://www.stopogm.net/sites/stopogm.net/files/EEECOCFS.pdf

Various organic agricultural technologies have been used for
about 6000 years to make agriculture sustainable while con-
serving soil, water, energy, and biological resources. The fol-
lowing  are  some  of  the  benefits  of  organic  technologies
identified in this investigation:
•
Soil organic matter (soil carbon) and nitrogen were
higher in the organic farming systems, providing many
benefits to the overall sustainability of organic agricul-
ture.
•
Although higher soil organic matter and nitrogen levels
were identified for the organic systems, similar rates of
nitrate leaching were found to those in conventional
corn and soybean production.
•
The high levels of soil organic matter helped conserve
soil and water resources and proved beneficial during
drought years.
•
Fossil energy inputs for organic crop production were
about 30% lower than for conventionally produced
corn.
•
Depending on the crop, soil, and weather conditions,
organically managed crop yields on a per-ha basis can
equal those from conventional agriculture, although it
is likely that organic cash crops cannot be grown as
frequently over time because of the dependence on cul-
tural practices to supply nutrients and control pests.
•
Although labor inputs average about 15% higher in
organic farming systems (ranging from 7% to 75%
higher), they are more evenly distributed over the
580  BioScience
•
July 2005 / Vol. 55 No. 7
Articles
year in organic farming systems than in conventional
production systems.
•
Because organic foods frequently bring higher prices in
the marketplace, the net economic return per ha is
often equal to or higher than that of conventionally
produced crops.
•
Crop rotations and cover cropping typical of organic
agriculture reduce soil erosion, pest problems, and pes-
ticide use.
•
The recycling of livestock wastes reduces pollution
while benefiting organic agriculture.
•
Abundant biomass both above and below the ground
(soil organic matter) also increases biodiversity, which
helps in the biological control of pests and increases
crop pollination by insects.
•
Traditional organic farming technologies may be adopt-
ed in conventional agriculture to make it more sustain-
able and ecologically sound.

[TepidT2O]

Try this study from Stanford....

http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/1355685/organic-foods-safer-healthier-than-conventional-alternatives-systematic-review

None of the items you listed are in anyway health benefits of organic food.  In fact, many of these are really quite vague claims.

And what exact benefits of animal care are there for organic farming?  There may be some, but these are entirely incidental to it being organic.  Correlation does not indicate causation (as we all know).

I’m glad you changed your diet and felt better, genuinely. Did you just change the gluten, or did you change other things to?  How do you know what made you feel better?  Did you do more sport?

But show me one proper bit of research that shows gluten to be detrimental to the health of the population as whole and you might have an argument.  Coeliac disease is of course a disease.  I’m sorry if you suffer from it.

But rather like me being allergic to cats, it doesn’t mean anything to the general population..

[Elmo!]

And what exact benefits of animal care are there for organic farming?  There may be some, but these are entirely incidental to it being organic.  Correlation does not indicate causation (as we all know).

I agree with the rest of your post but better animal care is not incidental to it being organic, it is a fundamental part of being certified as organic.

Just as one example, all organic meat and dairy products must be free range to be certified as organic by the Soil Association (by far and away the biggest certifying association in organic food).

There rules also ban the routine use of antibiotics, which is crucial to prevent antibiotic resistance.

[classycarra]

Can start with you...six kids and you've never changed a nappy?

Haha is that true?! If so, that is golden!

[kavah]

But show me one proper bit of research that shows gluten to be detrimental to the health of the population as whole and you might have an argument.  ...

Yes gluten seems to be very unpopular these days. And it's just the scientific name for wheat-flour right? I pretty much eat bread every day, that would be hard to give up or even cut down on. I'd be amazed if bread were the problem. Fizzy drinks and too many cakes and candy bars sure, I can see why those should be taxed in the same way as booze and ciggies.

My prematch snack will be a warm baguette with butter and I can't help but feel it's much better than in my younger days when it would be a couple of Jack and Cokes and 10 Regal

 

[J_Kopite]

Yes gluten seems to be very unpopular these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktgNuQ61NHE

[TepidT2O]

I agree with the rest of your post but better animal care is not incidental to it being organic, it is a fundamental part of being certified as organic.

Just as one example, all organic meat and dairy products must be free range to be certified as organic by the Soil Association (by far and away the biggest certifying association in organic food).

There rules also ban the routine use of antibiotics, which is crucial to prevent antibiotic resistance.

Perhaps I should rephrase.  The quality of animal husbandry shouldn’t be any different between organic and nonorganic farming.  There’s no real reason why they should be different

[Elmo!]

Perhaps I should rephrase.  The quality of animal husbandry shouldn’t be any different between organic and nonorganic farming.  There’s no real reason why they should be different

So your issue is with non-organic food then, and not organic food? Or do you think the standards set for animal husbandry by the likes of the Soil Association are too high?

[TepidT2O]

So your issue is with non-organic food then, and not organic food? Or do you think the standards set for animal husbandry by the likes of the Soil Association are too high?

There is no reason why the standards of animal husbandry should be any higher for organic foods, and I know of many cases where it is exactly the same.

However, in general, the standards of animal husbandry are lower if food is not organic.

However, the quality of husbandry isn’t down to the food being organic, it’s an offshoot from that.  We should be demanding the same levels of animal husbandry for all livestock.

[Nobby Reserve]

We should be demanding the same levels of animal husbandry for all livestock.

But won't that increase prices?

[TepidT2O]

But won't that increase prices?

Not necessarily no.  Often it comes down to caring for livestock a little more.  That doesn’t have to mean more money.

With the farmers I know, there is a range in standards of husbandry. They don’t get different amounts of money for their product, and I would suggest that those who took most care were most successful (although that is anecdotal evidence of course).

[Jiminy Cricket]

Re: gluten

Leaving aside true (celiac) disease, some people do not react well to gluten. But, it appears, far fewer than the number of people who claim to be 'gluten sensitive'.  A few years ago, at the insistence of my wife, I switched away from wheat-based cereal for my breakfast to oat-based cereals. Since that time, I experienced problems with my digestion. (I failed to make a connection). Then, about six months ago I happened upon some mention of gluten-like compounds found in other cereals - I read around a bit. I switched back to wheat-based cereals and I have experienced a complete reversal in symptoms. I should also add, it is not that I cannot eat oats at all - just not the larger quantities I had been previously ingesting for breakfast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oat_sensitivity

All cereals have their own 'gluten' proteins. And different people can experience difficulty digesting a particular glutenin. And, personal anecdote suggests that just because an individual does not digest a particular glutenin well, it does not necessarily follow that he or she cannot eat any of that particular protein.

In short, if I had not followed my wife's advice about switching away from glutin (wheat), I would never have experienced any 'sensitivity' problems. I'm convinced that most people who avoid wheat because they are 'sensitivite' are no such thing. It is mostly - but not totally - a food fad.

@Tepid If better animal husbandry is required by the Soil Association for certification, those benefits are not 'incidental'. True, a small amount of non-organtic meat production would satisfy SA husbandry standards,  but this does not equate to 'incidental' animal husbandry benefits when it is required component of SA certification. I suspect that we actually agree with each other, but some of your phrasing is causing some confusion.

[TepidT2O]

Yes I think you’re right