Topic: PHILIPPE COUTINHO: THE MAN WHO ESCAPED PURGATORY

[Mutton Geoff]

I don't think there's anyone in here saying he's not a quality player, just that he needs to improve his decision making on the pitch.

really ? Check Kals for one ! he is the tip of the shit pile

[tubby]

really ? Check Kals for one ! he is the tip of the shit pile

Didn't he just say Coutinho is overrated?  That's hardly saying he's not a good player.

[Mutton Geoff]

 

Didn't he just say Coutinho is overrated?  That's hardly saying he's not a good player.

  on that note 

[RideTheWalrus]

if this thread was set up to flush out all the idiots  who don't recognise class remains and form is temporary  it worked . 

There are some real beauts in here !

This lad can turn games , he is probably  the one guy we have who is a real game changer and at 23 will only improve, and we got him for an absolute steal of a fee.

( Sturridge might be the other game changer but too often not on the pitch for a decent sample)

Some of you couldn't recognise a quality player if he kicked you up the arse . 

No one with common sense is doubting this. Since he came here though, he's been really inconsistent, and that's something I don't think will ever leave him.

[BER]

Little genius surrounded by mostly mediocrity, in a poor rut of form, but has never(rarely) stopped trying. It's telling that there is no one left in the team for him to look up to or inspire him a bit.

[RyanBabel19]

Easy to forget he's only 23, yes he's inconsistent but to be honest a huge amount of players still are at that age.

I have a huge amount of faith that he will regain his good form, it's only such a massive frustration at the moment because the teams attack as a whole is struggling at the moment

[jepovic]

Yeah let's sell our only consistent creative force and get some more PL midtable dross for 25M a piece...
Is he even playing the same sport as Lallana and Milner? Not sure.

[rushyman]

Could do with a few misses off him anyway.

If he keeops whacking balls in the net from 40 yards and setting folk up he'll be gone in no time

[ThePeetmix]

Said this in August and got absolutely slaughtered.

You did say he was on the same level as Oxlade-Chamberlain. So I'd say it's fairly deserved. 

[Bunter]

Little genius surrounded by mostly mediocrity, in a poor rut of form, but has never(rarely) stopped trying. It's telling that there is no one left in the team for him to look up to or inspire him a bit.

Has looked more and more disillusioned recently, which is worrying. He's had smoke blown up his arse by everyone after a great 6 months, Neymar telling him he could play for Barca and its gone to his head a bit. Not surprised he's looking around and thinking "fucking hell, some of these can't even trap a ball properly". He seems to have caught the disease himself at times, when you see him miscontrolling simple balls and getting muscled off it, when last year no fucker was getting near him.

[mulfella]

I saw the title of this thread and couldn't help thinking "we've just sold him then"

[steveeastend]

People have to be patient with Coutinho, he has to work probably 300% more for the team than he ever did before, his body has to adopt to this, also mentally, to make the switch in attacking mode from one moment to the other, especially with nobody doing runs behind..

It's a very difficult period for Coutinho but when he gets through this he will be stronger than ever. Just give him some months and he will shut down all those doubters around at the moment..


shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

[Keith Lard]

Said this in August and got absolutely slaughtered.

Depay ... Chamberlain ... of puhleeeease.

I'd say Erikson, Sterling and Coutinho are all in the same bracket now, but wouldn't have said this at the start of the season. He was comfortably above them at the start of the season.

[BabuYagu]

I do wonder to what extent Coutinho´s game current form is as a result of his injury, Benteke being in the side, or a combination of them both. His form was fantastic under Klopp right up to that Man City game when he was injured for 3 weeks with a hamstring strain. Since then he´s played almost none-stop for 3 weeks and just hasn´t looked the same player at all.

I decided to look back over Klopps reign at the games where (for the most past) Coutinho played the majority of the game with or without Benteke in the side and there does seem to be a large correlation between the number of shots (it doubles with Benteke in the side) and dribbles (it halves with Benteke in the side) per 90 minutes both pre and post hamstring injury. I also noticed looking at the chalkboards for the games that he has more touches in the box, passes into the box and better passing accuracy in general when Benteke is out of the side.

[Ashburton]

It is because strikers ahead of him can split to the wing, which lets the midfielders push forward, take a touch, make the defence commit and cause problems.  If you are a striker jogging around in the middle of the D, then you cannot drive in to that space from midfield as it is already occupied.  He looks up, sees four players ahead of him and spanks it in to the top corner (ideally), more likely a block.

