Topic: RAWK Round Table: WBA 3 - 0 Liverpool FC

[L666KOP]

It's also the point about pressing too when the ball is lost, isn't it?

"

Yep, we need a Mascherano type player, Allen may help with this but Gerrard is not the man for the job. Shelvey would be better for the job, but he can be a little rash at times.
Barcalona make it work so well because they have no real 'strikers' as such, or diodn't play that way certainly. They have a front 6 that can all press, create, and score.
Difficult to use them as an example though, that team ethic has taken almost 20 years to create, and each manager has carried on the philosophy.

[L666KOP]

Bit unfair mate. The big lad was off and running. Carra tried to throw himself across him. He was bound to come off second best. Granted, Carra is getting on a bit now and that is bound to happen as the clock catches up. But if there's been very few better than Carra for stopping people dead in there tracks over the last few years. Sadly, Steven will start suffering the same way soon. I played until I was 40. I stopped because fellas I would have tonked years ago, just brushed me aside. Law of the jungle. The young bucks take over. But I don't think our younger lads are weaker than other teams.

I know, it just looked funny, and I doubt many would have halted Lukaku, he's a bit of a monster.

[WorldChampions]

I notice a few people saying to shift Suarez put to one of the wide positions but unlike most other things in here I disagree. He THE focal point of attack. He held it up well and out stregthed their brute CBs on more than 1 occasion. His hastling in the air even when he didn't win it meant the ball was dropping around 30 yards from their goal.

Gerrard and the two wide men should be getting on the end of it and keeping them in their own half. Plays weren't close enough to him but the relentless pressure game Brendan wants will take time.

We passed it quite well when we had it which was most of the first half. The red card knocked it out of us and heads went big time!

[shockwave_dave]

I thought we we comfortable in the game yesterday until Gera scored that wonder goal. But, if you control a game and do not score, then you always run the risk of something like that happening. And it certainly is no coincidence that it happens to us on a regular basis.

Up front we were poor. Suarez was the only player creating anything. Downing, Gerrard and Borini were fairly non-existent. Johnson offered an occasional threat on the left getting forward. Kelly offered nothing on the right.

Defensively i thought we were very poor. Skrtel out of position for the first penalty they got. Then the same player was dilly-dallying with the ball giving away their second penalty. Kelly was shocking, for me, at right back. He didn't offer anything in attack and threw in some poor defending.

People can talk about the referee all they want, but you see that type of refereeing week in - week out. Don't think Dowd could do anything different for the 2 penalties. They were both nailed on for me, as soft as they were. We'd be crying out for the exact same thing were it the other way round.

But the most galling thing for me is the attitude of some of the players to going a goal down. No fight from some of them, headless chicken stuff from the rest of them. The worst thing about this is, I don't think this is as low as it will be. We've a tough run of games coming up and I can't see us picking up a whole lot of points in those games. I knew this new managerial project would take time, but it's going to be a long few weeks I feel.

[BabuYagu]

Gerrard is ripe for moving upfront Roy, the system we play places more emphasis on intelligence and movement rather than outright pace.
I wrote in another thread mate, I think he's too old now to be chasing shadows as part of a high energy pressing midfield.

I agree with all those saying that the same midfield with Hendo/Jonjo replacing Gerrard looks more effective. In addition switching out Downing for Gerrard also adds some much needed teeth to the attack.

The one thing I have been pondering though is where Gerrard should play in the attacking 3rd. I remember Rafa saying once before that the most vital position on the pitch when pressing high up is the wide forwards. It was how I came to terms with why Kuyt was so vital to him on the right, moreso that Babel in his formation and why he never attempted blooding players in wide attacking possitions (Nemeth, Pacheco, Bruna etc). He also liked subbing them off after 60mins as they needed to be the most explosive as soon as we lost it, completely shutting down opposing full backs as an "out" for the GK, CB or DM meaning they have to play longer/risky balls and give us back the ball more usually than not.

I also remember reading something similar from Hoffenheims manager explaining why he burned through his wide players so quickly. He liked to sign them young, get 2 or 3 years from them and move them on before their perceived peak years of 26-29.

This brings me back to Gerrard. When Rafa did his "Gerrard experiment" on the right he had all the qualities that is being asked of him, young with LOTS of stamina/energy, explosive as well as being a huge threat in attack. Now, I don´t think he does. Most worrying is I still don´t see where he fits into our formation at all anymore. Now saying you should ignore attackers attributes when talking about defence means you cannot play a "system" like Rodgers wants. Fact is with a high line, our forwards are the most important defenders. If they fail at their job defensively then counter attacking teams will pick you off at will. A 32 year old Gerrard will either be a liability or will get burned out very quickly resulting in us drastically shortening whatever career he has left and probably consigning most of his time to the treatment table.

