Author Topic: Players signed by Rafael Benitez  (Read 164797 times)

Offline reldinho

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #200 on: November 2, 2009, 05:59:09 pm »
I'm not Rafa basher but the posts on here are getting as hysterical in his defence as they are to attack him.

He's spent a lot of money on a lot of players.  Quoting players who arrived under his watch and left for a decent fee isn't a good thing.  A good thing would be to have bought players that were good enough to have improved the team AND stayed.

I understand the constraints we're playing under, but we could have spent the money more wisely, and on less players.

How do you think that could've happened? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  Some players are not available at certain times. 2 summers ago we wouldn't have bought Aquilani because he simply wouldn't have been available. 2 seasons before we signed Torres he wouldn't have been available either so assuming we could've done it 'more wisely' as you put it are we going to magically sign players that are not for sale? No manager can do that........unless they have a big fat cheque book like Real and Man City have shown this summer.

He's a challenge for you or anyone else that says we could've signed fewer and better players, go through the original poster's list and say which players you would've kept (realistically, not using the likes of Crouch who wanted to leave) and which players you would've bought, that were available at the time. I'm guessing you would struggle to do that.

Offline jamiehill

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
  • MacIntyre, Treadmore and Davitt
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #201 on: November 2, 2009, 06:18:48 pm »
The fact that you can not guess?
It took him four years in England (you know, this is a time for everyone respected coach?) That it would win the match in Manchester!
And in the end it is this (you know what the resource potential in the hands of his!) Resources in England, he won almost nothing

Spit it out Lad!!!??!
The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all. They showed their unconditional support at half-time when they were losing 3-0 and still they didn't stop singing." Diego Maradona

Offline SadRed

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,219
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #202 on: November 2, 2009, 06:26:33 pm »
I am sorry to say, but some people are absolute daft nutters. Thats what they are. They just go fucking round and round makingg random illogical points because their brains are fucking messed up. Any half decent lad can see the progress we have made, its the same fuckin team that beat the shit out of madrid and united, how on earth does this whole debate about his signings start again? Really.

And this season, we have been unlucky, with 10 injuries, tell me one squad in the premier league that will definitely cope with it. Despite that we played very well against Fulham, and luck deserted us when Kuyt made the mistake. This should not even be discussed, and people brininging this debate about Benitez signings are shit etc are egoistical fucking t*wats who cannot believe whom they thought is a shit manager suddenly do so well and now they have the opportunity to say they were right. Fuck off you idiots, you dont deserve to be called fans, because anyone who is a fan knows how much the team has progressed. What you are is a bunch of self obssessed whoppers, and some of them sky washed idiots.

Offline Paul JH

  • Elmer Fudd. I'm a witch! A WITCH!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,327
  • "Don't do drugs..."
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #203 on: November 2, 2009, 06:29:06 pm »
A good thing would be to have bought players that were good enough to have improved the team AND stayed.

Eh? What like Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Benayoun, Agger?
Sarcastic Net Pest and Sanctimonious Arse.

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,673
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #204 on: November 2, 2009, 06:32:16 pm »
Eh? What like Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Benayoun, Agger?
Ah, but these are the ones who are going to lead the exodus, haven't you read the press?

Except maybe Pepe, who doesn't know what he's talking about saying that he'll stay to build "something special".
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Online JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,946
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #205 on: November 2, 2009, 06:32:26 pm »
I am sorry to say, but some people are absolute daft nutters. Thats what they are. They just go fucking round and round makingg random illogical points because their brains are fucking messed up. Any half decent lad can see the progress we have made, its the same fuckin team that beat the shit out of madrid and united, how on earth does this whole debate about his signings start again? Really.

And this season, we have been unlucky, with 10 injuries, tell me one squad in the premier league that will definitely cope with it. Despite that we played very well against Fulham, and luck deserted us when Kuyt made the mistake. This should not even be discussed, and people brininging this debate about Benitez signings are shit etc are egoistical fucking t*wats who cannot believe whom they thought is a shit manager suddenly do so well and now they have the opportunity to say they were right. Fuck off you idiots, you dont deserve to be called fans, because anyone who is a fan knows how much the team has progressed. What you are is a bunch of self obssessed whoppers, and some of them sky washed idiots.

Fucking bang on. Close the thread

Offline wideawakewesley

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 729
  • We all bleed red, so take the hint!
    • Weekly Geekly
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #206 on: November 2, 2009, 06:36:12 pm »
Eh? What like Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Benayoun, Agger?

