Author Topic: What's Going Wrong This Season?  (Read 18210 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
What's Going Wrong This Season?
« on: September 11, 2006, 08:54:50 am »
Let's start by stating the obvious: it's not been the start anyone wanted. But before going any further, it's important to remember that it's three games into the league season, and the first defeat in six games during 2006/07.

It's been an inconsistent start, but not a disastrous one, however thoroughly depressing the defeat at Goodison was; the problem will be if the Reds don't bounce back from it, but we know this team has character. If it can come down from terrible positions in two successive cup finals, it can come back with a massive 105 points still to play for.

It was the first time we've failed to score this season, and drawing blanks was a problem last time out. Keeping clean sheets is now the concern; and a genuine concern at that. But we know these are good defenders. And outstanding protective midfielders. And that a great tactician is managing the team. How many times in the past has he corrected problems?

Of course, finding a referee who can see what's going on would help; tactics go out the window if the referees make poor calls at important stages of matches.

In the last two games both Crouch and Hyypia have been the victims of blatant shirt-tugging in the area with games standing at 0-0 – the kind that saw Chelsea get off the hook at Blackburn with the (correct) award of a penalty when the game was also scoreless. Where's the consistency? This is supposed to be a new directive in England for all teams, not just those owned by Russian billionaires.

Everton were the beneficiaries of four crucial decisions in the derby. That said, I still can't decide if we did enough to win the game; it's weird, as on another day it could have finished 3-3 or even 5-3 to the Reds 'with a bit more luck' and a matter of millimetres in terms of accuracy where hitting the post was concerned. But with errors at the back we certainly did enough to make sure we lost it. Graham Poll's errors merely compounded the issue.

The fixture list hasn't been kind, either – especially when compared with Man Utd's easy start, that looked a nailed-on 12 points before a ball was kicked. I'd be much more worried if I was an Arsenal fan; like the Reds, they've also only played three games, but two were at home, and both were home bankers. They've yet to play a really good team, or a London derby.

The last game Liverpool ever want after a two-week international break, when nearly all the players have been away to play two games across the continent, is the away derby (especially with the Blues buoyant). By contrast, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal all had 'easy' home fixtures this weekend.

How the hell do you prepare for it with only a handful of senior players around? Maybe that's why Rafa went with only one new player, in Fabio Aurelio, and even that was forced by Riise's recent injury; it was a case of looking for the familiarity amongst the players. It was a difficult game to throw the new boys into, but one in which their talents were also missed.

For two years I've been pointing out how well Everton (like Bolton) do when they have time to prepare for a game, but as soon as they have two games in a week, as they did in Europe last season, they fall apart. Their game is about total effort, but the kind that cannot be sustained beyond one game a week.

Clearly Peter Crouch and Steven Gerrard – two of the fittest Reds – were less fresh and sharp than the Everton players, most of whom had been on the training ground with David Moyes, plotting Liverpool's downfall.

It doesn't matter how fit you are if the opposition, who should be equally fit, have not had to expend excess energy in the build-up to a big game. Andy Johnson, who proved a real handful, wasn't training with Everton, but he also only played about ten minutes of football with England. He ran about 400 metres in those games, while Crouch and Gerrard ran marathons.

The Champions League qualifier got in the way in August, and cost Liverpool a home game (so by next week, after Chelsea away, it'll be three tough away games to just one medium-difficulty home fixture). But if you finish 3rd or 4th the year before, that's the price to pay. However, even defeat away to Chelsea would mean 50% of the toughest away fixtures finished for the season.

The international fixture list has been a joke, with Steve McLaren flogging key Reds in the friendly against Greece just days before the tricky away start at Sheffield United. Then two more internationals quickly followed, and more disruption. It's been a stop-start opening to the campaign, made all the more difficult by injuries to key defenders (and neither Carragher nor Riise looked fit at Goodison, the former making an uncharacteristic error and the latter stretchered off again), and the process of bedding in new players and evolving the style of play around them. At least we now have a run of six games, four in the league, before the next irritating two-week break.

Rotation is easy to blame, but it's worked for Rafa over the last five years. It's a long-term strategy, based on maximising effectiveness over the course of 60 games; it cannot be judged when it goes wrong in any individual game, especially as nothing can prove that the alternative team selection would have definitely been better. 

It's so easy to say with hindsight that we'd have done better with omitted players. Had Crouch not played and we had lost, Rafa would have been labelled foolish to omit the man in form, who has scored seven goals for club and country already this season. Had Fowler not played and we had lost, then it would have been madness to leave out the local lad who understands these games the most – the one striker not away on international duty.