I think you'd see a lot more from him even with Ings in the side, but this effects cannot be purely Benteke, perhaps fatigue is a factor as there have been a lot of games, and it isn't the end of that run yet.

[Wesley Pipes]

Sigh.

Care to explain your insulting reply?

Or is it just the fact that we should accept his poor form since November and not question how bad he's playing?

Or you're simply just a.....

[Cid]

No one with common sense is doubting this. Since he came here though, he's been really inconsistent, and that's something I don't think will ever leave him.

He's a one in 3-4 player when it comes to bossing a game..I can live with that.  If we had a few more players of that level we'd be doing just fine.  I'd say on our books Sturridge is a player who will boss one or every 2-3 games or so.

Then we have the lower level players such as Benteke. Lallana etc who will play out of their skins maybe every 5-6 games.

What we lack is a player like Gerrard, Suarez or further afield hazard, Silva, Kane, mahrez, payet, giroud perhaps...players who perform to their best more games than not, the ones where a quiet match is a blip.

Coutinho is exactly the sort of player you want filling up your squad, supporting the stars when they have that rare off day.  He's not a player you want to pin your season's hopes on, the fact Rodgers did that (after doing the same to Sterling the season prior) is further proof of his ineptitude and outright inability to bring in quality players.

[Fiasco]

He's suffering because he's surrounded by players who are not on his wavelength and who don't have the game intelligence he does. Coutinho is getting some flak here by people saying that his decision making is wrong but I think it's merely a matter of him not trusting his team mates. He has the ball, he likes to create, and if nothing is happening in front of him I don't think he see's the value of recycling the ball. Who is going to do anything with it? Our movement is too static and he is simply not suited to playing with the players he is currently playing with.

Henderson has missed a lot of games this year and I think it's important to note that he links up well with him. Henderson is a great runner from deep and is very much an instinctive player. Henderson can do many things in the final third if he doesn't have time to think. Sturridge has been out injured for so long and he's another who has a great understanding with Phil. Also take Sterling out of the team this season like we have and then a lot of pace has been lost in the final third.

Get in a couple of players with better movement and speed, get Henderson and Sturridge back playing (unlikely in Daniel's case) and you'll see him performing to the level he can on a much more consistent basis.

[Diomedieocre]

He's suffering because he's surrounded by players who are not on his wavelength and who don't have the game intelligence he does. Coutinho is getting some flak here by people saying that his decision making is wrong butI think it's merely a matter of him not trusting his team mates. He has the ball, he likes to create, and if nothing is happening in front of him I don't think he see's the value of recycling the ball. Who is going to do anything with it?Our movement is too static and he is simply not suited to playing with the players he is currently playing with.

Henderson has missed a lot of games this year and I think it's important to note that he links up well with him. Henderson is a great runner from deep and is very much an instinctive player. Henderson can do many things in the final third if he doesn't have time to think. Sturridge has been out injured for so long and he's another who has a great understanding with Phil. Also take Sterling out of the team this season like we have and then a lot of pace has been lost in the final third.

Get in a couple of players with better movement and speed, get Henderson and Sturridge back playing (unlikely in Daniel's case) and you'll see him performing to the level he can on a much more consistent basis.

If thats the case he wants dropping..totally unprofessional.

[Fiasco]

If thats the case he wants dropping..totally unprofessional.

Multiple players would be dropped from multiple teams if you always took that view.

[spider-neil]

I think it was Melissa Reddy (Anfield Wrap) that said you want Coutinho to be the second best player on the pitch (paraphrasing).
Basically, not the main man but someone who supplies the main man. And I think I agree with her.

[kaz1983]

This is just making excuses for him.  You put Ozil in the exact same position in our team and I'd bet dollars to donuts that he wouldn't be shooting anywhere near as much as Coutinho.  He'd just recycle possession, wouldn't try and create something out of nothing.  What's to say that someone like Lallana wouldn't do better in a team which has lots of runners and movement ahead of him?  His output was much better at Southampton.  Does he get the same excuses as Coutinho?

