Author Topic: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager (ours to keep - or at least till 2018)  (Read 958607 times)

Offline Abrak

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #200 on: February 9, 2014, 01:57:54 pm »
We really struck gold with this manager, and I think he can bypass Rafa's achievements over the next few years.
That's a tough call. In Rafa's day we were the top 3 spender in terms of both transfers and wages, so 'not' to qualify for Champions League was underperforming. Now with City and Arsenal's stadium paid off we are 5th and qualifying for the CL is outperforming. It would be great if Rodgers could achieve what Rafa did - and if he did it would be an even greater achievement.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #201 on: February 9, 2014, 02:01:42 pm »
Me, to be fair :D

(Smug PoP is smug)

I'd like to be a little bit of a smug in this one too. I didn't know anything about him before he joined us, for that considered it a risky decision. But after the first couple of pre season games I knew he would be coming good and was one of the first who backed him to the hilt around here. I remember especially his first couple of league games and the massive guts he showed there and I honestly cannot remember ONE manager in a similar position being that brave when starting at a big club in such a difficult situation in which we were in back then.
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #202 on: February 9, 2014, 02:07:35 pm »
I think FSG deserve a bit more credit than pure lucky (although they did get lucky). If you remember the other manager they were potentially interested in was Martinez - another manager that nobody wanted - but hasnt turned out to be too bad.

Was just coming into this thread to post something similar.  I'm delighted we got Brendan but it looks like both our choices at that time are doing rather well when given the chance to work with better players and slightly bigger budgets.
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #203 on: February 9, 2014, 02:28:03 pm »
Was just coming into this thread to post something similar.  I'm delighted we got Brendan but it looks like both our choices at that time are doing rather well when given the chance to work with better players and slightly bigger budgets.

Yup, got to agree. I remember news being that FSG were being advised by 'football people' in relation to managerial appointment. Looks like these guys knew what they were doing.
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Offline vblfc

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #204 on: February 9, 2014, 02:33:07 pm »
So, was it confirmed that Henry was at Anfield yesterday?  Would have been great for Brendan to have the boss see that game live.

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #205 on: February 9, 2014, 02:38:55 pm »
Michael Edwards was the main advisor wasn't he?

Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #206 on: February 9, 2014, 02:39:51 pm »
if we qualify for champions league we will really need to bulk up the squad. getting the quality at the right price has proven to be difficult. 

wouldnt want to see more major fuck ups in our negotiating for players, and theres been plenty of that. also FSG might baulk at paying biggish money and wages for players that are basically squad players, which you will need for champions league and retaining top 4.

so brendan does the near impossible gets us champions league, we only have 1 window to get new players, and we might fuck that up.

the question, would brendan be tempted to say fuck this and move on? he has proved his worth this year as a top manager regardless of where we finish. not a nice question i know, but sometimes the way the club is run we seem to mess things up.

Offline Samie

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #207 on: February 9, 2014, 02:43:29 pm »


the question, would brendan be tempted to say fuck this and move on? he has proved his worth this year as a top manager regardless of where we finish. not a nice question i know, but sometimes the way the club is run we seem to mess things up.

Where is he going to go? The other heavyweight clubs  in Europe won't be looking at him at this stage of his career  and in this league which team could he go to that you can say well he's stepped up?

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #208 on: February 9, 2014, 02:44:08 pm »
if we qualify for champions league we will really need to bulk up the squad. getting the quality at the right price has proven to be difficult. 

wouldnt want to see more major fuck ups in our negotiating for players, and theres been plenty of that. also FSG might baulk at paying biggish money and wages for players that are basically squad players, which you will need for champions league and retaining top 4.

so brendan does the near impossible gets us champions league, we only have 1 window to get new players, and we might fuck that up.

the question, would brendan be tempted to say fuck this and move on? he has proved his worth this year as a top manager regardless of where we finish. not a nice question i know, but sometimes the way the club is run we seem to mess things up.

Just pour something into that glass lad.  Ta.
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Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #209 on: February 9, 2014, 02:50:46 pm »
Just pour something into that glass lad.  Ta.

haha, yeah had enough yesterday. im always one keeping an eye for potential fuck ups coming down the road. all is rosy in the garden today.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #210 on: February 9, 2014, 02:58:21 pm »
Where is he going to go? The other heavyweight clubs  in Europe won't be looking at him at this stage of his career  and in this league which team could he go to that you can say well he's stepped up?