We have so many good players now, that if you leave one out he's instantly the player who was missed if things go wrong; cue "damned rotation". Leave out Alonso, and we'll bemoan the absence of his passing. Leave out a winger, and we'll miss the width he provides. Unless Rafa can sneak 14 players onto the pitch, there will be extremely effective players left out of games, and that will give fans something to blame if things go wrong.

We needed the newly purchased players – that's clear. This is now a squad nearing completion. However, so much change can lead to instability. It takes time to make a mix, to blend the ingredients.

Players are still settling in, but yet again Dirk Kuyt showed in a brief cameo how good a footballer he is. Pennant has shown he can add pace and cross the ball, as indeed has Mark Gonzalez. Craig Bellamy, whose long-standing hamstring problems possibly prohibit him from starting three games in a week, is going to cause teams problems. Fabio Aurelio has looked more mixed, with a willingness to tackle and clear ability on the ball, without yet seeming comfortable. But as a collective it's not hanging together properly. Yet.

Clearly there are teething problems, but at this early stage they are nothing more. We've seen teething problems before, such as with zonal marking, before the Reds became the most effective team in the land at defending set-pieces.

It could take another two months to get everyone on the same wavelength. Even if that is the case, it needn't be too late for a title challenge, providing the form is good from that point onwards – like last year – and, crucially, the top teams are beaten this year, if only just at Anfield, unlike last time around. But if we kick into gear in the next week or two, that'll mean we will do so a whole month earlier than last term – when most Reds were suicidal in October.

The overreaction to the Everton defeat is understandable; that doesn't make it right to write off the title challenge, and (as many have) start saying we'll finish mid-table or 30 points behind Chelsea, etc. Before last season started I predicted we'd get 80 points. Then, after the slow start, I revised it down to 75 points; at that stage I was lambasted for being an optimist. We ended with 82.

The league table needs time to settle into shape: when everyone has had a number of both tough and easy games, home and away. Rafa's teams have gone on long unbeaten runs on a number of occasions, so we know what can happen once everything settles down. Dirk Kuyt, his most exciting signing, has hardly had a chance to feature, but that will change.

These are all extenuating circumstances, not necessarily excuses. Some might be a case of clutching at straws, but cannot be ignored all the same. It almost doesn't matter what side you pick if the referee allows the opposition to score two early goals and denies you an even earlier penalty – the game is already shaped.

The quicker the defence is back to its best, the better. Too many individual errors are being made, from players who were so reliable last season. Based on the analysis in The Red Review, Jamie Carragher did not make one single goal-costing error in the league last season; already he's made one this. Despite a couple of high-profile gaffs, Pepe Reina only made five serious errors last season; the year before, Dudek, Carson and Kirkland made 17 between them.

Dips in the form of certain key individuals are only confusing the issue of finding the right blend. Xabi Alonso is not at his best, and Steven Gerrard has misplaced his shooting boots. Jamie Carragher is playing with an injury and appeared to bottle his first challenge in ten years.

All of these players were at the World Cup, having featured in most of the 122 games the Reds played in the previous two seasons. They were late back to pre-season training, and having been all over Europe last week, they need to find their bearings in a Red shirt. There's an edge, a sharpness – dulled by the efforts for their countries in the build-up to the derby – that should now be ready to start shining through.

For all the setbacks, we have to trust, based on his constant ability to solve problems and overcome tricky periods, that Rafa can get things right on the training ground, now that he has his players back for six straight weeks. There's still plenty of time left to turn things around.

© Paul Tomkins 2006

"The Red Review" is available this week from www.paultomkins.com priced £11.99. Not in shops until November


Offline Fred Madison

  • Jazz saxophonist, now masquerading as a mechanic after probably murdering his wife.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,733
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 09:00:23 am »
'Hope' is the word.
Let's hope they learn from this. Let's hope they get a good result against PSV this week.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 09:11:33 am »
Most of the problems so far have been caused by stupid individual mistakes from players who we have become accustomed to never making such errors. As such, you'd assume that this is a blip, some pre-season rustiness, rather than something more systemic and sinister.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Stretch Armstrong

  • Had sex with a swan
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,017
    • My LFC Blog!
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2006, 09:14:04 am »
I simply think Rafa is changing the tactics and like his first season we are struggling to get to grips with it - the defence is looking more shakey now the midfield cover as been lessened and with the full back being more attacked based.  Central midfield is finding it much harder and especially Xabi who needs time and space not getting ran down constantly - do I feel the sacrifice of our 4-5-1/4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 is worth it, depends if Rafa is doing it for the right reason - the reason should be to improve us on the pitch and not because he wants to prove certain doubters wrongs by playing attacking football
homepage: www.liverpoolmoods.com

Follow me on Twatter: @toggerguru

Offline Raul!

