Author Topic: Plan B or C ?  (Read 12417 times)

Offline KTS

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Plan B or C ?
« on: April 22, 2009, 07:44:38 am »
There is no doubt that the Torres/Gerrard partnership is the best, it suits our game and it suits their game.

But if Steve is missing, too many times Torres is out on his own, and if Torres is missing we dont have anyone else.

The reliance on these two and the lack of plan B&C has cost us dearly.
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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 07:49:02 am »
It doesn't matter though does it mate because our title challenge was over in early March wasn't it?

I would say, however, that the fact we have scored eight goals against two of the big four in our last two games without the Gerrard-Torres partnership rather undermines your argument.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 07:51:34 am »
It doesn't matter though does it mate because our title challenge was over in early March wasn't it?

I would say, however, that the fact we have scored eight goals against two of the big four in our last two games without the Gerrard-Torres partnership rather undermines your argument.

Two games !, I'm talking about a whole season.

Even last night in the first half Torres was out on his own with little or no support. Masch and Alonso were chasing shadows, sometimes the same ones.

Against Chelsea Torres was anonymous.

Maybe the answer is if one of them is out, they both dont play ? :unsure:
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Offline slimshady

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 07:54:00 am »
Don't think its quite over yet.....arsenal and Manchester City hold the key....last nights could well turn out to be a point gained imo

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 07:55:35 am »
Oh yeah there was also a rumour knocking about Carlos Tevez signing and Benitez spent yesterday on the phone to his agent for over an hour after training.

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 07:59:06 am »
There is no doubt that the Torres/Gerrard partnership is the best, it suits our game and it suits their game.

But if Steve is missing, too many times Torres is out on his own, and if Torres is missing we dont have anyone else.

The reliance on these two and the lack of plan B&C has cost us dearly.

Strange comment to come out with after Yossi Benayoun's showing last night in particular. We maybe struggled with our attacking football in the middle of the season, but you couldn't say that about last night. We should have won that last night but we took risks in our balance of play and individual brain farts as well as some genuine world class quality from Arsenal in punishing them cost us the win.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 08:01:13 am »
Yossi was brilliant yesterday night.  I love that man, the way he scored the diving header despite Eboue's foot being right next to his face and ultimately making contact with it.  What a player that lad is and in the absence of Stevie, I reckon that in our current squad, Yossi is the man to play behind Torres.  
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Offline NatD

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 08:04:01 am »
It doesn't matter though does it mate because our title challenge was over in early March wasn't it?

I'd say we lost it in January!  However, the love and pride I feel for our club has never been stronger.  If the only thing we take from this season is the fact that we believe that we can win (and of course the Yanks leaving) then I will be happy!!!!!

We ARE serious challengers now.  That's what Benitez has been working on, and that's what we will be again next season.

But, I seriously can see United still dropping points, and our only banana skin IMO is West Ham away.
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Offline Wombat

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 08:05:45 am »
Does KTS stand for "Kevin talks shite" ???

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 08:15:31 am »
Last night, despite the absence of Gerrard,  Torres played a huge role and was superbly supported by Yossi Benayoun.

It is unquestionably true that Gerrard and Torres are a fantastic partnership and together are more than the sum of their parts (which is quite something as you are talking about two players who would both be in the top 5 in the world) so any team will miss that partnership.  However I think that our record this season, in which we have only seen them together fleetingly, shows that we can still function without that partnership.

And finally KTS, if you think Torres was anonymous in our four goal performance against Chelsea then I see no point in continuing this discussion any further.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 08:16:44 am »
Does KTS stand for "Kevin talks shite" ???

Of course, what else ?
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Offline liverbnz

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 08:23:37 am »
Is this for real. We score 4 goals against Chelsea and Arsenal and we need a plan b or c. Seriously mate, wake up. We need to defend better and stop making stupid individual errors. We hammered Arsenal last night and we ended up being our own worst enemy. Alonso and Mascherano chasing shadows??? WTF, did you watch the game or what?
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Offline Red number seven

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 08:27:35 am »
Even last night in the first half Torres was out on his own with little or no support. Masch and Alonso were chasing shadows, sometimes the same ones.

Yeah, Benayoun was wank last night. And Torres did fuck all without Stevie.

Of course we miss either. They are world class players who link really well, but given both have been injured for good chunks of the season, the fact that we have had a genuine title challenge and are currently top scorers in the legue suggests you're a little off the mark.

