Topic: Pressing, Pressing, Pressing

[P45]

That's it. The biggest difference to last season and this season, and it was down to Suarez most of the time was pressing the opposition higher up the pitch.

And that's why Suarez was worth the money, he worked 100% for 90 minutes, he chased the ball constantly, he never let the opposition goalkeepers of back four rest with the ball, and that encouraged the whole team to move up the pitch, the opposition would lose the ball and then Coutiniho or Sterling or Hendo would get the ball and we were on the front foot again.  It happened against Ludogrets, and it was Borini coming on that started it, we started pressing higher in their box, and then we score.

If we want to get back to last season, the forwards need to learn to chase the ball anywhere in the opposition half, too many times they drop off and give the oppo centre backs time to get comfortable on the ball and look for a good pass. Fuck that, Mario and Borini and Lambert  have got to learn to never stop chasing the ball, and never to let the other side have time on the ball. Whether they can learn or its just a natural hard work ethic we will have to wait and see, but the forwards are betting running their arses off for 60 minutes and getting subbed, rather than saving their energy to last 90, and  then the whole of the team having to work harder for the 90.

Rush was the same, he harried, and he chased and he always le the back four and the goalie know he was there, the same as Luis, and its no coincidence that they were both world class strikers.

We are better playing Hendo further up the pitch in the role Stevie used to play, because he will give you 90 minutes of pressing.

[SquirrelandGman]

Balo and Lambert will never be that.

Hence why we looked so much better with Sturridge in the team. Hence why we were after sanchez right from the get go.

Well.. You work with what you've got.. And hopefully they can provide 50 percent of what suarez gave on the pitch. And we'll be all right

[Kashinoda]

A promising thread title but it's not 'down to Suarez'.

[SquirrelandGman]

A promising thread title but it's not 'down to Suarez'.

I've never seen a player more determined to win. That's part of his dna but it comes with its flaws with the biting and doing anything for a result.

It's best we just move on and focus on improving with what we've got. Brendan is a great man manager and i've no doubt we'll be better as a team. There's just so many players adjusting to the system.. And it will take a while for us to get to speed.

People need to realise this season was never about challenging for the title. It's about rebuilding and making the next step up next season

[Redman0151]

I've never seen a player more determined to win. That's part of his dna but it comes with its flaws with the biting and doing anything for a result.

It's best we just move on and focus on improving with what we've got. Brendan is a great man manager and i've no doubt we'll be better as a team. There's just so many players adjusting to the system.. And it will take a while for us to get to speed.

People need to realise this season was never about challenging for the title. It's about rebuilding and making the next step up next season

That's the thing though, it doesn't feel like we're adjusting to a system.

It feels like Rodgers has just tried to play the same thing but replace Suarez with Balotelli, and it doesn't work

[P45]

A promising thread title but it's not 'down to Suarez'.

A lot of it is, he worked harder than any other striker and he created so many of his own goals, he was a menace, a physically violent menace, and remember that's not overstating things.

What Brendan has to do is try and instil (some of ) that mentality into the front 3 or 4, they must harry, contest, chase, and annoy their back four whenever they have the ball, and to be fair, Sterling does do his part, and Borini has a go, so its not all bad.

[Tom_B]

A promising thread title but it's not 'down to Suarez'.

It is actually. Not solely down to him, but there are only a handful of strikers in world football who press from the front the way he did. Two who aren't far off came to the Premier League this summer, sadly they went to two of our top 4 rivals.

[SquirrelandGman]

That's the thing though, it doesn't feel like we're adjusting to a system.

It feels like Rodgers has just tried to play the same thing but replace Suarez with Balotelli, and it doesn't work

Yeah it does doesn't it? Hence why Borini suddenly is in the squad cause he provides that energy that Mario doesn't have..

Thing is we played to Suarez and Sturridge's strengths last season. Hopefully Rodgers realises to play to mario's too.

[Redman0151]

Yeah it does doesn't it? Hence why Borini suddenly is in the squad cause he provides that energy that Mario doesn't have..

Thing is we played to Suarez and Sturridge's strengths last season. Hopefully Rodgers realises to play to mario's too.

Indeed, look at the start of last season, we had Sturridge as a lone striker and we made sure we were tight at the back.

Rodgers doesn't have to persist with this ALL OUT ATTACK!! mentality

[Red Genius]

"It's the greatest thing in the world, natural enthusiasm. You are nothing without it."