I thought some time ago that perhaps our most effective use of Gerrard may be as an impact sub. If we HAD signed Sigurdsson (or someone of his type) then Rodgers would most definately have preferred a midfield 3 of Lucas/Allen/#10 .... so I´m not sure what Rodgers had in mind for Gerrard when he was persuing Sigurdsson. The pursuit of Sahin makes me wonder if she still wants 3 passmasters in midfield. I hope Henderson gets a chance at the job too at some point as I think his atributes fit what Rodgers wants perfectly.

Speaking generally about the game, I thought Skrtel looked distracted right from kickoff. The whole back line was poor yesterday with Johnson probably being the least poor of the lot. A back 3 of Johnson, Skrtel, Kelly hasn´t been mentioned by anyone yet but I think those 3 have the strength and pace to play a high line, Carragher just doesn´t. I think Carragher will struggle at the top level regardless of how you play but Rodgers system in particular will just emphasise all his weaknesses. I do worry about Skrtel though and maybe the talk of him "having his head turned" isn´t as off the mark as I initially thought. When he headed out for a corner with nobody near him yesterday, Reina and him seemed to have a few words and even then it seemed a little out of character. For the whole game though "distracted" pretty much summed up his performance.

Positives - Lucas is nowhere near his best yet.  I can´t wait to get back the man who terrorised Chelsea and Man City midfields last season. Allen looks to be the perfect partner for him. I thought Borini looked good at times. Created our best chance for Luis and got into the 6 yard box every time Luis drifted out wide. None of our best chances fell to him, unfortunately, however he is getting into the positions to be a threat and I see him getting 15+ goals this season for sure and setting up a few also. Reina looked excellent and hopefully he´s back to his best after an average 2011/12.

[Rigden]

Many here have already voiced many of my views and opinions, but after finally being able to watch the game (already knew the score) here are some of my views:

•   First of all it has be mentioned that it was a pleasure watching the team play in a determined system, or at least try to, it must be the first time since Rafa was forced out. The seeds are there, time is required to bring it to fruition.

•   A major worry for me was the mental state of many of our senior players. Most notably with our two centre backs (who were rock solid last season) and the penalties they gave away, Stevie with many misplaced balls, and Luis still finding it hard to place the ball in the net when chances are available. Whether this attributable to it being the first day of the season, I don’t know, but hopefully they will be more mentally prepared for at least the next upcoming games.

•   The obvious lack of LB cover is something that needs to be addressed. We saw last season that Jose faded throughout the end of the season; obviously I’m hoping that it won’t reoccur, but if it should I don’t think Johnson is good enough to play week in week out as LB.   

•   As many have already mentioned it was great to watch Allen and Lucas in midfield and some have voiced, it would be interesting to see if Stevie can’t be pushed up in the front three and let one of Jonjo or Hendo take his place in midfield.

•   Also there was some very promising glimpses of chemistry between Borini and Luis that fit in Rodgers’ philosophy of a floating trio, hopefully more is to be seen throughout the season.

[johnsmithlfc]

I think that the game yesterday was clearly proof, if it were needed, that we are in desperate need of a striker and have been since Torres left.
Bringing in a potential poacher like Borini and then playing him on the left of a 'Fluid' front three may not have been the best move but wherever Borini plays is almost irrelevant (well not really but you get my point), he is not the answer to our striker woes.
We need a clinical finisher and someone who can benefit from the trickery and graft that Borini and Suarez will provide plenty of this season.
I'm glad we got Joe Allen as I think a partner/cover for Lucas was essential, but I think first and foremost (as it has been for a couple of seasons now) our priority really needs to be a striker.
We are in a tough position with Carroll where we could end up being bent over twice by that fat **** Ashley and we obviously don't want that, but if BR really doesn't see Carroll as the spearhead of our three-pronged attack, then he needs to be moved on and the funds used to purchase a player who can fill that role and can actually put away these chances that we consistently create, game after game, yet fail to tuck away.

I'm not too negative, some of the comments I've been reading around the LFC forums would have you believe that we're going to do a Newcastle and get relegated this season,  I personally don't think it's that bad but we DO need to find a player who can convert the chances, because we literally do not have one on our books right now, and that for me is hugely worrying.
Almost everywhere else we are fine (LB cover and another CB cover aside) and as long as we're scoring goals, we wont notice the lack of quality in the bench players, but if we continue to miss chances, which is really just a continuation of the last 18 months and in particular, last season, then we could well be in trouble and struggle to place 8/9/10th.