Don't forget Kuyt, Skrtel and Aurellio

Offline JP-65

  • FA/UEFA/FIFA are not fit for purpose
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,772
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #207 on: November 2, 2009, 06:43:07 pm »
The thing is this.
I attempted to discuss the points you raised as quite a few have.
You chose to ignore that in favour of making an equally baseless totally unrelated point.

So if you expect a reasoned response and to be treated with respect....have the decency to to respond correctly.
Saying the same thing over and over again without taking account of what is said to you will only result in one thing.

You continue to do it....ergo.........you don't half talk some shite!

And he's being doing it from his first post to now, and it's the same old tired cliches.

Offline Red number seven

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,289
  • Today's newspaper, tomorrow's chip paper
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #208 on: November 2, 2009, 06:44:20 pm »
Great post. Rebuilding a squad almost from scratch to compete for the League and Champions League on 15-16 million/yr is virtually impossible. It would be miraculous if Rafa had won the league.

Would also point out that 17 plus change is the most we will pay for Aquilani and Johnson, whereas 30 is the least we will receive for Xabi, so this summer's trading is potentially even better (worse?) than break even. How anyone has Rafa down as expected to win the title under the financial and management pressures he has to deal with even without most of his to0p players to injury is beyond me.

"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline CorKopite

  • a tool who can't spell
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,541
  • The house that Shanks built.
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #209 on: November 2, 2009, 06:52:19 pm »
Great post BHB.
Bill Shankly-"I know this is a sad occasion but I think that Dixie would be amazed that even in death he could draw a bigger crowd than Everton can on a Saturday afternoon"

Mitch Hedberg-"Dogs are forever in the push up position"

Offline Varmenni

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #210 on: November 2, 2009, 06:52:52 pm »
Thought it might be interresting to see what happened to the squad of 2003/04.  Info mostly from wikipedia and should be taken with a grain of salt...

Name                                        Games in 03/04
Sami Hyypia         51 Games
Played five more season under RB.  Lost his place in the starting 11 but offered quality whenever called upon.  Left for Leverkusen on a free transfer in the summer of 2009 when he wasn't guaranteed regular playing time, rejecting an offer for a player/coach contract.
Harry Kewell        49 Games
After making 49 of his 139 appearances for the club in his first season, he spend most of the remaining 4 of his contract injured, suffering amongst other from a torn abductor, torn groin muscle, sports hernia and septic arthritis.  At the end of his contract the club wasn't ready to offer him an acceptable extension so he decided to leave for pasture greener.  Moved to Galatasaray where he has played some 36 games scoring 13 goals.  Also suffered from inguinal hernia. 
Emile Heskey        47 Games
Sold before RB arrived.
Steven Gerrard      47 Games
Still at the club.
Danny Murphy        42 Games
Struggled at Charlton and Tottenham before establishing himself at Fulham.
Igor Biscan           39 Games
After playing out the last year of his contract under RB, the club decided not to renew his contract.  Moved to Panathinaikos in Greece where he played unsuccessfully for two years.  After again failing to get his contract renewed he spent six months out of the game before moving back to Dynamo Zagreb.
Michael Owen        38 Games
Real Madrid and got injured.  Moved to Newcastle and got injured, watched them get relegated and left on a free to the Mancs.
Jerzy Dudek           38 Games
Didn't fancy playing second fiddle to Spain's #2 goalkeeper, so he moved to Madrid where he would at least be paid more and could better work his tan.  Has managed to turn out for them eight times in two seasons.
John Arne Riise      35 Games
Moved to Rome in 2008.
Dietmar Hamann      35 Games
Moved to City in 2006 where he made 54 appearances in three seasons.  Currently without a club.
El Hadji Diouf      33 Games
Steve Finnan        31 Games
After losing his place in the team to Alvaro Arbeloa he moved to Espanyol in the summer of 2008.  Spent most of his first year at the club out injured.  Contract terminated by mutual consent in July 2009 after making 4 appearances for the club.  Signed up for a year with Portsmouth, but has only played one game due to injury.
Jamie Carragher      29 Games
Still at the club.
Stephane Henchoz    27 Games
Made 43 appearances in total for Celtic, Wigan and Blackburn in the three years after he left the club.
Vladimir Smicer      25 Games
Has played 48 games for Bordeaux and Slavia Prague after leaving the club in 2005. Continues to struggle with injuries.
Anthony Le Tallec   23 Games
After spending three years trying to ship him out he finally moved to Le Mans in 2008.
Florent S.-Pongolle   23 Games
Moved to Recreativo where he played well enough to earn him a move to Atletico Madrid.  At AM he has played 32 games scoring 5 goals (four of them in two of his first five games).  Currently backup for Aguero/Forlan/Max
Bruno Cheyrou        19 Games
Currently the "Next Zidane" finds himself playing as a defensive midfielder for Rennes.
Milan Baros           18 Games
After denting the European Cup trophy he found himself out of favour.  Between 2005 and 2008 he played for Aston Villa, Lyon and Portsmouth without much success.  Finally found his feet playing last season for  Galatasaray.
Chris Kirkland        12 Games
Continues to impress for Wigan when not out injured.
Djimi Traore        11 Games
Spent half a season at Charlton, before they sold him to Portsmouth at a loss of around million.  Struggled to get a game there and was loaned to Rennes and Birmingham.  Moved to AS Monaco last summer.
Salif Diao           7  Games
In his five years at the club he managed to play 37 games for the club and a total of 29 games in loan spells at Birmingham, Portsmouth and Stoke.  Currently at Stoke where he continues to play intermittently.
Jon Otsemobor        5  Games
After leaving the club he has played for Rotherham and Crewe.  Currently playing for Norwich in League one.
John Welsh           2  Games
Moved to Hull in a deal that saw Paul Anderson going the other way.  Played 30 games in three years at Hull before being released after the club gained promotion to the EPL.  Currently at Tranmere Rovers
Patrice Luzi        1  Games
After leaving the club he spent two years playing for little known clubs in Belgium.  Currently a backup at Rennes.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 07:03:19 pm by Varmenni »

