Topic: Liverpool's Defence

[Trendisnotdestiny]

You're reaching now

He turned and faced the ball, and turned his back on the man. That was the mistake. Not failing to anticipate the backheel. The backheel is pointless without the run. First rule of penetration combinations - the run dictates the pass. It was just a silly mistake from Lucas to turn and watch the ball and not split his vision between the ball and Clyne. By the time he figured it out, it was too late. Simple mistakes, major consequences - much like most goals conceded.

The main points are - will those players make those same mistakes again?

According to the RAWK Round Table and DanA ----> our ability to track runners has been a source of a large percentage of goals yielded last year (60-70%).

Some of the other salient issues to this goal are:

1) CB shape (pressure, cover and balance).  Cover was lost and led to an imbalance
2) GK - fixing the shape as Migs sees everything in front of him; its his job to communicate with defenders to stymie an attack
3) Communication in the area (Stevie, Sterling, or Glen) had a view of Clyne but were ball-watching.

We might remember another piece too... that we were under pressure for about 5 minutes and this type of pressure can lead to some group ball-watching or something similar like a failure to react to a run.   Fatigue plays a part in this, but probably not as much as one might think.  This is more about making a decision, as PoP said -----> as soon as Lucas' back is turned, he has lost vision of the play and becomes an observer of the ball only. 

[GrkStav]

According to the RAWK Round Table and DanA ----> our ability to track runners has been a source of a large percentage of goals yielded last year (60-70%).

Some of the other salient issues to this goal are:

1) CB shape (pressure, cover and balance).  Cover was lost and led to an imbalance
2) GK - fixing the shape as Migs sees everything in front of him; its his job to communicate with defenders to stymie an attack
3) Communication in the area (Stevie, Sterling, or Glen) had a view of Clyne but were ball-watching.

We might remember another piece too... that we were under pressure for about 5 minutes and this type of pressure can lead to some group ball-watching or something similar like a failure to react to a run.   Fatigue plays a part in this, but probably not as much as one might think.  This is more about making a decision, as PoP said -----> as soon as Lucas' back is turned, he has lost vision of the play and becomes an observer of the ball only.

I am going to say it again: Yes, Lucas ought to have maintained relatively frequent visual contact with Clyne by doing the swivel head. But it was the effing "let's watch Tadic and the magic-ball show" charade! At one point, 4 players (Lucas, Lovren, Johnson and Sterling) are all focused on Tadic and the ball in almost a perfect square. You know who had an unobstructed by anything (or anything he had to do and did not do) view of Clyne's run? Gerrard and Skrtel. Gerrard moves very little, if at all, and is ALSO focused on Tadic and the ball, whilst Skrtel marks space as a CCB between Manquillo who's marking Pelle' and Lovren who's moved out to mark Tadic tightly as he 'posts up'.

The guy from SFC who took the throw-in stays within a yard of the touchline the entire time. Sterling stays within 5-10 yards of him during the entire team, contributing the square root of eff-all to defending.

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503011055568568320/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503012075723960324/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503013449639555072/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503014788239093760/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503018016754241536/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503019438241628161/photo/1


Lovren grabs a hold of the back of the shirt of Tadic and doesn't realize he's played the magic back-pass (a diagonal one. to boot) until it's way too late.

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503022354339872768/photo/1


For the immediately previous play by SFC, the one that led to the throw-in that started the play that led to their goal, Lovren had followed Tadic all the way to near the half-way line:

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503005673295056896/photo/1

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503009252684742656/photo/1

Anyway, this is a picture that may indicate who Manquillo and Johnson thought was most at fault:

https://twitter.com/GrkStav/status/503016068252569600/photo/1

They're not looking at Lucas exasperated, are they?

[rayted_are]

Liverpool vs Southampton. (17.08.2014) Monday Night Football Goals Analysis.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Wj8CWBpRYv0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Wj8CWBpRYv0</a>


Twitter - https://twitter.com/rayted_are

[Upinsmoke]

So Carragher who had been a defender with Liverpool for 15 odd years, and knows what he's talking about, thinks Skrtel should do better.

Weird that.

[PhaseOfPlay]

So Carragher who had been a defender with Liverpool for 15 odd years, and knows what he's talking about, thinks Skrtel should do better.

Weird that.

Who is saying differently, though?

[GrkStav]

So Carragher who had been a defender with Liverpool for 15 odd years, and knows what he's talking about, thinks Skrtel should do better.

