Author Topic: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies  (Read 8994 times)

Offline A Buick 6

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Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« on: June 1, 2012, 10:19:32 am »
Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies.

Here we are again. Another new dawn for a club which has had more new dawns than Jupiter. And once again, opinion is polarised. Not many of us can claim to have held Rodgers on a long term wishlist of potential leaders. A few of us have admired him from afar for his uncontested success at Swansea. Many more have been obliged to revise his history for some potential insight into what is to be expected. Already there are those who have decided he has not the credentials to succeed here. A closer look suggests he has every possible opportunity.


In the 1990s, Rodgers abandoned an unfulfilled playing career to embark on a personal crusade of education and self improvement. Some ex-players fill the void of broken dreams with self indulgence, self abuse and self-pity.  Rodgers filled the void with a thirst for knowledge and usurped  his disappointment with conviction.


Rodgers carried the memories of the great Brazilian sides around with him. Yet he found himself schooled in the curriculum of prosaic football that characterised British football education in the 80s. Tiki-taka must therefore have seemed an idyll-hard coded in another language both culturally and semantically. So his first task was to learn Spanish in order that he could communicate with those great masters of the beautiful game. Off Rodgers went on an odyssesy of pure footballing elucidation around the training grounds of Spain and Holland where the doctrines of high pressing, intelligent movement and ball distribution have been written and perfected over the decades. Zonal pressure, possession control, intelligence, movement. Continental traits maybe, but from Shankly to Rafa they found sanctuary in Liverpool too.


Rodgers' approach then clearly encompasses the technical obsession he developed on the continent. But it also encompasses hard work, preparation, fitness and determination. One of the most indicative quotes: “When I first came in I said to the players, we will push ourselves in every element of training, so it's reflective of the real game, so I don't have to go on about intensity all the time because that is an obligation”


If this is not the kind of man we want at Liverpool then it's hard to determine what is. The detractors will be sharpening their knives though. How can a man who’s greatest achievement is finishing 10th in the league be good enough for a club for whom Champions League qualification is considered mandatory. Surely we need a proven medal winner. Arsene Wenger, Josep Guardiola, even Jurgen Klopp. None had managed the best clubs in the best leagues before. The reason they were chosen to make the step up was  their approach, their philosophy, their character. These were the things they had in common. These are the things that Rodgers preaches.


Others seek to undermine Rodgers’ association with figures such as Jose Mourinho. It didn’t work for Brian Kidd they say. Carlos Quieroz was a failure and club and international level. And fair enough, not many clubs will be clammering for Mike Phelan any time soon. But Rodgers has been more than a sidekick to an irascible Scottish autocrat. His self education and refusal to betray his principles are testament to a strength of character not seen in Ferguson’s litany of failed protégés.


The failed spell at Reading is cause for caution though there is mitigation in the lack of time he was allowed to impose his methods. If we can begin to asses Rodgers by his actions and words then it is axiomatic that it will take time for his methods to sink in. Rodgers seeks to instill a football ideology.


 Such dogmas do not begin with a chalkboard half an hour before kick off and they do not end with a chummy slap on the back on the back at full time. There are months of graft, practice, communication and coaching ahead. If it is to succeed Rodgers requires co-operation from every individual at the club. He will surely find his new players more receptive. He is taking over from a man cut from similar cloth after all.


This will doubtless be the biggest test though. For all Kenny’s genius, one criticism is that his team at times seemed to lack identity, which raises questions about whether certain players in the current squad possess the intelligence and adaptability of such an approach. Rodger’s will quickly need to assess these traits amongst his new players.


We cannot know if or how this will work out. More experienced managers have been undermined by this club before. Just ask Rafa. Others, such as Roy Hodgson never came equipped to succeed in the first place. You will doubtless hear from the usual suspects in the press that Rodgers may befall a similar fate, that fans will turn on him if success is not instantaneous. If these lazy journalists bothered to look beyond their own loyalties they would see tangible justification for the short shrift Hodgson experienced. Credit to Roy, he installed a football philosophy quicker than any of his predecessors. It was an ethos of negativity and retrogression which succeeded in uniting fans and players in their feelings of isolation and dismay. Make no mistake, Rodgers is a different class of man and a different class of manager.


Critics have condemned FSG for carrying out their managerial search in public although it is hard to find real evidence for this. There has been a perpetual thirst for knowledge fuelled only by speculation on Twitter and occasional journalistic insight. The greatest source of information was Comical Dave Whelan, a man most people last saw telling the world there was no American troops in Baghdad. In the end, the job was offered to a man who most people had written out of the running 2 weeks earlier. Privacy and professionalism are hallmarks of The Liverpool Way so at times it seemed they could do no right for doing wrong.