Potentially:

Moyes gets sacked from United, Mourinho gets his dream job at Old Trafford. Abramovich head hunts the manager who can get his team winning and playing exciting attacking football and who gets the most out of what he has.

It won't happen, but that's a possible scenario where, if Rodgers left, he would end up at a club with a better squad in England than we currently have.
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Offline PROPER crazyemlyn72

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #211 on: February 9, 2014, 03:09:38 pm »
^^^^^^thats exactly what i was thinking. its not impossible. certainly not likely, but just dont take things for granted. it all comes down to how we do in the transfer market this summer. and those negotiating guys, and the money guys, see things differently to us.

edit...also if wenger implodes, they were so close to getting rid of him last year. how quickly things could change.

Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #212 on: February 9, 2014, 03:26:06 pm »
My friend was joking about Kenny getting kicked (it was a difficult period post Hodgson) and replaced with some guy called Rodgers from Swansea.

"Really good pass and move football".

Thought he was out if his mind - who the heck is this Brendan fella I've not even heard of before?
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Offline soxfan

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #213 on: February 9, 2014, 03:26:38 pm »
Me, to be fair :D

(Smug PoP is smug)
You're very knowledgeable, I enjoy reading many of your posts, but my gosh can you please stop with the incessant "Golly gee lads, I'm smarter than all of you." Modesty is a wonderful trait.  :)
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Offline soxfan

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #214 on: February 9, 2014, 03:32:30 pm »
So, was it confirmed that Henry was at Anfield yesterday?  Would have been great for Brendan to have the boss see that game live.
I read on one of the news sites that it was Werner, not Henry, at Anfield. Hopefully one of the supporters who was at the match can clarify that one.
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Offline Teh_Red

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #215 on: February 9, 2014, 03:34:03 pm »
You're very knowledgeable, I enjoy reading many of your posts, but my gosh can you please stop with the incessant "Golly gee lads, I'm smarter than all of you." Modesty is a wonderful trait.  :)

Well to be honest PoP is more knowledgeable than the vast majority of posters on this forum. It's his profession after all ;)

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #216 on: February 9, 2014, 03:34:14 pm »
You're very knowledgeable, I enjoy reading many of your posts, but my gosh can you please stop with the incessant "Golly gee lads, I'm smarter than all of you." Modesty is a wonderful trait.  :)
He is answering someone who asked "Who in here said anything like 'BR will make a brilliant manager for Liverpool'?"

PoP has supported and defended Rodgers since he was appointed manager. He said at the beginning of this season we will be challenging the top three places this season.

He has a right to be smug in my opinion, but any feeling of him saying "I'm smarter than the rest of you" is purely in your own mind.
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Offline bobby19

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #217 on: February 9, 2014, 03:36:18 pm »
Don't think Rodgers would even contemplate leaving us regardless of where we finish at the end of the season.

The only problem I foresee is if we finish 4th and qualify for Champions League - as in January it was evident that our board and FSG still wanted to buy bargain type players but I think BR would have preferred a major signing.

My query is will the board & FSG back three or four major signings that cost big money and big wages which will be needed to compete in all competitions next season if we qualify for CL or will we still be going with the bargain buy which ultimately I could see frustrating BR and possibly hold back the team from achieving its full potential ?!?

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #218 on: February 9, 2014, 03:37:03 pm »
You're very knowledgeable, I enjoy reading many of your posts, but my gosh can you please stop with the incessant "Golly gee lads, I'm smarter than all of you." Modesty is a wonderful trait.  :)

So is a sense of humour and self-deprecation.

So much is lost in pure text communication.
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #219 on: February 9, 2014, 03:38:22 pm »
The only problem I foresee is if we finish 4th and qualify for Champions League - as in January it was evident that our board and FSG still wanted to buy bargain type players but I think BR would have preferred a major signing.

My query is will the board & FSG back three or four major signings that cost big money and big wages which will be needed to compete in all competitions next season if we qualify for CL or will we still be going with the bargain buy which ultimately I could see frustrating BR and possibly hold back the team from achieving its full potential ?!?

Since when has £15m been bargain type players?