Weird that.

Practically everyone who's taken the time to really analyze it has apportioned some culpability for the goal on Skrtel.

So, nothing weird about Carragher's, a CB himself, focus on Skrtel's share.

[the_red_pill]

This is what Rodgers had to say about the defense after the Balotelli-chat:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/24/mario-balotelli-daniel-sturridge-liverpool-brendan-rodgers

“They haven’t had to add too many because their squad is so strong. I had nothing but pride in how we played and how we were. As for conclusions, defensively we needed to be better, not in terms of organisation but in terms of errors. We made too many individual mistakes. If we can cut that out and still look to retain that efficiency going forward we will be a threat to most teams.”

Just as some have been saying- there isn't a problem with the overall defensive organization, it's the one-on-one mistakes that we need to cut out. Lovren and Manquillo has shown they have the ability to minimise those mistakes- in fact I think we looked rather comfortable defensively in the first half against Southampton. We kept them at bay too easily and there was a marked contrast- for me at least- as opposed to last season. Once our intensity wore off, we started to look a bit rattled.

[socrates the sophist]

This is what Rodgers had to say about the defense after the Balotelli-chat:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/24/mario-balotelli-daniel-sturridge-liverpool-brendan-rodgers

Just as some have been saying- there isn't a problem with the overall defensive organization, it's the one-on-one mistakes that we need to cut out. Lovren and Manquillo has shown they have the ability to minimise those mistakes- in fact I think we looked rather comfortable defensively in the first half against Southampton. We kept them at bay too easily and there was a marked contrast- for me at least- as opposed to last season. Once our intensity wore off, we started to look a bit rattled.

I have to say I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the way the video has been analyzed Daniel Rhodes on many of the goals.
To me the problem is mainly with the organization. Even by the standards of Rhodes, to concede 18 goals out of 50 due to organizational problems is actually a huge amount. That is close to half of the goals conceded!

The main issue for me is the way we set our backline to play off the ball. We do fine with the ball. As soon as we lose the ball our forwards press well (midfield can do better but are fine) but our defenders are so far away from midfield. Once the opposition breaks past that first wave of opposition, we have our defense retreating into our penalty box, waiting for our midfielders to track back.

A goal like the one scored by Stoke in part 2 is also a good example? Why are any of the defenders as well as Gerard and Henderson in the penalty area? Defensive line on the edge of the penalty area (where Henderson was), Gerard and Henderson plug the huge gap in the middle of the threading area. Mignolet sweeps any ball in behind the defense into the penalty area and problem solved.

The same with Charlie Adam's goal; Gerard loses the ball and Skrtel runs towards the penalty area. Go challenge Adam (he is not the most gifted technically). If he dummies you foul him just like Chelsea defenders do and problem solved. Going up to meet the opposition also gives your midfielders a chance to press from the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs0IemkVKs

Barcelona were the best team during that time at pressing. Look at 1:36; Now that is exactly how our forwards and midfielders press for periods of any match. But our defenders are never THAT high at any period of a match (which they should). Puyol and Abidal are in Atletico's half, compared to our defensive line which is always in our half. We didn't see Puyol and Abidal sprint towards their penalty area and let the opposition come on to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipiybRLqZc

Look at Germany against Algeria. Germany also play a high line. Defenders are also on the midfield line and don't just sprint back to the penalty area. This is what prompts Algeria to play it long. And if it the ball drops in behind the defense? No problem, keeper is there to sweep. You see Suleimani in the first chance he is all alone but he has absolutely no chance to do anything with the ball. Neuer pushed to the side and he is the only Algerian player in their half. It looks dangerous, but its perfectly safe.

So in my humble opinion we can talk about Skrtel and Sahko making mistakes all we want but if we do not change the way we defense to suit our attack we will concede the a similar amount of goals no matter who is defending.

[incredibleL4ever]

According to the RAWK Round Table and DanA ----> our ability to track runners has been a source of a large percentage of goals yielded last year (60-70%).

Some of the other salient issues to this goal are:

1) CB shape (pressure, cover and balance).  Cover was lost and led to an imbalance
2) GK - fixing the shape as Migs sees everything in front of him; its his job to communicate with defenders to stymie an attack
3) Communication in the area (Stevie, Sterling, or Glen) had a view of Clyne but were ball-watching.

