Topic: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC

["Ninja Skrtel"]

Agree with all of this and refreshing to see a sensible post about this game.

x2

First game people. A horrible league debut for Rodgers but I don't think you can make assumptions about our entire season based on it. Let's keep some perspective. I didn't see many of these grave concerns being raised when we were cruising past Leverkusen and Gomel.

[KopThat]

It was a fairly decent first half performance, we moved the ball around well and Suarez was causing plenty of problems,
but he just couldn't finish any of his chances.
Was a sense of deja vu because we did that plenty of times under Kenny last season.

Lucas is probably only about 70% but it was good to see him back, and should make a good partnership with Allen.
With Gerrard roaming and being largely anonymous we looked a bit soft in the middle, and Allen looks great going forward,
he is lacking a little bite when we need to defend or win the ball back.

Wonder goal or not from Gera, we didn't turn our possession into goals.

As the game went on Shane Long was causing problems for our defence, and Agger was clumsy at best and being the last defender should have shown a bit more nouse.

I can't understand Dowd giving the 2nd penalty, Skrtel had eyes only for the ball was never even knew Long was there,
but in any event I couldn't see us getting anything from the game before that penalty.

Long way to go, but Clarke out did Rogers, and Joe Cole substitution was a mystery.

[Marko B]

When Rafa started his first season in 2004, I remember we had some indifferent results as well. our first 5 games:

1. Tottenham away - drew
2. Man City home - won
3. Bolton away - lost
4. WBA home - won
5. Man Utd away - lost

So, if we can give Rafa a chance, then we should offer the same treatment to BR. No?

Whilst I agree with the sentiments that's not the best example. Rafa Benitez was a world class manager coming off winning La Liga's, European trophies and a Valencia side lauded by many as one of the best tactical masterpieces in world football. Bit of a difference between that comparison and BR coming off Swansea. Of course we 'should' offer both the same but faith comes far easier to most where there is a track record that backs that faith up.

BR is certainly more a leap of faith for many given the size of this as a step up for him. It's certainly not been a good start but to be honest given the way the match panned out it's difficult to take much out of it.

The only thing for me that can be taken out of this regards the difficulty we have had since 08/09 to show drive, passion and 'rise to the challenge' where games and situations go against us. Hopefully once again building confidence in a system of playing will allow us to regain this. Holding faith in our system as being capable of bringing about a result and focussing our energies on upping our game with that in mind rather than feeling the need to try the outlandish or wilt under the pressure will hopefully return to us the ability to control and win games when the tide turns.

[KopThat]

With our early fixture list it may get worse before it gets better, so it will be a big leap of faith,
we need to see how we are travelling around the 10 to 15 games in to the season.

[Rayhem]

I've just watched the game for the 3rd time today, and a couple of things have stuck with me as areas we need to improve.

1) Pace - Seems like we are more interested in a quick pass, than actually moving the ball forward. What I mean by this, you have several quick(ish) exchanges but the net forward progress is nil. This strategy kills almost any chance of catching the defense in a transitory state.... Which basically means that you are leaving Suarez to beat 3 players.

2) Tackling - No one was slide tackling this game for LFC. NO ONE.  Seems to me, Lucas and Gerrard have become terrified of reinjury, and just shy away from anything physical. Seemed like most players were defending by taking up angles rather than trying to engage the opposition and take the ball.

3) Mental Toughness - I understand that the players were all frustrated when Agger was sent off. But it seemed like everyone just gave up, especially Gerrard.

4) Bench / Substitutes - Don't even feel like I have to get into this one.

[keyo]

Gerrard's name has come up alot, and I agree that he did not have a good game.....however, I would say that his game went downhill quickly in the second half as the game went on and we became more predictable in terms of how we were attacking....we constantly looked through the middle to suarez, as borini and downing drifted out the game.....may be gerrard's fault, maybe down to us becoming more desperate, or maybe down to a lack of options going forward as borini struggled and the kelly/downing link became a break down, possibly just down to the system still bedding in - most systems work on the basic premise of structure and organisation first, which tends to address defending, before you see the benefit in attacking

[woof]

Gera's strike was worthy of "goal of the month" and there was nothing we could have done about it. The penalties did change the game. Most of the bloggers are right to say we didn't have the mental toughness to fight back. Let's see, we lost Bellamy and Kuyt, both are natural leaders on the pitch. Stevie G is too engrossed with bashing own teammates to be exerting any influence on the pitch

[johna999]

I thought we played very well in the first half and as with last season, if we took our chances it would have been a different result.

My concern was the bench. It seems our last 4 managers have done the same, put experienced high earners on the bench that if rumours are to be believed we are trying to flog. Very little in terms of options. We lack pace, but Cole was favoured ahead of Sterling.