Offline Abrak

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #220 on: February 9, 2014, 03:39:47 pm »
Potentially:

Moyes gets sacked from United, Mourinho gets his dream job at Old Trafford. Abramovich head hunts the manager who can get his team winning and playing exciting attacking football and who gets the most out of what he has.

It won't happen, but that's a possible scenario where, if Rodgers left, he would end up at a club with a better squad in England than we currently have.

To be frank, if Rodgers left Liverpool to go and become a manger of Chelsea under Abramovich, I would serious wonder why we could have picked a manager with such inherently poor judgment in the first place.

Offline Cestrianred

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #221 on: February 9, 2014, 03:40:55 pm »
I read on one of the news sites that it was Werner, not Henry, at Anfield. Hopefully one of the supporters who was at the match can clarify that one.

Correct
It was Werner there yesterday

Offline bobby19

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #222 on: February 9, 2014, 03:41:30 pm »
Since when has £15m been bargain type players?

It's not massive money but if the likes of City, Chelsea start showing interest will the board be willing to do battle and spend the extra money required to sign the player as we have failed to do on a number of occasions in recent years ?!?

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #223 on: February 9, 2014, 03:42:14 pm »
I think FSG deserve a bit more credit than pure lucky (although they did get lucky). If you remember the other manager they were potentially interested in was Martinez - another manager that nobody wanted - but hasnt turned out to be too bad.

Agreed. With you're looking for job suitability it's never about simply what your resume says you've done as much as it is the type of work you do and how it translates to the position in question. Rodgers and Martinez had that.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #224 on: February 9, 2014, 03:42:18 pm »
To be frank, if Rodgers left Liverpool to go and become a manger of Chelsea under Abramovich, I would serious wonder why we could have picked a manager with such inherently poor judgment in the first place.

I think the point isn't that he would leave Liverpool for Chelsea - but that he would leave Liverpool due to the lack of support, and the Chelsea job would open up, and he would be a desirable manager for them.
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #225 on: February 9, 2014, 03:44:14 pm »
It's not massive money but if the likes of City, Chelsea start showing interest will the board be willing to do battle and spend the extra money required to sign the player as we have failed to do on a number of occasions in recent years ?!?

As long as it's not over valuing the player. We can't afford to, and really shouldn't, be trying to beat Chelsea and City on fee's and wages. It could easily land us in a whole load of trouble.

I also don't think we need to. We'd of signed a big money player last summer if we'd of been able to offer CL football, hopefully this summer we will have that to offer.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #226 on: February 9, 2014, 03:48:27 pm »
As long as it's not over valuing the player. We can't afford to, and really shouldn't, be trying to beat Chelsea and City on fee's and wages. It could easily land us in a whole load of trouble.

I also don't think we need to. We'd of signed a big money player last summer if we'd of been able to offer CL football, hopefully this summer we will have that to offer.

I think the value issue is interesting, because it can come down to a difference of opinion between what the money-men consider value, and what Rodgers considers to be value. A player may push the limits of what the money-men consider to be value for money, and naysay a potential transfer, whereas Rodgers might value that player as a hugely important piece of his tactical jigsaw, and that's where problems and dissatisfaction can occur, because you can't build a special team on a profit-and-loss sheet. Great teams are built by football men and women with vision, not with accountants sticking to a bottom line. That for me is the only area where FSG and Liverpool could possibly lose Rodgers.
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Offline bobby19

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #227 on: February 9, 2014, 03:51:34 pm »
As long as it's not over valuing the player. We can't afford to, and really shouldn't, be trying to beat Chelsea and City on fee's and wages. It could easily land us in a whole load of trouble.

I also don't think we need to. We'd of signed a big money player last summer if we'd of been able to offer CL football, hopefully this summer we will have that to offer.

Totally agree with the over valuing players and we def don't want to be putting ourselves into financial trouble. But if we qualify for CL we are in a whole new ball game in terms of transfers and competing with the top teams which we haven't been able to do in recent years. What I'm asking is do you think is will Rodgers get the backing he deserves in terms of big name signings even if it means paying a bit more because the likes of Chelsea, city have started sniffing around or will FSG still have memories of Carroll & Downing and not sanction big money signings with big wages ?!?

