Author Topic: Mason  (Read 21385 times)

Offline ricen

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Re: Mason
« Reply #80 on: December 5, 2014, 09:41:48 pm »
Obviously I care about stupid refs, bad calls, and moments that can turn a game on its head....but for me we're not talking about the worst thing of all.

Mason's officiating was so lax that their defenders began taking riskier and riskier tackles as the game went on. I kept thinking - oh god one of these is going to go terribly wrong and sterling is going to have his ankle snapped off at the hilt. Then we'll get mad cause sterling can influence a game because he's afraid to extend his foot and win a ball lest the defender foul.

If teams realize they can get away with murder when they play us then our injury problems are just going to get worse and worse
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Mason
« Reply #81 on: December 6, 2014, 08:27:32 am »
Have to disagree Geoff. Watch European leagues and you'll see the standard over here is pretty good. We still have a good number of very good refs.
I disagree watch the Bundesliga and compare I would also say the standard of refereeing in the lower leagues in the UK is better than the prem , who selects them is it all mates together or what?
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline TheTeflonJohn

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Re: Mason
« Reply #82 on: December 6, 2014, 09:40:12 am »
Gerrard was looking for that penalty and Mason was right not to give it.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: Mason
« Reply #83 on: December 6, 2014, 09:43:36 am »
Oh come on, it was a penalty. Gerrard makes a weird little hoppy-skippy jump, because he thinks he's going to get clattered sooner. But no doubt about it Schmeichel takes him down. You only have to look at the expression on his face to know he knows he got away with it.

Offline Captain Caveman

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Re: Mason
« Reply #84 on: December 6, 2014, 09:54:25 am »
Lee Mason is a fraud.
You mean he's not a crap referee afterall then?
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Offline TheTeflonJohn

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Re: Mason
« Reply #85 on: December 6, 2014, 10:24:55 am »
Oh come on, it was a penalty. Gerrard makes a weird little hoppy-skippy jump, because he thinks he's going to get clattered sooner. But no doubt about it Schmeichel takes him down. You only have to look at the expression on his face to know he knows he got away with it.

Not having it mate, that was more than a weird little hoppy skippy jumpy thing (!), he made the initial movement towards the keeper looking for it. Let face it, Gerrard`s got form for looking for penalties, going down easy.

The main issue I have with Mason is the obvious blurred vision he had when dealing with the treatment of Sterling.

Offline stockdam

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Re: Mason
« Reply #86 on: December 6, 2014, 10:57:41 am »
It's very hard to be objective towards a referee when you are a supporter. Many incidents are not clear cut and I know that my tendency is to naturally favour LFC. So when one of ours goes down then I'm screaming for a foul but when I watch it back in slow motion later then it is often hard to see the contact and if the player went down easily. I naturally think that the other side's players have dived.

I therefore find it hard to be objective towards referees but I don't think any have an agenda towards us. I leave that call to those of whom can be objective.
#JFT97

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #87 on: December 6, 2014, 10:59:00 am »
Gerrard was looking for that penalty and Mason was right not to give it.

The thing is, whilst you personally may have your own take on that particular incident, whether he was right or wrong and whether it was or whether it wasn't a penalty is not particularly relevant to this thread.

What this thread is about concerns the fact that for some reason Lee Mason seems to find it beyond his capabilities/instincts to officiate fairly and equitably at a game involving LFC.

A scrutiny on LFCtv of the two games highlighted in the opening post - Man City away last season and the recent away game at Leicester -  will illustrate this fact clearly and irrevocably to anybody who cares enough to watch a re-run of both those games with any sort of open yet analytical mind, concentrating particularly on the uneven handed approach of Mason to those sort of marginal challenges which are open to interpretation either way.

That is to say the following sort of interpretations. Whether there was actually any foul play involved in such marginal incidents? If so, was any such foul play just by one party or by both parties? Was clear foul play by one party allowed to go unpunished? Was fairly innocuous play that may have bordered upon foul play pulled up by the ref as foul play when corresponding play by the other sides' players went unpunished?

