Author Topic: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....  (Read 43221 times)

Offline L7S

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #720 on: December 31, 2011, 06:46:40 am »
Gerrard is just head and shoulder above everyone on the pitch there. Pity with the money we spent, we are still relying so heavily on him. Hopefully he will be fit for a long time to come.

Offline socrates the sophist

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #721 on: December 31, 2011, 06:54:46 am »
Just finished watching the game. Firstly I think Newcastle have managed to make a very organized and talented team and it showed yesterday. The way they organize themselves off the ball and press with different intensity is impressive. There is no wonder why they are at a very comfortable position this season, and with Demba Ba the role of the poacher might well be back to football.


As for us, I think its wonderful that the team managed to come from behind to score. However having said that, we have been poor throughout the match even when Stevie was on. There isn't enough intensity in our attack, and we are clearly passing and  not moving. The only players who did that were Gerard and may be Glen and Agger. I'm just saying this because I am sensing a bit of over-reaction by the forum and I want us to keep our feet to the ground; we are still not good enough to get 4th I'm afraid.


A note on Carroll; I have been shouting about this in the striker-partnership thread...Carroll is not a Heskey, he's a Llorente. The problem was not a lack of service as many suggested. The problem is that, without Gerard, we are using him wrong. We use him as a pivot for Suarez to run on to the ball. However that is not the way to play him as Gerard showed us all last night. So I'm hoping Kenny will change the way he uses Carroll in the team.

A final note on chances: This perspective that we have been playing better and making chances and it is just bad luck is not true imo. You can see in the match against Newcastle, we created three chances; two for carroll (one he miss controlled and the other hit the bar) and one for Gerard which he scored. We can't talk about Bellamy's second goal and say that this was a chance created. We can't even describe it, despite the fact that it was on target and that it went in), as a dangerous ball.
The clearest example is in the Black burn game: we had 27 shots in that match according to Football 365 editorial after the game. However while you were watching, how many times did you feel we truly threatned the goal? it's probably the goal, Carroll's chance and Agger's chance (both were in the final 30 seconds). A return of a goal for these chances is a very good one (the problem is we are not creating enough of them), or else Barcelona will be the unluckiest team in the world...they miss three one on one chances every match.

unlucky is in 2008 against Fulham when we hit the bar four times and the Fulham keeper made two saves from inside the six yard box and we end up winning 1-0 only, that is unlucky. Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam and Suarez combining to mishit 12 shots, that is just poor. and it needs to change.

EDIT-- MoM: Skrtel
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 06:58:20 am by socrates the sophist »

Offline OzAndy_Red

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #722 on: December 31, 2011, 07:36:47 am »
Just wanted to add my two cents. Away with the wife for New Years, watched the game from bed starting at 6:30am.

From the onset, thought we played the ball very quick. Spearing like others have mentioned, brought balance to the midfiled plus created that much needed urgency when defending in the middle of the park. Defence looked solid once again with Newcastle not creating that much.

Bellamy was immense. Feel he should be starting regularly, particularly when Luis isn't playing. Great two goals from the lad. And how about Stevie G. To me, in these little cameos, he is looking the player from a few years back. Absolutely brilliant creativity, linkup play and of course his finish was sumptuous.

Carrol looked very promising when Stevie came on. Very positive signs as no doubt he'll be getting regular game time with Luis being out. Skrtel was massive, what a clearance! Enrique is a machine also.

Well in red men, thank you for starting my New Years in style.

Happy New Year all!

Offline Nazi Dickhead

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #723 on: December 31, 2011, 07:42:00 am »

A note on Carroll; I have been shouting about this in the striker-partnership thread...Carroll is not a Heskey, he's a Llorente. The problem was not a lack of service as many suggested. The problem is that, without Gerard, we are using him wrong. We use him as a pivot for Suarez to run on to the ball. However that is not the way to play him as Gerard showed us all last night. So I'm hoping Kenny will change the way he uses Carroll in the team.


Think Gerrard proved last night that it has been a lack of good quality service Carroll has been missing, as well as how we are playing him.
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Offline GIPPO77

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #724 on: December 31, 2011, 07:42:22 am »
Great win, fully deserved. When we hit the bar I thought , here we go again! Gerrard got MOM,though I thought both Agger and Skrtel had good games along with Enrique and Bellamy.
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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #725 on: December 31, 2011, 07:44:10 am »
The only criticism I have is that I notice some of the posters on here who seem to constantly whinge and moan in the pre- and post-match threads haven’t been in here to comment after a win.