  • No nude LFC topics - Sir Raul la di Dah of Coverpoint - Imminently Female
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,037
  • My nipples explode with delight
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2006, 09:17:03 am »
Most of the problems so far have been caused by stupid individual mistakes from players who we have become accustomed to never making such errors. As such, you'd assume that this is a blip, some pre-season rustiness, rather than something more systemic and sinister.
Spot on.  Plus the injuries to key members of the defence.  I would expect us to deal with them better a bit later in the season - they are harder to manage early on when the team is in the process of settling down.

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2006, 09:21:28 am »
Clearly the start of this season have been nothing short of a disaster - one win,one draw and one defeat in the opening 3 games for a club wanting to win the Premiership is not acceptable.


Get a grip. And a dictionary. Disaster?

Offline byrnetred

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,283
  • We are men of Shankly's best...
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2006, 09:22:07 am »
it has been a stop start so far due to the international fixtures...we havin been able to get an rhythm together because of this...

for both the sheffield united and the everton game we had one day to prepare for these games....this along with individual errors has been the main reason to our sluggish start...

im fairly confident that now over the next 11 weeks(in which we have pretty much 2 games a week)that we will find our rhythm and we will be better prepared for the upcoming games...
...i miss my scouse accent...

Offline nidgemo

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,836
  • Semper in excremento, sole profundum qui variat.
  • Super Title: Coming soon! Official Launch May 2008
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2006, 09:25:37 am »
Good stuff Paul, and I agree with a large amount of it.

I DON'T however, believe that we've got time yet to get it together.

A loss at Chelsea will see us on 4 points, with 102 left to play for. In a league where nowadays 94 points+ is required to lift the title, we'd only have 12 points to play with all season.

That's 34 games, 30 wins and 4 losses, (or 28 wins 6 draws and no losses for the rest of the season) to even have a CHANCE at the title.

Think about that. Credible draws against Arsenal twice, Man U twice, and at Anfield against Chelsea. and win EVERY other game of the season. No slip ups, no tiredness, no off days. Just to even have a CHANCE of winning the title.

In my mind, a loss at the bridge, and it's gone.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 09:31:26 am by nidgemo »
I'm no longer on RAWK, but if you need to contact me about anything, you can email me on nigelmorrison@connectfree.co.uk

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,470
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2006, 09:26:46 am »
Paul, I have read brilliant sporting synopses before. Some by your goodself. However, the above synopsis - concerning the start to the current campaign and specifically a game regarding which every other report and internet forum opinion I've so far read plus every radio phone-in/pub opinion I've heard have found it almost impossible to avoid going down a blind alley of simplistic inaccuracy - is so good, so balanced and so unnerringly focused as to defy belief.

Seriously, thanks for encapsulating everything bouncing round in this bonce of mine.

Offline Fred Madison

  • Jazz saxophonist, now masquerading as a mechanic after probably murdering his wife.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,733
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2006, 09:32:45 am »
Good stuff Paul, and I agree with a large amount of it.

I DON'T however, believe that we've got time yet to get it together.

A loss at Chelsea will see us on 4 points, with 102 left to play for. In a league where nowadays 94 points+ is required to lift the title, we'd only have 12 points to play with all season.

That's 34 games, 30 wins and 4 losses, (or 28 wins 6 draws and no losses for the rest of the season) to even have a CHANCE at the title.

Think about that. Credible draws against Arsenal twice, Man U twice, and at Anfield against Chelsea. and win EVERY other game of the season. No slip ups, no tiredness, no off days. Just to even have a CHANCE of winning the title.

In my mind, a loss at the bridge, and it's gone.
Yup.

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2006, 09:35:38 am »
Paul, I have read brilliant sporting synopses before. Some by your goodself. However, the above synopsis - concerning the start to the current campaign and specifically a game regarding which every other report and internet forum opinion I've so far read plus every radio phone-in/pub opinion I've heard have found it almost impossible to avoid going down a blind alley of simplistic inaccuracy - is so good, so balanced and so unnerringly focused as to defy belief.

Seriously, thanks for encapsulating everything bouncing round in this bonce of mine.


Cheers, Timbo. There are so many factors at play, and can't see the point of saying "it's all down to rotation, dammit".


In my mind, a loss at the bridge, and it's gone.


It's my belief that there's a great chance the league will be won with no more than 85 points this year. You can't say for certain that you'll need that many points; what about the teams relegated with 41 points, when 40 was always seen as safe? Other years, the best relegated team might get about 30 points. We've finished 3rd with 82 points, and other years that's won the title.

There were years in the '90s when the points tally for the champions (United) were up around the 90-point mark. Within a season or two teams were winning with 75-80 points. (In 1999 the "all conquering" Mancs won with 91 points; a year later they won the league again with just 80 points).