Offline Red number seven

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,289
  • Today's newspaper, tomorrow's chip paper
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #211 on: November 2, 2009, 07:01:20 pm »
I don't go along with this "net spend" stuff.

Lets say for example Rafa sold Bellamy for 8 mill and bought Dossena for 8 mill..net spend nil.

You can't excuse bad signings by saying look he only spent 16mill net spend per season or whatever.

I sold me car for 10k and bought another for 10.5k and it turned out to be a shed...still it only cost me £500...well thats OK then
What do you mean "I don't go along with this 'net spend' stuff." What a ridiculous comment.

You're talking as though it's some bizarre accounting contraption Benitez and his acolytes have dreamed up to justify perceived failure. It is an integral number and far, far more important than the gross spend. For example, if you had 12 million to spend on a striker and an offer for 8 for Bellamy, would you swap Bellamy plus 12 million for Torres, or is that an irrelevant question because it involves this bizarre "net spend" notion. That is what Rafa is dealing with and why net spend is relevant. Yes he has signed some mediocrity, but so have all of them.

What you have to ask of a manager are three things for me.

1. Given the amount of money available and the time spent, has the squad improved satisfactorily. Has there been sufficient added value for the cash invested. This is where "net spend" comes in.

2. Has the manager added further value to the squad in terms of individual improvement in existing players abilities/confidence etc

3. Does he put it all together to deliver a coherent finished product that achieves as much as could eb expected based on the squad he inherited, the time he's had to improve it and the amount of money he's had to spend, net.

Given a club in relative disarray when inherited, a net spend of only 15 Mill per season and an achievement record of a European Cup, top 4 finishes every year since the first, a LFC record points haul and a side that now includes Reina, Johnson, Agger, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres - all amongst the best in their position in the world, plus Aquilani who I believe should fall into that category, plus players of the quality of Benayoun, Kuyt, Aurelio, Lucas (yes Lucas) and kids like Ngog and Insua already around the first team, and others like Pacheco hopefully not to far behind, I think Rafa deserves a little more respect than " I don't buy into all this newfangled net spend nonsense."
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline BobbyDavro

  • can't skate
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,628
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #212 on: November 2, 2009, 07:09:52 pm »
Eh? What like Mascherano, Torres, Reina, Benayoun, Agger?

See, it's this type of closed mind thinking that leads to these threads going for dozens of pages and no-one learning a thing.
My point was you can't use net spend as an argument when a lot of the players sold were ones he's bought.
A quick count of the first BHB post is that Rafa has sold 28 players that he bought. 
That is too many in 5 years, no matter what the constraints - in fact, especially because of the constraints.  That's a load of signing on fees, and likely a few severance fees for leaving when they didn't mind staying.

Quoting 5 good players out of that massive list that are here and have improved the team if anything strengthens the arguments against rather than for.