Oh they have mate, go back to the first 6 pages you'll see they were having a good miserable dig straight after the win.
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Offline Armand9

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #726 on: December 31, 2011, 07:52:45 am »
A note on Carroll; I have been shouting about this in the striker-partnership thread...Carroll is not a Heskey, he's a Llorente. The problem was not a lack of service as many suggested. The problem is that, without Gerard, we are using him wrong. We use him as a pivot for Suarez to run on to the ball. However that is not the way to play him as Gerard showed us all last night. So I'm hoping Kenny will change the way he uses Carroll in the team.

Could you explain what you mean by 'that is not the way to play him as Gerard showed us all last night' and how that fits in with your comment that 'The problem was not a lack of service as many suggested' - because for me Gerrard did show exactly how to 'play him' (get the best out of him) and that was clearly good service, whether to head or foot - something he had not enjoyed before Stevie came on (and pretty much for most of the minutes he's played for us this season imo).
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Offline Giono

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #727 on: December 31, 2011, 07:54:02 am »
Possibly not.  I think Stevie did the easy things quicker than Charlie and did the crossing much better than anyone on the field.

Think Adam will be better once we get our confidence up to be fair but at the moment, he seems a little ponderous.  Where Gerrard needs one or two touch, Charlie holds onto the ball and takes 4 or 5.  By which time he's either closed down or the opposition are in position.

We'll grow better as a squad of players - no doubt

That's what I was thinking. I appreciate Adam's passing, but it takes him a while and defences get set-up.

The other player that benefited from Stevie's movement and passing was Dirk Kuyt when he came on. I haven't seen Kuyt look that involved all season and that also made Enrique's runs down the left more effective.



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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #728 on: December 31, 2011, 07:55:15 am »
Great to see bellamy grab a couple, what a goalline clearance by Skrtel, unlucky Carroll as could have and should have scored two and welcome back indeed SG, best present santa could bring us
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Offline ChrisV

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #729 on: December 31, 2011, 08:02:13 am »
Think Gerrard proved last night that it has been a lack of good quality service Carroll has been missing, as well as how we are playing him.

Don't understand this at all. Gerrard gift-wraps a couple of absolute peaches of balls for Carroll and Carroll still doesn't score (unluckily for one of them, it must be said) and this proves that Carroll's problem is that we haven't been accommodating enough for him? Surely what it proves is that Gerrard is brilliant and can instantly make anyone look good by lifting the ball in their direction. What centre-forward wouldn't have looked like a goal threat with those crosses aimed at them?

Carroll definitely looked better today, but I still don't see that his fundamental problems - which include terrible off-the-ball movement and what I can only describe as laziness - were any closer to being resolved. Even the commentators were remarking on it last night. I might get proved wrong. For instance I'm definitely looking like being proved wrong about....

Gerrard. I had big fears that he was done for and we would never see his best again. Last couple games he has been brilliant and the whole team looks better when he is on. I just hope we can see him and Suarez both on the pitch soon.

Also worth mentioning, our back four look amazing. Johnson has been playing well and the Agger/Skrtel partnership is really blossoming, with both of them fantastic in their own way today. Agger with some important incisive runs forward and Skrtel with the jaw-dropping clearance off the line.

Offline Giono

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #730 on: December 31, 2011, 08:09:46 am »

If a player NEEDS top quality around him in order to look good it isn´t really a sign which makes me wanna believe in this player.

The difference in quality when Gerrard is coming on says a lot about the quality of our transfer summer.

Downing, Carroll and to some extend Henderson where bought to hit the ground NOW. To make the squad be competitve in the PL when the likes of Suarez, Gerrard or Lucas aren´t fit or ready to play. Right now this wasn´t the case, far from it.

I have no doubt that there is an awesome first eleven around with the likes of Gerrard lifting the place. But Gerrard isn´t the future. So who will lift Carroll when he isn´t around? Downing?

And if Downing, Henderson and Carroll need someone like Gerrard to make it happen, why did we buy them in the first place as it´s clear that Gerrard won´t be around in every game? I cannot figure how someone could be happy with todays performance as it was very clear that before Stevie came on there was only one MOTM... and that was Jay Spearing. Says a lot on the performance in the first half and the beginnning of the second where Newcastle had more possession and controlled the game where as we weren´t able to create anything than headless crosses and runs and sloppy and slow passing.