Chelsea will drop a lot more points this time around, and the Mancs have yet to have a tough game - but they will. Defeat at the Bridge will make it tricky, but the title is NEVER gone after four games. That's preposterous. Plenty of teams who won their first 8-10 league games (Mancs in the 80s, us in 1990/91) have been overtaken. So much can still happen. If Arsenal, the Mancs and ourselves can take *any* points off Chelsea, that will make a massive difference.

If we beat Chelsea and Man United at Anfield, and draw both away games, that'd be a massive coup.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 09:38:10 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Legend
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2006, 09:39:52 am »
If we had lost to maybe Arsenal, or even someone like Spurs, well anyone except the blueshite I don't think there would have been this kind of knee jerk (not your article, but general feeling).

If we had won this then everything would have been rosy.  We are going to lose games this season, hopefully only a handful more, but we will lose them.  No team is unbeatable (except THAT Arsenal side).

We have have a better side than last year and I remember an article saying we acheieved the most points (more than Chelsea) after the 1st 5 6 games?  Paul it was your article I think so please correct me.

The point I am making is that we are good enough and consistant enough. We have a better squad on paper this time around so once the gel, it will be OK.  Hopefully we will see a balanced side from now on and no fucking around from Mr Benitez.  Get the better players starting, our best XI out there.  

Of course there are going to be 100 best XI posted on the web, but we have 8 or 9 certs for that side.

Reina
Carra
Sami
Finnan
Gerrard
Sissoko
Pennant
Kuyt

Xabi (on present form), Crouch, Bellamy, Gonzales, Riise and Aurellio are going to be and can be rotated as per who we are playing, but the players above have to start every game they are fit and ready for.

Offline Dick Winters

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 917
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2006, 09:42:42 am »
Good stuff Paul, and I agree with a large amount of it.

I DON'T however, believe that we've got time yet to get it together.

A loss at Chelsea will see us on 4 points, with 102 left to play for. In a league where nowadays 94 points+ is required to lift the title, we'd only have 12 points to play with all season.

That's 34 games, 30 wins and 4 losses, (or 28 wins 6 draws and no losses for the rest of the season) to even have a CHANCE at the title.

Think about that. Credible draws against Arsenal twice, Man U twice, and at Anfield against Chelsea. and win EVERY other game of the season. No slip ups, no tiredness, no off days. Just to even have a CHANCE of winning the title.

In my mind, a loss at the bridge, and it's gone.

It scares the shit out of me but I believe this. 

What is worrying me this season so far is the fact that a few of our lads seem to have had a dip in form.  Xabi has not started as well as he is capable of - although I felt on Saturday he is showing signs of his old self.  Pepe, known previously for his concentration, has seemingly lost some of his (fortunately) in the two games where he has made mistakes it hasn't cost us - we beat the Hammers and the game was gone against Everton anyway.

It also appears that we need to gel again as a side, something I hadn't considered.  The injuries to key defenders has not helped with our solidity at the back and the new players look promising but they obviously are going to take time to get to know one another but by then and it goes back to Nidge's point, it could be gone for us. 

I believe we have a master tactician in Rafa who will sort out the problem and I suspect he will do it this week when he has a full week with the players but let's hope we get back on track sooner rather than later.

Offline Red-juvenated

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,952
  • "Normal One"
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2006, 09:43:31 am »
Agree with what you say Paul, the disappointment is understandable and with the fixtures coming so early and with all the international disruptions, it was always going to be hard to get a favourable result in such an important game.

Its early days and the team has not had a chance to settle yet. The next 2 gamess are also tough, but after that, the 3 home games will be ideal to get the team into some sort of rhythm. Our attacking options are vastly improved, and even in the game agaist Everton we had more of the posssesion, more attacks, more corners and more chances. These are only going to get better.

Its our defence that produced so many clean sheets last season that needs to settle, and Rafa is likely to get defensive for the next 2 games and most likely resort to a 4-5-1 for both games. We need to be strong in defence to enable the midfield and strikers to keep the play higher up. We know we have the squad to achieve that, so its just a matter of time, no worries.
Doubters to Believers

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2006, 09:44:03 am »
It's my belief that there's a great chance the league will be won with no more than 85 points this year. You can't say for certain that you'll need that many points; what about the teams relegated with 41 points, when 40 was always seen as safe? Other years, the best relegated team might get about 30 points. We've finished 3rd with 82 points, and other years that's won the title.

There were years in the '90s when the points tally for the champions (United) were up around the 90-point mark. Within a season or two teams were winning with 75-80 points. (In 1999 the "all conquering" Mancs won with 91 points; a year later they won the league again with just 80 points).

That would go against a general upward trend in the points required to win the title that has existed since 1997.