But I'm fairly confident that we will get a striker, I think Buck must know we need one and I'm fairly confident that what BR is trying to do will help this club massively in the long run.
By building a fluid squad with the type of players he wants and having a passing & percentage system in place, I think we can only move up the table and go forwards but it will not happen overnight and it will not happen if we don't get someone in who can bang in the chances.

[keyop]

What stood out for me in the first half were the same things I saw in the FC Gomel game:

1. We moved the ball very quickly and kept the ball on the deck.
2. We pressed hard when we lost the ball and didn't give them time to settle.
3. When under pressure we didn't panic, and we played our way out of trouble and kept possession.

Up to the 50 minute mark (and in particular the first 5 minutes of the second half), I thought we were great, and could already see the signs of Rodgers philosophy starting to show. The only concern for me was how we couldn't get organised when we went down to 10 men. We should have been more compact and soaked up the pressure better than we did. I'm sure it won't be the last time under Rodgers we go down to 10 men, and we will need to be better drilled in how to cope with a man disadvantage. At 2-0 down, we either needed to look at damage limitation (i.e. Shelvey or Henderson), or go for goals (i.e. Carroll or Sterling), although sadly Sterling was not an option.

However, as many have said, its a marathon, not a sprint, and I'm sure lessons will be learned.

On a final note, that second penalty was a very poor decision. Hopefully that was all our seasons bad luck in one game....

Onwards and upwards!

[Revill]

Basically, we've got a shite defence, ( third goal was appaling, five defenders, to their one forward ) players going missing too often, ( note, Mr. Gerrard ! ) living on past reputations, and a potentially class forward, who would do better, if he went for placement, ( more often ) rather than power.

[irishmike639]

I thought we we comfortable in the game yesterday until Gera scored that wonder goal. But, if you control a game and do not score, then you always run the risk of something like that happening. And it certainly is no coincidence that it happens to us on a regular basis.

I have to agree that this does happen to us more often than others it would seem suggesting that we are allowing players time and space in those areas and playing the percentages.

People can talk about the referee all they want, but you see that type of refereeing week in - week out. Don't think Dowd could do anything different for the 2 penalties. They were both nailed on for me, as soft as they were. We'd be crying out for the exact same thing were it the other way round.

Not disagreeing but it's interesting that in the 1st game last season away to Sunderland Richardson got a yellow for his foul.  I said at the time that if it hadn't been the first game of the season he would have walked.  Consistency and all that bollocks.

When he headed out for a corner with nobody near him yesterday, Reina and him seemed to have a few words and even then it seemed a little out of character. For the whole game though "distracted" pretty much summed up his performance.

Wasn't that the corner that they scored from?  Completely unnecessary and so, so costly.  In fact, if you wanted to, there's a case to be made for Skrtel being responsible for goals, 2 pens and sending off.  We're back to the Barca thing where it has been said that everyone knows you just have to attack Pique because he's not that quick.  The reason he gets away with it is because no-one can get the ball off Barca.  Until we get there then Skrtel is always going to be a worry in that system.

[royhendo]

The idea of the round table thread is to think things through in a little more depth. If all you're going to do is pop on and tell us "we've got a shite defence", don't post.

[irishmike639]

On a final note, that second penalty was a very poor decision. Hopefully that was all our seasons bad luck in one game....

How many times on opening day have we said that?  Carra/Skrtel clashing heads/Assou-Ekotto's wonder strike v Spuds, Cole sending off v Arse, Carroll disallowed goal (still don't know why?) v Sunderland.

[L666KOP]

My back has been giving me murder today mate, so I've succumbed to the bottle of Vodka that numbs the pain.
Really good post that, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow before I feel able to reply.
But I'll make sure I do, I really enjoyed that read.

[Leighc1979]

Having read a lot of posts here, I tend to agree with point about Suarez playing as main striker. I think Suarez and Borini out wide with a proper goal scorer in the middle would be deadly. We have not really strengthened our arm in that department. For me, club has to go out and add a top class striker to the ranks. It's the only position we lack and it has been evident since Torres left. Our goals to chances ratio must improve this season.

[The Las]

One thing that has been noticeable to me about the system under rogers is the make up of our defence playing a high line. We are not particularly gifted with pacey centre backs, and in the gomel away and also yesterday, one pacey striker caused us all sorts of problems, We are being undone with 30 yrd passes once we lose the ball. You need centre backs who particularly good at recovering, and this needs pace.