Gerrard changed the game. The rest was good work but nothing more. It was Newcastle.

But this is a team game. Gerrard plays a much different role than Charlie. At least at present. I don't mean to be harsh on Charlie. but he takes too long on the ball and by the time that our wing players get the ball they have fewer options. And Charlie's occasional runs forward are blunted and typically he looks for a freekick rather than a quick pass. I don't claim to be able to get into a man's head, but I think that the step-up to LFC has affected Adam more than others. He was the offence at Blackpool, while here he is a component. He needs to make the simple pass here because there are often better options available than whatever he can conjure up. His free kicks and corners make me think that he is needlessly putting too much on his shoulders too.

Stevie is Stevie and his goal was sublime, but every player on the pitch was more involved in play when he came on and that is not just down to Stevie's individual genius.

Who is the future you ask? Lucas and Henderson. Henderson has the raw skills to eventually be Stevie-like for us.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 08:12:36 am by Giono »
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Offline redpirate

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #731 on: December 31, 2011, 08:10:32 am »
@optaLenin Every game we have won at Anfield this season, Andy Carroll has played. #winning

So what? Here's another stat...every game we've lost his season, Pepe Reina has been in goal. #losing

Offline cptrios

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #732 on: December 31, 2011, 08:16:14 am »
What centre-forward wouldn't have looked like a goal threat with those crosses aimed at them?

Well, the first one was down to nerves, really - that and what was probably an element of shock at having actually been given a good ball for once. He took a bad first touch, no ifs ands or buts.

The header that hit the bar, though...who else on our team would have been able to get up to that ball and direct it so close to goal? (Keep in mind, I haven't seen highlights yet, so all I have to go on is my memory of the stream I was watching...I could therefore be overestimating the height of Carroll's leap.)

All I know is that Carroll looked much better and more driven when Stevie came on. I don't care if Stevie would have that effect on any single other forward on the planet...as long as Carroll shows his potential, I'm a happy guy.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #733 on: December 31, 2011, 08:21:59 am »
So what? Here's another stat...every game we've lost his season, Pepe Reina has been in goal. #losing
Reina doesn't help win games, he helps not lose them.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #734 on: December 31, 2011, 08:32:20 am »
I’m happy with that win and got what I wished for anyway …. ending the year on a high. 

I thought overall we played quite well; I’m not sure Gerrard deserved man of the match, thought Bellamy was more deserving and it was nice to see Henderson getting more involved.

The only criticism I have is that I notice some of the posters on here who seem to constantly whinge and moan in the pre- and post-match threads haven’t been in here to comment after a win.

It's the negative chain of thought that kicks in - that's why people come on here to moan.

Got to agree, yesterday was no better performance-wise in terms of controlling the game - it was probably worse. But there was so much to discuss and debate.

Skrtel and Aggers performance, Skrtel's clearance, Aggers runs, José's consistency, Jay's performance, Bellamy's overall game, Gerrards game changing introduction, Carroll's show when Stevie finally came on....

There were a couple of negatives - are Glen, Downing and Adam just holding onto the ball a little too long? Is it a confidence thing?

We've got a negative mentality at times. Some folk say things and hope they will come true to support their statements but you are 100% right. So much to discuss - but so little to say! Puts a lot in perspective I suppose.

Offline redpirate

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #735 on: December 31, 2011, 08:33:12 am »
Reina doesn't help win games, he helps not lose them.

So he didn't help us win the FA Cup in 2006? And you don't think a good save is as worthy as a goal?

Offline nocturnalvin

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #736 on: December 31, 2011, 08:37:40 am »
Hasnt seen many people mentioned Glen. I thought he was fantastic. Along with Skrt.

Offline Torpedo Tommy

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #737 on: December 31, 2011, 08:43:07 am »
Gerrard is just head and shoulder above everyone on the pitch there. Pity with the money we spent, we are still relying so heavily on him. Hopefully he will be fit for a long time to come.

He is. But it's also an experience thing too. He knew how to give Andy Carroll the upperhand - he knew that an immediate early ball would reap havoc in the Geordie defence. An early ball to Glen on the right left him with that extra few yards of space. The same with Stewart Downing.

I've said all along that there isn't a great deal wrong with the players we've bought - it was more of a 'gelling' exercise. And whilst that gelling exercise has took longer than expected, Stevie might be the player who is the catalyst. Look at the way is movement made Jordan Henderson's mind up for the through ball? A very good ball from Jordan but without the run, he can't make it.