1982   42   87
1983   42   82
1984   42   80
1985   42   90
1986   42   88
1987   42   86
1988   40   90
1989   38   76
1990   38   79
1991   38   83
1992   42   82
1993   42   84
1994   42   92
1995   42   89
1996   38   82
1997   38   75
1998   38   78
1999   38   79
2000   38   91
2001   38   80
2002   38   87
2003   38   83
2004   38   90
2005   38   95
2006   38   91

Which isn't to say it won't happen of course.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2006, 09:47:30 am »

We have have a better side than last year and I remember an article saying we acheieved the most points (more than Chelsea) after the 1st 5 6 games?  Paul it was your article I think so please correct me.


I think it was from mid-October onwards we won more points than Chelsea. 

However, I can see how people will say "well, we're already stuffed", as even if we do the same again we can't win it.

But the key is the games we didn't win - against Chelsea and United. If we win those this season, even if just at Anfield, it takes more points away from our rivals. Chelsea won seven of the eight league games against us, Arsenal and United - I just can't see them doing the same this season.

Chelsea have already dropped more points than this time last season. In fact, while we have started on pretty much the same level as we did last season (one point down after three games), Chelsea are already three points down after just four games. Last season we drew four and lost one of our first six games. A win and a draw against Spurs and Newcastle (even though we should win both) - whatever happens at Chelsea next week - and we will be enjoying a better start, and Chelsea will still be on a far worse start.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 09:52:00 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Legend
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2006, 09:55:24 am »
Exactly.  We lost twice to Chelsea, even a draw this season is clawing 2 points back from them.  Our biggest problem last year was againts the other big sides.

Chelsea =  L L
Man Utd =  D L
Arsenal  =  W L

If we can get 10-12 points againts those it will go a long way towards getting back on track and contending.  We SHOULD be winning at least 9 against them.  We SHOULD win our home games against them.

Offline Paul Tomkins

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,475
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2006, 09:58:56 am »
If we can get 10-12 points againts those it will go a long way towards getting back on track and contending.  We SHOULD be winning at least 9 against them.  We SHOULD win our home games against them.


Totally agree. It's an area where we have to do better, and where Chelsea will almost certainly do worse.

I'd rather we were in Man Utd's position right now, but let's see how things pan out once they play non-London teams. Chelsea remain the biggest threat, and as I said, they've already dropped three points in just four games.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 10:01:06 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline only6times

  • a night. Founder of the Breck Road Brasses mediation service. Owner of an out of control Fat Finger.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,116
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2006, 10:12:43 am »
i think if were all truthful we know the key games are against the other top sides,weve had a bad start in terms of injuries and preparation,and i think any side,chelsea included ,would feel the loss of their main centre half and full back.the key is not to panic and to trust the man who won us our 5th EUROPEAN CUP,obviously i'm gutted about saturday,but how many goals have we conceded like those in the last 2 years?under GH it was every 2 weeks,so chin up lads, we'll be in athens in may.keep the faith.
bitter,not me.a granddad,but I'm not even 40

Offline StormyDog

  • You know had only 4 shots on target
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,522
  • Give yourself the chance to be Heroes
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2006, 10:22:31 am »
How many days in full training have the first team had together this season since the United game (maybe 5 tops i reckon).

It is allways the case that a "lower" team with few internationals can spend longer on matchday preparations than one with most of their first team players absent.

For gods sake they played a 4-5-1 AT HOME. Yes it worked (mostly because the first two goals were clearly scored in the same phase as a foul committed against Liverpool players), but we should have scored AT LEAST three goals on Saturday (including the most bl antant pen this season, NOTE how did Terry get a pen against Blackburn and we not get one against the BS).

Yes we are missing cohesion in the back-5 but it's not all doom and gloom yet.

Pep Guardiola: "We knew immediately when the draw was made - Anfield, they won it five times, the fans believe - it will be hard. We were beaten by an exceptional team."

Offline bigbear

  • offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to arrest and imprisonment of the international porridge thief and furniture wrecker Goldilocks
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 24,560
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2006, 10:34:49 am »
Saturday was a day where what could go wrong did.

Yes, we were average but could very easily have still won that game by 2 or 3 goals.

The first goal in a Derby is massive (as in any big game) and especially when it goes to the underdog. Firstly it gives them belief that it is their day and secondly it reinforces their 4-5-1 system and lets them play on the break even more with Johnson running in behind as we pushed on.

The first goal could very easily have been disallowed and as Paul points out at the top a penalty awarded to us within the same couple of minutes. Both decisions went against us when just one of them would have changed the game.

The problems we have are down to individual errors which is what an international break causes at this stage of the season. Players are still looking for fitness and yet they're taken out of training for joke fixtures v Andorra etc.

It's not all doom and gloom and if we can remain unbeaten in our next 2 matches I'll retain some confidence. Our points position of 5 points from 4 games will be poor but 2 wins at home and the game in hand played will change the mood entirely.