We might remember another piece too... that we were under pressure for about 5 minutes and this type of pressure can lead to some group ball-watching or something similar like a failure to react to a run.   Fatigue plays a part in this, but probably not as much as one might think.  This is more about making a decision, as PoP said -----> as soon as Lucas' back is turned, he has lost vision of the play and becomes an observer of the ball only. 

I don't understand why there is a problem with tracking runners.  Look at American Football or Rugby Union.  They essentially mark one-on-one but when a player breaks a tackle they all move in unison to cover.  A football version of this is what we need.  In football we often see midfielders playing the ball around in little triangles while the opposition chase the ball and mark space.  Why they just don't mark the play is a mystery to me.  Last week's game was a great example of this for us....how not to mark.  For the goal Lucas was totally ball watching and left the Southampton runner in behind him.  It was so simple to defend but almost cost us the game.
At some stage another method of playing will emerge which involves tracking players more than marking space.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I don't understand why there is a problem with tracking runners.  Look at American Football or Rugby Union.  They essentially mark one-on-one but when a player breaks a tackle they all move in unison to cover.  A football version of this is what we need.  In football we often see midfielders playing the ball around in little triangles while the opposition chase the ball and mark space.  Why they just don't mark the play is a mystery to me.  Last week's game was a great example of this for us....how not to mark.  For the goal Lucas was totally ball watching and left the Southampton runner in behind him.  It was so simple to defend but almost cost us the game.
At some stage another method of playing will emerge which involves tracking players more than marking space.

Because of the offside law. At the point of the snap in NFL, and in Rugby Union, he offside line is the ball. You can't go beyond it to receiver the ball until certain conditions are met, and even then the ball is still effectively the offside line (can't pass forward once you're ahead of the line of scrimmage, or pass forward at all in Rugby). In football, the offside line is the second last defensive player. So there is a lot more scope to stretch the play. That's why the sweeper system with man-marking was abandoned - it was too inefficient and too easily stretched. That is the general reason.

Having said that, between the two offside lines, there is scope for some degree of marking, and especially in midfield. Really, the mixed-marking defensive method makes defending principles, from back to front, possible to organise in a zonal (def) - marking (mid) - zonal (fwd) arrangement. It comes down to a matter of preference for the manager then.

It's becoming more obvious now that Rodgers prefers almost pure zonal defending, which leaves a lot of gaps for runners between the lines (which makes playing against Chelsea difficult, because Mourinho's entire attacking philosophy is built on movement between these lines). The problem with this, is that we can fail to track runners from midfield. The first solution is extreme compactness to the ball. But this means we can't transition quickly or open out as quickly to create space for possession, which affects our passing game (or the one Rodgers prefers). The second solution is reactive speed in midfield and defence. The midfield pair we had against Southampton are lacking in this reactive speed. I suspect a central midfield three with Gerrard and two of Henderson/Allen/Can would have enough reactive speed to deal with these runs between the lines. The reason the Gerrard and Lucas pairing doesn't work effectively is first of all physical, rather than down to ability (they both obviously have ability). The more athletic our midfield becomes, the better we'll get at closing down the zones in midfield, I think (and hope).

[PhaseOfPlay]

I have to say I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the way the video has been analyzed Daniel Rhodes on many of the goals.
To me the problem is mainly with the organization. Even by the standards of Rhodes, to concede 18 goals out of 50 due to organizational problems is actually a huge amount. That is close to half of the goals conceded!

The main issue for me is the way we set our backline to play off the ball. We do fine with the ball. As soon as we lose the ball our forwards press well (midfield can do better but are fine) but our defenders are so far away from midfield. Once the opposition breaks past that first wave of opposition, we have our defense retreating into our penalty box, waiting for our midfielders to track back.

A goal like the one scored by Stoke in part 2 is also a good example? Why are any of the defenders as well as Gerard and Henderson in the penalty area? Defensive line on the edge of the penalty area (where Henderson was), Gerard and Henderson plug the huge gap in the middle of the threading area. Mignolet sweeps any ball in behind the defense into the penalty area and problem solved.