One player who looks Genetically out of place for me is Martin Kelly, who at right back has impressed every one with sheer endeavor and atheticism, however the guy is physcially made for a centre half.

Daniel Agger at his age, with his injury record with only two years remaining on his contract would be a worthy sacrifice for 20 million quid. If we are starting from year zero here then lets do so and start building this team with players who can grow into positions for years to come. Kelly, Coates, Skertl and maybe another young addition.

Money raised form Agger and the sale of Carroll could be very very valuable funds indeed.

Steven Gerrard will produce some fantastic moments for us this season, and will be invaluable as we make the step from mid table mediocrity onto the fringes of champions league, but we must also be looking past him toward the bigger picture.

The make up of this team is going through a metermorphism at the moment, and sometimes we will have to take beatings in the learning process.

I love rogers I think hes just what weve needed for years, and Im confident he can get us challenging.

[Gnurglan]

0-3. That really hurt. We played well I thought. Suarez should have scored two from those headers. We can't say much about their first goal. It was a great one. Perhaps we could have put a man at the edge of the box to defend against such balls but it still was a great goal. If that's what it takes to score against us, we'll be on to something.

Agger's penalty? Cheap one. It's a shit rule. I think if it happens inside the box, it should be a yellow+penalty and that's it. Outside the box and it's a red+freekick. Now we got a double punishment and it's a shit rule. Not because of this game, but because it's just wrong. I thought the first one was harsh. But when the ref then gifted them another penalty, that was just too much. Two cheap ones. Or how about that yellow for Lucas? Or the freekick where Johnson got a yellow. But when Gerrard was hacked down outside their box I can't recall a yellow card. Very poor refereeing.

Where I was, many started to scream for Carroll after the red card, but I don't blame Rodgers. I think he had two options. 4-2-3-1 could have become 4-4-1 or 4-3-2. He went with 4-4-1 first, probably with the hope of it becoming a 4-2-3. Had he gone for 4-3-2, he would have needed Johnson and Kelly to really push forward in attack. I think he made the right call. 

That said, I didn't like what I saw. We caved in and we didn't show much of a desire. Looked very much like a side that can play well as long as things are going for us. A bit of resistance and we lose. And I know it's done and all that, but when Joe Cole came on, how many would rather have seen Bellamy, Maxi or Kuyt?

But we are where we are. The worry I have is the pressure Rodgers and the team could be under very shortly. He needs some positive results to work with, or the press will have a field day. And there's a distinct lack of quality in the side. He needs to get those positive results or many players will find themselves under real pressure. And we only have a few who seem to be able to cope with it.

[Corkboy]

Daniel Agger at his age, with his injury record with only two years remaining on his contract would be a worthy sacrifice for 20 million quid. If we are starting from year zero here then lets do so and start building this team with players who can grow into positions for years to come. Kelly, Coates, Skertl and maybe another young addition.

I don't agree with that. I think Agger could be one of the more potent weapons in our arsenal.

One thing I noticed about Swansea last season was how much they used Ashley Williams to attack from the left centre half position. They would do their usual passing triangles in midfield and every few gos, some space would open up in front of Williams and he would stride into it. The wingers bombed on and holes would occasionally be found. Agger did it against WBA once that I remember and the two banks of four Brom players retreated with him, almost step for step.

Anyway, Agger is ideally suited to doing this for a couple of reasons. He isn't afraid to stride forward, he isn't afraid to take it past someone (and buy a free if necessary) but most importantly, he is well able to have a go from anywhere inside 40 yards, and every oppo player knows it. So if he is to go, it would be a rather big one to swallow.

[RedWings85]

Made a post a few weeks back about Suarez winning the golden boot with ease if he could convert 1 or 2 of the chances he gets every game. I can't believe the chances he missed yesterday. I don't know the stats but he must get more chances to score than any other striker in the league. Never known a player with the ability that he has who spurns so many opportunities to score. Not counting the chances he created himself, he had 3 superb chances in and around the 6 yard box. He should've buried all 3. There's been a lot written and said about yesterday but the story of the game for me was Suarez's missed opportunities. Wouldn't swap him for any other striker in europe but boy do i wish he would start tucking his fair share away.

Joe Allen looked class. Think we've got a real gem there.       

[B0151?]