If after 6 games we have 11 points having drew at Chelsea and beaten Spurs and Newcastle then we'll have dropped 7 from a tricky start whilst Chelsea will have dropped at least 5 from a much easier set of fixtures.

The wind will come out of United's sails in time. Right now they're getting the breaks that we are not getting. Spurs could and should have scored on Saturday and those efforts are going in against us.

We know we have a good players and a great manager so these things will change. Keep the faith.

Offline ben

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,326
  • dont you know who i think i am?
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2006, 10:37:54 am »
i fancy us to beat chelsea more than i fancied us to beat everton for some reason.

Offline Welshred

  • CBE. To be fair to him, he is a massive twat. Professional Ladies' Arse Fondler. Possibly......we're not sure any more......
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,608
  • JFT96
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2006, 10:41:36 am »
For me it was the World Cup Paul, I know Mourinho was moaning about having most of his players away for the World Cup and couldn't start pre season properly until a few weeks before the start of the season and it was the same with us, most of our key players were away at the World Cup and only started pre season training 2 weeks before the start of the Premiership season. Added to that a tough start to the season fixture wise compared to Utd and Chelsea, and a disjointed one to that with the international fixtures, then that for me is why we've started inconsistantly.

The squad have probably spent more time away from Rafa than they have with Rafa in the last two months, give the season a little time to settle down and for the new boys to settle in and we'll be on fire. I reckon by the end of October people will be waxing lyrical about how well Liverpool are playing and how close to the title we'll be this season. I still firmly believe we'll win the title, we just need to settle down.

Offline Crosby Nick

  • He was super funny. Used to do these super hilarious puns
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 111,698
  • Poultry in Motion
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2006, 10:42:33 am »
Nice one Paul - always good to read a balanced (well slightly red-tinted!) perspective. Yes the self-inflicted manner of the defeat hurts at the moment but in the grand scheme of things this will soon be forgotten. I'm very confident we can go on lengthy winning runs like we did last season so honestly think everything is still to play for.

The only concern is Chelsea away next week and we also play United and Arsenal away in the next couple of months. I think the reality is we're going to be a few points off the pace by this stage but then common sense suggests we should be able to claw points back on them when the easier run of fixtures come along.

Does anyone not expect us to improve? Does anyone think Rafa won't be able to improve things? Keep the faith!


Offline horne

  • y
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,526
  • through a storm
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2006, 10:45:44 am »
every season is different and strange things happen along the way.....thats   a definate common denominator amongst all the previous seasons points tally...what i mean is you can never truly estimate points( thank god) because we can never pre judge  how stronger the middle to lower teams will be untill the season is largely underway...if the majority of these teams have gained in quality and performance ,then i suspect that points will tumble for all the top four sides more regularly therefore possibly allowing a premiership victory with fewer points.....and you never know what injuries are around the corner thus having a massive effect on some clubs .
i still believe that we will come good and if we do win it this season,just like istanbul we wouldnt have wanted it any other way(i can see it now ,last game of the season and liverpool need a win to win the league..   8)  .. bring it on!)
success = the absence of the fear of failure

Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Legend
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2006, 10:48:08 am »
The goals we have conceded are defensive errors, or fluke (Zamora).  I suppose you could argue all goals conceded are from error, but we have not been turned over and conceded goals to pure class.

These problems with sort themselves out, the players are better than that.  Once we keep a couple of clean sheets, the confidence will come swarming back.

Offline JP-65

  • FA/UEFA/FIFA are not fit for purpose
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,772
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2006, 10:50:54 am »
Quote
I'd rather we were in Man Utd's position right now, but let's see how things pan out once they play non-London teams. Chelsea remain the biggest threat, and as I said, they've already dropped three points in just four games.

Chelsea started last season with 10 wins and a draw, this season they have already dropped 3 points, and have us and Spurs to play in their first 11.  So they will be worse off for sure, even with an easy schedule.... only 3 top 10 teams in their first 11 matches.

Man Utd have Arsenal, ourselves and Bolton away in their first 11, so room for dropped points.  Even with their good start, they are only 2 points up on last years start.

If we lose at Chelsea, we'll be 2 points behind last seasons start, and Chelsea will be 3 points behind.  If we draw we'll be 1 point behind, and Chelsea will be 5 points behind......sort of supports the view that it ain't over yet!