3 players who could pretty much do a very similar role on the pitch in hendo, adam and shelvey. Spearing would seem to be off as cover for lucas who is coming back from a serious injury wasn't there which meant no cover on the bench unless carra was expected to provide cover for the back line and DM.

[frankie biscan]

Absolute horror show!! cant see anything different from the previous season, easily one of the most disheartening performances i've ever seen from the Red men didnt look look like we wanted it all that much, some baffling decisions from the line, personally i will never get this fascination will Cole i just dont get what he brings to the table!! soon as we went down to 10 men i thought that was the time to bring on Carroll but alas Carragher was brought on instead, at 1-0 down and with 10 men was BR trying to keep the score down? heading to the Hearts game but at this moment i'm not too bothered sick of people harping on about BR and tiki taki football or whatever BS its called nowadays, regardless of style of play or whether our manager is still getting bedded in, WBA away should be a team we are more than capable of putting a couple of goals past, to me the lads didnt look motivated at all.
As much as i love them man Stevie should have been hauled off as it was one of the worst individual performance i have ever seen

[Geza]

Every year i enter the season with renewed optimism be it naive or just hopeful.

This year I really felt good though the ghosts of hicks gillette rafa and Hodgson were well behind us and even kenny whom i supported but always felt he was a more sentimental than astute appointment.

We had a new manager with fresh ideas and a desire to play attacking football with pace.

We had got rid of the log jam that was kuyt where most of our play broke down due to his lack of basic football skills and we had signed supposedly pacy players with skills. Ahh but how i was brougt down to earth.

Reina - not to blame for any of the goals
Johnson - wasted on the left if we are not going to use robinson as back up then we need to buy a left back.
Agger & skittles - not a lot to do but what they did the stuffed up.
Kelly - ordinary but then he had downing in front of him.
Lucas & allen - both average at best - lucas does not look fully fit
Gerrard - woeful - gave the ball away numerous times
Downing & borrini - buht looked good for ten minutes then that was it - downing out
Suarez - frustrating day for hin should have got on the score sheet - must be wondering what he has let himself in for.
Carra- we should be blooding coates
Carrol - looks good as a centre halfl

On a bright note it surely can't get any worse (theres me being optimistic again).

[Yorkykopite]

Every year i enter the season with renewed optimism be it naive or just hopeful.

etc etc

I don't know which team you support but I hope they lose tonight.

[DyingAtheist]

Suarez doesn't half frustrate me sometimes.
But it's early days yet, and though he may never be clinical, I'd expect him to be putting some of those away a few days down the line.
Would still rather see Borini up front in the center.

[sattapaartridge]

2 Soft penalties and the sending off killed any chance of us coming back into the game.

Bright sparks were;

Allen, it was nice to watch him play, he doesnt just sit deep, he bounces from defence to nearly getting into the final third. Short incisive passing, spreading the ball okay. Think he did play within himself a little, with the new faces he's playing with.

Lucas, nice to see him back, thought he was okay, but he will get better with games.

Downing showed more desire to get shots off.

Suarez was very good running at defenders and creating himself chances.

The negative:

The problems lay, just like last season, with us not being able to put our chances away. Even though Suarez had created himself chances, he was still put in a couple of times and missed them. Buying another CM will probably be a solution.

The bench; only had Cole as the only winger on the bench, so moving either Borini/Downing central was never an option. Buying another CM would probably be a solution, that or putting sterling/assman there.

Striker was Carroll on the bench, although I agree that Carroll should probably have come on before Cole, I can see how Brendan would have tried an attacking wide player first with a man down. Buying another CM could be another solution but another option would have been to move Suarez wide and put him upfont. With a man down though, its almost impossible to gain anything from the game regardless of what you do.

I was underwhelmed by the bench named. For me, it lacked options wide if you wanted to keep playing suarez upfront and take off Downing.

Another thing I noticed was that in the friendlies,  Lucas almost acted like a Centre Back, with Shelvey ahead of him, but against WBA, we almost had Allen sitting right beside Lucas as a Defensive midfielder. And we still conceded goals/pens. Is that something to worry about? Not at the moment.

I thought Martin Kelly and Steven Gerrard had mares and its very evident that we need another Left Back, which would probably be solved by buying another Centre Midfielder.

[Livo.85]

I was underwhelmed by the bench named. For me, it lacked options wide if you wanted to keep playing suarez upfront and take off Downing.

I thought Martin Kelly and Steven Gerrard had mares and its very evident that we need another Left Back, which would probably be solved by buying another Centre Midfielder.

???Another central midfielder?
We had 3 central midfielders on the bench, 4 if you count J.Cole who came on for Lucas. Also played there for Lille.
You said yourself the bench lacked options out wide.
This was the problem last year. When we are away from home & chasing the game there has been no winger to come on & provide penetration.