Plus Lallana played off a striker similar to Benteke in Lambert, I'm not sure how much pace Lallana had around him (fellow AM's as Southampton played 4-2-3-1) ... from memory quite a few of his goals were him making runs off Lambert and getting on the end of balls, Lallana off Benteke would be interesting to see... you would still need to get the balance right but i's funny Lallana isn't given as many excuses as Coutinho. I see Lallana thrown under the bus on a regular basis, it is what it is but that doesn't mean it's right.

[Redman78]

We all know what he's capable of and when he produces, he's a top player, but he's in poor form and that cannot all be blamed on other players, people are falling over themselves to make excuses for him. He was also guilty of not giving the required effort against West ham

[Jookie]

I think it was Melissa Reddy (Anfield Wrap) that said you want Coutinho to be the second best player on the pitch (paraphrasing).
Basically, not the main man but someone who supplies the main man. And I think I agree with her.

I agree with this as well.

Excluding Sturridge, he's the best attacking player (and probably player) at the club. Being the best creative source I think he's been pushed into a number 10 position, or at least a very attacking position, a lot of the time. Due to the lack of other alternatives I can personally understand why we've done this but for me his best position would be in a midfield 3. The lack of a truly great attacking player has meant he's been asked to be the fulcrum of virtually all our attacking play. It is a position where he can excel but it's all a position where his inconsistency can be highlighted.

In an ideal world he'd be better served playing second fiddle to more experienced attacking player. Take some of that pressure off him and let him play his natural game. That's what happened in 2013-14. He played great in the main and contributed significantly. But there was no way he was the main man.

Obviously having pace and movement in front of him would help too. Give him options and variety in our forward runs and you get more out of him. I don't necessarily just mean replace Benteke with a pacy striker. I think Benteke could work but you need midfielders or the 3 in behind the striker to have the desire to go beyond the striker and get into goal scoring positions. This would create space for Benteke but also Coutinho to work in.

Having full backs who had better attacking threat would help also. Clyne and Moreno have their strengths but crossing isn't one of them. Their final ball is pretty poor. At the moment teams allow our full backs to have the ball. If the full backs were productive that would help both Benteke (for obvious reasons) but also the likes of Coutinho. Teams wouldn't be able to play as narrow against us and consequently that would give the likes of Coutinho more space to play in and also the strikers and attacking midfielders more space to exploit with forward runs.

Fixing these issue is going to take time. The unbalanced squad (and current injuries) makes it difficult to see how we change things significantly in the short term. Unless we pull a rabbit out the hat in January then I think we are looking at the summer to fix some of these problems. Hopefully we can hold onto Coutinho during this period and I'm sure he'll thrive come 2016-17 when he's not the main (or only) man we look towards to provide attacking inspiration.

[johnny74]

A bargain at £8M but in a title-winning squad I'm not sure he would be a regular, he'd play every other game. He goes missing too often.

We need BIGGER players.

I think he is overrated by fans. Still a very good player though. But when every member of your squad is good enough he would become less essential.

[blacksun]

Plus Lallana played off a striker similar to Benteke in Lambert, I'm not sure how much pace Lallana had around him (fellow AM's as Southampton played 4-2-3-1) ... from memory quite a few of his goals were him making runs off Lambert and getting on the end of balls, Lallana off Benteke would be interesting to see... you would still need to get the balance right but i's funny Lallana isn't given as many excuses as Coutinho. I see Lallana thrown under the bus on a regular basis, it is what it is but that doesn't mean it's right.

Doesn't your first couple of sentences explain why Lallana gets so much grief, he's used to playing with a Benteke type striker and looks even more blunt than Coutinho where as anyone who has paid any attention has seen Coutinho's skill set has always shone with players like Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling ahead of him and is why so many people were astounded that Rodgers thought Benteke was the right type of striker to bring in to get the best out of Coutinho and Firmino who also looks like he works better with that type of striker ahead of him.

As for those claiming Coutinho should completely change his game to fit Benteke, the old adage the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, surely as most of our players seem to suit the short passing quick interchange game we played in 13/14 then surely Benteke should change to suit them not the other way round, hell Barca didn't change the way Xavi, Iniesta or Messi played to suit Ibra did they? Surely if Ibra can't expect it why should Benteke?

[clinical]

A bargain at £8M but in a title-winning squad I'm not sure he would be a regular, he'd play every other game. He goes missing too often.

We need BIGGER players.

I think he is overrated by fans. Still a very good player though. But when every member of your squad is good enough he would become less essential.