And the donkey work relies upon having that enthusiasm and desire to win for 90 minutes. For a pressing team having players who put half arsed shifts in means the system will not work, it's not the first press, nor the second that usually dispossesses the opposition, it's the third.

So without collective enthusiasm - take one of those out of the equation and it all goes to pot.

I believe that is partially why we have targeted younger players, they have the legs and the desire and motivation. FSG see it as a growing financial asset, it however does provide the types of players we will need to deliver what we're aiming to achieve, however we need the best of the best younger players if we are to make this work all committed to one single goal.

 

[Groundskeeper Willie]

We don't do pressing anymore, it would seem.

[P45]

Indeed, look at the start of last season, we had Sturridge as a lone striker and we made sure we were tight at the back.

Rodgers doesn't have to persist with this ALL OUT ATTACK!! mentality

Thats Brendans system though, and it worked well last year, we just have to adapt the players we have, if we said that do we have 3 players we could get a third extra out of, then we say we have replaced Suarez. And Sterling has improved, can we make Mario a little more mobile/available, can we get Hendo to start making those runs again, we seem to have lost quite a bit of pace from last year, but Suarez wasnt the fastest?

[Redman0151]

Thats Brendans system though, and it worked well last year, we just have to adapt the players we have, if we said that do we have 3 players we could get a third extra out of, then we say we have replaced Suarez. And Sterling has improved, can we make Mario a little more mobile/available, can we get Hendo to start making those runs again, we seem to have lost quite a bit of pace from last year, but Suarez wasnt the fastest?

Brendan's system when he got here is different than now though, it used to be far more possession based.


The system should be suited to get the best out of the players we have, not the other way around

[P45]

And one other thing, the fans love it, Im a ST holder, and there's nothing better to get the ground going then a good hard work ethic from the players, there's 44000 people in that stadium, and most of them probably know the meaning of hard work, so they can relate to that from the players, and they can applaud that, if we press and work hard the fans are happy, and we will probably win more games, if the team are lazy the fans know that too.

[10 years on]

West ham pressed way better than us even downing ffs 

[Prof]

We've just played back-to-back league games against teams who don't look to keep possession, but break at speed with direct balls and runs.  It's a strange time to criticise pressing.

[Sarge]

A promising thread title but it's not 'down to Suarez'.

[Gnurglan]

It goes deeper than one player. Under Rafa we pressed as a team. With Suarez, we maybe had the player to lead the pressing, but it worked when the rest of the team reacted in sync with him.

Us having many new players could be a reason we struggle to get things right at the moment.

[Redman0151]

It goes deeper than one player. Under Rafa we pressed as a team. With Suarez, we maybe had the player to lead the pressing, but it worked when the rest of the team reacted in sync with him.

Us having many new players could be a reason we struggle to get things right at the moment.

But many of the issues seem to be coming from players who were already here, namely Mignolet, Skrtel, Gerrard, Lucas

[Sarge]

But many of the issues seem to be coming from players who were already here, namely Mignolet, Skrtel, Gerrard, Lucas

And Sakho.

[Red Genius]

We've just played back-to-back league games against teams who don't look to keep possession, but break at speed with direct balls and runs.  It's a strange time to criticise pressing.

Even though its big ole Sam's team, i wouldn't say that would excuse not pressing, they worked our channels from their full backs and through the midfield, if you can press and cut the supply to those preceding passes they can't reach our channels so openly and would probably resort to centre backs punting the ball - so less accurate and more time to anticipate and defend - or nick the ball off them.

They were not 'hit it up to the big guy' team today mate. They were simply direct, and most of it on the deck.

[Gnurglan]

But many of the issues seem to be coming from players who were already here, namely Mignolet, Skrtel, Gerrard, Lucas

Key is I believe it's a team thing. When players get used to each other, we'll be better off.

Our problem now is we have no real strong side to our game. We leak at the back, we are rather toothless up front, etc. Our strength last season was attack. In games like vs Villa and West Ham, we need that to work. And we have been terrible. Most other teams would rely on the defence to work. You do a Villa, sit deep and keep the opponents away. A clean sheet later you have a point or three. We have neither option right now and that needs to change.

[killer-heels]

Key is I believe it's a team thing. When players get used to each other, we'll be better off.