Just finished re-watching the game & although Gerrard was at fault for Agger's sending off he wasn't terrible. I still believe he is twice the player Sigurdsson was for Swansea in that role . The problems really only appeared when we were down to 10 men & had lost both Agger & Lucas. What were we like with out Agger & Lucas away from home last year? Exactly. With 1 less man the problems were only further highlighted. Carragher & Cole were not suitable replacements.
The main issue I saw was that with Kelly playing right back & Downing in front of him there was absolutely no penetration on that right hand side of the pitch. Borini only roamed to the right hand side on a couple of occasions & put in a lovely cross for Suarez (who also rarely drifted out wide but when he did threatened far more than Downing or Kelly all game).
Agger put a 50 yrd ball onto Downing who was isolated with Ridgewell & instead of taking it on his chest & attempting to beat his man he headed back to Kelly & then Clarke's well drilled West Brom team were comfortable with men behind the ball. Moments later Gerrard loses the ball, Skrtel slips & Agger gets done by the ref.
We don't necessarily need to buy a specialized left back to cover for Enrique. I saw some wonderful play from Johnson on the left & although he wasn't defensively brilliant you can get that from him on the right side too. The problem is that Kelly would be a reasonable option if the wide man ahead of him was more dangerous for the opposition. With Johnson on the right Downing is a better option as he will help facilitate the attacking threat of Johnson by playing the simple ball, covering & pressing when the play breaks down. Essentially we still need to buy a fullback who can play both sides of the pitch as Kelly is a decent option right side but not away from home with Downing.
I think that was Rodger's biggest mistake. Downing should of played left to help facilitate the threat of Johnson. Borini & Suarez should of interchanged right side with a defensively solid Kelly as cover.
We created quite a few chances despite being handicapped on the right & had 60% possession until late in the game when we faded & all was lost. With all that in mind & the prospect of Assaidi & Enrique to come into the side I think there is enough evidence to suggest that we can have a very good season yet.
Bring on Hearts & City!

[Eeyore]

Our two outstanding World Class attacking talents are Suarez and Gerrard, Suarez thrives under Óscar Tabárez's Uruguay a manager who boasts about having less possession than the opposition but winning games. Uruguay's Copa America win involved Uruguay having less possession than the opposition in every single game. Gerrard plays his best football in counter attacking teams where he gets on the ball in space and makes things happen. Neither Gerrard or Suarez are suited to a slow ponderous build up that allows teams to get behind the ball and get set.

Rodgers philosophy is about winning games by having more of the ball, penning teams in and turning the screw, what is the point of Allen and Lucas having pass completion rates in the 90's if we are going to lose the ball when it goes to Gerrard or Suarez. what is the point of turning the screw and creating pressure and then releasing that pressure when it goes to Gerrard or Suarez especially away from home. It is all very well and being young and idealistic like Rodgers but you need a degree of pragmatism and an ability to use the players you have at your disposal in the best way.

Rafa quickly realised that he was never going to be able to build a Valencia style crushing machine at Liverpool with Gerrard in the midfield because of his inability to retain possession. So what will give will Rodgers become more pragmatic and bend or will he stick to his beliefs and play a midfield of players who can all retain possession.

[Yorkykopite]

But Suarez did supremely well at Ajax Al. I imagine Ajax had more of the ball than their opponents?

[danielfonseca]

Whilst I agree with the sentiments that's not the best example. Rafa Benitez was a world class manager coming off winning La Liga's, European trophies and a Valencia side lauded by many as one of the best tactical masterpieces in world football. Bit of a difference between that comparison and BR coming off Swansea. Of course we 'should' offer both the same but faith comes far easier to most where there is a track record that backs that faith up.

BR is certainly more a leap of faith for many given the size of this as a step up for him. It's certainly not been a good start but to be honest given the way the match panned out it's difficult to take much out of it.

The only thing for me that can be taken out of this regards the difficulty we have had since 08/09 to show drive, passion and 'rise to the challenge' where games and situations go against us. Hopefully once again building confidence in a system of playing will allow us to regain this. Holding faith in our system as being capable of bringing about a result and focussing our energies on upping our game with that in mind rather than feeling the need to try the outlandish or wilt under the pressure will hopefully return to us the ability to control and win games when the tide turns.

Totally agrre Marko, People always seem to get on this "remeber rafa first few games" and compare it to the current time, when its completely chalk and cheese.
Rafa was proven finished aricle a world class name already established and natural confidence in him from us, but also if I remeber correctly we were away to spurs not WBA first game 04/05 took the lead, controlled the match defoe scored, Bolton, unluck not to draw garcia was a goal, man city came back from a goal down, UTD 2 set pieces at Old trafford, plus 2 CL qualifier games in between, so its not the same.
Also I think BR has spent £30 Million so far, not the same as Rafa who bought alonso and garcia for peanuts, new league and all that.

so its not the same, i believe in Faith but not blind faith, there has to be substance surely.