 Nevertheless there is work for them to do in this new order. When they arrived they promised to engage with fans yet they have allowed this relationship to deteriorate, including the communication with HJC. The stadium issue is one which threatens Liverpool's long term stability and again there is a sense of inertia and waning trust. Broken promises do not justify prolonged patience around here.


In the aftermath of Kenny’s sacking I wrote that FSG, a group of men who know nothing, sacked a man who knew everything. I stand by that principle but I recognise that FSG must stand by theirs. Many of us believe that tradition and history and culture define not just our past but also must determine our future. FSG appeared to lack sentimentality in favour of a more radical, modern, target driven approach. Rodgers suits the vision they set out when they took over. Yet he meets many of the criteria many of us want from our manager. If Brendan Rodgers is the meeting point of two radically different schools of thought then it may just result in a glorious, happy coincidence.

Offline Greebo62

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #1 on: June 1, 2012, 09:34:27 pm »
Awesome post.

I'm taking it your post count is a bit naughty...LOL

Can't help but be impressed by the way he's handled himself and his dedication to his philosophy.  Pieces written long before Kenny was under threat seem to be consisten with what he said today.  Attacking, pressing football.  That seems to be his mantra, and lets face it, its what most of us want to see. 

Believe...

Offline Zeb

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #2 on: June 1, 2012, 09:47:30 pm »
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you're moonlighting A Buick 6 :) Superb OP. Hope you'll write more because that was a genuine pleasure to read.

Was interesting what Rodgers said about Reading today - "tried to change too much, too soon". The vision at the expense of results. Would find it hard to imagine we'll see him repeat that error here. Think the emphasis seemed to be more on evolution than revolution. Pragmatism versus the idealism.

Definitely agree with your last paragraph. He certainly said all the right things. And did it sincerely too. That little bit about Kenny to the Anfield Wrap lads was pitch perfect. And it didn't come across as niceties but genuine respect - he went out to bat for Kenny prior to the end of the season too. There's a lot of class about our new manager. It's also interesting that he was convincing enough to have FSG reconsider their planned set-up for the club too. He made no bones about that. Collaboration, pulling on the expertise of others, absolutely; but there will be leadership there, and he is the manager. He'll need that strength of will when he's had a few poor results and brickbats are being tossed at him.

Someone wise commented a few weeks back that FSG can stumble to the right decision. Rodgers certainly seems to 'fit' us from what he's said today - it was an encouraging beginning.
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Offline scottishRED

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #3 on: June 1, 2012, 10:19:05 pm »
bang on, even though I'm with the modernist / businesslike FSG school of thought...
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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #4 on: June 1, 2012, 10:24:55 pm »
He can write, can't he? :)

Offline Cochise

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #5 on: June 1, 2012, 10:44:12 pm »
I'm sure I've seen more posts by you than the 1 it says you have?

Great post btw.
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Offline fredfrop

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #6 on: June 1, 2012, 10:53:24 pm »
Hi Paul, nice post.
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Offline gomez

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #7 on: June 1, 2012, 11:31:32 pm »
Enjoyed reading that, been some boss posts on RAWK lately. Got a really good feeling about Rodgers, lets just hope he's given time to implement his ideas.

Offline nyrrard

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #8 on: June 2, 2012, 12:53:32 am »
Superb OP. Hope you'll write more because that was a genuine pleasure to read.

Offline Vulmea

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #9 on: June 2, 2012, 12:54:27 am »
Outstanding OP but wouldn'y AVB have ticked the same boxes plus a couple more? Martinez, Lambert, Robinson and a myriad of others all have good stories to tell.

If Rodgers learnt from Reading, isn't the implication Chelsea was AVB's Reading? In which case.......

There is no evidence to say Rodgers can handle ego's,  the media intensity at LFC, the pressure and scutiny of a big club, nor is he a proven winner - these I think are genuine reasons why there are doubts about the lad. Thats not to say he can't handle these things just that nobody knows how he will handle them.

Isn't it just as likley FSG noticed Swansea played us off the park and Rodgers is flavour of the month?

Good shout on Jupiter - 9hours 55 minutes  - had to google that :)

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Offline shelovesyou

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #10 on: June 2, 2012, 01:05:58 am »
Tell you what some cracking posts of late on here, makes it a real pleasure and can only say thanks again mate, cracking.
Wish I had it in me to write like that.
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Offline Bootle

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #11 on: June 2, 2012, 01:17:26 am »
I'll name that tune in one, Tom.

Offline A Buick 6

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #12 on: June 2, 2012, 01:01:48 pm »
Not moonlighting, honest.......

Just needed a kick up the arse from Mr Hendo to stop lurking and start writing.

Offline Passmaster Molby

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #13 on: June 2, 2012, 01:18:20 pm »
Pfft, PT posters, they never post enough ;D

Excellent read, thankyou.

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #14 on: June 2, 2012, 02:14:47 pm »
boss post that, loved it!

Offline 5bigears

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #15 on: June 3, 2012, 11:16:49 am »
Boss!!
And if that's true about the kick up the arse then Hendo should do it more often! ;)

Offline John C

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #16 on: June 6, 2012, 09:09:02 pm »
Great read mate, welcome to RAWK. I share your enthusiasm at the end.

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #17 on: June 6, 2012, 09:37:58 pm »
Excellent post, who is it? someone spill. Paul? Tomkins? Rogers? Parker?
Please take a look at my latest blog for theredmentv "Dispelling the Rodgers/Martinez myth" http://www.theredmentv.com/blog/p/263 All other blogs can be read at www.theredmentv.com/blog Let me know your thoughts

Offline Adamski LFC

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #18 on: June 7, 2012, 09:11:12 am »
I was thinking about this when Rogers was appointed and I had read a lot of articles about him.  I think BR might be here for the long term if he does okay, moving from manager to DOF after a period of time.  In this way we could maintain the philosophy he built up and he could then help choose the next guy to continue the philosophy.  Would he not be good DOF after say 5 years with us?
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Offline Yorkykopite

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #19 on: June 7, 2012, 09:57:09 am »
It's an interesting article but I'm not sure you've shown us what the "two radically different schools of thought" are - and therefore where this "meeting point" is. In fact if it's true that FSG is "a group of men who know nothing" I'm not sure there can be a meeting point.

Brendan Rodgers was appointed by this group of men. He's their creature. If they really "know nothing" that's worrying.

Fortunately, I think you're wrong. I think they've made a great choice. You say that Kenny was a man "who knew everything", but I suspect that Rodgers knows far more. I think FSG realised this when Swansea dominated possession against us, home and away. Sometimes, it seems, babes can be wiser than old men.
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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #20 on: June 7, 2012, 10:30:31 am »
Zonal pressure, possession control, intelligence, movement. Continental traits maybe, but from Shankly to Rafa they found sanctuary in Liverpool too.
For all of Hodgson’s mistakes, I believe this is one of the worst from a managerial/coaching point of view.  He inherited a team that had been drilled in a pressing, high intensity style by one of the best coaches in the game, for a number of years.  Instead of building upon this good work, he decided to rip it up.  I think if he had slightly tweaked Rafa’s approach then he may have benefitted.

This is what I would like Rodgers to do.  There are still elements of the team that played the pressing game.  Utilise them.  The ground work is already there.  Also build upon the fact that Dalglish tried to develop a pass-and-move style.  Both things seem to be part of Rodgers philosophy and I’d like to see him reactivate parts of the previous system.

Offline givemekaliber

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #21 on: June 7, 2012, 10:52:07 am »
Brilliant read and a post that should be binding most doubters and pessimists.
I am of the opinion that Rodgers will excel at an exciting rate. He will no doubt bring a fierce, passionate and committed presence to the club and hopefully the players will react in a positive way.
Those who need mollycoddling constantly and those who don't like his methods then fine, fuck off.
But I think most will enjoy the result of his work.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #22 on: June 8, 2012, 06:06:01 am »
I was thinking about this when Rogers was appointed and I had read a lot of articles about him.  I think BR might be here for the long term if he does okay, moving from manager to DOF after a period of time.  In this way we could maintain the philosophy he built up and he could then help choose the next guy to continue the philosophy.  Would he not be good DOF after say 5 years with us?

Why would he be a DoF at 44/45? He'll be a manager for a very long time. Hopefully at Liverpool (because that will mean things will be going very very well :D).

Rodgers is a "time on the grass" coach. A director's role wouldn't suit him, because he wants to be on the field with the players working through his system of play. That's an addiction that you can't give up easily for a suit and tie and seat on the board.
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Offline Adamski LFC

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Re: Rodgers: The meeting of philosphies
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2012, 10:42:27 pm »
Fair shout, thinking more about his role as ultimate manager of everything (scouting, coaching, youth, medicine, diet and so on) as I think as he has detailed it, it is a sort of Dof in all but name. 

Here's hoping he stamps his style on us with success on the pitch and in with indelible ink. Then heretofore only get managers that tweak the philosophy rather than wholesale change of philosophy.
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