The same with Charlie Adam's goal; Gerard loses the ball and Skrtel runs towards the penalty area. Go challenge Adam (he is not the most gifted technically). If he dummies you foul him just like Chelsea defenders do and problem solved. Going up to meet the opposition also gives your midfielders a chance to press from the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs0IemkVKs

Barcelona were the best team during that time at pressing. Look at 1:36; Now that is exactly how our forwards and midfielders press for periods of any match. But our defenders are never THAT high at any period of a match (which they should). Puyol and Abidal are in Atletico's half, compared to our defensive line which is always in our half. We didn't see Puyol and Abidal sprint towards their penalty area and let the opposition come on to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipiybRLqZc

Look at Germany against Algeria. Germany also play a high line. Defenders are also on the midfield line and don't just sprint back to the penalty area. This is what prompts Algeria to play it long. And if it the ball drops in behind the defense? No problem, keeper is there to sweep. You see Suleimani in the first chance he is all alone but he has absolutely no chance to do anything with the ball. Neuer pushed to the side and he is the only Algerian player in their half. It looks dangerous, but its perfectly safe.

So in my humble opinion we can talk about Skrtel and Sahko making mistakes all we want but if we do not change the way we defense to suit our attack we will concede the a similar amount of goals no matter who is defending.

Very good post. Well worth reading. The only thing I will say though, is that it's very difficult to press like Barcelona in English football simply because there are so many direct transitions in the game compared to Spain, that the high line will be caught out more often than not. There is more of a willingness to play the random, first-time long ball in behind in England than there is in Spain. There's a reason why "smaller" teams like Rafa's Valencia and Simeone's Atletico have their success - it's generally because they break the Spanish model and play more direct than the other teams, and catch out any team that wants to press, or teams that want to establish position first before they look to create a chance (as most Spanish teams do). In other words, they are willing to play a lot more in transition than most Spanish teams are used to, and they are able to catch a lot of teams out that way. So comparisons to Barca's pressing game are incomplete, simply because they are rarely faced with any number of games in a season where the ball will spend a lot of time in the air going forward, which is the simplest way to beat the press.

[Robinred]

Some very well considered contributions.

All of which lead me to pose a question:

Why does B.R seem to have discarded centre-back combinations that could justifiably be described as "front foot" (which would seem to negate many of the perceived problems we have defensively) in favour of a pairing that includes Martin Skrtel?

It's an honest question.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Some very well considered contributions.

All of which lead me to pose a question:

Why does B.R seem to have discarded centre-back combinations that could justifiably be described as "front foot" (which would seem to negate many of the perceived problems we have defensively) in favour of a pairing that includes Martin Skrtel?

It's an honest question.

It's a genuine puzzle. It could be just a coaching thing - Skrtel works damn hard in training, and Rodgers likes that and wants to reward it. It doesn't make much tactical sense though, if we're going to play a back four and a pressing midfield, to have one player whose natural inclination is to drop off.

[fowlermagic]

Some very well considered contributions.

All of which lead me to pose a question:

Why does B.R seem to have discarded centre-back combinations that could justifiably be described as "front foot" (which would seem to negate many of the perceived problems we have defensively) in favour of a pairing that includes Martin Skrtel?

It's an honest question.

I guess you have to look at what he brings to the team and see if it outweighs the issues of a Skrtel type in the backline. He is probably ranked in the top 5 central defenders in the league for aerial duels and key clearances/blocks while not a bad passer of the ball either as last season his pass completion percentage was 90%. His threat in attack for a defender is probably in the top 3 of the league if not the best at the moment but of course he does throw in the odd own goal or two Its going to be an interesting season to see if he pairs up well with Lovren, on paper they look pretty well balanced but early days as we have a lot of new personnel in defence to chose from.

[steveeastend]

I have to say I disagree with that assessment. I also disagree with the way the video has been analyzed Daniel Rhodes on many of the goals.
To me the problem is mainly with the organization. Even by the standards of Rhodes, to concede 18 goals out of 50 due to organizational problems is actually a huge amount. That is close to half of the goals conceded!

The main issue for me is the way we set our backline to play off the ball. We do fine with the ball. As soon as we lose the ball our forwards press well (midfield can do better but are fine) but our defenders are so far away from midfield. Once the opposition breaks past that first wave of opposition, we have our defense retreating into our penalty box, waiting for our midfielders to track back.

A goal like the one scored by Stoke in part 2 is also a good example? Why are any of the defenders as well as Gerard and Henderson in the penalty area? Defensive line on the edge of the penalty area (where Henderson was), Gerard and Henderson plug the huge gap in the middle of the threading area. Mignolet sweeps any ball in behind the defense into the penalty area and problem solved.