[Rohit]

But Suarez did supremely well at Ajax Al. I imagine Ajax had more of the ball than their opponents?

They did, we also had a hell of a lot more possession under rafa against the majority of the teams we face. Rafa had us play up the pitch and left his attacking 4 pretty high up the pitch and alonso and mascherano used have high possession stats aswell. So Al they can play that way, just because rafa had us transition from defense to attack very well doesn't mean we weren't a possession orientated team.

[Eeyore]

But Suarez did supremely well at Ajax Al. I imagine Ajax had more of the ball than their opponents?

He played out wide off a big central Striker and benefited from the appalling level of defending in the Eredivisie. I remember Tomkins doing a piece on his chance conversion rate  http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/03/luis-suarez-9-or-10/ and comparing it to the likes of Van Persie and Rooney. Suarez's goals came from a huge number of chances, if you are going to play a slow controlled build up then you need clinical strikers who can take half chances because it is much harder to create clear chances against a packed defence.

[Eeyore]

They did, we also had a hell of a lot more possession under rafa against the majority of the teams we face. Rafa had us play up the pitch and left his attacking 4 pretty high up the pitch and alonso and mascherano used have high possession stats aswell. So Al they can play that way, just because rafa had us transition from defense to attack very well doesn't mean we weren't a possession orientated team.

08/09 is a perfect example though we struggled at home when we were forced to break down packed defences but were absolutely lethal when we got the space to hit teams on the counter games like the 4-1 at Old Trafford or the 5-0 demolition of Villa. Once we lost Alonso's ridiculous ability to get the ball to Gerrard quickly and in space we were never the same team. In 09/10 Lucas and Mascherano totally dominated the midfield but the ball didn't get to Gerrard quickly enough and we suffered.

[Yorkykopite]

He played out wide off a big central Striker and benefited from the appalling level of defending in the Eredivisie. I remember Tomkins doing a piece on his chance conversion rate  http://tomkinstimes.com/2012/03/luis-suarez-9-or-10/ and comparing it to the likes of Van Persie and Rooney. Suarez's goals came from a huge number of chances, if you are going to play a slow controlled build up then you need clinical strikers who can take half chances because it is much harder to create clear chances against a packed defence.

Hmm. He needs loads of chances against appalling defences. So basically he's not very good?

I beg to differ of course. He's a brillaint player and a top goalscorer. Al, I don't even agree with your definition that Liverpool under Rodgers will build up in a "slow" way. Compared to years gone by we will shift the ball much more quickly. We already are doing.

[Eeyore]

Hmm. He needs loads of chances against appalling defences. So basically he's not very good?

I beg to differ of course. He's a brillaint player and a top goalscorer. Al, I don't even agree with your definition that Liverpool under Rodgers will build up in a "slow" way. Compared to years gone by we will shift the ball much more quickly. We already are doing.

Suarez is a wonderful player I just think his game suits getting the ball in space, for me his control isn't good enough to link the play in a team that looks to dominate possession. As for a slow build up the longer you have the ball the less chance you have to counter attack, that means you are going to have to open up packed defences does that suit the players we have. For me we look a much more potent attacking force when games are stretched.

 

[kkjellquist]

2) Tackling - No one was slide tackling this game for LFC. NO ONE.  Seems to me, Lucas and Gerrard have become terrified of reinjury, and just shy away from anything physical. Seemed like most players were defending by taking up angles rather than trying to engage the opposition and take the ball.

My impression is Rodgers is asking and expecting them to stay on their feet more.  Just speculating of course. 

[stockdam]

It's not really time to start to analyse after one game as things may change. However this is the first EPL game for the new manager and so.......

When Dalglish took over I could see a lift in our tempo and our game. I didn't see any of that on Saturday.
We did pass the ball well at times and had most of the possession - but that never won any games and we've been here before.

I thought we were too slow getting forward and didn't open up their defence. They were content to sit back and let us come at them and we never really had any penetration.  The fact that we were pushing up just left more space for their stronger and faster forwards to use.

The first goal seemed to take the wind out of us. We didn't really have any desire or fight and that is worrying. We should be treating every game as the most important one ever and should fight to the end.......I thought we were weak.

The first penalty was a bit soft but it also was avoidable. I think Agger knew fine well what he was doing and can have no complaint.

The 2nd penalty was strange as Skrtel just didn't see the guy coming.

The 3rd goal was schoolboy stuff. Johnson was marking his man but decided to run back onto the goal-line instead of jumping with him and putting him under pressure.

I'm not sure what anyone sees in Joe Cole and sadly we'll not know for a couple of games. My guess was he was brought on to attract a buyer.

Andy Carroll was one of the only ones who wanted to fight and show some desire.

Problem.........we lack pace up front. A team like WBA can sit back and we have nobody who can open them up. We have always been better as a counter-attacking side. Passing the ball around is fine but you'll never hurt a team passing it around in the wrong areas of the pitch.