Yesterday doesn't state that we have turned a corner results-wise. It just plants a seed of doubt in the minds of those who were condemning a couple of our new signings.

Offline Carra23

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #738 on: December 31, 2011, 08:51:59 am »
Think Bellamy or Enrique deserved MOTM but Gerrard getting it after a cameo is testament to the all round quality he brings the team.
Noticed him a few times giving Jordan Henderson a few instructions and it seemed to spur the lad on.
Not a dig at Charlie Adam but we seemed a lot more composed and organised after he went off and Dalglish has a few tough choices to make in the coming weeks.

Great win indeed and special praise for Martin Skrtel for THAT clearance.
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Offline CognacBut

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #739 on: December 31, 2011, 09:00:57 am »
Just seen the Cabaye challenge again, thats just all sorts of wrong, how Spearing didn't come off worse than he did!?

Horrible, cowardly 'tackle'

Offline Thomas

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #740 on: December 31, 2011, 09:01:06 am »
having been to the game I can't help feeling Darren Bent would have scored at least 2 goals last night from the chances we created.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #741 on: December 31, 2011, 09:06:22 am »
Just seen the Cabaye challenge again, thats just all sorts of wrong, how Spearing didn't come off worse than he did!?

Horrible, cowardly 'tackle'
He didn't expect Spearo to get anywhere near the ball, when he did, Cabaye panicked and jumped in.

Don't think it was premeditated or anything...
For me collicinis was probably worse, looked deliberate to me
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Offline hollger

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #742 on: December 31, 2011, 09:08:12 am »
Didn't comment last night post-game as I was busy, but I'm delighted!! Not only a win against opposition I thought would test us severely (based on early season form and having several quality players), but THREE goals!!

Carroll showed more last night, some decent play in the last third and dangerous in the box, shame he couldn't control that fantastic first pass into him but that'll come with game sharpness, and he was unlucky with the header. Still, he managed to add to our "hit the woodwork" count  :-\

Thought Spearing was very good, makes you wonder if we need a Lucas stop-gap. Adam didn't have the best of games but Henderson again showed some nice touches, especially the movement and pass to Stevie for the third. Skrtel, well what can you say, fantastic and the partnership with Agger is looking rock solid.


Watched Tiote and wasn't overly impressed, save for a superb long measured pass after our early corner to set up a counter. He was unlucky with the foul on Agger that led to Bellamy's second but overall didn't have the best of games - however, it's only 1 game and he's looked better before.

Offline 1770ben

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #743 on: December 31, 2011, 09:08:25 am »
Spearing easily MOTM for me, passing was comfortably as good as I've ever seen it.
?? huh?
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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #744 on: December 31, 2011, 09:11:33 am »
Just seen the Cabaye challenge again, thats just all sorts of wrong, how Spearing didn't come off worse than he did!?

Horrible, cowardly 'tackle'

Forgot about this when I replied initially... it was a shocker (although just late rather than intentional, I think). Jay gets sent off for something similar a few weeks back and yet in this instance nothing happens. Comes back to that word we've been asking for a lot lately... consistency.

And don't even get me started on the Coloccini elbow  :wanker

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #745 on: December 31, 2011, 09:13:02 am »
I don't expect you to understand the intricacy of the game, nor do I like your screen-name. So lets stop right here and pretend not to see one another.

Steady on mate. Get off your high horse for a bit. If you use ridiculous hyperbole like "atrocious" to describe Carroll's performance then you're going to get called out on it. And if you're going to get snotty over people's usernames you won't last long on here.

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Offline CognacBut

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #746 on: December 31, 2011, 09:14:57 am »
He didn't expect Spearo to get anywhere near the ball, when he did, Cabaye panicked and jumped in.

Don't think it was premeditated or anything...
For me collicinis was probably worse, looked deliberate to me

What was the refs reaction to it at the time or was there not one? My satellite was fighting its way through a storm at the time so I missed it. 

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #747 on: December 31, 2011, 09:16:53 am »
What was the refs reaction to it at the time or was there not one? My satellite was fighting its way through a storm at the time so I missed it. 

Iirc the ref didn't seem to notice the challenge....

This means the FA can charge Cabaye....

They won't, but they could
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Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #748 on: December 31, 2011, 09:17:13 am »

Thought Spearing was very good, makes you wonder if we need a Lucas stop-gap.

