Topic: In defence of Brendan Rodgers: The man who made us dream

[RK7]

Nothing has changed for me. I'm still on the fence with the man, and have been from day one. I won't call for his head, and I've even had a reversal of thought that he should be given something to find a decent striker in January. However, I'd wager that it be his final chance at finding someone who can actually improve us. If he gets that wrong, then he should walk. That's if the owners even decide to allow him to buy in the next window to begin with.

I think he might have found him already in Sterling to be fair, if he can grab a few goals in the premier League then all of a sudden the picture is transformed.

Sorting the defence out and bringing in a DM player has to be his priority right now and I think it will be that which determines his fate.

[SwordInYourGut]

Its reached a stage where opinions don't matter anymore. The owners are going to bin him if he doesn't get us into the top 4. Personally, I think he is a great coach and perfect for LFC. Shouldn't be given much control of transfers though. TC not making decent signings? Get a new committee in. If Rodgers is given control of transfers I fear we will be restricting ourselves to a very tiny pool of players (basically Swansea, Southampton, other english teams that play decent football and players Rodgers has worked with earlier). This is not acceptable when there is a wide world out there teeming with talent. Let Rodgers identify the qualities he wants and the positions he wants reinforced, let the TC get players in accordingly.

[stockdam]

Let's see what happens when Sturridge comes back and if we strengthen in January. Yes we are going through a tough period but Rodgers had us okaying superb football last year so hang in there as things will improve.

[Macphisto80]

I think he might have found him already in Sterling to be fair, if he can grab a few goals in the premier League then all of a sudden the picture is transformed.

Sorting the defence out and bringing in a DM player has to be his priority right now and I think it will be that which determines his fate.

Na, I don't think Sterling is the answer. If Brendan thinks he is, then he (and we) are in more trouble than I thought. Sterling is not a striker. It's OK scoring a couple against League 1 opposition, but we need an established striker with some experience to take chances as they come, not score one in every 3 or 4 that Sterling needs.

[kennedy81]

Its reached a stage where opinions don't matter anymore. The owners are going to bin him if he doesn't get us into the top 4. Personally, I think he is a great coach and perfect for LFC. Shouldn't be given much control of transfers though. TC not making decent signings? Get a new committee in. If Rodgers is given control of transfers I fear we will be restricting ourselves to a very tiny pool of players (basically Swansea, Southampton, other english teams that play decent football and players Rodgers has worked with earlier). This is not acceptable when there is a wide world out there teeming with talent. Let Rodgers identify the qualities he wants and the positions he wants reinforced, let the TC get players in accordingly.

A manager who doesn't have any input to signings is wasting his time and on a hiding to nothing.
I think it's a bit harsh to suggest he'd only be buying players he's worked with before, or from just English teams. He's not some 2 bit provincial manager who's never set foot outside of England.

What your describing sounds very much like what we already have.
We need a good scouting system which, along with Rodgers, needs to be backed by hard cash and a top negotiating team so he can get the players he needs.

What he doesn't need are players who he feels don't suit his system, but look like value for money to our owners and their stat monkeys.

[AndyMuller]

Didn't half look pissed off and bored in his press conference earlier on.

[RK7]

Na, I don't think Sterling is the answer. If Brendan thinks he is, then he (and we) are in more trouble than I thought. Sterling is not a striker. It's OK scoring a couple against League 1 opposition, but we need an established striker with some experience to take chances as they come, not score one in every 3 or 4 that Sterling needs.

You could be right but there isn't anything to suggest he couldn't turn into that player either, Suarez started as wide man and even as a forward with us was very wasteful to start. I know I would rather have Sterling in those positions to miss than a forward who doesn't.

But if we can get an established forward in January who can hit the ground running then fair enough I would agree.

[SwordInYourGut]

A manager who doesn't have any input to signings is wasting his time and on a hiding to nothing.
I think it's a bit harsh to suggest he'd only be buying players he's worked with before, or from just English teams. He's not some 2 bit provincial manager who's never set foot outside of England.

What your describing sounds very much like what we already have.
We need a good scouting system which, along with Rodgers, needs to be backed by hard cash and a top negotiating team so he can get the players he needs.