Problem.......we lack pace and maybe strength in defence. However the defence hasn't changed since last year and I think we'll see much better displays.

Concern.........In our starting 11, only Suarez is a handful............the rest can be muscled off the ball. Andy Carroll is also a player who can win balls but it looks like he doesn't fit into the manager's plans; however I think Andy will play his way onto the team and will stay there.

We have pace in Sterling but I don't think he is ready yet to start games. He should be used as a sub. We need a couple of players with real pace and strength.......players who will run away from the defence if they get in behind.

Tika-taka is all well and good but it needs to be done in the final third and not just in midfield. I don't think we have the players with lightning speed off the mark or with pace to burst past the defenders.

I think we are in for a similar season to last year unless we can find a couple of players who will transform the team.

[Fat Scouser]

Far as I'm concerned, Suarez is the first name on the team sheet, no matter how many he misses. The thing that baffled me... for all the talk of tika-taka, his most open chances came from crosses. Okay. He wriggled his way through a couple of times, and couldn't finish the chances he made for himself. But the only real open opportunities he got were with his head.

I know it's only Rogers first game and too early to really ask this, but... is he that committed to his vision of how he wants us to play, that he refused to abandon it and bring Carroll on?

Besides, the openings in the air, the West Brom defence, particularly that Olssen fella were bullying the shit out of us. It's okay sticking to the game plan and passing through them when you've got Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and the likes. But it was pretty obvious we weren't going to be able to do that. So, I really hope Brendan has the capability to abandon plan A during a game, and make the changes needed to combat whatever we are up against.

Too early to question that yet though, and I'm sure Brendan can see far more than a mug like me. 

[MobileBayRed]

This may not be the correct thread, but none of the others seemed right either.  I dont want to talk specifically about the West Brom game, but I do have a question about our defensive line generally.  It was very obvious from our trip to America that we would push our FBs up the pitch to provide width and support to our attack.  That leaves our two CBs in a precarious position of having to defend sideline to sideline.  It also seems to put them one-on-one with the opposing CF a lot.  The game away to Gomel highlighted this formation as the #9 for them gave Skrtel fits most of the game.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a team defend with two.  I know that Lucas is supposed to provide Central cover.  I also know that BR likes the Mantra "defend from front".  Can someone more tactically astute talk about this aspect of our team?  I don't recall Barca being this unbalanced defensively.

1) Are our FBs getting too far forward?
2) Lucas is still not match fit.  Did he get pulled too far forward?  Should he have been cover for Agger on the first Penalty.
3) I know Skrtel slipped on the first pen and the second penalty was simply too much indifference on the ball, but was he out of position originally on the first pen?
4) Should our two CBs be playing more narrow?

I love Skrtel and Agger (i'm not going to start saying they are the best in the world).  The one thing that gives me hope is that they are two of our better senior players.  Can't see them both playing this poorly all season.  But I would like some help on their roles in this new formation and where we are going to get some defensive cover.

Thanks for any help.

[Believe]

First half we looked ok without creating a huge amount of 'clear cut' chances - aside from the Suarez header which he should have buried. Can't legislate for the Gera goal, nothing apart from maybe faster closing down but it was a great strike.

Second half was shabby - but the penalties and sending off did mortal damage. The Agger incident makes my blood boil - first game of last season Kieran Richardson swipes Suarez's legs away when clean through and gets a yellow, Agger barely brushes Long and it's a red!?!?! The second 'penalty' was just bizarre, never a pen in a million years, he ran into Skrtel's foot from behind, utter joke it was given. We never recovered after that and the third goal was a shambles from a defensive point of view.

We had a bad day at the office and we're better than that by a long way. What does worry me, however, is the introduction of Joe Cole - I mean, really? Ahead of Carroll, Shelvey or Henderson. Cannot understand that at all. Also - as has been pointed out - Carra really shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch ahead of Coates. He's good enough to play in the Copa against world class South American players but can't get a look in for us - again, baffling.

Onwards and upwards - sincerely hoping all the players are hurting as much as the supporters and can't wait for the City game to put a marker down.

Last thing - anyone think of someone that looks worse in a suit that Steve Clarke? 

[steveeastend]

Far as I'm concerned, Suarez is the first name on the team sheet, no matter how many he misses. The thing that baffled me... for all the talk of tika-taka, his most open chances came from crosses. Okay. He wriggled his way through a couple of times, and couldn't finish the chances he made for himself. But the only real open opportunities he got were with his head.

I know it's only Rogers first game and too early to really ask this, but... is he that committed to his vision of how he wants us to play, that he refused to abandon it and bring Carroll on?