Our problem now is we have no real strong side to our game. We leak at the back, we are rather toothless up front, etc. Our strength last season was attack. In games like vs Villa and West Ham, we need that to work. And we have been terrible. Most other teams would rely on the defence to work. You do a Villa, sit deep and keep the opponents away. A clean sheet later you have a point or three. We have neither option right now and that needs to change.

The attack isn't a long term concern. The last 2 league games we haven't had Sterling, Sturridge and Balotelli together in the correct part of the field, like they were against Spurs. Thus you didn't get the movement, intensity and quality that we saw previously.

Also, we still have an off form Coutinho, rusty Lallana and inexperienced Markovic in backup. All 3 are really good players and I for one am not worried.

Behind that is a concern. I am not obsessed with controlling a game but you have to be able to get a foothold into it and we are just not doing that. Its no surprise that without the energy of Henderson and Allen together, we have struggled. You cannot expect to win a match in this league when you cannot win your battles and Gerrard and Lucas are not doing that.

Further behind, the defence looks really bad.

[P45]

Allen will make a big difference, Hendo and Sterling do press, but they seem predominately right sided players, Allen brings some balance to the left, and will make it harder for defenders to just shift the ball across the back four.

[Geezer08]

The lack of pressing and control is becuase of our poor poor midfield setup and wingers.

And it also comes to the demands from Rodgers and I most say, I dont think he demands enough from his midfield and wingers in regards to pressing. Too often we are too open straight through the middle, see Ludo goal.

It would be interesting to see how much our players run during a game, Jurgen Klopp has the policy/philosophy that all his players should run on average 12 km/game. Midfield and wingers is the area where I want Rodgers to be more demanding. Too often are we bullied in the middle of the park and too easy to hassle.

We need to sort out the midfield, last year we were fortunated that we had Suarez to do the early and constant pressing, but this year there is more responsibility on the midfield players.. Sort it out!!

[Je99ers]

The lack of pressing and control is becuase of our poor poor midfield setup and wingers.

And it also comes to the demands from Rodgers and I most say, I dont think he demands enough from his midfield and wingers in regards to pressing. Too often we are too open straight through the middle, see Ludo goal.

It would be interesting to see how much our players run during a game, Jurgen Klopp has the policy/philosophy that all his players should run on average 12 km/game. Midfield and wingers is the area where I want Rodgers to be more demanding. Too often are we bullied in the middle of the park and too easy to hassle.

We need to sort out the midfield, last year we were fortunated that we had Suarez to do the early and constant pressing, but this year there is more responsibility on the midfield players.. Sort it out!!

Absolutely in agreement with you.    The midfield is the biggest problem, but not definitely the defence and the attack.   I don't understand that some comments were based on the blame of the defence.  Liverpool need three midfielders to help the defence and attack.   Fullbacks should not run lots of forwarding runs in their own half.   

The diamond formation does not work against the park-the-bus opponents that Aston Villa and West Ham has done that.

I would prefer the formation:-

- RB - CD - CD - LB -

            - DM -

- RW - CM - CM - LW -

              - F - 

As you can see the formation, RW and LW makes a forwarding run while RB and LB would move along with DM to hold the defence line.   That's the way that the attacking formation would be:-

         - CB - CB -

     - RB - DM - LB -

         - CM - CM -

      - RW - F - LW -

Regarding F, whenever Sturridge is absent, Sterling should take over.   I dunno about Baloteli because I think he look lost at the moment.  I'd never go for either Lambert or Borini as they will not make a difference at all.   I just wish that Liverpool could have different strikers that I'd be happy for Liverpool to sign but it's not in my power anyway.

[deano2727]

The pressing was what made us so formidable last year, and is why we got off to such quick, rampant starts.

Its sickening how much we have regressed.

[P45]

Better again today, mainly down to Lallana, and Henderson put in a good shift today, it makes a difference when you have players like lallana and hendo who have the ability to keep running.

Our pace really shows when we the ball deep in their half, the opposition don't have time to get players back, and we can make the most of the pace of Sterling and lallana, but we still need to press harder all the game.

It gets the crowd going more than anything else, you know the crowd appreciate hard work, and they get behind every player who does work hard.

[Durlmints]

Missed a golden opportunity to call this thread "The Pressing Issue".

Unforgivable.