What he doesn't need are players who he feels don't suit his system, but look like value for money to our owners and their stat monkeys.

Correct. I really like the system the owners have in place for transfers. Blame the personnel for fucking up. Its not that difficult for a manager to describe what type of player he feels will suit the system and for a committee to go out and get him the best they can. If Rodgers says pacy, mobile attacker who works hard from the front and the committee gets Balotelli and Lambert, you can't blame the system.
I fear that if Rodgers is given control of transfers, we will always be a step behind in the transfer market. Take Lovren for example. We could've signed him a year earlier for less than half the price from Lyon, but was never identified. Similar with Vertonghen and Eriksen depending on how many reports you believe. Jackson Martinez was available for €5million and was even identified. But a manager does not have the time to trawl through thousands of reports and videos and convince himself that a player from some no-mark league can come in and do well in premier league. Thats what the committee should be doing. Rodgers won't be complaining if he gets a quality player who possesses the attributes he listed

[dudleyred]

he has to be given time. As so many have said, starting again just puts us back to square one.

A good second half to the season and a better season next time around.

I would probably say CL is unlikely next year which from the finances are a bad thing but gives the team chance to develop out of the spotlight.

Last season every club in the land would have taken Brendan as manager maybe with the exception of Chelsea, however, they know Jose will be off after a few years as he never sticks around anywhere.

We have the best young manager and all the other clubs will have to change theirs again. Arsenal will suffer when Wenger goes. Utd will suffer until they get it right and van Gaal is getting on.

Rodgers is the man to stick by for 5 years and then judge him.

[GrkStav]

Wow, that last interview of his! Short (laconic) and quite a bit prickly.

Reminded me a bit of some of KD's interviews.

Can't blame him; in fact, given the stupidity and sensationalism of some of the journo questions in general, this type of interview/response to them ought to be the default.

[GrkStav]

Correct. I really like the system the owners have in place for transfers. Blame the personnel for fucking up. Its not that difficult for a manager to describe what type of player he feels will suit the system and for a committee to go out and get him the best they can. If Rodgers says pacy, mobile attacker who works hard from the front and the committee gets Balotelli and Lambert, you can't blame the system.
I fear that if Rodgers is given control of transfers, we will always be a step behind in the transfer market. Take Lovren for example. We could've signed him a year earlier for less than half the price from Lyon, but was never identified. Similar with Vertonghen and Eriksen depending on how many reports you believe. Jackson Martinez was available for €5million and was even identified. But a manager does not have the time to trawl through thousands of reports and videos and convince himself that a player from some no-mark league can come in and do well in premier league. Thats what the committee should be doing. Rodgers won't be complaining if he gets a quality player who possesses the attributes he listed

When Jackson Martinez was available for that price, he probably wouldn't have gotten a work permit in the UK according to the rules and without some maneuvering (a polite way of saying what we all know happens when e.g. MUFC apply for an 'exception', etc).

[kennedy81]

If Rodgers says pacy, mobile attacker who works hard from the front and the committee gets Balotelli and Lambert, you can't blame the system.

If that's what Rodgers was looking for and all they could come up with is Balotelli, there's very much something wrong with the system.
Lambert is more of a unique case. Local lad who could be had for cheap, so worth a punt as a back up.

[L666KOP]

Wow, that last interview of his! Short (laconic) and quite a bit prickly.

Reminded me a bit of some of KD's interviews.

Can't blame him; in fact, given the stupidity and sensationalism of some of the journo questions in general, this type of interview/response to them ought to be the default.

Good.

Fuck 'em.

Personally thought he was too matey with the media, hate him talking to the medicine ball headed fucker on Talksport as well.

Answer the question, move on.

If you're going to twist my words, and run with what you think I mean, or make shite up to get clicks then you'll get fuck all.

Good man.

[Red Sea]

Lovren's not a bad defender, he's going through a period of shit form.

Nah he ain't a bad defender, he's a really bad defender, displayed about 3 months of impressive form. Easily, th most baffling of summer signings.

[elpistolero7]

Nah he ain't a bad defender, he's a really bad defender, displayed about 3 months of impressive form. Easily, th most baffling of summer signings.