Offline Paul JH

  • Elmer Fudd. I'm a witch! A WITCH!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,327
  • "Don't do drugs..."
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #213 on: November 2, 2009, 07:12:59 pm »
See, it's this type of closed mind thinking that leads to these threads going for dozens of pages and no-one learning a thing.

Closed mind thinking? You asked where are the players who stayed and improved the team, I named 5 current ones. How is that 'closed mind thinking'?
If you are going to suggest every player Rafa signed that DID improve the team (such as Alonso, Garcia, Arbeloa) should still be here, that's closed mind thinking right there.

Players move on. That's football. Rafa has signed MANY players, not just the ones I said, that have improved us over the last few years.
Sarcastic Net Pest and Sanctimonious Arse.

Offline SadRed

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,219
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #214 on: November 2, 2009, 07:25:03 pm »
See, it's this type of closed mind thinking that leads to these threads going for dozens of pages and no-one learning a thing.
My point was you can't use net spend as an argument when a lot of the players sold were ones he's bought.
A quick count of the first BHB post is that Rafa has sold 28 players that he bought. 
That is too many in 5 years, no matter what the constraints - in fact, especially because of the constraints.  That's a load of signing on fees, and likely a few severance fees for leaving when they didn't mind staying.

Quoting 5 good players out of that massive list that are here and have improved the team if anything strengthens the arguments against rather than for.

That is bullshit.

You need to open your brains. Imagine this - You have a million pound to invest in a house. You will be given 1 million every 1 year and you have 5 years to find a better house than your opponent, who already has a mansion, can spend 10 million in one stretch.

From that 1 million, you buy one house. Its very poor as compared to your opponent. But next year its value is high because you were smart to invest in a good house which was undervalued. Next year, you sell it so that you have now 2 million + 1million you get from your transfer funds, you buy a 3 million house. Again still less than your opponent, but you chose another clever one so that when you sell you get 10 million. Add one more million, spend 11 on a new house. Do that for 5 years, and you are very close to being in a mansion like your opponent, maybe worth 70 million. Whats the gross spending? It includes all the bloody money you recouped from clever buys. Now some not so clever pundits say oh thats too much money, forgetting the NET spend is what matters. Some even dafter people say oh why did you change 10 houses in 5 years, why not build one good one.  Others say oh why dont you spend 5 million of your net spend on one big house at the start and build on that, not realizing the fuckin 5 million was not available was it?

But still, you are very close. The judge is about to come, an earth quake strikes, some pillars damage and collapse. Daft peopel say, oh this is shit, we gave you 5 million, and you gave us this shit house which stands only on two pillars. The smart ones know, its just an earth quake, once its erect, its better than the fucking shit hole your opponent has built spending 100 million.

That is daftness exemplified.

Offline Red number seven

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,289
  • Today's newspaper, tomorrow's chip paper
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #215 on: November 2, 2009, 07:25:34 pm »
See, it's this type of closed mind thinking that leads to these threads going for dozens of pages and no-one learning a thing.
My point was you can't use net spend as an argument when a lot of the players sold were ones he's bought.
Why not? Net spend is a relevant concept no matter how many players you buy and sell.
A quick count of the first BHB post is that Rafa has sold 28 players that he bought. 
That is too many in 5 years, no matter what the constraints - in fact, especially because of the constraints.  That's a load of signing on fees, and likely a few severance fees for leaving when they didn't mind staying.
Why would you keep players you can trade up on?
Quoting 5 good players out of that massive list that are here and have improved the team if anything strengthens the arguments against rather than for.
Why? That's half a side of world class players, and regardless of who else has been signed and for how much, that is a good thing and Rafa should be congratulated for his incredibly high hit rate when signing players for over 15Million.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 07:30:39 pm by Red number seven »
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Passmaster Molby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,111
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #216 on: November 2, 2009, 07:29:37 pm »
BHB that post is absolute gold mate - top, top work fella.

Really needs to be e-mailed to all of the national papers and see if any of the fuckers use it in their articles. The semi readable bile they usually spew needs fucking dampening down, and that post gives it nice and straight.

Fantastic stuff.

Offline Anoynymouslad87

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #217 on: November 2, 2009, 07:34:41 pm »
All this about Rafa needing to completely re-build after Houllier doesnt stand for me.
You're all talking as if under Houllier Liverpool were a mid table side, correct me if I'm wrong but ONE finish outside the top 4 in his 5 full seasons.
A runners up place AHEAD of us despite us signing Veron and van Nistelrooy.
You like to make out that Liverpool were in dismay under Houllier, forgetting he's been your most successful manager since the 80's.