 As the play unfolds in both games you will clearly see Mason's interpretations - with exceptions of course for we're not talking of a 100% watertight case of bias here - will for the most part favour Liverpool's opponents and not favour us.

In the opening post I've highlighted a few of these marginal incidents where they had a significant impact upon the game's outcome. However, it is the preponderance of relatively uneventful interpretations against Liverpool players - forinstance in the Leicester game Mason's almost dogged resolve to overlook what was happening to Sterling - which provide the evidence of a man who cannot help himself in favouring Liverpool's opponents.   

So whilst competance is clearly an important quality for a referee to posses, the case of Lee Mason and Liverpool FC demonstrates clearly that the ultimate requirement for a referee is not competance but fairness. On this crucial aspect, Mason fails miserably when it comes to games involving LFC

Whatever the reasons and/or motivation for his attitude towards LFC the simple fact is he does not referee fairly and as such he should never again be allowed to come within a million miles of officiating in a Liverpool game. As it is I don't see it as an issue that encompasses any malice aforethought or such like. I just don't think the man can help himself. It's instinctive not pre-meditated. As for his competance or incompetance? Well they're all human and they're all going to make errors. they're all going to interpret incidents in their own way. Except for his clear bias where LFC are concerned I really don't see him that much different from most other officials. A bit chubbier and off the pace perhaps but then again I'm ancient enough to remember Roger Fitzpatrick.

 :)
« Last Edit: December 6, 2014, 01:07:56 pm by Timbo's Goals »

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #88 on: December 6, 2014, 11:16:25 am »
It's very hard to be objective towards a referee when you are a supporter. Many incidents are not clear cut and I know that my tendency is to naturally favour LFC. So when one of ours goes down then I'm screaming for a foul but when I watch it back in slow motion later then it is often hard to see the contact and if the player went down easily. I naturally think that the other side's players have dived.

I therefore find it hard to be objective towards referees but I don't think any have an agenda towards us. I leave that call to those of whom can be objective.

Of course you can be objective.

Just be er... objective.

Like wot i am

 ;D


Offline McrRed

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Re: Mason
« Reply #89 on: December 6, 2014, 02:16:09 pm »
Appreciate what you're trying to do here, Timbo. Anyone have the underlying stats? Eg fouls for/against.

Now I know for a fact that refs can juke the stats so a game appears even handed.....give a foul against sterling in their penalty area to the opposition. 85th minute, give a foul to skrtl just outside our penalty area. All even. Nothing to see here folks. Its quite easy to do but what are the actual numbers for this buffoon?

Offline SuperStevieNicol

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Re: Mason
« Reply #90 on: December 6, 2014, 02:47:47 pm »
I disagree watch the Bundesliga and compare I would also say the standard of refereeing in the lower leagues in the UK is better than the prem , who selects them is it all mates together or what?
If the lower league refs were better they'd be in the premier league and vice versa.
JFT97

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Mason
« Reply #91 on: December 6, 2014, 04:51:37 pm »
If the lower league refs were better they'd be in the premier league and vice versa.

not if it a pick your mates club they wont, are you saying that  dross is the best in the UK
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Mason
« Reply #92 on: December 6, 2014, 09:16:07 pm »
... A bit chubbier and off the pace perhaps but then again I'm ancient enough to remember Roger Fitzpatrick.

 :)

Two a half and out of three ain't bad, Timbo, lad...and you're right, Mason shouldn't be near a Liverpool game again...ever

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And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline 12Kings

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Re: Mason
« Reply #93 on: December 6, 2014, 09:18:36 pm »
It wouldn't surprise me if one day we find out a horrible truth about the premier league that's similar to What's happened in Italy.

Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Mason
« Reply #94 on: December 6, 2014, 09:27:38 pm »
...or even 3 and a half out of four with the fat bastard...