[ShayGuevara]

I think we'll find fitness has been the reason for our poor start and our pressing will improve as the season goes on. My guess anyhow.

[DanA]

Was it just me or did Coutinho play the deeper midfield role with Henderson more the AM. I thought it worked well with a positive effect on the pressing side of things,  I think had we a bit of pace in the striker position we'd have taken advantage of what was a promising pressing performance.  We'll definitely look better with Sturridge back in the team, probably better again with Allen instead of Coutinho as he's defensively a little stronger and has a better work rate. But all in all there were positives to take out of the game against Westbrom

[Juan Loco]

Funnily enough at this time last year, and for a long while after that too, I remember people pointing out we weren't pressing aggressively or playing at a particularly high tempo.

[ShayGuevara]

Funnily enough at this time last year, and for a long while after that too, I remember people pointing out we weren't pressing aggressively or playing at a particularly high tempo.

It's actually quite clear when you watch the players, they are stuffed. It worked for us last season with an easy start, this season we've struggled to match the physicality of the sides we've played early on (Southampton/Villa/West Ham), all fit sides who work hard for each other.

I'm not denying there hasn't been other problems that have led to our poor start (ie. team cohesion, movement up top, set pieces) but I think last season we were scraping over the line in much easier fixtures so it's not surprise we've struggled early this year in a much tougher start.

Will be interesting to see if we pick up after the international break and beyond that will be peak after Christmas similar to last year also.

[P45]

Funnily enough at this time last year, and for a long while after that too, I remember people pointing out we weren't pressing aggressively or playing at a particularly high tempo.

That was because Suarez was still out, he came back ,and his work rate encouraged everyone else to start pressing higher.

[killer-heels]

That was because Suarez was still out, he came back ,and his work rate encouraged everyone else to start pressing higher.

Or it could be that we are lacking some confidence so don't want to get caught out. Fucking hell, it's like Suarez did fucking everything for us with some people.

[P45]

Or it could be that we are lacking some confidence so don't want to get caught out. Fucking hell, it's like Suarez did fucking everything for us with some people.

Suarez worked harder than Our current forwards, that's why he was worth so much, and yes its not about Suarez, its about finding the things we did differently last year and replicating them, and we need our current forwards to work harder, pressing and putting the opponents under pressure and the midfield to move up and help them out with a wolf pack mentality.

The only way to restore confidence is to score goals and win games, and we were better at it last year because we defended higher up the field, and we wanted the ball no matter who had, and that is so obviously missing this year.

[killer-heels]

Suarez worked harder than Our current forwards, that's why he was worth so much, and yes its not about Suarez, its about finding the things we did differently last year and replicating them, and we need our current forwards to work harder, pressing and putting the opponents under pressure and the midfield to move up and help them out with a wolf pack mentality.

The only way to restore confidence is to score goals and win games, and we were better at it last year because we defended higher up the field, and we wanted the ball no matter who had, and that is so obviously missing this year.

That will come when the confidence increases.

[Bolrick]

I am sure there is another suarez out there...younger and cheaper. The scouts just have to do a better job to find him.

Diego Costa is basically doing what suarez was doing last season....pressing the opposition defenders and not giving them a moment of peace. And he was bought for 32M.

So there are players there. We have just have to be more smart in picking them up. So I expect our next marquee signing to be a top striker in the mould of Suarez if Rodgers wants to get back to last seasons dynamic/cutting edge football.

In the mean time.....maybe Rodgers can mould Sturridge into Suarez mark 2. Get Sturridge to not give the opposition defence a moment of peace.

[Juan Loco]

That was because Suarez was still out, he came back ,and his work rate encouraged everyone else to start pressing higher.

No. I know it's lovely for everyone to be able to associate all our ills to the loss of Suarez, but there was plenty of complaining about our lack of pressing even when he was back in the team. Suarez would chase down players, but he did that under Kenny too. At this point last year there was little evidence of our own super aggressive style of play. That came from about half way through the season til the end.

If PoP was still about I'm sure he'd start talking periodization and all that. Whatever it is, there's no real difference in our aggression out of possession to this point last season.

[Just Dan]

Suarez set the tone and the others followed.

OK maybe Balotelli and Lambert can't or don't press as much as Suarez. But they HAVE pressed. Its really not like they are strolling around for 90 with their hands on their hips.

The problem is that the second wave isn't following as much. Its a collective effort.