The same with Charlie Adam's goal; Gerard loses the ball and Skrtel runs towards the penalty area. Go challenge Adam (he is not the most gifted technically). If he dummies you foul him just like Chelsea defenders do and problem solved. Going up to meet the opposition also gives your midfielders a chance to press from the back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs0IemkVKs

Barcelona were the best team during that time at pressing. Look at 1:36; Now that is exactly how our forwards and midfielders press for periods of any match. But our defenders are never THAT high at any period of a match (which they should). Puyol and Abidal are in Atletico's half, compared to our defensive line which is always in our half. We didn't see Puyol and Abidal sprint towards their penalty area and let the opposition come on to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipiybRLqZc

Look at Germany against Algeria. Germany also play a high line. Defenders are also on the midfield line and don't just sprint back to the penalty area. This is what prompts Algeria to play it long. And if it the ball drops in behind the defense? No problem, keeper is there to sweep. You see Suleimani in the first chance he is all alone but he has absolutely no chance to do anything with the ball. Neuer pushed to the side and he is the only Algerian player in their half. It looks dangerous, but its perfectly safe.

So in my humble opinion we can talk about Skrtel and Sahko making mistakes all we want but if we do not change the way we defense to suit our attack we will concede the a similar amount of goals no matter who is defending.

Top post mate!

[Robinred]

Thanks for the responses.

Yorky has elsewhere flagged a possibly watershed moment last season when the far-from-rapid Soldado made Danny Agger suddenly look very slow. Others have suggested that Sakho was a "committee" - but not a B.R - purchase (just conjecture I know). Coates and Ilori both have time on their side. However, Coates appears to have a similar problem to Agger: convincing B.R that being an accomplished footballer compensates for a lack of pace.

Toure? Beyond puzzling...

So it's possible that for now, Skrtel's deficiencies are considered the least problematic to accommodate, and he gets the gig by default.

It will be very interesting to see whether one or more of those deemed surplus gets moved on in the coming week. If not, it can surely only be because there are no realistic offers.

[Hayer]

Rodgers lacks extreme nous in how to organise a defence.

Worry for us when we play an elite CL team.

[Zaffarious]

i disagree with carras analysis of that second goal. surely when lovren pushes out, skrtel, who can see him and moreno further up the pitch ahs to push out and take glen johnson with him??

for me that second goal is more skrtel and johnsons fault than lovrens (assuming the team is instructed to push out and squeeze the space)

[Fromola]

How much have we spent on defenders now? It can't still be a personnel issue if we're going to keep giving bad goals away every week.

Maybe time to look at getting in a defensive coach if we can't sort it.

[rawcusk8]

Pretty damning report from the lads in the Sky Sports studio. Some of the goals we are conceding are pretty woeful and it seems lessons are not being learnt from previous errors. Do we have a defensive coach? The better teams will continue to punish us. Just too open against big teams, think Rodgers could do with taking a page out of the Rafa and Mourinho book when we are away to the bigger teams.

[Anywhichwayicant]

i disagree with carras analysis of that second goal. surely when lovren pushes out, skrtel, who can see him and moreno further up the pitch ahs to push out and take glen johnson with him??

for me that second goal is more skrtel and johnsons fault than lovrens (assuming the team is instructed to push out and squeeze the space)

  Laughable stuff.


Lovren is the LEADER OF THE DEFENCE.

Lovren was culpable for two of the three goals tonight. Accept it, hope he improves in futures games, and move on.

[Anywhichwayicant]

How much have we spent on defenders now? It can't still be a personnel issue if we're going to keep giving bad goals away every week.

Maybe time to look at getting in a defensive coach if we can't sort it.

Said it last season, it's systemic.

[Scott0908]

awful

[Fromola]

Laughable stuff.


Lovren is the LEADER OF THE DEFENCE.

Lovren was culpable for two of the three goals tonight. Accept it, hope he improves in futures games, and move on.

The idea that the problem with the defence was not having a leader was a load of crap. It won't change anything.

[Funky_Gibbons]

How much have we spent on defenders now? It can't still be a personnel issue if we're going to keep giving bad goals away every week.

Maybe time to look at getting in a defensive coach if we can't sort it.

So a new left back playing with a new centre back in a new team and they're supposed to be churning out clean sheets straight away?

The defensive coach suggestion is laughable.

[Anywhichwayicant]

The idea that the problem with the defence was not having a leader was a load of crap. It won't change anything.

Totally agree mate.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Laughable stuff.


Lovren is the LEADER OF THE DEFENCE.

Lovren was culpable for two of the three goals tonight. Accept it, hope he improves in futures games, and move on.

Skrtel and Johnson dropped deep and played everyone on-side.

All of the back five made mistakes for goals.

[Fromola]

So a new left back playing with a new centre back in a new team and they're supposed to be churning out clean sheets straight away?

The defensive coach suggestion is laughable.

Whenever the opposition attack us they look like scoring and usually get gifted goals. Southampton should have had at last three (missed two sitters and an unbelievable save).

It's a systemic problem. We'll keep making mistakes with the way we set up and with the lack of protection the defence get.

[laximaginationzzz]

awful

This. We're a shambles at times.

We say it year after year, but nothing improves.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Whenever the opposition attack us they look like scoring and usually get gifted goals. Southampton should have had at last three (missed two sitters and an unbelievable save).

It's a systemic problem. We'll keep making mistakes with the way we set up and with the lack of protection the defence get.

We had City well under control until that first goal which is an individual mistake by a new player. That was their first shot on target after 40-minutes.

Tactically we were fine until Moreno tries to clear with the wrong foot.

[lfcmaster]

do we need a defence coach ?

[Passmaster Molby]

When your defence plays as 4 individuals rather than 1 unit then its always going to get torn apart. We have to do more work on that back 4 working as a unit - there is a fucking reason managers like Rafa and Jose work so much on the back 4 working together.

For over 2 seasons now we have watched our defence playing all over the shop and its about time Rodgers sucked his pride up and started working HARD on that defence. Its his one failing as a coach since he's been here and he needs to sort it out now other wise it will cost us AGAIN.

[bigbear]

Said it last season, it's systemic.

How was the first goal systemic ?

Lovren was out of position initially and Moreno was hesitant. 2 mistakes.

Second goal was perhaps more systemic, but I still think it's about individual positioning on the left side of the defence.

Third goal was poor positioning from Lovren from a side that was trying to push on at 2-0 down and had switched off after a break.

Not sure it's systemic but I do think there is a problem between the 2 centre halves instinct re attacking a ball and squeezing the play.

[Fromola]

We had City well under control until that first goal which is an individual mistake by a new player. That was their first shot on target after 40-minutes.

Tactically we were fine until Moreno tries to clear with the wrong foot.

First half we looked okay but that first goal was a clusterfuck. Gerrard doesn't track his man (consequence of not having a DM), Lovren goes walkabouts and then Moreno doesn't get his foot through the ball.

Then in the second half Moreno's left completely exposed down the left, and Lovren, and we're just picked apart.

[Austin Powers]

At the very least it SEEMS like it could be fairly easy to rectify. The issue is why hasn't it been sorted already?

[Funky_Gibbons]

First half we looked okay but that first goal was a clusterfuck. Gerrard doesn't track his man (consequence of not having a DM), Lovren goes walkabouts and then Moreno doesn't get his foot through the ball.

Then in the second half Moreno's left completely exposed down the left, and Lovren, and we're just picked apart.

Any errors for the first goal by any other player is minute compared to the glaring error by Moreno, that is not systematic but an individual error by a new player. If that mistake doesn't happen we likely continue to play like that for the rest of the game rather than having to chase.

[SquirrelandGman]

Points points points.

"Its lovrens fault."

"No its obviously skrtel and johnson duh."

"Morenos shit.. should have gone for bertrand."

"Gerrards too old.Never a defensive mid in a million years. Lucas in."

"Rodgers is the main culprit.. no change tactically in terms of defence from last season."


Did i miss anything out?

[Fromola]

At the very least it SEEMS like it could be fairly easy to rectify. The issue is why hasn't it been sorted already?

How many defenders have we signed in the last 12 months for a not inconsiderable cost?

[Austin Powers]

How many defenders have we signed in the last 12 months for a not inconsiderable cost?

Right, but the problem is still happening. Wouldn't that show that it's not necessarily a personnel issue?

It's defending as a unit which any shite back 4 can do if they're organised well enough.

[SteveZissou]

I've thought about this many times in the past but this is the first time I'm going to say it (as it's in context with posts here), Liverpool's approach to the defense reminds me of Maradona's Argentina. His team was one of the most exciting to watch going forward, but was also all over the place at the back. Maradona refused to bring in a different defensive coach. Take out Messi and Suarez from their respective team, and you got to work much harder to bail yourself out.