...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #95 on: December 7, 2014, 12:13:07 am »
Two a half and out of three ain't bad, Timbo, lad...and you're right, Mason shouldn't be near a Liverpool game again...ever



 ;D

Ha ha - nice one VBG - mister Pickwick!!

PS - have a look at the Echo website for some old L'pool photees. There's some great ones of Bobby G.

Also Gordon Wallace is on one or two and peter Wall.

Also nice little Quiz question for you and Geoff - who signed along with peter Wall and from which club?

Without looking it up either

 :)

Offline Robbo1980

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Re: Mason
« Reply #96 on: December 7, 2014, 03:41:38 am »
Can we add that twat from today to a list of shit refs alongside Mason

Some noticeably bizzare refereeing in regards to Raheem lately, he seems to be getting pulled, pushed, hacked yet GIVING AWAY more free kicks than he's getting

Offline Hij

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Re: Mason
« Reply #97 on: December 7, 2014, 04:40:20 am »
Only clocked this thread a day or two after the match, but I remember several dire performances from Mason and am convinced he is biased against us. Like Timbo mentioned, I felt the same once I realised he was reffing the  match in which we won v Leicester. I was doing the washing up with my laptop balanced on the side (praying it wouldn't drop into the sink ;D ) and just remember an extortionate amount of "50-50's" only going one way. When it happens all the time makes it a bit obvious and annoying after a while.
« Last Edit: December 7, 2014, 04:46:31 am by Hij »
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Offline Hij

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Re: Mason
« Reply #98 on: December 7, 2014, 04:42:25 am »
Can we add that twat from today to a list of shit refs alongside Mason

Some noticeably bizzare refereeing in regards to Raheem lately, he seems to be getting pulled, pushed, hacked yet GIVING AWAY more free kicks than he's getting

I was listening to the Anfield Wrap after the game v Stoke as I thought there was one on a Thursday but I think it's been moved to the Friday. Remembered one guy talking about the Spurs game where we won 5-0 and the ref letting stuff go. Although nothing was really being let go, the ref was allowing players to take it off other players so long as they didn't push, pull, or foul them, but closing down (even with the defender facing towards goal) and taking the ball was ok. A fair display of refereeing he said, and I would agree even if we had players doing that to us.

It seems to be written in this game by the defence, and the refs, that if the defender turns towards his own goal, and then just crumples to the floor to give a free kick. Happened a few times with Sterling today and does often, and he's the smallest player on the pitch. Brick shithouse, 6ft lads, crumpling to the floor under a bit of pressure from Raheem Sterling. It's just bullshit. Same way Pantillimon (forgive my spelling) came out, missed the ball and dropped it and we 'won a corner' until he had a free kick called for him, even though he collided with his own defender.

It's just massive bollocks.
« Last Edit: December 7, 2014, 04:45:08 am by Hij »
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Mason
« Reply #99 on: December 7, 2014, 10:26:23 am »
;D

Ha ha - nice one VBG - mister Pickwick!!

PS - have a look at the Echo website for some old L'pool photees. There's some great ones of Bobby G.

Also Gordon Wallace is on one or two and peter Wall.

Also nice little Quiz question for you and Geoff - who signed along with peter Wall and from which club?

Without looking it up either

 :)

Was it Kevin Keegan? Guessing but they were in the same digs by us and they were always in The Waldeck bottom of my street on Lawrence road. Not sure of Wally's club. Walsall?
« Last Edit: December 7, 2014, 10:28:10 am by Vivabobbygraham »
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #100 on: December 7, 2014, 10:47:16 am »
Was it Kevin Keegan? Guessing but they were in the same digs by us and they were always in The Waldeck bottom of my street on Lawrence road. Not sure of Wally's club. Walsall?

No not KK - I think it was a year or so before then.

Some things do just stick. Most times they don't register and with this one I can't begin to think why as the other lad never played a single game for us.