I think Agger and Skrtel are perfect players in a Rodgers system, but getting them used to playing it out from the back will take time. The team gave it away a couple of times early on and I think this really shook their confidence to an extent. They have had a pre-season playing like it but there is a big difference between that and the intensity of a Premier League game, especially on opening day away from home. Honestly feel like we would have gotten something out of the game without the sending off - but that's the Premier League. Suarez puts his first chance away and he probably gets a hat-trick. Still positive.

[didi shamone]

We were the better team up to the absolute peach they scored. The deserved sending off of Agger killed the game so it's hard to read too much into what happened after that. Reminded me of the Spurs game last year.

On the other hand I've often stated that I didn't buy into last seasons theme that we didn't score goals due to bad luck, Carroll and the post. Last season we finished where we deserved because we couldn't score goals. We've sold or let go three goal scorers in Maxi, Dirk and Bellamy. We've signed one unproven goal scorer in Borini. Also our new winger is an unknown quantity. I feel we'll struggle to score again this year. I really can't see the goals flowing. Allen was a plus for me yesterday. Looks a good little player but he's no goal scorer. Lucas will never be a goal scorer. Downing, Gerrard and to a slightly lesser extent Borini had stinkers. Suarez is a marvellous player but not a great finisher. He needs to be surrounded by attack minded players that can finish well and unless Borini really sparks into life thats not going to happen.

In summary I can see us being a lot like last year. We'll play well but struggle to put teams to the sword unless some of the new lads do fantastically well.
City won't get the walkover people are predicting but they will be more clinical.

[leivapool]

I was at the V festival yesterday.  My manager was at the game as he is a Baggies season ticket holder.  He kindly sent me a text commentary to interrupt my delight at seeing Madness, Tinie Tempah et al!!!  Texts such as 'Yam gettin battered' (sic) continued for most of the afternoon, and gems such as 'you're just a shit Swansea'.  I was obviously delighted

So I gets home, reads the post match thread and thought we'd mutated in to Stafford Rangers the over-reaction in there.

So now I've finally watched this apolcalypse of a match I think it's fair to see that we were OK!  Obviously the score was less than desired, but we have new players, a new manager and a whole new system,  It will take time, we will have our arses handed to us a few times, but so long as the end goal is reached, it's just a small hurdle eh!

I saw many positives in the first 55 or so mins.  Lucas and Allen have the making of a very balanced partnership, they seem to communicate so one went and one stayed which was nice to see.  iI was also good to see Lucas having a tactically and positionally aware energetic partner.  I see good things for those two.  It was also apparant how Lucas regularly dropped in to cover the CB's forward excursions, it's encouraging to see the players adapting to this part of Rodgers system.  On a personal note, I don't think Lucas was as rusty as others have said, got caught in possession once, but so did Allen late on.  68 Mins of good workout will push him on and I was pleased he was taken off  when he was.

Lucas's departure did however unbalance the team somewhat and West Brom certainly started to come in to the game significantly more.  Some of our defending was comical, no-one seemed to know who the hell they were marking.  As for Carragher.  How long is this going to go on?  19 year old Lukaku made  a mug of him too many times, it was embarrassing for everyone. 

 Joe Cole's  presence is the only real concern for me.  Not Joe himself, although that is obviously a big worry, more the reasons he was picked.  He's done nothing in either pre-season or the Gomel games to earn a place in the team above Shelvey or Henderson, yet gets the nod over them both.  it smacks of favouritism to me, not the playing of players based on merit, and it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.  The fact that he was panting after 4 minutes like my Nan after she has run a bath is also truly horrifying to see.

Gerrard had a bad day, Borini will be great but had a mixed day and Suarez was awesome and woeful all at the same time but that doesn't worry me, but the absence of Stewart Downing does.  Where was he?

[The Las]

To be honest Suarez's record with his national side 28 goals in (54) and Ajax 81 goals from (110) would suggest the boy can find the net. As soon as he gets a couple and the chances keep coming the law of averages based on his previous stats would suggest he will score a few. Had he bagged two yesterday Rogers would have been a genius for putting him through the middle, on another day he would have put them away.

SO based on one game im not about to say Suarez should be playing on the left or right side of a three. Id be more inclined to ask where does Borini actually fit in??

[Rohit]

To be honest Suarez's record with his national side 28 goals in (54) and Ajax 81 goals from (110) would suggest the boy can find the net. As soon as he gets a couple and the chances keep coming the law of averages based on his previous stats would suggest he will score a few. Had he bagged two yesterday Rogers would have been a genius for putting him through the middle, on another day he would have put them away.

SO based on one game im not about to say Suarez should be playing on the left or right side of a three. Id be more inclined to ask where does Borini actually fit in??