Besides, the openings in the air, the West Brom defence, particularly that Olssen fella were bullying the shit out of us. It's okay sticking to the game plan and passing through them when you've got Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and the likes. But it was pretty obvious we weren't going to be able to do that. So, I really hope Brendan has the capability to abandon plan A during a game, and make the changes needed to combat whatever we are up against.

Too early to question that yet though, and I'm sure Brendan can see far more than a mug like me. 

100% agreed. We will need a good down to earth football mentality to gain something from our upcoming fixtures considering the early days of Rodgers and the missing of top quality within our squad which is still massiv.

[danielfonseca]

Far as I'm concerned, Suarez is the first name on the team sheet, no matter how many he misses. The thing that baffled me... for all the talk of tika-taka, his most open chances came from crosses. Okay. He wriggled his way through a couple of times, and couldn't finish the chances he made for himself. But the only real open opportunities he got were with his head.

I know it's only Rogers first game and too early to really ask this, but... is he that committed to his vision of how he wants us to play, that he refused to abandon it and bring Carroll on?

Besides, the openings in the air, the West Brom defence, particularly that Olssen fella were bullying the shit out of us. It's okay sticking to the game plan and passing through them when you've got Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and the likes. But it was pretty obvious we weren't going to be able to do that. So, I really hope Brendan has the capability to abandon plan A during a game, and make the changes needed to combat whatever we are up against.

Too early to question that yet though, and I'm sure Brendan can see far more than a mug like me.

Fats you are to hard on yourself, your points are the same as most fans without blind faith "in revolution of pass and move Alien to Liverpool ?"  ..we have always been a pass and move side we need evolution not revolution, and I am sorry if we do need revolutinizing then a living legend like king kenny, or a an emerging but established 2 time la liga winner and Uefa Coach of the year is the correct way to follow with confidence and trust, not a rookie coach with 38 games in the Pl so far... Also barcelona do not need plan B, they ahve messi and company who are just phenemenoal players, but we dont ahve taht so we need a coach who can make impact during matches through his thought process, tactics, and subs, I did not see anything of that nature on Saturday which was worrying...it is best not to judge a book by its cover, but in football it is also true taht a great coach or a palyer can be identified through their first touch...

[Rohit]

Suarez is a wonderful player I just think his game suits getting the ball in space, for me his control isn't good enough to link the play in a team that looks to dominate possession. As for a slow build up the longer you have the ball the less chance you have to counter attack, that means you are going to have to open up packed defences does that suit the players we have. For me we look a much more potent attacking force when games are stretched.

His close control is exceptional though Al, its one of his main strengths. For all the talk of slow build up its exactly the opposite of what Rogers wants. He wants us to pass the ball with pace and at one or two touch. Not ponderous build up play like we faced last season. For all the criticism of gerrard and a lack of alonso, the past two games (Gomel are shite but Bayer aren't) we saw the gerrard of old in space with lucas firing passes into feet. We saw it less against west brom though we did see it in the first half because we were too compact on the pitch and played into west broms hands. It can't be understated the lack of enrique and the lack of Johnson on the right too open the pitch up for us and give the likes of Gerrard and Suarez space in the middle of the pitch.

Manchester city came up against a similar slump in their season last year when teams figured out they just hand to defend the central areas as there was no overload or width in their game. This resulted in silva's slump aswell. Mancini made the change to bring in pizzaro to open teams up from deep and Milner and Johnson got more game time to create an overload on the flanks and the fullbacks played as wingers. Rafa's team had the same issue in 08/09 when the fullbacks weren't good enough attacking wise to cause a threat from deep as we lack against westbrom. I personally think Roger's knows the same and has probably bought assaidi for that reason, to give width but provide an overload in the wide areas like united do with the winger and fullback working in tandem.

Stewart downing sadly didn't give us this width on saturday and kelly was stopped in his track by west brom targeting him and pressing him very well. So build up isn't an issue its the lack of outlets that were the issue.

[Eeyore]

His close control is exceptional though Al, its one of his main strengths. For all the talk of slow build up its exactly the opposite of what Rogers wants. He wants us to pass the ball with pace and at one or two touch. Not ponderous build up play like we faced last season. For all the criticism of gerrard and a lack of alonso, the past two games (Gomel are shite but Bayer aren't) we saw the gerrard of old in space with lucas firing passes into feet. We saw it less against west brom though we did see it in the first half because we were too compact on the pitch and played into west broms hands. It can't be understated the lack of enrique and the lack of Johnson on the right too open the pitch up for us and give the likes of Gerrard and Suarez space in the middle of the pitch.

Manchester city came up against a similar slump in their season last year when teams figured out they just hand to defend the central areas as there was no overload or width in their game. This resulted in silva's slump aswell. Mancini made the change to bring in pizzaro to open teams up from deep and Milner and Johnson got more game time to create an overload on the flanks and the fullbacks played as wingers. Rafa's team had the same issue in 08/09 when the fullbacks weren't good enough attacking wise to cause a threat from deep as we lack against westbrom. I personally think Roger's knows the same and has probably bought assaidi for that reason, to give width but provide an overload in the wide areas like united do with the winger and fullback working in tandem.