I'll wait to give geoff a go though.

 :)

Offline IgoDirk

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Re: Mason
« Reply #101 on: December 7, 2014, 10:55:03 am »
I was listening to the Anfield Wrap after the game v Stoke as I thought there was one on a Thursday but I think it's been moved to the Friday. Remembered one guy talking about the Spurs game where we won 5-0 and the ref letting stuff go. Although nothing was really being let go, the ref was allowing players to take it off other players so long as they didn't push, pull, or foul them, but closing down (even with the defender facing towards goal) and taking the ball was ok. A fair display of refereeing he said, and I would agree even if we had players doing that to us.

It seems to be written in this game by the defence, and the refs, that if the defender turns towards his own goal, and then just crumples to the floor to give a free kick. Happened a few times with Sterling today and does often, and he's the smallest player on the pitch. Brick shithouse, 6ft lads, crumpling to the floor under a bit of pressure from Raheem Sterling. It's just bullshit. Same way Pantillimon (forgive my spelling) came out, missed the ball and dropped it and we 'won a corner' until he had a free kick called for him, even though he collided with his own defender.

It's just massive bollocks.

This is what annoys me too, it's when refs give decisions for things they clearly haven't seen (as they didn't happen). In that situation, the referee hasn't seen Pantillimon (I'm just going with your spelling  :)) being fouled, because he wasn't touched by anyone in red.

I have no problem with referees making mistakes or decisions I don't agree with. I didn't think Milner should have had a penalty yesterday, but the referee saw contact, and judged it to be a foul. Fair enough. But playing it safe and giving free kicks for things that didn't happen? Bullshit. Defenders and Keepers get way too much protection, because they know the ref will play it safe if they go down. If a defender crumples to the ground under pressure from Sterling, as you mentioned, then the ref will give the free kick, avoiding controversy if he ignores it and Sterling goes on to score/create a goal. Same with keepers (apart from when Migs gets punched in the face by Carroll).

This is why I'd love to see post game interviews with refs. Everybody understands they have a pretty much impossible job in getting every decision right. We know they're not going to see everything and get every call right. But the fact they're pretty much unaccountable for any decisions, we never hear their side of the story, it leads to fans believing in bias and incompetence. If a referee comes out after a game and has to say "I gave this penalty because I saw this contact here", even if you disagree you can see the reasoning behind it. Imagine Mason having to do an interview after our game.... "I didn't give this free kick or penalty because I hate Liverpool". That wouldn't happen, so he therefore has to justify each big decision, which either shows him up as incompetent, or he quickly realises he has to give decisions that he can justify with a replay in front of him.  Of course he could say, "I failed to see that, the decision may have been incorrect in hindsight", for which he'd get respect. But if that happens too often and always when Liverpool are involved, then soon enough he's dropped for being poor at his job.

On a side note, I wish Raheem would stop grabbing the ball with his hands every time he goes down. Quite a lot of the time he has been fouled, and it should be a free kick. But if I were a ref I'd be annoyed by the player trying to make the decisions himself and pressure me into a decision.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #102 on: December 7, 2014, 11:28:03 am »
I was listening to the Anfield Wrap after the game v Stoke as I thought there was one on a Thursday but I think it's been moved to the Friday. Remembered one guy talking about the Spurs game where we won 5-0 and the ref letting stuff go. Although nothing was really being let go, the ref was allowing players to take it off other players so long as they didn't push, pull, or foul them, but closing down (even with the defender facing towards goal) and taking the ball was ok. A fair display of refereeing he said, and I would agree even if we had players doing that to us.

It seems to be written in this game by the defence, and the refs, that if the defender turns towards his own goal, and then just crumples to the floor to give a free kick. Happened a few times with Sterling today and does often, and he's the smallest player on the pitch. Brick shithouse, 6ft lads, crumpling to the floor under a bit of pressure from Raheem Sterling. It's just bullshit. Same way Pantillimon (forgive my spelling) came out, missed the ball and dropped it and we 'won a corner' until he had a free kick called for him, even though he collided with his own defender.