Nope, don't think so. He was good for most of last season, really, really fucking good for the first half of it.

[Carly]

Nope, don't think so. He was good for most of last season, really, really fucking good for the first half of it.

No he wasnt.   Ater xmas he was crap for Southampton.  And he was woeful his whole time at Lyon.  We paid £20 million for a player who had a good 3-4 months of football.  Madness.

[elpistolero7]

No he wasnt.   Ater xmas he was crap for Southampton.  And he was woeful his whole time at Lyon.  We paid £20 million for a player who had a good 3-4 months of football.  Madness.

We did overpay massively, but I still don't think he's a bad player. It was a puzzling transfer no doubt, considering Agger was let go for 3 million, and Sakho's definitely a better center half. Oh well.

[lindylou100]

Well Lovren's here now like it or not, it's time to see if Rodgers coaching staff can actually do something they've never managed with any of our defenders; coaching him to be better. I'm sick to death of us buying good defenders and somehow coaching them into mediocrity, buy another one and then rinse and repeat the whole thing again. We can't afford to do that over and over again just because the staff seem incapable of get the best out of them. It's the same with the GK, I've never seen our GK's get better after they join for years now.

[SwordInYourGut]

If that's what Rodgers was looking for and all they could come up with is Balotelli, there's very much something wrong with the system.
Lambert is more of a unique case. Local lad who could be had for cheap, so worth a punt as a back up.

Surely thats just the TC not doing its job properly. If thats what Rodgers was looking for, and we are all sure it was, the head scout and the stats man should've made sure the targets met the requirements. If a capable team is not performing, the manager is replaced. Nobody calls for the role of the manager to be abandoned. Get different (read better) people on the TC instead. The way I see it, Rodgers is a brilliant coach, well adjusted to our club and its unlikely we can get a better coach (realistically). But, at the same time, our transfers have been pretty poor, year on year. You can look at the Rodgers targets (Borini, Dempsey, Allen, Lovren, Mignolet etc) or the overall signings, both have been poor at best with Rodgers' targets probably faring marginally worse. So it makes sense to change the TC and see how that works.

[SwordInYourGut]

When Jackson Martinez was available for that price, he probably wouldn't have gotten a work permit in the UK according to the rules and without some maneuvering (a polite way of saying what we all know happens when e.g. MUFC apply for an 'exception', etc).

Possibly. But there are excellent players out there in the Dutch, Belgian, French leagues who would fit in straightaway at Liverpool if only we had a better scouting system and a more decisive committee to pull off signings like Koulibaly, Tadic, Bacca, Perisic or Sadio Mane. For example, right now, Kevin Kampl is a very highly rated talent at RB Salzburg whom we probably would have scouted and decided against signing. But a PL will take him on, he will perform at the level he has always looked for a year in the PL and next year Rodgers would want to pay thrice the amount to get him here.

[Sinstar]

Glad to hear good feedback and see (mostly) healthy talk about Rodgers.

[CRAZY HORSE EMLYN]

Everything is so binary nowadays.
Everyone is looking for a headline.
Everyone is waiting for the line between 'success' and 'failure' to be breached.
Pundits were queuing up to say City's title winning manager would be sacked in October.
Brendan was a genius manager. Now he's a shite manager.

Look again at Shankly's record:
1963: 8th
1964: 1st
1965: 7th
1966: 1st
1967: 5th
1968: 3rd

Note well – that was also after 3 years of not getting out of Division 2.

[TSC]

Of course we should stick with him.  Otherwise we go back to the start (yawn) again.  Decent OP but can we just dispense with the 'made us dream' shit.  Seen it also on a few banners down the years and last year.  Fuck it off.  Now.  Permanently. 

[The Flying Pig]

Of course we should stick with him.  Otherwise we go back to the start (yawn) again.  Decent OP but can we just dispense with the 'made us dream' shit.  Seen it also on a few banners down the years and last year.  Fuck it off.  Now.  Permanently. 

I'm in.

[Danan]

Of course that Brendan should keep his job and continue with the project, but he must seriously improve certain aspects of his management.