By the way, do you stand by this...
Rafa in his years here has never been an attack minded manager, and he never will. You cannot win the Championship in England by tactics alone. The English league is pace and passion combined with tactics and skill. Rafa is still to cautious in his approach to win this league and he never will change.
...or do you acknowledge that you are never satisfied and impart your wisdom retrospectively after each game - the epitomy of a knee jerk?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 08:33:53 am by Red number seven »
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Offline NatD

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 08:28:43 am »
and was superbly supported by Yossi Benayoun.

Never been a massive fan of Yossi, and personally didn't think he had filled Garcia's boots.  However his contribution this year has been great, and I think that was his best performance in the Red Shirt last night.  Some of his touches, and the way he took on players was awesome!
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 08:30:26 am »
I am convinced I saw plan B score two goals last night.

What you talking about lad.

Offline rocco

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 08:31:38 am »
4 v Chelsea away
4 v Utd way
4 v Arsenal home
4 v Madrid home
5 v Villa home
5 v Newcastle away
4 v Blackburn home

Improvement alright .... just need to get the balance right.
Chelsea and Arsenal game we got a head in both games and we forgot how to shut teams out ... we were the best at that.. need to get it back into our game with our  free scoring approach.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 08:36:31 am by rocco »

Offline rocco

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 08:33:08 am »
Oh yeah there was also a rumour knocking about Carlos Tevez signing and Benitez spent yesterday on the phone to his agent for over an hour after training.

Dynamite  T+T up front.

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 08:33:24 am »
No team would want to do without someone like Steven Gerrard and would rely on him accordingly. That's any team. I can't say there has been much problem in scoring goals and winning games without him though for one-off occassions.

I thought Kuyt and Yossi were superb last night and certainly filled in more than adequately for the loss of our captain.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 08:33:40 am »
I am convinced I saw plan B score two goals last night.

What you talking about lad.

I'm just so frustrated and probably not thinking straight, but last night there were too many times (especially in the first half) when Torres was left all by himself. I dont know what system we played last night. Granted the second half was an improvement, but all in all we rely too much on Gerrard and Torres to do the business, and our system is over-reliant on this as well. It's just my opinion, but obviously it's the wrong one judging by the reaction on here.
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Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 08:34:23 am »
If Tevez signs I will be the first man in history to run from Sydney to Melbourne in complete and utter nudity  :D
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Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 08:35:05 am »
but obviously it's the wrong one judging by the reaction on here.

You hit the nail on the head there lad.
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Offline ohh_v

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 08:35:50 am »
Very strange thread to start indeed. Benayoun and Kuyt were both immense, interchanging positions all night.

Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 08:37:36 am »
Not to mention us beating the Mancs without either of them, and coming back against the Chelsea without them.
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Offline Liverbird 2010

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 08:39:29 am »
Deffo have to buy a big target man in the summer to take the pressure off Torres and Gerrard. Or for something different when we cant break 10 man defences down.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 08:40:43 am »
You hit the nail on the head there lad.

Must be great being perfect.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2009, 08:41:19 am »
I'm just so frustrated and probably not thinking straight, but last night there were too many times (especially in the first half) when Torres was left all by himself. I dont know what system we played last night. Granted the second half was an improvement, but all in all we rely too much on Gerrard and Torres to do the business, and our system is over-reliant on this as well. It's just my opinion, but obviously it's the wrong one judging by the reaction on here.

I think your so frustrated that your not thinking straight mate.

You're just thinking about Torres and but if you look at what Yossi did throughout the game then Plan B worked because he was the replacement for Gerrard plus Torres scored 2 himself. So really this is a none issue.

However going forward the problem is easy to solve. We buy another midfielder and that would enable Gerrard to always play in his new position no matter what or we buy a quality forward to back Torres up if he is out for a period of time. This player though has to have an understanding with Gerrard or it wont work.

If I was Rafa I know wish two players I would buy to fill these roles.

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2009, 08:41:59 am »
Benayoun was fantastic last night and in several recent games. He might be a totally different player to Gerrard but caused Arsenal all sorts of problems. Kuyt is also in really good form, setting up two goals last night.

Our attacking element is not just about Torres and Gerrard.

Lack of alternative attacking options? Have you not seen our recent score sheets?

Offline Ozzy_Red

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2009, 08:44:03 am »
Must be great being perfect.

Wasn't saying that, I post my fair share of shite, due to various causes ( ;)) and I think over 90% of people disagree with you on this, end of.
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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2009, 08:44:37 am »
If Tevez signs I will be the first man in history to run from Sydney to Melbourne in complete and utter nudity  :D

LOL show us your 12 apostles dude!

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 08:51:25 am »
but all in all we rely too much on Gerrard and Torres to do the business, and our system is over-reliant on this as well.

Well we're fucked then. Reliant on two of the worlds best players and a crap system that's put us top of the league a few times this season ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. There's not much wrong with the tactical side, we just need a few more quality players and to stop giving away soft goals.

Offline Pr0n

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2009, 08:51:26 am »
Well, if you look at the whole season, it's pretty obvious that we've been lacking at times, going forward. So not yesterday. First of all, we should look to improve on Riera and Babel (although the first-mentioned should stay on), as they have been the players generally not delivering the goods when needed. Secondly, only having Xabi and Mascher as seasoned, very high class centremid options have at times caused problems with keeping balance, keeping the attacking platform intact. Either Lucas manages to take another step in his development (with added competition from Spearing) or we need another seasoned player to come in. Those are the key areas we need to improve IMO. Ofc we need some competition for the right fullback position.. but that, is a lesser issue and an issue that possibly could be solved by bringing forth some of our own.

I don't know wheter N'gog will go out on loan or if he will stay on, but he has been good enough as a backup for Torres in the second half of the season (not only because Torres has been less injured, but because N'gog have taken strides forward the whole season).
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Offline kaz1983

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2009, 09:04:50 am »
Can we score goals without Gerrard behind Torres? Yes.

The problem is we have to work alot harder off the ball, spreading ourselfs thin in the process. We showed this against both Chelsea and Arsenal recently, we weren't able to score goals playing within ourselfs. Just think back to the Man United match at Anfield, we worked very hard off the ball -stopping Man United's attacking players getting possession of the ball. Against Man United at Old Trafford we didn't shut down their attacking players no where near to the extent we did at Anfield but scored twice as many goals.

Do we need to sign a versitile attacking midfielder who can play on the right one week, thur the middle the next? I reckon we should really consider it, because right now we don't have anybody who can play that role -Benayoun is a very different kind of attacking midfielder, Lucas is still young and learning, Kuyt isn't suited to this role, N'gog is still very young.

Offline Sarge

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2009, 09:06:37 am »
Well we're fucked then. Reliant on two of the worlds best players and a crap system that's put us top of the league a few times this season ;D

Sorry, couldn't resist. There's not much wrong with the tactical side, we just need a few more quality players and to stop giving away soft goals.

Yeah pretty much sums it up for me. Who are you anyway?
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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2009, 09:10:53 am »
Who are you anyway?

I'm an anteater, so fcuk you.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2009, 09:10:58 am »
By the way, do you stand by this......or do you acknowledge that you are never satisfied and impart your wisdom retrospectively after each game - the epitomy of a knee jerk?

Excellent spot there and predictably no response from him to it.

Yossi was outstanding last night.

Check out Mancs how good are they without Ronaldo and Rooney?

Offline Sarge

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2009, 09:11:40 am »
I'm an anteater, so fcuk you.

Quite an abusive anteater at that. Bully.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2009, 09:15:44 am »
Yeah, Benayoun was wank last night. And Torres did fuck all without Stevie.

Of course we miss either. They are world class players who link really well, but given both have been injured for good chunks of the season, the fact that we have had a genuine title challenge and are currently top scorers in the legue suggests you're a little off the mark.

By the way, do you stand by this......or do you acknowledge that you are never satisfied and impart your wisdom retrospectively after each game - the epitomy of a knee jerk?

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Offline Sarge

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2009, 09:17:27 am »
finally made it....I have a stalker !

No fair i want one.
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Offline KTS

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2009, 09:18:34 am »
No fair i want one.

You have to talk shite and/or not have the opinion of the majority on here.
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Offline MNAA

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Re: Plan B or C ?
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2009, 10:01:16 am »
We lack Gerrard or Torres or both numerous times this season but we're still in it with five games to go. We can still improve here and there have but there's no doubt that we quality in abundance all over the pitch and on the bench.

Benayoun had been great whenever called upon. Invaluable attacking midfielder who can play on the right, on the left and in the middle. If anything, for certain games, we should show more belief to give him the licence to roam just behind Torres. For a Plan B, he's at least a B+.
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