It's just massive bollocks.


Absolutely Hij.

Here's the corresponding sentiment from my own post. I can still recall the sense of witnessing a fair hand being dealt when I was watching it. It was like what you often see some of the European referees sometimes bringing to the game - an even unfussy hand. Judging each incident fairly and squarely. It's hardly rocket science yet seemingly so rare in our game. mason, of course, as far as we're concerned simply abuses us.

Down at Tottenham [the 0-5 game] for the first time in many years in such a high profile game I felt we had officials who were competant and fair. Which is precisely what officials are meant to be and years ago most were. If anything at White hart lane we got the rub of the green with the decisions. I'm thinking of the times when we were harrying them and winnining possession and many officials in recent years would have penalised us - incorrectly - but penalised us nonetheless.

At the Etihad, the officials were a fucking disgrace. They were so inclined to rule decisions in favour of the home side the game was actually a fuckin farce. The Sterling offside is the obvious one but amidst a litany of smaller decisions awarded against us, Mason favoured City with at least five important decisions all of which he got wrong. One of these led very quickly to City's equaliser and two should have seen us at least one penalty [the shirt tug on Suarez] and an indirect free kick or even penalty in the box [the Kolorov body check on Johnson].


Offline redtel

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Re: Mason
« Reply #103 on: December 7, 2014, 12:41:15 pm »
;D

Ha ha - nice one VBG - mister Pickwick!!

PS - have a look at the Echo website for some old L'pool photees. There's some great ones of Bobby G.

Also Gordon Wallace is on one or two and peter Wall.

Also nice little Quiz question for you and Geoff - who signed along with peter Wall and from which club?

Without looking it up either

 :)

Can anyone play ?  ???

I know it was Wrexham who must have done a BOGOF deal.

I think it was Mason, but not sure. Probably this thread jogged your memory?  ;)

We are definitely believers and we’ve won the fucking lot!

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #104 on: December 7, 2014, 12:46:41 pm »
Can anyone play ?  ???

I know it was Wrexham who must have done a BOGOF deal.

I think it was Mason, but not sure. Probably this thread jogged your memory?  ;)



Ha ha - hope to god there's no relation

Well in mate. Should have known Sir Roger's afficianado would get the winner!

Extra brownie points for his christian name?


Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Mason
« Reply #105 on: December 7, 2014, 12:47:02 pm »
No not KK - I think it was a year or so before then.

Some things do just stick. Most times they don't register and with this one I can't begin to think why as the other lad never played a single game for us.

I'll wait to give geoff a go though.

 :)

Dont rely on me i cant remember what a drank last night half the time ! ;D
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Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #106 on: December 7, 2014, 01:06:58 pm »
Dont rely on me i cant remember what a drank last night half the time ! ;D

I think the lad was one of your lot geoff - if that's any help.

Offline Stubbins

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Re: Mason
« Reply #107 on: December 7, 2014, 01:19:47 pm »

Roger (Mr Pickwick) Kirkpatrick?!

Have I stumbled into the 'Auld Arses' section?

Did you know that Kirkpatrick could run as fast backwards as he could forwards? I don't know exactly how fast that was but he was a bundle of high stepping energy as I recall. The first referee who you really noticed rather than just the anonymous bloke in black in the middle. And you noticed him not for getting decisions wrong.

Offline Timbo's Goals

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Re: Mason
« Reply #108 on: December 7, 2014, 02:01:11 pm »
Roger (Mr Pickwick) Kirkpatrick?!

Have I stumbled into the 'Auld Arses' section?

Yeah!

 ;D

Did you know that Kirkpatrick could run as fast backwards as he could forwards? I don't know exactly how fast that was but he was a bundle of high stepping energy as I recall. The first referee who you really noticed rather than just the anonymous bloke in black in the middle. And you noticed him not for getting decisions wrong.

