Author Topic: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original  (Read 11206 times)

Offline Suspect Package.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2012, 10:32:43 am »
Watto said "Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money. No money, no parts, no deal!"

*hand wave*

"You will take these Republic credits in exchange for local money"
I'm really hoping Sturridge busts out the wacky dip when he scores.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #121 on: February 17, 2012, 10:41:25 am »
When I go to a new country, I definitely believe the first dodgy salesman I bump into.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #122 on: February 17, 2012, 10:44:42 am »
When I go to a new country, I definitely believe the first dodgy salesman I bump into.

Especially if they can fly and look like a diseased flea! But to be fair to Lucas with this, if they had the gang tromping around for 40 minutes getting nowhere that wouldn't be exciting viewing would it?
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Offline doc_antonio

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #123 on: February 17, 2012, 10:50:40 am »
Especially if they can fly and look like a diseased flea! But to be fair to Lucas with this, if they had the gang tromping around for 40 minutes getting nowhere that wouldn't be exciting viewing would it?

they could have shopped around, got the best deals, see if theres any sales on, 2 for the price of 1, 50% off, january sales that kind of stuff.
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Offline SMD

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #124 on: February 17, 2012, 10:51:45 am »
Especially if they can fly and look like a diseased flea! But to be fair to Lucas with this, if they had the gang tromping around for 40 minutes getting nowhere that wouldn't be exciting viewing would it?

But endless discussions about taxation disputes and senate kerfuffles are?
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #125 on: February 17, 2012, 11:00:49 am »

I'd say of those


Moon
District 9
Monsters


Were good. The rest - average to shite and nowhere near the stories that could be told in the genre. And there were plenty you missed that were good.

But the point is - you've come out with how many? Ten? Fifteen? Out of the hundreds of hours of shite routinely shipped out by Hollywood every year?

Inception is an incredible film. Melancholia is great, Never Let Me Go is great, Source Code is great.

Agreed with Moon though, for me that's not just a modern classic, it's one of the best science fiction films I've ever seen. Sam Rockwell is superb in pretty much everything he does, but carrying a film like that isn't easy. He pulls it off though. Loved Monsters and District 9 as well.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #126 on: February 17, 2012, 11:03:37 am »
I've only flicked through the thread really but has anyone mentioned possibly the greatest science fiction film ever made - Silent Running?

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #127 on: February 17, 2012, 11:04:05 am »
The opening scene of Empire when the droid hits the snow...is better than all the others combined.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #128 on: February 17, 2012, 11:06:30 am »
I think the prequels could have started at the end of the phantom menace to be honest. They essentially could have mirrored a new hope. Yoda says some wise shit about feeling a huge ripple in the force, sends Obi Wan on his first mission to find out who it's coming from.

Finds Anakin in some burning hut while the sandman have nicked his ma (sound familiar) decides to start training him while council deliberates on decision. Anakin could have been a bit older at this point as well - i.e. you didn't need to see him at such a young age, he could have been 15/16 and then there's more chance of a natural bond developing as well - father-son.

Anyway they're now finished and can't be undone. I did think they would be a bit darker and more engaging though.

Those plinkett reviews are funny, apparently there's a massive rebuttal somewhere of 108 pages but the only links I can find are the ones that were hosted on megaupload (since gone) so can't read it. While some of it is jest or exaggeration, the last point rings true for me. The prequels are a character driven story about Anakin into Darth Vader yet there's so much other mindless shite going on there's no character development.

I also didn't pick up on the actors walking and then having to stop to talk due to the length of the green screen. Thought that was quite interesting.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #129 on: February 17, 2012, 11:20:35 am »
Inception is an incredible film. Melancholia is great, Never Let Me Go is great, Source Code is great.

Agreed with Moon though, for me that's not just a modern classic, it's one of the best science fiction films I've ever seen. Sam Rockwell is superb in pretty much everything he does, but carrying a film like that isn't easy. He pulls it off though. Loved Monsters and District 9 as well.

Not seen meloncholia or Never let me go yet, so when I have may well add it to the 'good' list, but as I haven't seen them I can't personally add them to the 'good list'. Should probably have mentioned that I hadn't seen them really ;)

Inception wasn't bad, but was mostly hype. Wouldn't have it in my top 50 Science Fiction films because I wouldn't say it was actually Science fiction really. More mystical exploration of dream states with jazzy special effects. The fantasy/horror genre has been doing it for donkeys years. First time I saw something along those lines was HP Lovecraft and "The Silver Key" and "Through the Gates of the Silver Key" written in the 1920s

Source Code wasn't bad, but again I wouldn't have it way up there.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #130 on: February 17, 2012, 11:22:44 am »
I've only flicked through the thread really but has anyone mentioned possibly the greatest science fiction film ever made - Silent Running?

One of my favourite films ever. Huey, Duey and Luis :)

Very, very sad as well :(  Interesting the alternative endings if you read the backstories. A terrific film.
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #131 on: February 17, 2012, 12:25:30 pm »
Blimey, just found this SW forum 'originaltrilogy.com'. Uber geeks unite and take over....

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/topic/12501/
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #132 on: February 17, 2012, 12:42:58 pm »
Why would you record the audio in a theatre?
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #133 on: February 17, 2012, 12:44:01 pm »
Why would you record the audio in a theatre?

Star Wars nerds are the nerdiest nerds in nerdville, Nerdland.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #134 on: February 17, 2012, 12:58:26 pm »
Star Wars nerds are the nerdiest nerds in nerdville, Nerdland.

Yeah but this is simply:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/N-uyWAe0NhQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/N-uyWAe0NhQ</a>
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #135 on: February 17, 2012, 01:05:00 pm »
1. The Jedi land on Tatooine with only Republic credits to spend.
2. They try to buy the part they need to fix the ship, but Watto is immune to mind tricks and refuses to accept their currency.
3. Their answer: Big convoluted bet with Watto and a highly dangerous race that only apparently a 9 year old kid can compete in.

OR just buy something valuble with your credits from someone else (who's not immune to mind tricks) and then give that to Watto in exchange for his parts.

About an hour of the movie that didn't even need to be there.
Its a good argument and sort of true, if it were real life, yes it is unlikely what would happen, but this is film, things like this always happen in films, good and bad ones, take car chases for instance, the persuer loses sight of his quarry, yet he always knows which street to take so that he is soon right behind the bloke again, doesnt matter how many twists or turns the fleeing car takes or even how fast he drives, or even if their cars arent matched speedwise (yes a point made by Top Gear) the other guy always catches up to him. This bending of rules happens all the time and its part of the suspension of disbelief that allows us to sit and watch films, any films, but even more so with total fantasies. If all you ever do is sit looking for things that arent realistic or wouldnt logically happen in the real world you honestly couldnt watch any film at all.

There are numerous faults that make the prequels bad, but sometimes its just nitpicking.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #136 on: February 17, 2012, 01:06:42 pm »
Star Wars nerds are the nerdiest nerds in nerdville, Nerdland.

nah, star trek nerds take that trophy.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #137 on: February 17, 2012, 01:11:56 pm »
nah, star trek nerds take that trophy.
Especially the ones who speak Klingon

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #138 on: February 17, 2012, 01:17:15 pm »
nah, star trek nerds take that trophy.
They do indeed, I remember seeing something, cant remember what it was or why, but it had Star Trek fans having a go at Star Wars fans, the reason I remember it is because they were holding up placards and one read 'the force is illogical'
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #139 on: February 17, 2012, 01:23:34 pm »
Anyone who refers to the film released as "Star Wars" as "A New Hope" is usually talking out their arse.  ;)

A feeble, clumsy, political "message" merely ensures that the new films will date a lot more quickly than the originals. They were about good vs evil, yes, it's escapist fantasy. If you really are, for some obscure reason, looking for political analogies though, there are plenty to be found in the original movies.

The rebels (Americans mostly) defy the authority of the all-powerful Empire (Brits mostly) risking life and limb for the dream of a freer society. Play with that to your heart's content.

But there's more to it, if you want depth. The original trilogy explores basic human psychology in a way few movies do, while never sacrificing entertainment value to do it.

The urge to defy authority is a key component of the passage into adulthood. The son rises up against the father and tears down him and his beliefs so that he can become a man in his own mind. In doing so, he inevitably becomes a new version of the father himself. Luke believes his father was a great Jedi who was killed by Vader, so he too becomes a Jedi. But this isn't enough. No sooner has Luke learned his father is Vader than he in turn becomes part-machine. In the end he does kill Vader, and in doing so releases his father.

The revelation that his father used to be an irritating little shit as a child and a smug prick as a teenager adds nothing to this. In fact, it robs Vader of the tragedy of his circumstances.  :no

It's also more entertaining when we're on the side of the underdogs. The all-powerful Jedi council is tedious, corrupt and dull. It's so much easier to relate to the story of an ordinary farm boy who rises up against all the evil of the galaxy to lead people to a glorious and seemingly-impossible victory.

That's why Istanbul was such a great final, the odds were against us.  8)

In the prequel trilogy, the Jedi's downfall is due to their own arrogance and complacency in assuming the Sith are finished and putting their faith in such an obvious creep as Palpatine. Wilful stupidity (magnified by the fact we know what's going on anyway) just doesn't make for the same adrenaline rush.

It's like Istanbul for a Milan fan, seeing it all being pissed away.  ;)

As for 3D, the only time I've seen it used really well was for "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" which literally took my breath away.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #140 on: February 17, 2012, 01:26:31 pm »
They do indeed, I remember seeing something, cant remember what it was or why, but it had Star Trek fans having a go at Star Wars fans, the reason I remember it is because they were holding up placards and one read 'the force is illogical'

To be fair...it kind of is.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #141 on: February 17, 2012, 01:28:52 pm »
To be fair...it kind of is.
You are right, this now leads me to believe the force is feminine.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2012, 01:31:43 pm »
Its a good argument and sort of true, if it were real life, yes it is unlikely what would happen, but this is film, things like this always happen in films, good and bad ones, take car chases for instance, the persuer loses sight of his quarry, yet he always knows which street to take so that he is soon right behind the bloke again, doesnt matter how many twists or turns the fleeing car takes or even how fast he drives, or even if their cars arent matched speedwise (yes a point made by Top Gear) the other guy always catches up to him. This bending of rules happens all the time and its part of the suspension of disbelief that allows us to sit and watch films, any films, but even more so with total fantasies. If all you ever do is sit looking for things that arent realistic or wouldnt logically happen in the real world you honestly couldnt watch any film at all.

There are numerous faults that make the prequels bad, but sometimes its just nitpicking.

That 50th state car drive is hilarious. If you keep an eye out for all the landmarks and streets they went down. Wow. Just wow :D
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #143 on: February 17, 2012, 01:36:30 pm »
Watto said "Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money. No money, no parts, no deal!" He doesn't want more crap he could get more cheaply himself from other traders in the Town you would guess. This is reinforced with him saying "Look around! I gotta lots of a-junk"

He also said "And no one else has a T-14 hyperdrive, I promise you that" - so it's obviously a closed shop - all the traders will sell what they sell as part of a community. It was also stated several times that the real commerce (And the requirement for money) was due to the gambling that goes on.

He also wanted the ship. His plan from the start clearly was to cheat or win the ship as it was far more valuable than all the shite he (or anyone else) was selling. You didn't exactly get the feeling that he was an honest trader.

So he convinces someone else to swap his worthless credits for currency that Watto would accept.

Or he could just steal the part from Watto, which wouldn't really have been any worse than brainwashing him into accepting worthless currency, which is what he tried to start with.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #144 on: February 17, 2012, 01:38:32 pm »
So he convinces someone else to swap his worthless credits for currency that Watto would accept.

Or he could just steal the part from Watto, which wouldn't really have been any worse than brainwashing him into accepting worthless currency, which is what he tried to start with.

The guy's a slaver, just light-sabre his arse, take what you need and let's get to a cool bit with Bobba Fett or something.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #145 on: February 17, 2012, 01:42:00 pm »
So he convinces someone else to swap his worthless credits for currency that Watto would accept.

Or he could just steal the part from Watto, which wouldn't really have been any worse than brainwashing him into accepting worthless currency, which is what he tried to start with.

If you steal things then you attract attention. I doubt the two Jedi are accustomed to having to scavange bits of shite of planets from bellends. Normally they would have the full power of the Jedi behind them and would be striding around, not creeping. Also that would be dangerous as Tatooine is a planet run by the illegal Hutts

Although the Pod Racing thing was public it was a sure fire way of winning the money. As has been said the Jedi have a way of 'seeing' the future and he knew that the boy was not only special but that the meeting was fated. There was more going on than the simple grabbing of a piece for a knackered starship. The whole thing was set in motion and wasn't an accident.

.. Was where the film was coming from.


If you go down the route you suggest then loads of films could be different.

Lord of the Rings. Gandalph and Frodo hop onto an Eagle. Dump ring in Mount Doom. Back home for tea. The End.

Matrix. Takes the other pill. The end.

Armageddon. They all go to a pub and have a few beers and some hookers. World ends, but they don't care. The End.

Any James Bond film. Baddies shoots Bond through the head. The end.

Star Wars. Death star nukes Tatooine. The end.
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #146 on: February 17, 2012, 01:45:57 pm »
If you steal things then you attract attention. I doubt the two Jedi are accustomed to having to scavange bits of shite of planets from bellends. Normally they would have the full power of the Jedi behind them and would be striding around, not creeping. Also that would be dangerous as Tatooine is a planet run by the illegal Hutts

Although the Pod Racing thing was public it was a sure fire way of winning the money. As has been said the Jedi have a way of 'seeing' the future and he knew that the boy was not only special but that the meeting was fated. There was more going on than the simple grabbing of a piece for a knackered starship. The whole thing was set in motion and wasn't an accident.

.. Was where the film was coming from.


If you go down the route you suggest then loads of films could be different.

Lord of the Rings. Gandalph and Frodo hop onto an Eagle. Dump ring in Mount Doom. Back home for tea. The End.

Matrix. Takes the other pill. The end.

Armageddon. They all go to a pub and have a few beers and some hookers. World ends, but they don't care. The End.

Any James Bond film. Baddies shoots Bond through the head. The end.

Star Wars. Death star nukes Tatooine. The end.

True. Wasn't great from a cinematic point of view, though, which is where the comparison falls down.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #147 on: February 17, 2012, 01:50:13 pm »
If you steal things then you attract attention. I doubt the two Jedi are accustomed to having to scavange bits of shite of planets from bellends. Normally they would have the full power of the Jedi behind them and would be striding around, not creeping. Also that would be dangerous as Tatooine is a planet run by the illegal Hutts

Although the Pod Racing thing was public it was a sure fire way of winning the money. As has been said the Jedi have a way of 'seeing' the future and he knew that the boy was not only special but that the meeting was fated. There was more going on than the simple grabbing of a piece for a knackered starship. The whole thing was set in motion and wasn't an accident.

.. Was where the film was coming from.


If you go down the route you suggest then loads of films could be different.

Lord of the Rings. Gandalph and Frodo hop onto an Eagle. Dump ring in Mount Doom. Back home for tea. The End.

Matrix. Takes the other pill. The end.

Armageddon. They all go to a pub and have a few beers and some hookers. World ends, but they don't care. The End.

Any James Bond film. Baddies shoots Bond through the head. The end.

Star Wars. Death star nukes Tatooine. The end.


How would killing Watto in his workshop and stealing the part attract any more attention than tricking him into accept the credits? No one would know, or care, we already know that Tattoine is a place where violence is common, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid at a corrupt slave driver being killed.

Anyway, this is just a minor problem, there are far more serious things wrong with the film that make it shit, this is just a small example of the abysmal writing.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 01:51:57 pm by foreveragnome »

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #148 on: February 17, 2012, 01:58:05 pm »
The guy's a slaver, just light-sabre his arse, take what you need and let's get to a cool bit with Bobba Fett or something.
Thats one of the main problem with the prequels, Lucas rushes through scenes, making them ill thought out and clumsily handled, all in order to get to another shooty bang bang speedy action bit.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #149 on: February 17, 2012, 02:09:55 pm »
Thats one of the main problem with the prequels, Lucas rushes through scenes, making them ill thought out and clumsily handled, all in order to get to another shooty bang bang speedy action bit.

I think the biggest problem is that there's barely enough plot to cover one movie, stretched out over three. And what's important is the stuff we already know from Return of the Jedi.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2012, 02:40:23 pm »
The biggest problem I have with the Watto thing, is how can Republic credits be worthless to him? He prefers the local currency of a remote dustbowl planet to Republic credits, that currency you can spend anywhere in the fucking galaxy-spanning Republic?!!! That's like preferring the Costa Rican colón to US dollars. Add to that that Tatooine seems like the kinda place where lots of smugglers and other passersby stop off briefly, so there are loads of people who'd want the Republic credits. Watto could take them and use them to buy a ship from someone, if that's what he wants...how can there be stuff on Tatooine that can't be paid for with Republic credits?!!!

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2012, 02:44:15 pm »
The biggest problem I have with the Watto thing, is how can Republic credits be worthless to him? He prefers the local currency of a remote dustbowl planet to Republic credits, that currency you can spend anywhere in the fucking galaxy-spanning Republic?!!! That's like preferring the Costa Rican colón to US dollars. Add to that that Tatooine seems like the kinda place where lots of smugglers and other passersby stop off briefly, so there are loads of people who'd want the Republic credits. Watto could take them and use them to buy a ship from someone, if that's what he wants...how can there be stuff on Tatooine that can't be paid for with Republic credits?!!!

Maybe because it's just a story.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #153 on: February 17, 2012, 02:46:08 pm »
I think the biggest problem is that there's barely enough plot to cover one movie, stretched out over three. And what's important is the stuff we already know from Return of the Jedi.
True, when I heard about it I thought it would be cool to see lots of Jedi and loads of light saber fights, but thats what Lucas thought and thats bascially all he did.

I thought it was going to be about Vaders fall then him hunting down and killing all the Jedi, which is what Obi Wan tells Luke happened, that would of worked better. Fuck showing him as a kid, go from when he is a young man like Luke in the first film, getting to grips with being a Jedi, but with a bad history, his ma was killed etc and he has a hard time dealing with it blah blah he is essentialy a good lad but has the potential to turn bad, flashes of anger and frustration.
In the second show him learning the force like Luke, then taking the different fork in the road from the path that Luke took, cutting corners and so on, ends justifying the means sort of thing, slipping more and more to the dark side, by the end of the second film he is pretty much gone bad and it ends on a downer, like he kills Qui-Gon Jinn or some other character the audience cares about. Have to throw in a bird who he can tub so Luke & Leia are born, but have it so that his falling in love is part of his seduction to the dark side, it opens him up to other extreme emotions which he had been supressing and so on, its a good angle because women and men are often turned into nutters by relationships with one another. Maybe its her he kills at the end of the second film, maybe in a flash of anger, that seals his fall, as he directs all his anger and frustration upon himself for killing her and takes it out on the Jedi.
Final film his total fall, he hunts and fights/has fought lots of Jedi, getting increasingly more and more fucked up by these battles, until he has a final showdown with Obi Wan, who narrowly beats him but cant bring himself to kill Vader, but ends up so damaged he needs the suit to support him.

That would of worked better, for me at least :P

One of the biggest problems Lucas created for himself was allowing himself to pander to his fanbase, he should of ignored the whole there is a huge universe explored in comics, books & video games bollocks, he should of said fuck all that shit the films are seperate and stand alone to all that. But there is loads going on in the prequels which ties in or is explained in the wider universe of other mediums. Personally for me Star Wars is the films only and the other stuff is just spin offs that dont really count, particularly as Lucas didnt write it all.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #154 on: February 17, 2012, 03:01:37 pm »
Darth Maul should have lived.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #155 on: February 17, 2012, 03:06:07 pm »
Darth Maul should have lived.
Yup, he could of been the Vader to Anakin that Vader is to Luke, the dude he has to defeat and who he loses his nut killing, maybe have Maul force strangel Padme so she dies and Anakin go beserker killing him, then being intoxicated and seduced by the massive amount of power he gains from using his anger.
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Fuck the Daily Mail.
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2012, 03:20:53 pm »
Yup, he could of been the Vader to Anakin that Vader is to Luke, the dude he has to defeat and who he loses his nut killing, maybe have Maul force strangel Padme so she dies and Anakin go beserker killing him, then being intoxicated and seduced by the massive amount of power he gains from using his anger.
Exactly. What did Dooku offer that Maul couldn't have? Some lame shit about Jedi archives being erased, and unneccessary stuff about him being a Jedi.

Jango Fett was also quite annoying. Talk about pandering to the fans.

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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2012, 03:21:46 pm »
How would killing Watto in his workshop and stealing the part attract any more attention than tricking him into accept the credits? No one would know, or care, we already know that Tattoine is a place where violence is common, I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid at a corrupt slave driver being killed.

Anyway, this is just a minor problem, there are far more serious things wrong with the film that make it shit, this is just a small example of the abysmal writing.
Qui-Gon would never have killed Watto. Btw in case you missed it(as it was the last post in the page) I've posted another article defending The Phantom Menace in the last page.

Edit:Here it is.

As I write this, we stand on the brink of the first Star Wars 3D release. It's a bold move from Lucasfilm to offer up The Phantom Menace first, but it makes sense when you consider that it's largely the most reviled film in the saga. It's almost as if they are saying, hey, if you don't pay to see the movie you hate, then you can't see the ones you love.

Except I'll be seeing it opening weekend, and I'll be damn excited about it. The Phantom Menace, in my opinion, gets a bad rap for being a "travesty," an "outrage," and, my personal favorite, "childhood rape." While I'm the first to admit that Anakin Skywalker is certainly annoying (but then, isn't his son, too?) and the movie suffers from some odd pacing and stilted acting, there's also a lot to love about it. A movie not living up to the most astronomical expectations known to man and actually being a travesty are hardly one and the same.

Surprise!

While I've heard that enjoying Episode I, or any of the prequels, is because of a generational gap, I don't think that's true. I may have been 15 when the movie came out in theaters, but, just like the rest of the people who had their childhoods beaten to death (allegedly), I enjoyed the original trilogy as a little kid and continue to enjoy it (changes and all) to this day. Similar to the recent outrage about DC Comics' decision to offer a prequel story to their graphic novel classic Watchmen, I don't understand the rationale that something existing separately tarnishes the impact or greatness of the original.

Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 3D

The Phantom Menace still holds a lot of positives that I think are consistently outweighed by the negativity of critics focused on trivial continuity issues or silly/melodramatic lines of dialog that are every bit as present in the original trilogy ("But why must you confront him?" anyone?). But first and foremost, before Episode I, there was no portrayal of a living, breathing Jedi Order on screen.


While the Expanded Universe (in comics, novels, and video games) was already massive in 1999, the most we had seen of the Jedi on screen came from Obi-Wan and Luke in the original trilogy, neither of whom was in their prime. The Phantom Menace offers a glimpse into how their world works, including the Master/Padawan relationship, the Jedi Counsel, the scope of their power, and, most notably, their skill with a lightsaber.

If people are ready and willing to pick apart Phantom Menace for its follies, why not point to the terrible choreography of the original trilogy too? And you can't say it's a lack of "technology," considering two things. One, the dogfight sequences in the original trilogy are still exciting to this day, and two, Hollywood had a long history of exciting sword fight choreography up to that point, none of which translates into the original trilogy.


While Empire's Luke vs. Vader fight is a classic in cinematic history, it is only so for its emotional impact; certainly not its role as an action sequence. At the same time, I realize the argument could be made that Episode I (and the other prequels) lack emotional resonance and instead is all eye candy. While I could agree with that argument in some instances for the later prequels (the droid factory sequence in Episode II, for example), Episode I is the only film of the prequels that works thematically and emotionally on its own merits, without a reliance on knowing what is to come in the other films.

The real success of Phantom Menace is not the story of Anakin, but the relationship of Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan, their partnership, and the loss that sends Obi-Wan into a mentor role far before he is ready. It is this relationship that makes the final three-way lightsaber duel so epic (well, that and John Williams' "Duel of the Fates"), and leaves Phantom Menace with an impact all its own. The later prequels rely not only on the knowledge of what happened in Episode I, but on the events of the original trilogy and the sort of peripheral knowledge of Darth Vader's downfall. The Phantom Menace establishes the Star Wars Universe on a grander scale that the original trilogy was never able to do, due both to technological limitations and the story as it was being told.

Creepy puppet Yoda is an exception. He will never be welcome.

In addition, Episode I expands on one of, if not the central aspect of the Universe that had long been ignored up to that point cinematically: politics. Look, an evil Empire and an opposing Rebellion is really cool, but there needs to be a reason they are at odds aside from "because the Emperor is evil." Seemingly trivial things like the taxation of trade routes are indeed the seeds of war, and I love Phantom Menace for broadening the scope of the Star Wars Universe not just with Jedi and new creatures, but with a real, fault-ridden political system that is ultimately the cause of its own destruction. Palpatine's plan, as we come to learn, is actually pretty impressive: to use his power to manipulate the politicians into creating an Empire, essentially electing him as a dictator. However convoluted that plan becomes in later films, in Phantom Menace it's an interesting real-world twist on sci-fi politics.

It's also worth noting that Phantom Menace is, at least structurally, similar to A New Hope. It opens on a political mission, gets some unwitting passersby involved, gives a young kid a new outlook on life, results in a grand adventure and a battle or three, the mentor dies, and the rest of the cast is left to carry on. Whether or not you care about the characters beyond Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan is a different story, but thematically Phantom Menace operates on the same level as A New Hope does.

By now you're observing that I've avoided discussing the two big elephants in the room: midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks. Well, there's a reason. I'm fine with both of them. These are plot points that are less relevant to the thematic content that I think makes the movie so engaging. They are things that depend on your personal tastes.

Sebulba FTW!

I find Jar Jar far less annoying than C-3PO, and I think midichlorians serve the same purpose that politics do: they give an explanation to something that was only brushed over in the original films. Some could be fine with the Force just being "a living energy field," but I enjoy that there's a bit more to it than that. I do understand the critics of both, however, and it's something I expect no one will ever be able to agree on.

Whatever your thoughts on Phantom Menace, I urge you to try and put your personal feelings of "George Lucas somehow personally has it out for me" aside and give the movie a watch on its own merits, not in comparison to the films that came before it. It's a perfectly enjoyable action adventure that pulls its influence from A New Hope in a way none of the other prequels (or even Empire and Jedi) did.

Sure, it's got Jake "Pumpkinhead" Lloyd spouting drivel like "I'm a person and my name is Anakin," but it's also a vast exploration of a galaxy that we never thought we'd see again on screen, and has since given birth to even more, using the planets and races introduced in this film.

Oh, and one last thing, perhaps the ultimate nullifier: Darth f****ing Maul.

'Nuff said.

I'm sure there will be plenty of differing opinions, so please sound off in the Comments below! And just remember, the Internet doesn't have to be a wretched hive of scum and villainy; if you love the Phantom Menace, let your voice be heard.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/121/1218394p2.html
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Re: Why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was better than the original
« Reply #159 on: February 17, 2012, 03:30:47 pm »
I'm sure there will be plenty of differing opinions, so please sound off in the Comments below! And just remember, the Internet doesn't have to be a wretched hive of scum and villainy; if you love the Phantom Menace, let your voice be heard.

http://movies.ign.com/articles/121/1218394p2.html
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"Paranoia is a very comforting state of mind. If you think they're out to get you, it means you think you matter"

Jurgen! What is best in life?

Crush your enemies. See dem driven before you. Hear d'lamentations of der vimmen.