I'll agree that shooting out stuff like "Rafas spent 250 million" doesn't tell the whole story at all, but he's not completely innocent. He's made a lot of errors in the transfer market and it doesnt seem he ever wants to accept that.
The constant bleating on about "other" clubs is just petty, you dont see Wenger do it and he arguably gets less to spend than Rafa.

It was Rafa's choice to completely change the squad, he continues to slowly but surely do it as the years progress.
I dont think he has much patience with players either, how many players he bought and then sold within two years (for whatever reasons)?
Liverpool need to limit their number of signings a season as well, its too much, every year its 10 in 10 out.
This NEVER happens at United and Chelsea and Arsenal tend to not have as many changes either.

Another flaw in his transfer policy is with younger players, are they just not good enough or are they not getting the chance?
Barragan, Roque, Paletta, Ajdarevic, Leto to name a few they just came and went.

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #218 on: November 2, 2009, 07:37:53 pm »
The issue isn't how much he has spent or not spent, but whether he get the best he could with the money available.  In particular the lack of strikers and playmakers is our problem.  He did sell Crouch and Alonso (albeit that they both wanted to go coz he had pissed them off) and replaced them with Keane and an injured Aquilani.  He allowed Keane to go.

As regards the media coverage of Rafa's dealings, just remember that United and Arsenal spent less than us (net).  United were of course able to spend big when they needed to.

a decent book sums this up, " there are none so blind as those that cannot see".

Do you also believe the earth is flat?
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #219 on: November 2, 2009, 07:43:24 pm »
BHB, you're famous  :o
 
Though I see the bitters are all over it with Whelanesque 'facts' already  ::)
 
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2009/11/02/rafa-benitez-s-liverpool-fc-transfer-dealings-the-facts-92534-25074121/

Offline jason42

  • .....aka jason23
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,710
  • THE REAL TRUTH- "Liverpool fans were not to blame"
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #220 on: November 2, 2009, 07:44:40 pm »
In order to try and dispell a few media fuelled myths that sections of our fanbase seem to have swollowed; here's the full list of players he's signed since he's been at the club (please read the summary below):

Too fucking simple!
Too fucking easy!!!

Why let these facts get in the way of a good ol' Rafa-bashing? I heard John Salako on the radio this afternoon giving us the massive benefit of his amazing managerial knowledge (after all those who can manage and those who can't pundit ;) ) and he said that the root of Rafa's problems was the fact that the players he had bought like Voronin, N'Gog, Lucas and other were not good enough. I was screaming at the radio that most of the players he mentioned were either free or bargain basement and the best that we could afford at the time based on the money we had.


Great post BHB...
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 07:45:23 pm by Barney_Rubble »
Quote from: macca888 link=topic=276522
Came to this thread a bit late, but from what I've read, the real relationship trouble is not between you and your girl, but between you and a small box of Tampax. You obviously need something more substantial in your life like a huge Costco sized box of jam rags, seeing as you're such a massive fucking quim

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #221 on: November 2, 2009, 07:47:02 pm »
You like to make out that Liverpool were in dismay under Houllier
There's a reason for that. We were. He was a top bloke but his last year and a half were horrible, absolutely horrible. Took us backwards, and was there at least a season too long. Two things stand out for me:

Bringing Vladi on for Didi v Leverkusen. The single worst substitution I've ever seen

Deciding not to keep Anelka, who was keen to stay, instead spending £10m on El-Hadji Diouf.

Make no mistake, we were in disarray when Rafa took over.

Offline LiverpoolForever

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,874
  • Exit Calm new single ''The Rapture'' out Feb 18.
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #222 on: November 2, 2009, 07:47:21 pm »
All this about Rafa needing to completely re-build after Houllier doesnt stand for me.
You're all talking as if under Houllier Liverpool were a mid table side, correct me if I'm wrong but ONE finish outside the top 4 in his 5 full seasons.
 .


We finished 30 POINTS behind the champions in Houlliers last season.Does that tell you that we were a very good squad and Houllier left us in good shape?