Only concern I would have is injury/suspension.  Part of what makes Spearing the player he is are the tackles and efforts which leave him exposed (or at the mercy of unforgiving officials). The end of the season is miles away, can't afford the risk.

Offline shawnk

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #749 on: December 31, 2011, 09:17:28 am »
How was Newcastle's goal an own goal by Agger? The ball was goal-bound. Didn't look good on Agger for that one.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #750 on: December 31, 2011, 09:18:04 am »
Hasnt seen many people mentioned Glen. I thought he was fantastic. Along with Skrt.

Apart from his shooting ;D

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #751 on: December 31, 2011, 09:19:56 am »
Iirc the ref didn't seem to notice the challenge....

This means the FA can charge Cabaye....

They won't, but they could

They have to, however it was or wasn't intended. But you're more than likely right where the FA are concerned, was against us after all.

Offline Pistolero

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #752 on: December 31, 2011, 09:20:26 am »
He didn't expect Spearo to get anywhere near the ball, when he did, Cabaye panicked and jumped in.

Don't think it was premeditated or anything...
For me collicinis was probably worse, looked deliberate to me


Cabaye jumped in and stamped down on the player in an unnatural way - how the fuck was that not premeditated?.....shocking challenge that should have seen a straight red let alone the second yellow
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Offline ArcticRed

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #753 on: December 31, 2011, 09:25:27 am »
Iirc the ref didn't seem to notice the challenge....

This means the FA can charge Cabaye....

They won't, but they could
From the replays I would say it looks like he's looking straight at the situation. Still doesn't mean he noticed it, though. Pity, really. Think the ref had a fairly decent game overall... a few niggling details wrong here and there. Just two blatant incidents ruins an otherwise good job... the Cabaye- and the Collocini-incident.

Anyone else get the feeling Kenny would've taken Craig off after that one even if he wasn't bleeding? Him being one yellow away from a ban and already slightly hot under the bonnet :)

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #754 on: December 31, 2011, 09:43:07 am »
I don't expect you to understand the intricacy of the game, nor do I like your screen-name. So lets stop right here and pretend not to see one another.

You call Carroll atrocious and then accuse people for not understanding the game.

Go figure.
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #755 on: December 31, 2011, 09:46:35 am »
Just watching the game on sky and can't believe how the Cabaye challenge on Spearing was played down. He should've gone with a straight red.
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Offline JovaJova

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #756 on: December 31, 2011, 09:51:29 am »
To be honest I can't see why anyone would have anything positive to say about Carroll's performance. Shocking movement, misplaced passes, can't run with the ball, no vision at all and consistently messes up simple chances.

Sure he might score a few with Gerrard now supplying pinpoint crosses directly onto his head six yards out, but in a passing team like Dalglish has built I'm at a loss to see how he will ever fit in. The ability just isn't there.

Other than Carroll, the team is functioning well. I can't think of many matches we have played poorly in this season.
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Offline red_dub

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #757 on: December 31, 2011, 10:05:54 am »
Great result, with many positives!
Ref was inconsistent again though! Some shockin tackles including the elbow on Bellamy who was class again!
Carrol was a yard off scoring a hattrick, just shows what happens when u provide good service,
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Offline CognacBut

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #758 on: December 31, 2011, 10:06:43 am »
To be honest I can't see why anyone would have anything positive to say about Carroll's performance. Shocking movement, misplaced passes, can't run with the ball, no vision at all and consistently messes up simple chances.

Sure he might score a few with Gerrard now supplying pinpoint crosses directly onto his head six yards out, but in a passing team like Dalglish has built I'm at a loss to see how he will ever fit in. The ability just isn't there.

Other than Carroll, the team is functioning well. I can't think of many matches we have played poorly in this season.

On the occasions he came deep, he linked up the play well and kept us moving forward. Granted he didn't look at the races in and around the box, aside from the header from Gerrard's early cross.

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Re: Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle: Full time.....
« Reply #759 on: December 31, 2011, 10:07:33 am »
Spearing easily MOTM for me, passing was comfortably as good as I've ever seen it.
Gotta agree with yer on this one.... Bellamy was superb as was Stevie when he came on - but Spearing was steady all the way through, wouldnt say he bossed the midfield but he done his job perfectly & considering Tiote is supposed to be one of the most revered (sp) defensive midfielders in the league at the moment Spearing deffo outshone him tonight - MOTM for me !
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