Bollocks. In a barca team his game would reach a new level. Like with any in his position he relies on people around him making runs. We have been awful at it.

[Keita Success]

Depay ... Chamberlain ... of puhleeeease.

I'd say Erikson, Sterling and Coutinho are all in the same bracket now, but wouldn't have said this at the start of the season. He was comfortably above them at the start of the season.

I got Depay wrong, and Chamberlain has barely played.

but Coutinho isn't at the level of Erikson and Sterling right now. Or, if he is, he's being dragged down by less able team-mates.

[CallumLFC]

really ? Check Kals for one ! he is the tip of the shit pile

Saying someone is overrated doesn't mean i don't rate him. He's a good player but doesn't belong in the top tier of players in this league, nevermind the world. Hence i think he's overrated because there are many who think he is.

[Coolie High]

I got Depay wrong, and Chamberlain has barely played.

but Coutinho isn't at the level of Erikson and Sterling right now. Or, if he is, he's being dragged down by less able team-mates.

Sterling has been average this season as well, and i haven't followed Eriksen.

And what the hell has Chambo done to be put in that bracket?(Not much).

[Keita Success]

Sterling has been average this season as well, and i haven't followed Eriksen.

And what the hell has Chambo done to be put in that bracket?(Not much).

10 goals so far. That's not average.

[Mighty_Red]

Quite simply, this boy is a joy to watch and we should be glad we have him. He is obviously suffering due to the lack of movement in our strikers and overall poor form/quality of our attack.

He has been struggling for form himself but should we be expecting a 23 year old to bear all the responsibility of dragging the team to wins? He is trying to, but taking the wrong decisions in shooting too often.

We have seen the games this season where he has come alive but it has also relied on Firmino & Lallana to come to the party. They have had their struggles as well so it is no surprise that the good games have been few and far between.

The Stoke game showed that he still has it, and the biggest compliment to him is that we will miss him while he is out injured.

Coutinho is someone who can supply a Sturridge, but supplying Benteke needs a different skillset and it doesn't come quite as naturally as the the lovely weighted through ball

[didi shamone]

10 goals so far. That's not average.

5 in the league for both Sterling and Coutinho. Coutinho has been injured and plays with one of the poorest attacks in the league.  Sterling is the last stick people should us to beat Phil with.

[JackWard33]

5 in the league for both Sterling and Coutinho. Coutinho has been injured and plays with one of the poorest attacks in the league.  Sterling is the last stick people should us to beat Phil with.

They're totally different players and they should be playing in totally different positions
Sterling is probably having a better season but it's hard to see the point of comparing them at all

[ThePeetmix]

They're totally different players and they should be playing in totally different positions
Sterling is probably having a better season but it's hard to see the point of comparing them at all

Sterling has probably been the most inconsistent player this season of anyone.  Had some very good games but had a good number of god awful/anonymous games. It's why he's one of the most subbed players in the league.

[JackWard33]

Sterling has probably been the most inconsistent player this season of anyone.  Had some very good games but had a good number of god awful/anonymous games. It's why he's one of the most subbed players in the league.

Fine - like I said they're totally different players so I don't see the point in comparing them... is it some desperate attempt to find a high profile player having a worse season than Coutinho?

[Diomedieocre]

Multiple players would be dropped from multiple teams if you always took that view.

If.you are capable of ronaldo or messi or suarez numbers then yes...shoot away...but phillip will be lucky to get consistantly more than ten league goals a season at his conversion rate...he is in fact part of the problem if thats his attitude.

[trimore]

Coutinho, like the rest of us, is just going to have to be patient. He's a great player but he's not Gerrard and can't drag us single handedly anywhere. He has to wait for Ibe, Can, Origi, Markovic, Ings, Kent, Wilson and Ojo to develop, for Firmino to adapt and wait for Klopp to work his transfer magic and undo our previous failures.

It's too much for him to overcome, but he's still young and can still win a lot with us. Patience is key here, he has to keep his head down and keep working the success he craves for himself and this club will naturally spring up in time.

[Diomedieocre]

I love watching the little fella in full flight...i think part of a midfield three with runners about him theres few better...

[SerbianScouser]

Badly miss watching this guy play. Can`t wait to see him back , hopefully it`s very soon now. Could definitely use some of his magic and superior technique in the final third.