Offline BCCC

  • Or B square
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,962
  • Blessed are the Cheesemakers
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #223 on: November 2, 2009, 07:47:51 pm »
Good post BHB, one of a few similar finally cropping up in on the net Rafa's defence. Not that the media will take any notice cause they've got hold now and they can smell blood. All rational thinking goes out of the window.
*****LFC Purveyors of fine football tradition since 1892*****

Offline Red number seven

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,289
  • Today's newspaper, tomorrow's chip paper
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #224 on: November 2, 2009, 07:49:13 pm »
All this about Rafa needing to completely re-build after Houllier doesnt stand for me.
You're all talking as if under Houllier Liverpool were a mid table side, correct me if I'm wrong but ONE finish outside the top 4 in his 5 full seasons.
I'm not a Houllier basher, and he did do some good at the club. The first team he bequeathed was...Dudek (not good enough), Finnan (good but aging/injured), Hyypia (excellent but ageing - Rafa got more out of him than could have been dreamt of), Henchoz (good but finished) or Carra (average at the time and made by Rafa), Riise (going backwards) or Traore (poor), Hamann (good but ageing) or Diao (wank), Biscan (ordinary) or Gerrard (quality but improved to one of the world's best under Rafa), Kewell or Smicer (both good but never fit), Diouf (Twat and sold before Rafa started), Heskey(gone backwards and sold before Rafa started), Owen (quality but already made his mind up to leave and ran down his contract reducing his value) Baros (ordinary to decent) and the new signing of Cisse (spunking 14 Million of the transfer pot on a no more than decent centre forward.)

The club was all over the plave when he arrived. He needed to convince Gerrard to stay. From that, with net 15 mill a year spend he has been in 2 European Cup finals (winning 1), 3 semis, won an FA Cup, qualified for CL every year and never (yet) failed to get to the last 16, and finished only 4 points off a title last season achieving LFC's record points haul. I'd say he's made 15mill/year's worth of progress, wouldn't you?
"You just have to give them credit for not throwing in the towel" - Gennaro Gattuso, May, 2005

And then we'll get 4th as well and everyone in the whole world can do one.

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #225 on: November 2, 2009, 07:51:41 pm »
Disagree, Jose might not have won the champs league with us but he is a top rate manager and I fancy there would have been more domestic glory.

Well maybe but he is currently boring the milanese  with his lack lustre Inter team, and people think Rafa is defensive hey?
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

hoonin

  • Guest
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #226 on: November 2, 2009, 07:59:42 pm »
Fuckin hell BHB. That's the best thing I've read on here in years.

Offline roscommonred

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • No.5 was good
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #227 on: November 2, 2009, 08:01:28 pm »
Should we forget about a manager actually coaching a team then?

Mad stuff, I know, but it just might work. Or do we just throw endless money at the team and all will be well?
After No.5 I said I didn't care if we never won another game. I was wrong.

Offline Varmenni

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #228 on: November 2, 2009, 08:02:18 pm »
All this about Rafa needing to completely re-build after Houllier doesnt stand for me.
Check out my earlier post and tell me that you would rather have those players than what we have now.

Quote
Another flaw in his transfer policy is with younger players, are they just not good enough or are they not getting the chance?
Barragan, Roque, Paletta, Ajdarevic, Leto to name a few they just came and went.
Barragan and Ajdarevic wanted to move to a smaller pond so they would look bigger.  Leto lost his Italian passport and couldn't get a work permit or he would possibly still be at the club.  Paletta wasn't good enough for the EPL so he was swapped for Insúa.

Offline SadRed

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,219
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #229 on: November 2, 2009, 08:03:09 pm »
Quote
All this about Rafa needing to completely re-build after Houllier doesnt stand for me.
You're all talking as if under Houllier Liverpool were a mid table side, correct me if I'm wrong but ONE finish outside the top 4 in his 5 full seasons.


Yes we were hanging on to 4th, because 5th,6th, 7th were shitter. What matters is the quality of the squad, look at every player of the Houllier era that has been cleared and where he has gone. And do the same fucking thing with the present squad, and where these players will go if every player is cleared.

Quote
I'll agree that shooting out stuff like "Rafas spent 250 million" doesn't tell the whole story at all, but he's not completely innocent. He's made a lot of errors in the transfer market and it doesnt seem he ever wants to accept that.
The constant bleating on about "other" clubs is just petty, you dont see Wenger do it and he arguably gets less to spend than Rafa.

He hasnt made a lot of errors, he has made very few errors, but ofcourse made some. Wenger has spent a tad bit less, look at the current Arsenal squad, Arshavin, Van Persie, Nasri, Rosicky, Walcott, Eduardo, Vermaleen, Sagna, Gallas, form the core of the team and are all big monet buys. Players like Fabregas, Song, Clichy Diaby are there own, and therefore Wenger has special respect from everyone. But despite that, Arsenal have won NOTHING in the last 5 years, we have finished ahead of them every year except one, and Rafa in the last 5 years has been far more successful than Wenger. Squad shows the truth.