Offline scarse

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2006, 10:55:21 am »
To me there are fundamental errors being made.1)Stevie is not a winger.He is the World's best central midfielder who is also good enough to play wide.Crouch thrives on service from quick widemen like Pennant and Gonzalez who we bought for that purpose.Why not play them?Pennant was fresh having not played an international yet didn't play.Rafa learn from Venables and look how Crouch scores from Lennon's delivery.2)Related to the first point Alonso doesn't like a battle-Stevie does.We 'lost' the midfield to Carsley .Surely Stevie and Sissoko or Stevie and Alonso wiould have been better?3)I'm sorry but Robbie has 'gone'.I will live on his memories but he was in City's reserves last season for a reason.he was 'fresh' on Saturday but you could have fooled me.Playing him and a tired Crouch gave us no pace.Again a fundamental error.Rafa is not infallible and he made big mistakes.Let's face it though he doesn't make many.

Offline Walshy nMe®

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 28,373
  • Legend
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2006, 10:57:46 am »
To me there are fundamental errors being made.1)Stevie is not a winger.He is the World's best central midfielder who is also good enough to play wide.

Maybe Xabi will get a rest and we'll see Stevie and The Machine in the middle.

Offline calleythered

  • no identity anymore...just Archies dad
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Anny Roader
  • ******
  • Posts: 332
  • not quite a purple bin, more maroon like....
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2006, 10:58:55 am »
if the charity shield is anything to go by, im a hell of a lot more optimistic about the game.

they just dont seem the mighty propisition they were imo. I hope lampards poor form continues and the way they are struggling to integrate the new signings is something im sure benitez will pick up upon.
we aplogise for our temporary dip in success however we are pleased to announce that normal service has been resumed.

Offline RedVash

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,237
  • ...through the storm...
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2006, 11:01:30 am »
we are like last season...waiting to play against Chelsea to see if we could try to win the title...this time we have to do win.I hope to wear a big smile on my face next week .
RED is not a colour.
RED is a way of life.

Offline Andy-oh-six

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,845
  • Mr Susan in 'the world of mirrors'...
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2006, 11:05:06 am »
Maybe Xabi will get a rest and we'll see Stevie and The Machine in the middle.

More likely to see Bolo and Momo, I'm afraid.
Internet terrorist

Offline Carra23

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,999
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2006, 11:07:25 am »
Of course, finding a referee who can see what's going on would help; tactics go out the window if the referees make poor calls at important stages of matches.
We cannot use the referee as an excuse especially when we have had a fair share of refereeing errors go our way in the past. These mistakes only seemed to be highlighted if it costs us.
If we take that avenue we would sound no better than the bitters.

The fixture list hasn't been kind, either – especially when compared with Man Utd's easy start, that looked a nailed-on 12 points before a ball was kicked.
If Man USA had an easy start then what did Everton have? 2 away games v Spurs & Blackburn and 2 home games v Watford & Liverpool. That looked like a certain 4 points but they have 10.
You can add Portsmouth's start too. Away games to Boro & Man city and home games v Wigan & Blackburn and it is a quite impressive return of 10 points, 8 scored and 0 conceded.

We all have to play the same teams in a season, it does not matter when you play them and you can only beat what is in front of you. Man USA did not have to play a Community Shield or 2 CL Qualifiers either.

Titles and Trophies are not won in the first few games of a season, but the 'end of season' run in could have an impact on who wins what and looking at the fixture list I'm sure Man USA & Chelsea would be reminding us that it is WE who have the easiest run in.







Sent from my laptop using my fingers to type

Offline Cheshire_Cat

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2006, 11:10:03 am »
Chelsea have already dropped more points than this time last season. In fact, while we have started on pretty much the same level as we did last season (one point down after three games), Chelsea are already three points down after just four games. Last season we drew four and lost one of our first six games. A win and a draw against Spurs and Newcastle (even though we should win both) - whatever happens at Chelsea next week - and we will be enjoying a better start, and Chelsea will still be on a far worse start.

However if you compare our results against the same teams last season, I think Chelsea are better, and we're worse off.

LFC - drew against (say) Brum away; beat West Ham at home; and beat the Bitters away, last season - so this year we're 3 points down on last season;

Chelsea - lost to Boro away, lost to Blackburn away (I think, but haven't checked), drew with Charlton at home, and beat City at home - so they're 5 points better off.

It seems (in some peoples eyes) we've gone from Champions to relegation candidates in 1 game.  ::)

Mad hysteria  :butt

Even a loss to Chelsea on Sunday wouldn't be the end of the season. I'd be made up with a draw. And if you'd offered me a win, a draw, and a loss from this week - I'd take a loss to the bitters, and a win over Chelsea (from a winning the league perspective).

As you say Paul, the games against Chelsea & Man U at Anfield are the key games.

But for heavens sake lets get some perspective.  :wave

Offline kaz1983

  • "Bloody Memory Wavers" Currently in debt with RAWK.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,505
  • Well dunno what to say, honest
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2006, 11:28:23 am »
To me there are fundamental errors being made.1)Stevie is not a winger.He is the World's best central midfielder who is also good enough to play wide.