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #228 on: February 9, 2014, 03:51:53 pm »
I think the value issue is interesting, because it can come down to a difference of opinion between what the money-men consider value, and what Rodgers considers to be value. A player may push the limits of what the money-men consider to be value for money, and naysay a potential transfer, whereas Rodgers might value that player as a hugely important piece of his tactical jigsaw, and that's where problems and dissatisfaction can occur, because you can't build a special team on a profit-and-loss sheet. Great teams are built by football men and women with vision, not with accountants sticking to a bottom line. That for me is the only area where FSG and Liverpool could possibly lose Rodgers.

I presume the valuation is being set by the committee, with them being consulted when the price goes above this.

If it is purely money men valuing the player then there is a massive massive issue there, but I can't see why it would be working that way, and not sure there is any evidence of it either.

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #229 on: February 9, 2014, 03:52:24 pm »
FSG lucked out didn't they? Who in here said anything like 'BR will make a brilliant manager for Liverpool'?

We didn't. This guy knows his onions and his version of football; awesome.

Quite a few people ;)

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Offline bobby19

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #230 on: February 9, 2014, 03:53:22 pm »
I think the value issue is interesting, because it can come down to a difference of opinion between what the money-men consider value, and what Rodgers considers to be value. A player may push the limits of what the money-men consider to be value for money, and naysay a potential transfer, whereas Rodgers might value that player as a hugely important piece of his tactical jigsaw, and that's where problems and dissatisfaction can occur, because you can't build a special team on a profit-and-loss sheet. Great teams are built by football men and women with vision, not with accountants sticking to a bottom line. That for me is the only area where FSG and Liverpool could possibly lose Rodgers.

Cheers pop hit the nail on the head for me. This is the biggest problem I think the club will face if we qualify for CL of course

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #231 on: February 9, 2014, 03:53:26 pm »
Totally agree with the over valuing players and we def don't want to be putting ourselves into financial trouble. But if we qualify for CL we are in a whole new ball game in terms of transfers and competing with the top teams which we haven't been able to do in recent years. What I'm asking is do you think is will Rodgers get the backing he deserves in terms of big name signings even if it means paying a bit more because the likes of Chelsea, city have started sniffing around or will FSG still have memories of Carroll & Downing and not sanction big money signings with big wages ?!?

They have just sanctioned our biggest ever wage offer so there is no way you can say they aren't willing to pay wages.

As for fee's, they offered big amounts 3 times last summer, so again they are clearly willing to.

Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #232 on: February 9, 2014, 03:54:13 pm »
I presume the valuation is being set by the committee, with them being consulted when the price goes above this.

If it is purely money men valuing the player then there is a massive massive issue there, but I can't see why it would be working that way, and not sure there is any evidence of it either.

The fact that we low-balled on Salah after agreeing a price, according to Y2J here would indicate that there is a financial-motivated value judgement being applied over the manager's tactical and technical judgment, no?
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #233 on: February 9, 2014, 03:55:14 pm »
to be honest i wanted Rodgers since Swansea got promoted
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #234 on: February 9, 2014, 03:56:28 pm »
The fact that we low-balled on Salah after agreeing a price, according to Y2J here would indicate that there is a financial-motivated value judgement being applied over the manager's tactical and technical judgment, no?

The fact we low balled on him doesn't mean the top price we were willing to pay for him (which we went to eventually) wasn't set by Rodgers and the committee, it was clearly a tactic the money men were using to try and get him for a better price.

Offline fatlip13

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #235 on: February 9, 2014, 03:58:36 pm »
Brendan has been excellent as a choice for manager. our team is growing and at times we are naïve tactically but we absolutely murder some teams when we click. we are probably ahead of schedule and no Europe has helped.
I would like to finish 3rd atleast to be "in" the champions league not just the qualifying round. FSG would probably hold back on some investment incase the worst happened and we failed to qualify, which would be understandable.

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #236 on: February 9, 2014, 04:04:13 pm »
The fact we low balled on him doesn't mean the top price we were willing to pay for him (which we went to eventually) wasn't set by Rodgers and the committee, it was clearly a tactic the money men were using to try and get him for a better price.