Stewart downing sadly didn't give us this width on saturday and kelly was stopped in his track by west brom targeting him and pressing him very well. So build up isn't an issue its the lack of outlets that were the issue.

Is Suarez's close control exceptional or does he just have ridiculous levels of balance and unbelievable reflexes, for me half the time the ball looks to be getting away from him. The number of nutmegs sums it up for me how many times does a defender think he is going to get to the ball but Suarez gets their first and nicks it through the defenders legs. He looks far more effective turned and running at people where he is pretty unstoppable. That for me is why he is always dropping off looking for a pocket of space to pick the ball up. That doesn't really fit with what a central striker in a Rodgers team should be doing.

Both Gerrard and Suarez for me try and create a goal scoring opportunity everytime they get on the ball that doesn't really fit with Tiki-taka which for me personally is all about keeping possession for a different number of reasons, from resting on the ball through working the opposition to totally dominating them.

For instance could you see Gerrard or Suarez playing in the Spain team during the last Euro's when they were keeping possession because basically they had to because of their fitness levels. Or would Gerrard have looked for a killer pass and Suarez turned and looked to beat people instead of just shifting the ball to a team mate.

It's not an attack on Gerrard or Suarez for me they are truly world class attacking talents players of the like we are not going to be able to attract. For me we should be making better use of their talents instead of trying to shoehorn them into Rodgers seemingly rigid way of playing. Does Rodgers need to be a wee bit more pragmatic about how we play or does he need to stick to his guns, that for me is going to be a massive conundrum this season.

Away from home especially would we better for instance playing Carroll with the likes of Suarez, Borini and Gerrard playing off him until Rodgers shapes the squad to fit his system. Do we need evolution instead of revolution or are we better going all in with Rodgers methods.

[Fat Scouser]

We will need a good down to earth football mentality to gain something from our upcoming fixtures considering the early days of Rodgers and the missing of top quality within our squad which is still massiv.

If any one of us was managing the team in a game against Barcelona, how would you go about beating them?

Me, I'd wind them up to fuck. I'd have that big daft Geordie lump on a chain. I'd slap and kick him until he was spitting fire. I'd shave he's head and tell him to stick it right on Puyol. I'd tell them... they work hard. You work harder. They come at you. You stand firm... they do not pass. They pass the ball about, you fucking rob it and get it up to the big lump fast as you can, and follow the fucker in. You whack and harry them. You torment the life out of them and scare the shite out of them. You smile, I'll chin you. You don't get cards and do stupid things to get sent off or booked, but you beast the fuck out of them until they submit. You are LFC and you are monsters. Now get out there and scare the living shite out of them.

Sounds ridiculous... well, I suppose, we could try and play football and get battered. As daft and simplistic as that rant sounds, there's many ways to skin a cat. I hope Brendan's got more than one.

[steveeastend]

If any one of us was managing the team in a game against Barcelona, how would you go about beating them?

Me, I'd wind them up to fuck. I'd have that big daft Geordie lump on a chain. I'd slap and kick him until he was spitting fire. I'd shave he's head and tell him to stick it right on Puyol. I'd tell them... they work hard. You work harder. They come at you. You stand firm... they do not pass. They pass the ball about, you fucking rob it and get it up to the big lump fast as you can, and follow the fucker in. You whack and harry them. You torment the life out of them and scare the shite out of them. You smile, I'll chin you. You don't get cards and do stupid things to get sent off or booked, but you beast the fuck out of them until they submit. You are LFC and you are monsters. Now get out there and scare the living shite out of them.

Sounds ridiculous... well, I suppose, we could try and play football and get battered. As daft and simplistic as that rant sounds, there's many ways to skin a cat. I hope Brendan's got more than one.

Yeah, exactly, just as Croatia did at the euros against Spain. As this may still not be enough for Barca it for sure would be for the likes of Sunderland, Arsenal, ManU (home) and probably even City. Let´s hope we go for some down to earth approach and scare the shite out them, making it narrow and know when to sit back and when to go for it.

[Mr_Shane]

I would do that too. Rattle them until they are not in the right frame of mind to play their usual game.

[Fat Scouser]

Oh well, she who must be obeyed has invited people to dinner. I'll have to fuck off and pretend to be nice. I hope I don't slide tackle them like Tommy Smith if they go for the last Rochet.

[Eeyore]

If any one of us was managing the team in a game against Barcelona, how would you go about beating them?

Me, I'd wind them up to fuck. I'd have that big daft Geordie lump on a chain. I'd slap and kick him until he was spitting fire. I'd shave he's head and tell him to stick it right on Puyol. I'd tell them... they work hard. You work harder. They come at you. You stand firm... they do not pass. They pass the ball about, you fucking rob it and get it up to the big lump fast as you can, and follow the fucker in. You whack and harry them. You torment the life out of them and scare the shite out of them. You smile, I'll chin you. You don't get cards and do stupid things to get sent off or booked, but you beast the fuck out of them until they submit. You are LFC and you are monsters. Now get out there and scare the living shite out of them.

Sounds ridiculous... well, I suppose, we could try and play football and get battered. As daft and simplistic as that rant sounds, there's many ways to skin a cat. I hope Brendan's got more than one.

Got to agree Leo but heard an interview with him the other day about Carroll and a plan B and his response was that he would always look to improve Plan A before turning to plan B. You can afford to do that when you have the better players and a squad of players attuned to your style of play but what happens when you don't.

[jamieredders]

If any one of us was managing the team in a game against Barcelona, how would you go about beating them?

Me, I'd wind them up to fuck. I'd have that big daft Geordie lump on a chain. I'd slap and kick him until he was spitting fire. I'd shave he's head and tell him to stick it right on Puyol. I'd tell them... they work hard. You work harder. They come at you. You stand firm... they do not pass. They pass the ball about, you fucking rob it and get it up to the big lump fast as you can, and follow the fucker in. You whack and harry them. You torment the life out of them and scare the shite out of them. You smile, I'll chin you. You don't get cards and do stupid things to get sent off or booked, but you beast the fuck out of them until they submit. You are LFC and you are monsters. Now get out there and scare the living shite out of them.

Sounds ridiculous... well, I suppose, we could try and play football and get battered. As daft and simplistic as that rant sounds, there's many ways to skin a cat. I hope Brendan's got more than one.

Fookin awesome mate.  Love it

 

[kavah]

The biggest worry in the short medium term is depth.
The fact that Joe is anywhere  near the first XI is very depressing.
The manager needs a decent run of luck on the pitch and in the transfer window

[Wingman]

I've just watched the game for the 3rd time today, and a couple of things have stuck with me as areas we need to improve.

1) Pace - Seems like we are more interested in a quick pass, than actually moving the ball forward. What I mean by this, you have several quick(ish) exchanges but the net forward progress is nil. This strategy kills almost any chance of catching the defense in a transitory state.... Which basically means that you are leaving Suarez to beat 3 players.

2) Tackling - No one was slide tackling this game for LFC. NO ONE.  Seems to me, Lucas and Gerrard have become terrified of reinjury, and just shy away from anything physical. Seemed like most players were defending by taking up angles rather than trying to engage the opposition and take the ball.

3) Mental Toughness - I understand that the players were all frustrated when Agger was sent off. But it seemed like everyone just gave up, especially Gerrard.

4) Bench / Substitutes - Don't even feel like I have to get into this one.

3 times? Fair play, I had to force myself to watch Sky's extended highlights just the once!

With regards to "slide" tackles I really think it's something BR has instilled. Stay on your feet unless your blocking a shot or sure of knocking the ball out.

What I can't understand is how Suarez, who is absolutely technically superb, can be so wasteful I front of goal - yet his scoring return for Ajax (yeah, Kezman/Kuyt, I know) and Uruguay is more than decent. I'd really like to think we're bringing someone else in to play up top with him because I just can't see where the goals are coming from otherwise.

However, it was our first game. They scored a peach and were maybe fortunate with a few decisions. I do think we went to pieces after rhe first pen and BR really needed to either go for it or tighten it up after that.

We'll have a few more stinkers this season, no doubt, but we're a better side than what we showed on Saturday and I'm optimistic we'll improve as the players get intune with the system. Let's just hope it's sooner rather than later because our next few games are tough.

[stockdam]

1) Are our FBs getting too far forward?
2) Lucas is still not match fit.  Did he get pulled too far forward?  Should he have been cover for Agger on the first Penalty.
3) I know Skrtel slipped on the first pen and the second penalty was simply too much indifference on the ball, but was he out of position originally on the first pen?
4) Should our two CBs be playing more narrow?

In my opinion defences play best as a unit. If the CBs are too widely spaced and if the full backs have pressed on then the CBs are exposed by fast counter attacks. I don't think either of our CBs are fast and so they will struggle one-on-one. Lucas is not fast enough to cover nor are our full backs. That means they need to work together and anticipate.

As a CF I loved being one-on-one against a slowish CB. I hated it however when I beat the CB only to find a fast fullback had covered the space behind.

Torres would have a great time sitting on the shoulder just waiting for the ball to be played in behind.......once that happens then our CHs wouldn't catch him.

I don't like seeing systems being played unless they match the players. Either play the system and get the right players or else modify to suit the players.

Jamie will struggle in an open game when a young attacker runs at him with no cover tracking back.....that was happening against WBA at times.