Those two sides played with lots of width that opened the pitch up for him, something we didn't do yesterday but did well in the last two games. Lack of Johnson on the right and no enrique made the pitch too compact and it probably resulted in the midfield area of the pitch becoming to congested. It also meant gerrard had a lack of space to operate as mulumbu and the argentine lad I can't remember were everywhere and were great positionally and tactically.

Thing it doesn't matter where suarez's perceived position on the pitch is he plays where he wants. Yesterday played as a secondary striker of borini and has done since he's come back. Even if Borini starts of the left he ends practically playing center forward anyway with the fullback practically playing a winger. It's why Jose Enrique made that comment how he is now playing more with the forwards than with the defenders. He's being asked to play basically as a winger. On the opposite we have downing who is meant to hold his shape and make the pitch big but he didn't and he just had one of his days were he went into his shell. There was no glen Johnson on that side of the pitch to make up for his short comings either.

This bring me on to my next train of the thought, the purchase of assaidi and link with various other wide players. Rogers obviously wants a front 4 where all 4 players are capable of beating a man one on ones and he also wants a players that hold their width in the wide forward areas. I know people don't like the barca reference but even lionel messi is flanked by two players that have to tactically be aware and hold width and make the pitch big. Crosses aren't whats associated with a Rogers winger but winning one on ones, Man utd do this to great affect and just tear teams apart by creating one on ones and make the pitch big. I think we need these sort of players in order force more chances and better chances. Luis himself needs space opened up for him, as its all well and good him beat 4 men but if he's off balance the chance isn't going to be converted.

I myself not adverse by an actual center forward because the system will most likely stay the same and Suarez's position itself won't even really change. He spends practically as much time wide as he does centrally anyway.

Off the ball movement is key though from those wide men and knowing when to make runs into the inside channels, something downing doesn't do let alone take on his man. Its something borini has done quite well even if his touch was off yesterday and he couldn't influence the game how much he'd like.

But as a whole we need to make our attack less Luis depended but we also need to make it suit his game by creating space for him to cause havoc and run at players when he can. Btw that header wasn't a clear chance it was too high, look at yorkykopites post its bang on the money as he usually is anyway.

[the_red_pill]

The difference between us and Brom was that that we were visibly off-pace. By the 50th minute, we were huffing and puffing.
We were/are not prepared yet.

That's the biggest factor in all this for me. Had we been fitter and sharper, we could've scored earlier and dominated more. Our red cards- harsh as they may be, were the result of exhaustion- not being alert enough, not being quick/fast enough. Look at it again, by the 40th minute, some of us were already showing signs of exhaustion. Everyone of us, except Allen and Suarez were exhausted and if you look at it again, Brom were just a bit more alert, quicker to react, faster and had more endurance than us. We even started in a slump and it took us 3-4 minutes to finally pick up on the pace of the game, which is when we started to get more balltime and started to get a hold on the game.

[Mr_Shane]

 Rodgers game is all about having possession. We sent men up front, but gave the ball away too cheaply. I dont think thats what Rodgers intended and I think it will eventally be resolved, but when is the issue

[Mutton Geoff]

To be fair with what we had that was the best selection of players we had with one or two caveats, i am more and more unhappy with Kelly on the right not his fault i think he is a CB in the wrong position like Carra was. I actually think Flanagan gives us more going forward than Kelly, and i feel Glen on the left is a waste. My other one point about selection or formation really is i would like Gerrard further forward and on the right Borini/Carroll in the middle and Luis on the left. Stevie is better the further forward we can get him in my view.

That said up to a screamer from Gera we were bossing the game really with Allen fitting in brilliantly, but the second half the wheels fell off, yes we could blame dowd but that would be missing the point, they were cutting through us like a knife through butter and this led to Agger's red card, the second pen to me was correct as far as the rules go and although Dowd was very partial with his decisions, it seems it was a massive brainfart by Skrtel that led to the problem.

The third goal was on the cards in fact we were lucky to get away with three given the way we gave up after the second, and this leads to my major problem yesterday we gave up it seemed, Liverpool teams do not give up or never have this really worried me and also no offence to Brendan but his subs were very suspect, bringing on Cole WHY? We needed Andy on sooner he played like he cared and might have geed up the others on the pitch.

all in all first half 8-10 second half 4-10  Allen standout M of the M for me, and god knows we need a clinical finisher or someone to become one.

[The G in Gerrard]

I was disappointed with the bench. Not sure how much difference there is in having Adam, Henderson, Shelvey and Cole on there.