No Gerrard isn't a winger. But if Rafa wants to play Gerrard, Sissoko and Alonso in the same starting eleven, he will start out on the right. He is has freedom, from defensive duties when playing out wide and can be more of attacking threat. He can drift in behind the strikers and score goals. He scored 23 goals in all competitions last season doing that.



« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 11:32:50 am by kaz1983 »

Offline roadofbones

  • Boys Pen
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2006, 11:31:07 am »
I don't know about anyone else, but I've always felt that this would just be a season too early for the title.  There's no doubting that we have our best squad in years.  However, when you sign 5 (Pennant, Bellamy, Kuyt, Gonzalez, Aurelio) possible first team players, things are likely to go a little less smoothly whilst these players are settling in and learning how to play together.  There's no way that we will have as much upheaval in the squad next year.  We'll sign maybe one or two top quality players, our squad will be far more settled and fully rested over the summer,  and then we'll see the best from them.
Re: The Premiership.  "We will march on a road of bones."

Offline xavidub

  • Not on message, ennui
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,355
  • SOS Member No. 6218
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2006, 11:32:27 am »
Good stuff Paul, and I agree with a large amount of it.

I DON'T however, believe that we've got time yet to get it together.

A loss at Chelsea will see us on 4 points, with 102 left to play for. In a league where nowadays 94 points+ is required to lift the title, we'd only have 12 points to play with all season.

That's 34 games, 30 wins and 4 losses, (or 28 wins 6 draws and no losses for the rest of the season) to even have a CHANCE at the title.

Think about that. Credible draws against Arsenal twice, Man U twice, and at Anfield against Chelsea. and win EVERY other game of the season. No slip ups, no tiredness, no off days. Just to even have a CHANCE of winning the title.

In my mind, a loss at the bridge, and it's gone.

I don't agree. The league is more competitive with Arsenal, Villa, West Ham, Man U and Chelsea as well as ourselves all capable of taking points away from each other. 94 points will not be needed to win the title, more like 86. Therefore we still have a chance even if we lose at the bridge. We are playing our toughest fixtures of the season now, something that may stand in our favour later
You have to try very hard to see what's going on in front of your face

Offline a partridge in seat_5c

  • blames English football
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,656
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2006, 11:35:42 am »
oh bollocks to next season, it'll be a different set of excuses

we'll simply have to go and win at the Bridge

that's what a title-winning side should be doing

we CAN go there and get 3 points, we're good enough, it's time to leave the fuck-ups back at Melwood and go and do the business

lets twat these cockneyrussianportugueseghanaiandutchgermanivorycoastian bastards
 :lickin

Offline Libertine

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,488
  • Nothing behind me, everything ahead of me
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2006, 11:42:13 am »
I don't know about anyone else, but I've always felt that this would just be a season too early for the title.  There's no doubting that we have our best squad in years.  However, when you sign 5 (Pennant, Bellamy, Kuyt, Gonzalez, Aurelio) possible first team players, things are likely to go a little less smoothly whilst these players are settling in and learning how to play together.  There's no way that we will have as much upheaval in the squad next year.  We'll sign maybe one or two top quality players, our squad will be far more settled and fully rested over the summer,  and then we'll see the best from them.

i tend to agree. there seems to be a sense in a lot of posts that not winning the league this year would be a disaster.

personally i don't think we'll win. i desperately hope we do, i think its definately possible despite our start and regardless of what happens next sunday.

i just think there's an awful lot that would need to go our way, not the least of which is getting 6 new players bedded into the team. this is the last year of major squad changes - we should see the results over the following three years.

we might well win nothing this year which would be disappointing but the important thing is to continue to see progress and have rafa's plan and squad come together playing the football he wants.

Offline Kaizer

  • Quaresmatic
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,121
  • Wonder is the beginning of wisdom.
Re: What's Going Wrong This Season?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2006, 11:44:29 am »
I have started a thread where I am going to follow our defensive set up this season, and I think there is a simple reason to why things have gone "wrong" so far this season.

We have simply not been able to use our best defense in more than one match, the first competitive match of the season against Maccabi Haifa as early as 10.08.

Last season showed us how important and how good the defensive unit of Finnan, Carra, Hyypia , Riise was, and for me the fact we have not been able to field them together this season and the fact we have conceded goals in every match we have been playing is not a coincident.

Its just a shame Riise once again has got a injury because Aurelio is not ready to fill his boots just yet, he reminds me of Riise a couple of seasons ago when his defensive ability could be questioned.
There will always be more sheep than shepherds.

“One of my favourites is Ricardo Quaresma. The day I go back to coaching I will do everything possible to sign him. Quaresma could make any club have that extra step up in quality.” - M.Lippi, August 2007

Just fuckin sign him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzSNuQHwZLE