Topic: Our Attack - meaning people at the club now - not players you fancy signing

[outlaw_nas]

Its simple
last year we had suarez, sturridge and sterling as our main attacking players

and this season sturridge has been injured so only sterling really.

lallana has also just returned recently.
so let sturridge come back and lallana get match fit and we shall be okay

[garumn]

I think the main problem is a lack of movement off the ball. Last season we would always have 2-3 runners into space or creating space for others pretty much all of the time. This season it seems like there is at most 1 player not having the ball making runs when we are in possession.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Think we messed up in the summer really.

The biggest priority should have been to get the best replacement for Suarez as we could.  Balotelli was a punt and probably should have been the replacement for Aspas, competing with Sturridge and the Suarez replacement.  Instead we have Balotelli as first choice, and he is very unpredictable and inconsistent and Lambert, as back up a player who I think we should never have bought and Borini, who is not good enough.

The defense has always been an issue under Rodgers, the way he likes the team to play in such an attacking, expansive style.  But last season our attack was brilliant.  This season, I think our attack will be best when all of Sterling, Sturridge and Balotelli are on the pitch together, as shown against Spurs.  But when they aren't we could struggle, as we have so far.

I think we got our summer spending badly wrong in many ways.

[Fromola]

Think theres way, way, way too many judgements going on so far. Remember last season? Sterling is shit and has to go on loan. We cant score goals. We dont press. We wont get top 4. We dont play second halfs etc etc.

History seems to have been re-written that we were amazing all season but there was a lot of whining about various things and writing off of players notably Gerrard and Raheem.

We had two seasons last year. Before Tottenham 5-0 and after (or even the nadir of the Hull game just before). Before we were quite dull and insipid for a lot of games, and always tire in the second half, but Suarez and Sturridge were winning us games. After we were largely playing great football.

Now we're back to the dull football of pre-Spurs last season with the painfully laborious and immobile midfield of Lucas and Gerrard back again, like in the first half of last season. The absence of Suarez and Sturridge has made it worse offensively and unsurprisingly we still haven't improved one iota defensively since August 2012.

[anfieldforever2013]

When Sturridge returns we will be fine.

Balotelli/Sturridge/Sterling against Spuds was frightening at times. Lallana also comes back into the equation and he looks some player despite being unfit at the moment.

I'd like the club to address the issue in January regarding Borini and the progress Lambert makes up to that point.

[robgomm]

Amazed but the total writing off of summer. Nonsense. We've signed some really good players but because they aren't Suarez or like him we've apparently given up everything we ever knew attack-wise.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

When Sturridge returns we will be fine.

Balotelli/Sturridge/Sterling against Spuds was frightening at times.]

I think the thing is when you have spent over £100m+ in the summer, you should have cover for when we get injuries.  Doesn't look like we do for Sturridge and Balotelli as whenever either have played one their own this season, we have struggled. 

As I said when those three are all on the pitch, we'll probably do very well.  But we should really have cover and I don't think Lambert or Borini offer that and I'm not convinced Balotelli is good enough to be first choice for what we need.  Although when Sturridge is fit we'll have a better idea if he is to judge.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Amazed but the total writing off of summer. Nonsense. We've signed some really good players but because they aren't Suarez or like him we've apparently given up everything we ever knew attack-wise.

We have signed good players, but I think in the wrong areas for the most part.

[Snail]

I agree that things will look a lot better once Sturridge is back, but the problem there is that he doesn't stay fit.

[Angelius]

Agree both with Juan and Brentie have said about this.

In terms of continuing what we did best last season, the buys of Lallana, Markovic, Can, Moreno, and Manquillo all made a lot of sense. Juan's absolutely right that all of the attacking players in that group have had next to no pre-season. You're already starting to see an improvement in Lallana and I would bet that you'll start to see a similar improvement in Markovic too come November or December. Lambert, at that time, seemed like an opportunistic buy that made a lot of sense. Cheap, local, loves the club, has a track record of goals in the league, and providing a different dimension to our usual style of play. As devastating we were at most times last season, there were times we were crying out for a different option and Lambert provided that.

This is where the signing of Balotelli didn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a very good and talented player and like everyone around him, he will continue to improve in a red shirt. I don't think he's going to leave anytime soon too. But essentially for me, Balotelli is a much improved version of Lambert at this stage. Both, regardless of how much improvement comes about, are target men (talented ones at that) at the end of the day and cannot lead the line for Liverpool because of how we play and what has essentially made us successful since Rodgers came in. I think both Balotelli and Lambert will work very well with Sturridge and this is the only way this works going forward. As good as Sturridge is, the likes of Balotelli and Lambert will open spaces for him and this will allow our team to be more devastating as a whole. But as we've seen from the past few games, we can afford to be without Balotelli/Lambert for games much, much more than we can afford to be without Sturridge.

This is where I agree with Brentie (shudder) in that we should've gone balls to the wall to find a suitable second striker (and to be fair, Remy and Sanchez both made sense) for Sturridge rather than going for Balotelli when we had already bought Lambert. Unlike Lambert, it seemed like a bit of a panic buy considering there didn't seem to be many options in the market (or at least folks who were available in "our" market). This is the one place where the finger can be pointed that despite knowing that Suarez would leave and we'd have a fair bit of spare change, we didn't get an actual, appropriate striker replacement based on how we play and what made us successful. And it makes me sad.

But I do agree with Juan that we will only get better as the season progresses and definitely as Sturridge comes back but I also definitely agree with Brentie that Borini is just not good enough to fill in for Sturridge and we really need to get our shit together and try to find someone in January who works for us based on the way we play.

The title is probably already out of our hands now but if we have a January transfer window similar to when we got Sturridge and Coutinho (and we can just focus on getting a striker this time around), I think we can definitely take care of the top 4 again which should really be our focus considering the start to our season.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Lambert, at that time, seemed like an opportunistic buy that made a lot of sense. Cheap, local, loves the club, has a track record of goals in the league, and providing a different dimension to our usual style of play. As devastating we were at most times last season, there were times we were crying out for a different option and Lambert provided that.

I don't think it made any sense, other than he supported us, so it was a decision made on sentiment more than ability to be good enough for us or suit the way we play.  He could be a plan b, but a third choice striker, when we look best playing with two upfront, is going to be more than a plan b through a season, they have to play often and then it is a problem.  If he was 4th choice, I'd have little issue with it, but as direct back up, which he is ahead of Borini in the pecking order (or he was before the West Ham game and Borini isn't good enough either), then it is an issue and a big one.

I also didn't agree with the argument that we needed a plan b last season.  Our attack scored over 100 goals last season, the only match I think it could be argued we needed one was against Chelsea at home and even then I'm not sure bringing on Lambert would make sense against centre backs like Terry and Cahill, who would much prefer us to cross to him or have him hold it up, rather than play to feet with Sterling, Sturridge and a Suarez type who can hurt them with skill and movement.

I thought it was a really odd signing.   

[lindylou100]

We have signed good players, but I think in the wrong areas for the most part.

The players we've signed are good players and we now have a better overall squad than we did including 2 new fullbacks that we've been crying out for all these years. The problem has been finding a way to integrate them into the team given we have to rethink our whole attacking system now suarez is gone. Suarez can't be replaced, he is a one off and thats why barca paid so much for him despite some his less savory actions. It's pointless to suggest we should have when there isn't one player out there that you can legitimately say is comparable.

Liverpool need to adapt to make the most of the attacking players we do have, I think it's going to take time to do so. Balotelli is a gamble no doubt but with no other alternatives available for what we can afford, we need to roll with it.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

The players we've signed are good players and we now have a better overall squad

Goals win games and our attack is worse this season, now when we concede as many goals as we do under Rodgers - it is a big issue.

Suarez was always going to be tough to replace, but I don't think we did it very well and I think we spent heavily in some wrong positions.

[lindylou100]

Goals win games and our attack is worse this season, now when we concede as many goals as we do under Rodgers - it is a big issue.

Suarez was always going to be tough to replace, but I don't think we did it very well and I think we spend heavily in some wrong positions.

Of course it's worse, suarez was a striker, a midfielder, a playmaker all wrapped up in one awesome package. It's virtually impossible to find someone with all those qualities to replace him. The club must find a new way to play to make the most of what we have now. It's all very well saying we've done it badly but you haven't actually said how you'd do it differently.

[Twelfth Man]

Love Rickie, as fans we get the romance, but boy does our play seriously slow down when he gets the ball. A similar thing happens with Balotelli and his desire to drop deep and play like Peter Crouch, despite having speed if he could be bothered to turn the burners on. Last season, it was the fluidity of the attack that impressed most, Raheem, Sturridge and Luis, interchanged, ran defenders out of shape, creating space, and all done at lightening speed. That has to be Rodgers signature style of playing. Sanchez' missus preferred the London shops, so we were forced to adapt, still think Balotelli can be worked on, so that we get greater movement from him, we saw a bit of that versus Spurs where he was making good off-the-shoulder runs, but no one was looking for him. His hold-up play is good, drawing players in, the system will need to be adapted a little to make use of that, a little less fluid, but will allow others to make runs off him. Ultimately, we need to find another quick Luis type player and have a three-pronged attack, Origi could be the player, or maybe we need to look at that in January.

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

Of course it's worse, suarez was a striker, a midfielder, a playmaker all wrapped up in one awesome package. It's virtually impossible to find someone with all those qualities to replace him. The club must find a new way to play to make the most of what we have now. It's all very well saying we've done it badly but you haven't actually said how you'd do it differently.

I said I think we will look a very good team when Balotelli, Sturridge and Sterling all play together in the diamond formation.  But when we only play with one upfront, we lack goals in the side and Sturridge & Balotelli both suit having a partner alongside each other, as we have seen this season.  But we saw it last season with Sturridge, that he likes to roam often is a creator as much as a scorer.  I think we showed against Spurs that Sturridge can do the Suarez role floating and even Balotelli can, they can inter change.  But when either are missing, we don't have the players good enough to cover.  I really wanted Remy, but as we know the club pulled out on that deal, but Eto'o would have been much better than Lambert or Borini as well.  To name two examples.

I wouldn't have signed Lallana, but that's not to say he is a poor player, I just don't see him any better than Coutinho and I thought Suso or Ibe could have cover that role.  I do have high hopes for Markovic though, who I think when he settles will do well, but we might have to be patient with him.

I could go on about other signings I think we got wrong but they are defensively, and not for this thread, but spending so big on Moreno and Lovren, will have affected what we could spend on our strikers and for me we should have wanted at least three quality strikers this season, ideally four with the extra games and that we look much better with two upfront.

I think we'll get better as the season goes on.  But I think we have a battle to get top four, might be better in Europe than the league this season and when both Balotelli and Sturridge don't play in the same team, more so than Sterling, I think we might struggle more often than not.

[giveandgone]

I think the main problem is a lack of movement off the ball. Last season we would always have 2-3 runners into space or creating space for others pretty much all of the time. This season it seems like there is at most 1 player not having the ball making runs when we are in possession.

This is so true, the amount of time in the last few matches that Balloteli has dropped deep to pick up the ball, the opposition defending their penalty box and everyone is static in front of them. The only player willing to drive at their defence is Sterling and by then its too late for our players to pile into the box.

We definitely need players making more diagonal runs into the box to create a bit of chaos and space.. not sure why this hasn't been fixed yet!

[vagabond]

God forbid waiting a month or two before writing off Balotelli and the attack in general. After all, having seen our first choice attack together for all of 60 minutes is probably enough to make definitive judgements.

[shockwave_dave]

For me the confidence and understanding just isn't there.

I don't think it will be an issue in 3/4 months time.
Hopefully we'll see the players zipping the ball about then. The one touch at pace is what kills teams

[LFC UNTIL THE MANAGER IS NO LONGER DESERVING OF MY SYMPATHY]

God forbid waiting a month or two before writing off Balotelli and the attack in general. After all, having seen our first choice attack together for all of 60 minutes is probably enough to make definitive judgements.

and the judgement would be they looked very good.

The worry is when we don't have our first choice attack and when we haven't we have seen some more worrying signs, when we defend the way we do.

[Obviously]

Compared to last season i'd say there are a few things that make our attack worse this season.

1. Movement and formation

Our front 3 last season was Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez, all players that are versatile. They can all go in behind, go wide and go deep and get the ball and rotate positions. This makes it really difficult to defend against.

This season Suarez is gone and Sturridge has been injured. Sturridge is our best player when it comes to movement off the ball and exploiting space, and he is one of the few players we have that make those runs on a consistent basis.

Balotelli as a lone striker is going to deep for my liking, and makes the job for the opposition CBs way to easy. They get all the play in front of them and no threat in behind, which is what most CBs want. Lambert is also a player that is no threat in exploiting space. This also leaves Coutinho less effective since the space he wants the ball in is already occupied by the striker, and he can't use one of his strengths which is through balls. Borini has decent movement and runs in behind, which is one of the reasons he should probably play more. Balotelli should also develop his movement off the ball, though he's not the quickest he is fast enough to be a threat if the movement is right. Kind of like Suarez, not the fastest but fast enough to be a threat.

Henderson seems to be playing more of a holding role this season, which leaves him less effective. We need those runs from midfield, an example of what i mean below.

Jordan Henderson's off the ball running vs Hull City

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/GqMI8dB13Dc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/GqMI8dB13Dc</a>

Gerrard is also being marked a lot more this season than he was last. When he was moved back last season he was really effective, but now he's at times being man marked(Agbonlahor vs Villa). We also don't have Suarez anymore as our main man and a outlet, so marking Gerrard stops our flow of play.

About 3.30 into this video is the MNF analysis of Gerrard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiuKZHR8lBg

2. Relation

When it really clicked in our team last season they had played together for a really long time. You could really tell that SSS moved together like a unit, they switched positions and had a really good understanding. This takes time to develop. In sports psychology you have different models of team dynamics. One of them has 4 stages, forming, storming, norming, performing. Last season we were at the performing stage, which is were you want to be. But introducing so many new players has set us a step or two back, but with time and good leadership we will be back to performing pretty soon.

There is also a model which measures the productivity of the team. Actual productivity = potential productivity - losses attributable to faulty group processes. There are two kinds of losses, motivation and coordination. The coordination is where we are lacking right now, and is why were performing badly against teams with lower potential productivity than us, but also lower in losses due to coordination and motivation.

3. Pace of the ball

We are also playing too slow and moving the ball at a low tempo, this was also a problem in Rodgers first season here. We had the ball a lot, but struggled to create chances. This leads me to believe there is a lack of coordination and understanding in the team. Once the players develop their understanding and their roles in the team, and they are able to do what Rodgers want from them this will improve.

My solutions:
1: Develop the understanding between players and tactical understanding
2: More players attacking space and not wanting the ball at their feet (especially front line and midfielders)
3: Higher tempo
4: Find a way to make Gerrard more effective or playing a different way

We also need to fulfill the potential of our wide areas. Instead of crosses from out wide we need to get them into positions like Enrique for Susos goal against Boro. Kind of like how Man City attack with their full backs, with Moreno and Manquillo we have that option now.   Crosses from out wide are mostly useless, but get inside the opposition box. Thats were crosses can be really effective.

Opposition teams are also defending deep against us at times, and we need to improve and find a way to break down these teams. Suarez could do it with his brilliance, now we need to find another way.

We have a lot of potential in the team, and when we start to fulfill that potential we will be really good. Our attack carried the team last season, when its not good enough to do that at the moment we're struggling to get results because our defense isn't good enough.

[MazzaKopter]

Our attack like a fine wine will get better with age. Mmmmmmmm tasty.

[The Infamous_LFC]

Balotelli drops deep and plays like Peter Crouch linking up play because teams play a very deep line against us opposed to a high line which Balotelli thrives on...

[liverressie]

Pretty much spot on and what I've been saying.

We need a quick, mobile third choice striker. Lambert and Borini clearly do not fit the mould. We should have gone for a Luis Muriel/Loic Remy player.

Agree for this. I still believe there are nothing wrong for the signing of Balo. You cannot find anyone with the same class in the market for GBP16mil. Besides, I am impressed by the passion and the attitude by Balo so far. Although he is no Luis Suarez, he runs a lot more than I thought. He works very hard to link up play and he is not a static player people mentioned.

Our problem is we do not have another mobile striker after Sturridge's injured. Borini is a hard working kid but he is nowhere near the standards. Just look at how many times he scored in open play in PL then you will know what I am saying. People arguing that he play out wide in Sunderland and there has little services available to him last season. However, there are plenty of strikers or wide players scored a lot in open play in the relegation team. The fact is we need a more classy one to rotate with Sturridge. 

[Melbred]

Our attack, and season, pretty much rely on a fit and firing Sturridge; and to a lesser extent, Sterling. It's going to be a big ask to be challenging this year.

[ThePoolMan]

Think we messed up in the summer really.

The biggest priority should have been to get the best replacement for Suarez as we could.  Balotelli was a punt and probably should have been the replacement for Aspas, competing with Sturridge and the Suarez replacement.  Instead we have Balotelli as first choice, and he is very unpredictable and inconsistent and Lambert, as back up a player who I think we should never have bought and Borini, who is not good enough.

The defense has always been an issue under Rodgers, the way he likes the team to play in such an attacking, expansive style.  But last season our attack was brilliant.  This season, I think our attack will be best when all of Sterling, Sturridge and Balotelli are on the pitch together, as shown against Spurs.  But when they aren't we could struggle, as we have so far.

I think we got our summer spending badly wrong in many ways.

I reckon the destabilising effect of losing Suarez was always going to hit us badly thanks to the choices made by Rodgers and the committee. The forwards we were linked with after Sanchez refused to sign for us have been completely unlike Suarez. Remy is more like Sturridge-lite, Falcao certainly does not play like Suarez, Bony is even further from that.

Balotelli of course is far from being anything like Suarez.

The player I thought Rodgers would have tried to sign would have been Isco as the nearest to Suarez who is remotely available, but there was no news of any bid for him

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

Everything we do at the minute is pass it back into midfield. Centre backs pass it 2 yards into midfield only to get it back. Midfield pass it between themselves going nowhere.  The ball goes into the forward who drops deep into midfield inevitably giving it back to midfield. The rightback get it and constantly feeds the ball back into midfield.

It's so easy to play against. Gone are the days of stretching teams and creating space we simply are a one dimensional team.

[adamski29]

You know what it reminds me of?

End of 2010/11. Kenny has a wonderful formula of Suarez alone up front surrounded by mobility in Maxi, Meireles and Kuyt that are all interchanging positions. We play wonderful football, twat teams and win alot of games.

Come the Summer, we change the blueprint. Try to fit in Carroll, buy Downing, Henderson and Adam and completely change our style of play. The result? We go backwards.

That's what it feels like we've done this Summer. We swapped the most hyperactive center forward in world football with a static target man in Mario Balotelli. To add to that, we buy another target man (the Scouse Erik Meijer). We're left with 2 static forwards and one mobile injury prone striker as well as another forward who we did everything possible to get rid of.

All it takes is simple planning, common sense and good scouting. Sadly, those 3 elements seem to have no place at LFC.

You look at our transfer dealings since Jan 13 and it's scary how illogical they've been. We signed a keeper in Mignolet who is not great with his feet and doesn't command his area for a manager who likes his keeper to be a footballer and a leader. We signed a forward in Aspas who was nowhere near strong enough for the league, a kid in Alberto who's nowhere near mobile enough for the league. We then sign a center forwards in Lambert and Balotelli whose styles are complete anathema to ours and a center back in Lovren who has had 4 good months in 3 years and prefers playing on the left (where you already have 2 left sided center backs including one that cost a bomb).

They're all square pegs in round holes. Lallana, Markovic, Origi, Moreno and maybe Can make complete sense. There may be question marks about quaility/price, but the reasoning is fine, they suit how we play. Sakho too. The rest are just ridiculous decisions.

I said this exact thing in another thread (mabey it was this one) but not quite as comprehensively. Yes is is very like that.

Some of Rodgers /committee signings reveal questionable reasoning. Some I think can be identified as players Rodgers wanted and others are committee picks. If you asked me Lallana and Lovren from this summer where Rodgers preferred options the rest mabey committee. Mabey we ended up with Balotelli cause they couldn't agree on striker options.
I know fuck all other than to conjecture like everyone else. But not for the first time we are left with not adequate striking options after a long summer window.

[adamski29]

Instead of worrying about our attack let's worry first about our shitty defense , we are in the CL ffs , do you think this defense will stand a chance against real if we can't defend set pieces properly , seriously this is has to be the most chocking defense we have since 15 years of supporting this club

Let's learn first how to defend then worry about how to score cause you don't need to create million chances just to score a few ones , maybe if we can score one then tighten things up and don't concede stupid silly goals our attack will be fine , chelsea for example won so many games just cause their defense , plus griezman was available anyway yet we choose to overpay a £20m on a player who's afraid to shoot in front of the goal .

I think we are going to leak goals with a Rodgers team no matter what way we set up to attack. If that is the case then we may as well go back to out scoring the opposition. It would be more fun if nothing else.

[SquirrelandGman]

Feels like 2009-2010 again.

Just when we thought we was out.. THEY PULL US BACK IN.

[Cid]

We lose one of the top 3 strikers in the world and failed to sign any dangerous attackers to fill the void.  Nobody could replace Suarez but we needed to at least look for someone who could play a similar role.

I don't think we signed bad players but it's starting to look like we signed the wrong sort.  With sturridge out all we have are big men who play with their back to goal and the entire team last season was set up to find and make runs in and behind.

[Melbred]

After Sanchez, it was a pretty strange list of targets we were after. Sanchez made sense, Remy made sense - Lambert and Balotelli don't really fit with how we played last season.

Still think the latter could come good, but we are essentially rebuilding again and learning to play a different way. Worry is that it could take some time for it all to click.

[Upinsmoke]

I dunno. I don't want people to buy into the stigma of sky sports and bt about Balotelli being lazy and not arsed. He worked his arse off today, seriously did. We tried to get bodies into him to support as well. Think he'll find more room with a strike partner like danny (i.e spurs) than being a lone striker.

[indlfc]

Feels like 2009-2010 again.

Just when we thought we was out.. THEY PULL US BACK IN.

More like 2011-12

[SquirrelandGman]

Sad thing is balo reminds me more of Andy Carroll.. And I've been trying to delete any memory of him ever playing for us.

Remember how Carroll chased after players and won tackles and it was considered a highlight.

Remember how he held up the ball and didnt look for a pass only to win a free kick and people called it good play?

De Ja fuckin vu

[indlfc]

I dunno. I don't want people to buy into the stigma of sky sports and bt about Balotelli being lazy and not arsed. He worked his arse off today, seriously did. We tried to get bodies into him to support as well. Think he'll find more room with a strike partner like danny (i.e spurs) than being a lone striker.

What i want to see from a striker is making runs bring others into the game. Not come back to defend and leave no outlet upfront.

[SquirrelandGman]

More like 2011-12

I was thinking of how we almost won the league and didnt build on it like 09.

But But yes the way we played was exactly as u said as I posted above on carroll

[Upinsmoke]

What i want to see from a striker is making runs bring others into the game. Not come back to defend and leave no outlet upfront.

I think everyone is judging mario against luis, i feel thats unfair.

[indlfc]

I was thinking of how we almost won the league and didnt build on it like 09.

But But yes the way we played was exactly as u said as I posted above on carroll

Situation was similar, but the reasons was different.

This year reasons are same and playing style is carbon copy.

[mkferdy]

After Sanchez, it was a pretty strange list of targets we were after. Sanchez made sense, Remy made sense - Lambert and Balotelli don't really fit with how we played last season.

Still think the latter could come good, but we are essentially rebuilding again and learning to play a different way. Worry is that it could take some time for it all to click.

Agree with this. Our striker signings didn't make sense. Makes me wonder if the plan was to switch to a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation in the hope we will be able to be more solid or if the signings were opportunistic.

Whatever the strategy we are where we are and it's going to take a lot of time to come up with a new style of playing. We need to keep our cool and not panic like spurs did last year.