Topic: Jesús Joaquín Fernández Sáez de la Torre (Suso)

[AlanK]

Somewhere like Swansea would suit Suso, I feel.

Totally off topic, but who's that in your avatar?

[Yorkykopite]

A loan deal to Southampton sounds good. Would they be interested, though?

I don't know. Can you organise it?

[lessthanmatt]

Totally off topic, but who's that in your avatar?

It's Carlos Puyol after using his Babyliss hair straighteners.

[trembles97]

No it won't.

It would be better than him spending his weekends in the Anfield stands, which he is going to do if he stays here. It's pretty difficult to get a loan to a Premier League club, and then on top of that establish himself in whatever team he goes too.

He just needs games.

[Discipline]

I don't know. Can you organise it?

That would depend on if they're interested or not.

[rowan_d]

Totally off topic, but who's that in your avatar?

Emma Watson

[Coolie High]

It would be better than him spending his weekends in the Anfield stands, which he is going to do if he stays here. It's pretty difficult to get a loan to a Premier League club, and then on top of that establish himself in whatever team he goes too.

He just needs games.

We don't need to send him to a championship club, i think a couple teams in the La Liga would take him even if know no one in the premiership does come for him.

And he just doesn't need games, he needs games with the right club and at the right level.

[MobileBayRed]

Wasn't there talk about a potential loan deal with Olympiakos earlier?  Guess that died on the vine.

[sparrowred]

Starting in the opening U20 World Cup match today against the U.S.

[Upinsmoke]

Suso playing well. One brilliant bit of skill out wide too

[Max_powers]

Has looked very very good so far. Best player on the pitch alongside Deulofeu.

[Cpt_Reina]

Bossing it tonight.

[JustDan]

Thought this was starting at half 7.. turned it on just now & turns out I missed the whole first half..

[El_Pelusa_10]

Suso absolutely running riot in this game..... Great ball for the 3rd goal! Hope he can get a loan next season because he needs regular games

[johnhouldinglfc]

Spain 3-0 up against the US

Strange sort of game.

Spain scored after 5 minutes and got the 2nd and 3rd goals after the 40 minute mark.

Spain looked complacent for a long stretch after the first goal and the US sorta got into the game a bit but without really threatening all that much and had only one decent chance. The US looked a long way behind in terms of technique and they were a fair few miss hit passes when they got into decent positions.

Suso was playing on the right-wing and was very solid throughout and had a fair few moments of decent quality including a nice shot on target that the keeper finger tipped away. He had a number of decent long passes including one lovely one to open up the space for the 3rd goal. Showed some nice close control by the end line to create a decent Spanish chance. Overall probably Spain 2nd most impressive performer after Delefou who probably edged things by getting a goal and assist.

I didnt think much of the Spanish midfield and thought they looked very complacent for long stretches.

[DangerScouse]

@MostarLFC: VIDEO: Suso vs USA U20. Great Game by Liverpool youngster. Enjoy... http://t.co/IaqNO5xtJJ #LFC

[Anonymous5]

We have a real talented player on our hands, if we decide to loan him, he needs to go to the right club.

[Xxavi]

Suso was great, but he didn't really boss the midfield. It wasn't may be his job, it was more of Campana's and Oliver Torres'. And Saul's. Only then, Suso's. However, in the second half, Suso really started playing midfielder.

He showed good movement, some nice dribbles and passes. But he should take the game by scruff of the neck and become a leader.

[DanA]

He's improving rapidly. People are writing him off from making an impact this season far too early. He's still a teenager with a lot of improvement in him. It may be that the best thing for him is to go out on loan but he's got the entire preseason to prove worthy of a prominent role in the first team and he could very well do that.

[jooneyisdagod]

He's the best prospect we've got.  Others may stand out for their pace but I haven't seen any player since Wilshere and Sturridge at a youth level and immediately thought 'Fucking hell, this kid looks outstanding'. Apart from Suso. He's had his ups and downs but he has also improved by and large during his time at Liverpool.  He's clearly gained a bit of strength now and the US seemed a pretty physical team and he hacked it against them.

By the way, first time I saw Sturridge was when he came on as a substitute for the senior team against Boro or someone, can't remember and he absolutely ran rings around their defence for a few minutes. 

[Discipline]

He's the best prospect we've got.  Others may stand out for their pace but I haven't seen any player since Wilshere and Sturridge at a youth level and immediately thought 'Fucking hell, this kid looks outstanding'. Apart from Suso. He's had his ups and downs but he has also improved by and large during his time at Liverpool.  He's clearly gained a bit of strength now and the US seemed a pretty physical team and he hacked it against them.

By the way, first time I saw Sturridge was when he came on as a substitute for the senior team against Boro or someone, can't remember and he absolutely ran rings around their defence for a few minutes.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sterling's better.

EDIT: Not to say Suso isn't good of course - he is. But he's not the best prospect at the club.

[jooneyisdagod]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sterling's better.

EDIT: Not to say Suso isn't good of course - he is. But he's not the best prospect at the club.

Let's agree to disagree there.  I don't think Sterling is better at all.


Edit:  Sterling was the more mature player when they both made it to the first team though.

[Livo.85]

@MostarLFC: VIDEO: Suso vs USA U20. Great Game by Liverpool youngster. Enjoy... http://t.co/IaqNO5xtJJ #LFC

[Aido LFC]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Sterling's better.

EDIT: Not to say Suso isn't good of course - he is. But he's not the best prospect at the club.

Suso is our best prospect, ability wise 100%.

[john_mac]

Let's agree to disagree there.  I don't think Sterling is better at all.

I think that Sterling has been the highest rated youngster at the club in reent years, certainly amongst the staff, even if elements of RAWK may have had 20 to 30 that at one time or another have ranged from being rated in the Norman Whiteside 1982 World Cup mode through to the goalscoring genius that was Robbie Fowler. We have aenormous apetite for building up our young players beyond reasonable expectation to only write them off when, once given a slightest of opportunties in the last five minutes of a league cup game, they inetivably fail to live up to the unreasonable happy, being weighed down by that same heavy burden of expectation.

Suso's first performances last season were perfectly fine for a teenager making his first steps into the Premier league, I'm sure that all of the coaching staff would be perfectly happy with that. Had he done the same at Seville or Malaga, the same people clamouring for him to be loaned would be equally enamoured with Brendan delivering his signature by the end of the day.

Personally think that he'll have a role to play and that Brendan has shown a willingness to give players an opportunity, more than happy for him with Rodolfo to call the shots on Suso's development. The obsession with loans to x, y and z club is just another phase of the RAWK footy manager project, The "a loan spell  at Wigan would do him wonders" brigade, lets be honest here there's not a fucken sole on here who has a clue whether Suso would be better off at Southampton, Espanol or Liverpool next season.

The same fellas who tried to convince us that Danni Pachecco would return from Norwich better than Messi and that Jack Robinson's Wolves form would put Barney Rubble's Paris goal in the shade, are now convincing us that Suso's progress has stalled, it has not. He has continued to progress since his arrival and the coaching team are in a decent position to establish his long term potential and the best next steps, whatever that may be, Wigan, Watford, Levante, Osasuna or Liverpool reserves, I haven't a fucken clue, but the lad has got plenty of talent and will get opportunities with Liverpool if that development continues, regardless of how FIFA 2013-14 develops.

 

[Mr_Morosoph]

Completely agree with john, especially about the obsession with loans. I argued the point in the youth/reserve thread a few weeks ago about Coady would be best staying here and not going on loan due to his rapid progression over the last year since he's started training regularly with the first team.

I think some people assume that players are always going to come back from loan spells much better players when they could learn just as much if not more training regularly with better players. Every player is different.

[DanA]

Well I almost completely disagree with John Mac. It's a mine field of truths that almost everyone agrees on, followed up with either; a straw man argument or snide sarcastic comment belittling the opinion contrary to his. I read that post and essentially the way I read it it's arguing that people here that believe Suso would benefit from going on loan either are;
A. A Fifa player
B. A Football Manager player
C. Someone who has a past history of wild irrational opinions

If this is his argument then I think he's wrong. Maybe it's true for a very small minority but i'm doubtful that's the case for the vast majority of people that share that opinion.

[bigbear]

I disagree with John. We're all entitled to an opinion and his is well formed based on watching a range of ages at the academy.

However, not too many players come through at the bigger clubs with big squads these days (of which we are one) without going out on loan at some stage. A loan doesn't guarantee anything and there can be good loans and bad loans but finding game time is not easy.

Suso did great last season, it was definitely a break through season and if he got the same amount of game time this season then it would be an equally good year in his development. However, not only where we desperately short up front with only Suarez fit as a recognized striker, we also had UEFA Cup football which meant and would mean this year, 8-10 definite games he could start in this side of Christmas plus League Cup plus bench time in the League.

For me that is plenty of football for a 20 year old but we haven't got that this year and since then he is now also competing with Coutinho, Aspas, Alberto in those attacking positions as well as Borini getting fit and Downing getting rated by the manager. It will be really difficult for him to get games.

For me, Susp has so much talent that he needs to work out how to influence games all the time and impose that talent on matches. It's hard to do that in training and he is already way too good for the 21's.

I think he does need a loan and would benefit from going to a good Championship club who want to play and give him the ball.

PS. If anyone doesn't think that Robinson and Pacheco have gained enormous benefit from their recent loans they are hugely mistaken. For Pacheco it's too late for LFC and maybe for Robinson but I guarantee you that Jack at least has taken enormous benefit from playing week in week out against men and realizing how fortunate he is to be playing football at a club like Liverpool.

[swordfishtrombone]

What's that Alex Inglethorpe fella doing talking about sending some of our young players out on loan? What does he know?

[Cpt_Reina]

Worth a repost.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XRmJ4pKVg80?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/XRmJ4pKVg80?fs=1</a>

Think this is a good example of why I'd like to see Suso line up in a genuine CM position more often.

Almost without fail he will have a few moments of quality in the final third, as he did yesterday. In the end though, nothing much came of them in terms of an end product. Be it because of Suso himself being unable to beat the 'keeper or a teammate not applying the final flourish.

He has good periods in those attacking positions, but when he has the pitch in front of him he has moments of genuine quality. The standard of his contribution is just of a higher standard when he the one releasing an attacking player, rather than attempting to be one himself.

The weight of his passing along with his ability to see the play develop in front of him are his strongest attributes imho. Both are best served in a deeper position. As is his spacial awareness.

I feel as if you get all of the good stuff he shows around the box when playing deeper, the drop of the shoulder, the ability to escape his marker, with the added benefit that he then has a greater scope for showing what he's best at. Which is setting people away and getting attacks started.

[Mr_Morosoph]

What's that Alex Inglethorpe fella doing talking about sending some of our young players out on loan? What does he know?

Yeah, I don't think anyone is arguing against the loan system altogether.

It's probably a good time for players like Adorjan or Sama to go out on loan, players who've been playing reserve football for a few years and are still no closer to the first team.

[TtotheVizzo]

With the addition of Aspas & Alberto, Suso's path to the first team looks more difficult than ever, I can't see him getting games ahead of them and Coutinho, who Rodgers will no doubt favour because they're his signings.

Luckily there's quite a few decent footballing teams in the prem now, Swansea, Southampton, Norwich, Palace, Cardiff could all be good places to send Suso to get a good run of games and I think without European football a loan would be his best bet.

[RedHopper]

It was clear watching last night that last season we were playing him 15-20 yards too far up the pitch, and that we were making a promising central midfielder look bad by trying to make a winger out of him. Another couple of performances like last night at this tournament, and we should start clearing a path for him to the first team squad. He was doing things last night with the ball that jonjo shelvey or jay spearing couldn't do on an Xbox. Perhaps a half season loan, before starting to stick him into the first team in the second half of the season might well be in order, as we won't know how good he is, until we start giving him a proper go in his best position.

[Upinsmoke]

It was clear watching last night that last season we were playing him 15-20 yards too far up the pitch, and that we were making a promising central midfielder look bad by trying to make a winger out of him. Another couple of performances like last night at this tournament, and we should start clearing a path for him to the first team squad. He was doing things last night with the ball that jonjo shelvey or jay spearing couldn't do on an Xbox. Perhaps a half season loan, before starting to stick him into the first team in the second half of the season might well be in order, as we won't know how good he is, until we start giving him a proper go in his best position.

Eh, clearly watched zero footage then as between himself Jese and deluwhatever he was extremely advanced. Infact he had the freedom of the whole pitch, he was on the right, he was deep, he was playing just in behind the furthest attacker. He was everywhere. The kid is so versatile.

[Dale Doback]

Obligatory Alberto blocking Suso's first team path post

[b_joseph]

Eh, clearly watched zero footage then as between himself Jese and deluwhatever he was extremely advanced. Infact he had the freedom of the whole pitch, he was on the right, he was deep, he was playing just in behind the furthest attacker. He was everywhere. The kid is so versatile.

I think what he means though is that the way we used him for the 1st team was too structured. He'd be sent wide right ( most of the time it seemed ) and stayed there.
Where as ideally,like you said, he needs to have a freedom of movement to affect the game where he so pleases. Last night was a clinic for him...looked a lot like David Silva.

[L.Suarez]

Obligatory Alberto blocking Suso's first team path post

Coutinho -- Alberto -- Suso

[Sgt. Pepper]

Couldn't agree more and I think that having Suso & Hendo competing for the CM role is the way forward (post-Stevie era).
I'd still like for him to have a full season out on-loan in that position before occupying it for us.

[apocalypse]

Not having a go at Suso. Were we to expect less from him playing USA U20? thought it was already agreed that at similar level (U21 football) he is very good.
What he needs is senior football against "men". Manchester Utd and Arsenal did that with with their promising midfielders, Cleverly and Sir Wilshire, and that did loads of good.

[johnhouldinglfc]

Personally think that he'll have a role to play and that Brendan has shown a willingness to give players an opportunity, more than happy for him with Rodolfo to call the shots on Suso's development. The obsession with loans to x, y and z club is just another phase of the RAWK footy manager project, The "a loan spell  at Wigan would do him wonders" brigade, lets be honest here there's not a fucken sole on here who has a clue whether Suso would be better off at Southampton, Espanol or Liverpool next season.

The thing is there was a marked decline in the amount of game time Suso got in the 2nd half of the season after Coutinho and Sturridge arrived.

4 appearances totaling 99 minutes in 2013 compared to 817 minutes in 2012 over 16 appearances.

This season we have less games with no European action.

A lot of Suso's playing time came when our wide options were a 17 year old Sterling, Downing whose performances were so poor he was shifted to left-back on occasion, Enrique, and both Assaidi and Pacheco who both Rodgers didnt rate and himself. We tried Henderson and Shelvey in there as well.

From all indications we will have much stronger attacking options next season ; we already have Alberto confirmed, Aspas just needs to sort out some paperwork, and both Mkhitaryan and Atsu are serious targets.

Obviously loans are a risk but the odds are substantially higher that Suso would pick up a far greater amount of competitive game time by going on loan next season which would benefit his career long-term that staying at Melwood. ( I don't think a 4th season playing reserve football is going to do all that much for his long-term development)  I think he is at a stage where he needs a serious chunk of game time and the odds of him getting that next season at Liverpool are extremely remote.