Quote
It was Rafa's choice to completely change the squad, he continues to slowly but surely do it as the years progress.
I dont think he has much patience with players either, how many players he bought and then sold within two years (for whatever reasons)?

Because they were GASH. Look up who the players were, where they are and what have they done. And look at the players now. There is a massive difference in quality, and it tells in Europe where Liverpool were the best team in the world last year according to UEFA ratings.

The reason is simple too, you cant change all at once coz you dont have money. We missed out on Villa for a couple of million, on Alves for a couple of million, on Vidic for a couple of million.  We had to buy likes of Bellamy, then sell him for a profit and buy Crouch. Then sell him to buy Torres. That is the reason. A manc can never see it coz they have a built squad, and you can splash 20 million on 1 player. We cant. We have just started to do that now, because our sales are now very high quality and give us that ability.

Quote
Liverpool need to limit their number of signings a season as well, its too much, every year its 10 in 10 out.
This NEVER happens at United and Chelsea and Arsenal tend to not have as many changes either.

Because Arsenal and United have had squads for ages. They have to replace one or two ageing players. Thats it. Their squads have been built for ages. Chelsea spent billions in one year to buy all the quality players, that time the outlay was more than 10. Now all they need is tweaking, eg add a winger maybe.

Liverpool on the other hand, have to sell players for small profits and buy slightly better ones. We have always wanted to buy Silva, but we didnt have the money. Maybe once we sell Babel and Dossena, we can raise money to buy him.

Quote
Another flaw in his transfer policy is with younger players, are they just not good enough or are they not getting the chance?
Barragan, Roque, Paletta, Ajdarevic, Leto to name a few they just came and went.

Look up the spending on youth policy. It has been the lowest among all the teams. He did a complete overhaul. And we have players coming in now. Insua is one. Eccelston played the other day. Pacheco and Nemeth are the most promising, Pacheco is away for some national team. Nemeth is on loan.

hoonin

  • Guest
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #230 on: November 2, 2009, 08:08:29 pm »
Should we forget about a manager actually coaching a team then?

Which manager is that?

Quote
Mad stuff, I know

What is?

Quote
but it just might work

What might work?

Quote
Or do we just throw endless money at the team and all will be well?

If money is "endless" then it's not an issue, right?

Offline The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society

  • It's not much I know, but this is the best Barney could come up with at short notice. Too tight to buy his own cross-dressing gear. AKA 'Condomhead'. Has apparently had Elton John.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 37,344
  • Lest we forget
    • Check out my RedmenTV Blogs
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #231 on: November 2, 2009, 08:12:37 pm »
seriously how can anyone argue that article, it's bullet proof.
Please take a look at my latest blog for theredmentv "Dispelling the Rodgers/Martinez myth" http://www.theredmentv.com/blog/p/263 All other blogs can be read at www.theredmentv.com/blog Let me know your thoughts

Online Purple Gorilla

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 392
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #232 on: November 2, 2009, 08:13:48 pm »
Has made more good buys than bad buys imo. Reina and Agger are the two buys that really stand out for me for the simple fact the signings at around 6m each is a steal as both are top quality players who would command alot more than the 6m they where bought for

Offline roscommonred

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
  • No.5 was good
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #233 on: November 2, 2009, 08:14:39 pm »
Which manager is that?

That would be benitez.

Quote
What is?

The idea of the manager actually coaching the team instead of moaning about money.

Quote
What might work?

Coaching.

Quote
If money is "endless" then it's not an issue, right?

I'm not the one making an issue of money, enough on here to do that.

I'm happy to clarify for you, sorry for making it so difficult to understand to begin with.
After No.5 I said I didn't care if we never won another game. I was wrong.

Offline Anoynymouslad87

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #234 on: November 2, 2009, 08:16:35 pm »

We finished 30 POINTS behind the champions in Houlliers last season.Does that tell you that we were a very good squad and Houllier left us in good shape?

You finished 37 points behind the Champions in Rafas first season.

Whilst I can see the points being made about certain players under Houllier being in decline and what not, the fact is those players still managed to consistantly finish in the top 4 and do fairly well in cup competitions.

Whilst thats been answered, what about your thoughts, on 10 in 10 out a season, surely that must come to an end?
The lack of youth being developed at your club, where is your Rafael? Clichy? Evans? Welbeck? Wilshere? why are there no youngsters coming through in the first team?
Its ok saying "this lad looked great in reserves" but where are they on nights like last Wednesday?


Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #235 on: November 2, 2009, 08:21:50 pm »
That would be benitez.
Mr. Benitez to you.
The idea of the manager actually coaching the team instead of moaning about money.
He hasn't, for a long time.
Coaching.
That's what he's doing. You sound like Tom Hicks with his 'stick to coaching the team'. That isn't a good thing. He's coaching and managing and working very hard, despite the luck of the devil this season.
I'm not the one making an issue of money, enough on here to do that.
Ah, so there's no money issue then and we'll buy David Villa in January. Awesome dude.
I'm happy to clarify for you, sorry for making it so difficult to understand to begin with.
Wibble.


Quite fun this quoting lark!

Offline In the Name of Klopp

  • smann. Talks as if he/she/they single handedly saw off H&G in 2010.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,669
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #236 on: November 2, 2009, 08:22:01 pm »
You finished 37 points behind the Champions in Rafas first season.

Whilst I can see the points being made about certain players under Houllier being in decline and what not, the fact is those players still managed to consistantly finish in the top 4 and do fairly well in cup competitions.

Whilst thats been answered, what about your thoughts, on 10 in 10 out a season, surely that must come to an end?
The lack of youth being developed at your club, where is your Rafael? Clichy? Evans? Welbeck? Wilshere? why are there no youngsters coming through in the first team?
Its ok saying "this lad looked great in reserves" but where are they on nights like last Wednesday?



What about Insua? I heard he's a good little player and plays for the Argentinian national team ;)
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”

Offline JP-65

  • FA/UEFA/FIFA are not fit for purpose
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,772
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #237 on: November 2, 2009, 08:23:07 pm »
You finished 37 points behind the Champions in Rafas first season.

Whilst I can see the points being made about certain players under Houllier being in decline and what not, the fact is those players still managed to consistantly finish in the top 4 and do fairly well in cup competitions.

Whilst thats been answered, what about your thoughts, on 10 in 10 out a season, surely that must come to an end?
The lack of youth being developed at your club, where is your Rafael? Clichy? Evans? Welbeck? Wilshere? why are there no youngsters coming through in the first team?
Its ok saying "this lad looked great in reserves" but where are they on nights like last Wednesday?



Why don't you go back to RedCafe, you clearly don't know what your talking about.

Offline Anoynymouslad87

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #238 on: November 2, 2009, 08:23:41 pm »

Because Arsenal and United have had squads for ages. They have to replace one or two ageing players. Thats it. Their squads have been built for ages. Chelsea spent billions in one year to buy all the quality players, that time the outlay was more than 10. Now all they need is tweaking, eg add a winger maybe.

Liverpool on the other hand, have to sell players for small profits and buy slightly better ones. We have always wanted to buy Silva, but we didnt have the money. Maybe once we sell Babel and Dossena, we can raise money to buy him.


massively disagree with this, when Chelsea got their spending going, we were forced to re build our squad, we had plenty of dead weight in our team in the 2004/2005 season.
We didnt just have to replace one or two ageing players, look at our team now and compare it to the 2004/2005 team.
Vidic, Evra, Van der Sar, Carrick, Park, Anderson, all a vital part of our team now but werent here 4 years ago and none of them were signed for overly spectacular fees.
Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Miller, Forlan and all the other two bit garbage we had all had to be cleared out.
If youn look through our signings since then, you'll find most if not all are still at the club and for me thats the key.
Rafa is far too quick to offload.

Oh and Arsenal as well, their invisble team of 2003/2004 has completely gone now, not a single player remains.
So you just cannot say us and them havent had to rebuild, thats completely incorrect.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2009, 08:26:50 pm by Anoynymouslad87 »

Offline Varmenni

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Players signed by Rafael Benitez
« Reply #239 on: November 2, 2009, 08:26:20 pm »
Whilst thats been answered, what about your thoughts, on 10 in 10 out a season, surely that must come to an end?
If this years 10 are better than last years then what is the problem?

Quote
The lack of youth being developed at your club, where is your Rafael? Clichy? Evans? Welbeck? Wilshere? why are there no youngsters coming through in the first team?
Might have been true in recent years but is on the mend.
Quote
Its ok saying "this lad looked great in reserves" but where are they on nights like last Wednesday?
Our Rafael was injured against Lyon, our Clichy was playing,  our Evans came on against Fulham, our Welbeck is out on loan and our Wilshere was away with his national side (U19).