[jamieredders]

Luis lad.  Those chances have to be put away.

This thread, and the whole tone of the weekend would have been different if they had gone in.

Not too much wrong with anything that I saw.  Freak goal and horrendous refereeing decisions cost us dear.  But so did Luis.

[the 92A]

I'm totally relaxed after that, we did alright in the first half, it was just a matter of being patient. Geras goal was spectacular  but we would still have won it until we lost Agger, Spurs away last year nothing to panic about my only worry is the way our heads went down after the second penalty. Our defence was mentally and physically overun, maybe a hang up from last season but that mental fragility needs adressing. Young Allen will serve us well, no need to panic, I'm still looking forward to the season. Think Geoff makes some good points above.

[Gnurglan]

Luis lad.  Those chances have to be put away.

This thread, and the whole tone of the weekend would have been different if they had gone in.

Not too much wrong with anything that I saw.  Freak goal and horrendous refereeing decisions cost us dear.  But so did Luis.

Yes, Suarez missed and he should have scored. But it's the same old story. We're so dependent on Suarez in attack.

[SirCliveWolfe]

Basically, we've got a shite defence, ( third goal was appaling, five defenders, to their one forward ) players going missing too often, ( note, Mr. Gerrard ! ) living on past reputations, and a potentially class forward, who would do better, if he went for placement, ( more often ) rather than power.

So how many manc fans have infiltrated here?...

[walshys_mullet]

People will hate this but, Kenny was sacked and some fans were disgruntled over our performances last year and for me, i didnt see anything better than what we were producing under Kenny.

yeah there was lots of possesion first half, but lets be honest we wre hardly cutting through their backline. Last year at the same gaff we beat them 2-0 and had about 26 attempts and hit the woodwork twice.

I just dont see what there is to be excited about? Can someone please explain to me? This is in no way having a go at Rogers, but we are trying to implement a new style with players that dont fit it - plain as day. As a result you've got Borini out wide - the lad never played that role at Roma, so why is he wide left? Why is Suarez in the middle? Why was carra on the bench? Why was Cole on the bench?

You see i just dont understand. Whats done is done now but we seem to have even more players than last year that are now surplus to requirements, with a little over two weeks left until we have to go six months with the paltry squad we have.

Allen was a positive, but you know what i just dont see where we are headed except downwards. Borini should be coming from the bench not thrown straight in. We still have no striker. We've managed to alienate or pee off multiple players whilst distracting others with possible transfers (Skrtl, agger).

Im afraid i saw nothing to suggest we are moving in the right direction. Im sorry but i dont see it and relaxed im not, im absoloutely dreading were we might be in a few months time and who knows maybe another manager readying to bite the dust from relentless pressure.

[The G in Gerrard]

People will hate this but, Kenny was sacked and some fans were disgruntled over our performances last year and for me, i didnt see anything better than what we were producing under Kenny.

Im afraid i saw nothing to suggest we are moving in the right direction. Im sorry but i dont see it and relaxed im not, im absoloutely dreading were we might be in a few months time and who knows maybe another manager readying to bite the dust from relentless pressure.

After one league game? 

[walshys_mullet]

After one league game? 

mate i dont care if its -1.

Rogers is on a hiding to nothing if he isnt allowed to bring in the players he wants or needs, it makes no difference.

You know what are you expecting? Are you seriously expecting rogers to turn these players Barca like in a few seasons? To do that would require a major culling of the entire squad. Except it isnt that easy as you well know.

We will probably spend the next two weeks trying to flog players we dont want and well get paltry sums for them in desperation. Well be left with an even more threadbare squad.

[The G in Gerrard]

mate i dont care if its -1.

Rogers is on a hiding to nothing if he isnt allowed to bring in the players he wants or needs, it makes no difference.

You know what are you expecting? Are you seriously expecting rogers to turn these players Barca like in a few seasons? To do that would require a major culling of the entire squad. Except it isnt that easy as you well know.

We will probably spend the next two weeks trying to flog players we dont want and well get paltry sums for them in desperation. Well be left with an even more threadbare squad.

You can't be expecting an improvement on last season's performances after one game.

It is going to be very difficult for Rodgers but we couldn't give away the likes of Downing, Cole and to an Spearing and Adam even if thats what we wanted. We cant just go out and spend more money until such players go. I dont blame Rodgers for that.

[walshys_mullet]

You can't be expecting an improvement on last season's performances after one game.