[Mutton Geoff]

Everything is so binary nowadays.
Everyone is looking for a headline.
Everyone is waiting for the line between 'success' and 'failure' to be breached.
Pundits were queuing up to say City's title winning manager would be sacked in October.
Brendan was a genius manager. Now he's a shite manager.

Look again at Shankly's record:
1963: 8th
1964: 1st
1965: 7th
1966: 1st
1967: 5th
1968: 3rd

Note well – that was also after 3 years of not getting out of Division 2.

good but they will wail that football has changed now, personally the game has evolved and the idea of being a supporter has however been corrupted by the they win or else i will cwy and cwy and cwy attitudes, more just william that Charlie Buchan mentality.

As for the thread sentiment is alright but why does Rodgers need defending in Rawk from supposed Liverpool Fans?

[Cid]

Its reached a stage where opinions don't matter anymore. The owners are going to bin him if he doesn't get us into the top 4. Personally, I think he is a great coach and perfect for LFC. Shouldn't be given much control of transfers though. TC not making decent signings? Get a new committee in. If Rodgers is given control of transfers I fear we will be restricting ourselves to a very tiny pool of players (basically Swansea, Southampton, other english teams that play decent football and players Rodgers has worked with earlier). This is not acceptable when there is a wide world out there teeming with talent. Let Rodgers identify the qualities he wants and the positions he wants reinforced, let the TC get players in accordingly.

At which point he'll treat them like Assaidi or Sakho?

The problem with Brendan Rodgers is not just his limited knowledge of players, it's that he appears too stubborn to let people choose players on his behalf.  Either he learns to relinquish a little control of we'll continue to end up with premier league form players at ridiculous premium prices.

[Upinsmoke]

He needs to be given more time. He's only spend a quarter of a billion. He needs at least twice that to compete.

Give him that again and the chances are we will probably end up finding those 2 or 3 players out of 15 that might bring us number 19.

[Peabee]

I actually think the owners will show more patience than some of the fans.  They know Rodgers is a talent.  We know that too.  If he left, there's a good chance we'd see him pick up titles and honours at some other club in the not too distant future. 

Some talk about the lack of experience in title races, Europe, getting out of bad runs, and so on, which is exactly the experience he and his backroom staff are gaining now.  If they don't learn from it, then fair enough it will soon show, but give them some time as they may surprise us.  I'm sure Rodgers is learning from every bad game.   What he did against United and Bournemouth in a week of intense pressure, showed massive courage.  Also, he's usually accused of being too open with the media, but this week he's giving the media short shift as maybe he's learned they take your words and twist them, so it's best to keep it short and to the point.   

Anyway, is there any place for pragmatism from fans?  All that shite that came our way last season for supposedly celebrating the title too soon was nonsense.  What is the point in playing good football, being top of the table, etc, if you can't enjoy it while it's happening.? 

[number 168]

Since the brutal and unnecessary sacking of Rafa I realise that investing any emotion in the manger is foolish. He is now another employee who has to deliver in a relatively short space of time or be replaced.  This is how I think of Rodgers. I ignore his blathering press conferences, rather ridiculous attempts to be cerebral about football and his wish to be the supporters' champion. Either do your job, get us trophies or make way for someone better. Languishing in mid table, playing dire football and being the eternal optimist isn't what FSG want (I hope), and is certainly not what Liverpool FC is about.

[EmotionalCitrus]

It was our strike partnership that 'made us dream' last season, this season has shown us what happens to a Rodgers team without record breaking strikers.

[Mutton Geoff]

It was our strike partnership that 'made us dream' last season, this season has shown us what happens to a Rodgers team without record breaking strikers.

well at least your consistant!



in posting short sighted and utterly wrong crap i mean.

Football is a team game even on FM i reckon.

just to explain in simple terms  for you, 

any manager plays to the strengths in his team, so the team was set up to maximise the talents of Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho, Sterling and Gerrard as the Conductor of this group, so what you seem to think was some plan invented by two players, was in fact great management.

He is now dealing with a different problem of initially buying one or two players that would compliment the way we played last season but without the lynchpins of Sturridge or the suddenly wanted away Suarez.

He is also dealing with low confidence and false expectations, and some real blerts who worship negativity.

[UntouchableLuis]

Should be given all of this season and all of next season. Will have had 4 full seasons then and let's see where we are then. Until we sign another 2 strikers and sort the defence out there's no manager in the world that could do anything with this current squad.

[Anywhichwayicant]

He should be judged from now until the end of the season. Another four months of dire performances and he has to go.

[SteveZissou]

I dont understand this point. Would Real Madrid have won their 10th CL without Ronaldo , does that mean Ancellotti is overrated ?
Would Guardiola have dominated Europe without Messi? Every top manager is there because he has top players at his disposal, the 2 go together , part of the same equation. Football has always been about players, and the teams with the best players usually win. The way to get the best players is by outspending everyone else competing for these players. Until then, 3rd/4th for the likes of Liverpool/Arsenal is as good as it gets, barring the odd exceptional season.

It's easy to understand. I don't have time to explain every point through all ends, but I can help now. There's two basic approaches: 1. to produce with the player quality and 2. if you don't have the players then you use superior tactics to beat superior quality teams. Rafa Benitez has proven the latter in the UCL in 2005 and took us to the final in 2007. Unless you have a magician as manager, as Rafa was, then you got to understand your limits. With Rafa it's not just the tactics either, I'm quite sure that with 100mil to spend, he may not have brought us Ronaldo/Messi/Zlatan, but he would've attracted higher calibre players to make us compete in Europe. My post was alluding to that. Watch the Olympiakos game and you'd see we had the likes of Sinama, Nunez and Neil Mellor to rely on that night. We didn't need Cristiano Ronaldo. We all know the legendary accomplishments with Biscan and Traore. We didn't need Maldini or Nedved. Can Rodgers take us far in Europe when he doesn't have 100mil to spend every season?

[Mutton Geoff]

He should be judged from now until the end of the season. Another four months of dire performances and he has to go.

Christ what a terrible post !

[SerbianScouser]

Can Rodgers take us far in Europe when he doesn't have 100mil to spend every season?

He took us closer to the no.19 than Rafa ever did so I`m sure he can emulate his success in Europe too.

[SteveZissou]

Sturridge scoring 22 league goals in about 26 starts, Gerrard being the most productive (goals+assists) deep lying playmaker in Europe, and Sterling being phenomenal from January onwards had nothing to do with it.

Neither did Rodgers deliberate switch from the Barca Model, to literally the Dortmund model in the space of a few months. Excellent, really excellent analysis. You should be a pundit on sky. Or the dictionary definition of a world class retard.

Haha. If you believe that I'm here to write essays for you and prove that i'm a professor of football then you wrong. I'd rather be regarded as a retard as you say, but let's help again. All the points you made don't matter. My original point still stands. If you took out Suarez from our team last season, we wouldn't have challenged for the title. If you believe we would then it's you that doesn't understand much. We were a wafer thin squad last season, even removing Sterling or Sturridge from the equation would have been a major blow to our race, so if you think removing Suarez wouldn't be a major blow and Rodgers could've achieved it with his 'system' then (I'm sure you can fill in the blanks)... The problem you have created is made assumptions on my original point, I didn't say I'm not giving Rodgers or anybody else any credit, or even the tea lady, or even the psychologist or Rodgers wife, everyone has their praise, BUT IF YOU TAKE SUAREZ OUT... it's an obvious point, and if you debating that... I know I'm wasting my time. The only reason I'm explaining myself here after months of not doing so, is that I'm quite bored right now.

[Upinsmoke]

He took us closer to the no.19 than Rafa ever did so I`m sure he can emulate his success in Europe too.

Under Rafa we came second but in the same season slaughtered Real Madrid. No offense but we've just experienced absolute embarrassment this season in the CL and sit 11th.

[SerbianScouser]

Under Rafa we came second but in the same season slaughtered Real Madrid. No offense but we've just experienced absolute embarrassment this season in the CL and sit 11th.

Rafa had Gerrard in his prime, he didn`t have to sell his best striker in Torres, etc. Brendan inherited Gerrard on his last legs, had to sell his best striker in Suarez, and is unlucky the world-class striker he brought turns out to be a new Agger. So let`s give the guy some time to rebuild as the circumstances didn`t unravel form him perfectly.