Exactly the point I'm making. When a manager wants a player, you get that player for the manager. There's obviously an upper limit to what you'll pay, of course, but you certainly don't jeopardise negotiations by trying to play a transfer like a stock trade or something like that. Business people will always seek best-price. But you don't build teams on "best-price". Sometimes you have to pay a little over the odds for the quality you need, even if it goes slightly over your model. So far, Rodgers has been let down with Dempsey, lost out on Willian, Sigurdsson, Lamela and Salah, and we couldn't close the deal on Konoplyanka. So for his "big ticket" signings, we have mostly failed. These are the signings where, if the manager says "I really need this player", then you should push the boat out to get the player. Failure to do so once, maybe twice, is irritating to a manager. Failure to do so consistently, over a period of time, leads to dissatisfaction. To bring this back to the original discussion of Rodgers (rather than digress into a transfer thread), my feeling is that when the contract negotiations happen (assuming they do), then Rodgers will be less concerned about getting more money for himself, and more concerned with getting more say in the transfers. He wants to fulfil his own vision, his own way - that's why he didn't want a DOF, and that's why he probably has some reservations about how we do our transfer business.
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Offline vblfc

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #237 on: February 9, 2014, 04:04:18 pm »
I think Brendan has different view on the transfers from how we go about it currently, although he cant directly say it, he indirectly gives plenty of hints.  He always clearly states his intent in the pressers and he sees quality additions as key.  I think he knows there will be a tight nego and he needs to be prepared to lose a few bids it seems.  Chelsea just walk in and grab Salah for example, or the last minute nego in Ukraine.  Rodgers words during the transfer window don't quite stack up with the committee approach/process, Rodgers is saying we need to get players in etc.  Obviously his hands are tied a bit but not enough for him to rock the boat any more yet.
If he keeps getting the results and keeps us on  a high quality of play then hopefully the purse-strings loosen up a bit. If Werner was there yesterday hopefully he sees/feels the momentum.

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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #238 on: February 9, 2014, 04:05:43 pm »
The fact we low balled on him doesn't mean the top price we were willing to pay for him (which we went to eventually) wasn't set by Rodgers and the committee, it was clearly a tactic the money men were using to try and get him for a better price.
The problem with that tactic is that allows other clubs who are willing to pay what the selling club wants to come in and steal the player.

We were apparently in discussions with Salah for weeks before the window opened. Chelsea didn't show any interest until they had sold Mata.

If we hadn't tried penny pinching then we could have signed him and we wouldn't have been forced to go into the farce that was the Knoplyanka deal.
« Last Edit: February 9, 2014, 04:07:18 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool Manager
« Reply #239 on: February 9, 2014, 04:10:46 pm »
Exactly the point I'm making. When a manager wants a player, you get that player for the manager. There's obviously an upper limit to what you'll pay, of course, but you certainly don't jeopardise negotiations by trying to play a transfer like a stock trade or something like that. Business people will always seek best-price. But you don't build teams on "best-price". Sometimes you have to pay a little over the odds for the quality you need, even if it goes slightly over your model.

By that thinking you immediately go out and offer your maximum price. We aren't Chelsea or City, we need to get the best possible price on all signings we make or we won't have the budget to sign all the players that are required.

Of course the negotiator is going to go out and offer at a value they think the selling club will accept, or at least at a price they think they can begin negotiations at. It has nothing to do with the footballing value, that has already been decided between (you'd hope) the football men.

Quote
So far, Rodgers has been let down with Dempsey, lost out on Willian, Sigurdsson, Lamela and Salah, and we couldn't close the deal on Konoplyanka. So for his "big ticket" signings, we have mostly failed. These are the signings where, if the manager says "I really need this player", then you should push the boat out to get the player. Failure to do so once, maybe twice, is irritating to a manager. Failure to do so consistently, over a period of time, leads to dissatisfaction. To bring this back to the original discussion of Rodgers (rather than digress into a transfer thread), my feeling is that when the contract negotiations happen (assuming they do), then Rodgers will be less concerned about getting more money for himself, and more concerned with getting more say in the transfers. He wants to fulfil his own vision, his own way - that's why he didn't want a DOF, and that's why he probably has some reservations about how we do our transfer business.

Two of those went to a CL club who are funded by a rich Russian, I doubt even us offering our maximum valuation was going to prevent that. The other three I'll give you, there are well known issues with all of them but it isn't the thread for them and can't be arsed rehashing old points to be honest.