It is going to be very difficult for Rodgers but we couldn't give away the likes of Downing, Cole and to an Spearing and Adam even if thats what we wanted. We cant just go out and spend more money until such players go. I dont blame Rodgers for that.

Then we are stuck then arnt we? Would have been better giving kenny another year to see what he could do. If your gonna rip it all up and start again, make sure you can back the manager to start to make swift changes.

[Pistolero]

Basically, we've got a shite defence, ( third goal was appaling, five defenders, to their one forward ) players going missing too often, ( note, Mr. Gerrard ! ) living on past reputations, and a potentially class forward, who would do better, if he went for placement, ( more often ) rather than power.

East Lancs >>>>>

[Black Bull Nova]

I think that one thing is true after saturday, we have finally come to terms with our place in the world and our expectations of it. Anytime a new manager is appointed there is a hope that some form of revolution and blinding light resurrection will occur that will place us where we believe we should truly be. 3 years ago we were competing with United for the Title, I don't think there is now anyone left who believes that we will be competing with City/United and Chelsea this year and that we have moved into a new group of teams who hope to achieve 4th place. Even then I would think that a good few see the combined challenge of Arsenal/Spurs and Newcastle as too much for that to be achieved either. Where does that leave us then? Yes, still capable of fourth but dependent upon there not being four strong teams above us, more realistically in that group of teams that hover around the Europa League qualification places and hope for a cup win.

Will it improve? Only faith suggests it will, we have no more money, divine right or evidence to back up the belief that we can now do something that would be regarded as overachievement. Arsenal, who can lure more or less any player they choose to (they obstinately stick to prudence) away from us (probably Spurs as well) will have to fail or there will have to be a coming together of the players and the managers methods that drives us forward and fast.

That's why saturday was psychologically damaging, we have quickly and sharply had our faith battered, it took longer with Kenny. It can be restored but the overall feeling at this moment in time is of a new reality, not one that did not exist but one which has now been recognised.
 

[na hÉireann Dearg]

Many here have already voiced many of my views and opinions, but after finally being able to watch the game (already knew the score) here are some of my views:

•   First of all it has be mentioned that it was a pleasure watching the team play in a determined system, or at least try to, it must be the first time since Rafa was forced out. The seeds are there, time is required to bring it to fruition.

•   A major worry for me was the mental state of many of our senior players. Most notably with our two centre backs (who were rock solid last season) and the penalties they gave away, Stevie with many misplaced balls, and Luis still finding it hard to place the ball in the net when chances are available. Whether this attributable to it being the first day of the season, I don’t know, but hopefully they will be more mentally prepared for at least the next upcoming games.

•   The obvious lack of LB cover is something that needs to be addressed. We saw last season that Jose faded throughout the end of the season; obviously I’m hoping that it won’t reoccur, but if it should I don’t think Johnson is good enough to play week in week out as LB.   

•   As many have already mentioned it was great to watch Allen and Lucas in midfield and some have voiced, it would be interesting to see if Stevie can’t be pushed up in the front three and let one of Jonjo or Hendo take his place in midfield.

•   Also there was some very promising glimpses of chemistry between Borini and Luis that fit in Rodgers’ philosophy of a floating trio, hopefully more is to be seen throughout the season.

Agree with all of this and refreshing to see a sensible post about this game.

[Red Sox]

People will hate this but, Kenny was sacked and some fans were disgruntled over our performances last year and for me, i didnt see anything better than what we were producing under Kenny.

yeah there was lots of possesion first half, but lets be honest we wre hardly cutting through their backline. Last year at the same gaff we beat them 2-0 and had about 26 attempts and hit the woodwork twice.

I just dont see what there is to be excited about? Can someone please explain to me? This is in no way having a go at Rogers, but we are trying to implement a new style with players that dont fit it - plain as day. As a result you've got Borini out wide - the lad never played that role at Roma, so why is he wide left? Why is Suarez in the middle? Why was carra on the bench? Why was Cole on the bench?

You see i just dont understand. Whats done is done now but we seem to have even more players than last year that are now surplus to requirements, with a little over two weeks left until we have to go six months with the paltry squad we have.

Allen was a positive, but you know what i just dont see where we are headed except downwards. Borini should be coming from the bench not thrown straight in. We still have no striker. We've managed to alienate or pee off multiple players whilst distracting others with possible transfers (Skrtl, agger).

Im afraid i saw nothing to suggest we are moving in the right direction. Im sorry but i dont see it and relaxed im not, im absoloutely dreading were we might be in a few months time and who knows maybe another manager readying to bite the dust from relentless pressure.

agree totally