I didn't know that. But now you've brought it up didn't we all used to cheer when he did that backwards run?

happy days.

 ;D

Offline 4pool

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Re: Mason
« Reply #109 on: December 8, 2014, 02:56:19 pm »
Absolutely Hij.

Here's the corresponding sentiment from my own post. I can still recall the sense of witnessing a fair hand being dealt when I was watching it. It was like what you often see some of the European referees sometimes bringing to the game - an even unfussy hand. Judging each incident fairly and squarely. It's hardly rocket science yet seemingly so rare in our game. mason, of course, as far as we're concerned simply abuses us.


Jonathan Moss was the Ref when we beat Spurs 5-0 last season.

Phil Dowd was the Ref when we beat them 3-0 this season. The only time Sturridge and Balotelli have played together..btw.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Mason
« Reply #110 on: December 8, 2014, 06:03:05 pm »
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline sempi

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Re: Mason
« Reply #111 on: December 8, 2014, 08:29:42 pm »
If one goes further back in time, Mason was reffing a game against Fulham: He sent off Carragher even though it was Carra who had been fouled, he then sent off  Phillip  Degen (Remember him!!!!!!!!) for running the ball out play, he'd considered him time wasting, even despite the fact we were losing at the time! He has disallowed other goals in the past for us, though the games themselves escape me.

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Re: Mason
« Reply #112 on: December 8, 2014, 08:32:15 pm »
If one goes further back in time, Mason was reffing a game against Fulham: He sent off Carragher even though it was Carra who had been fouled, he then sent off  Phillip  Degen (Remember him!!!!!!!!) for running the ball out play, he'd considered him time wasting, even despite the fact we were losing at the time! He has disallowed other goals in the past for us, though the games themselves escape me.

Worst I remember at Fulham was Spearing with a fantastic challenge and got sent off, but that you spoke off was shite refereeing.

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Re: Mason
« Reply #113 on: December 8, 2014, 08:38:10 pm »
Worst I remember at Fulham was Spearing with a fantastic challenge and got sent off, but that you spoke off was shite refereeing.
Quite right, I had forgotten that one, I'm sure there are others that people can remember. In that game also Dempsey was allowed to get away with throwing the head in.

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Re: Mason
« Reply #114 on: December 8, 2014, 09:10:53 pm »
Fulham was the worst display of refereeing I had ever seen. I was at a girls flat at Uni before we all went out together and was watching it on my phone. I was going mental ;D
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Re: Mason
« Reply #115 on: December 8, 2014, 09:49:11 pm »
Current crop of refs are the worst I've ever seen and I have been supporting LFC for 50+ years (say that quietly!!). Not just in our games but across the piece.

Time the FA did something about it to be honest.

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Re: Mason
« Reply #116 on: December 8, 2014, 09:53:47 pm »
Current crop of refs are the worst I've ever seen and I have been supporting LFC for 50+ years (say that quietly!!). Not just in our games but across the piece.

Time the FA did something about it to be honest.

Seconded. Hard to find a decent one out of this crop.
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Re: Mason
« Reply #117 on: December 10, 2014, 09:06:56 am »
Quite right, I had forgotten that one, I'm sure there are others that people can remember. In that game also Dempsey was allowed to get away with throwing the head in.
Yeah Bellamy got booked for being loafed by Dempsey who went on to score the winner
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Re: Mason
« Reply #118 on: December 10, 2014, 09:09:12 am »
Current crop of refs are the worst I've ever seen and I have been supporting LFC for 50+ years (say that quietly!!). Not just in our games but across the piece.

Time the FA did something about it to be honest.
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Re: Mason
« Reply #119 on: December 10, 2014, 10:00:12 am »
Current crop of refs are the worst I've ever seen and I have been supporting LFC for 50+ years (say that quietly!!). Not just in our games but across the piece.

Time the FA did something about it to be honest.
nail on head
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR