Author Topic: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits  (Read 4460 times)

Offline codger

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Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« on: February 19, 2005, 09:18:50 am »
There has been some criticism this year of Rafa's preference for signing players from the Spanish League - just as there was for Gerard Houllier's French Brigade. But how different is this from the common policy of managers using players from their old clubs?

Brian Clough took John McGovern with him wherever he went; from Derby to Leeds and onto Forest. Not the most talented or stylish payer, McGovern was trusted by Cloughie though not by the Leeds fans, who barracked the future European Cup winner.

Other managers have had their favouties who followed them around too. One of the first things Howard Kendall did was bring Glen Keeley from Blackburn to join him at Everton. Though of course, that move back-fired when the centre-half apparently forgot about the automatic red card for deliberately chopping a striker going clear on goal. Rush went down, Keeley went off, and the rest is history .... Rush scored 1, Rush scored 2, Rush scored 3 and Rush scored 4 .... coming from Division 2, Keeley had no experience of the new rule: great pick Howard!.

But usually there's nothing wrong with this practice: it gives a new manager (especially) someone he knows he can rely on. It explains why Rafa keeps picking Garcia, even when he has had a bad day. And why Pellegrino has come; not just as cover, but maybe as a future coach. Managers from Scotland have traditonally picked Scots. Shankly's first major signings were St. John and Yeats. Those managers with lower division experience who take over in the top flight have often returned to seek players from the division they've left.

Part of the reason LFC appointed Gerard Houllier was, in my opinion, so we could start signing some of the young French talent then being scooped up by Arsene Wenger. Roy Evans had seemed to pick his foreigners from a catalogue; and none too successfully. Unfortunately most of our French guys have turned out to be duds too (though - hopefully - Cisse isn't one; and Sinama-Pongolle and/or Le Tallec will come through).

Players from abroad can take a while to settle, to adjust to the quicker pace etc. As Jimmy Armfield said; "It's not the South of France is it?" But it has to be remembered there've been plenty of British and Irish players who take time to settle too; it took Stevie Finnan a year after all and he now looks an excellent buy.

The objection to some of the Spanish lads (well,  Garcia anyway) is that they can't handle the more 'physical' nature of the Premier League. Luis Garcia is often described as too 'lightweight'. But he's a ball-player FFS, not Steve McMahon!  And this isn't the 60s or 70s; you don’t have too many cloggers like 'Chopper' Harris (or Tommy Smith). In theory you can't even tackle from behind now (though Xabi may disagree).  And 'The Ball-players Guide to Survival' no longer requires being handcuffed to the ref.

On TV last week, Martin Jol referred to a Stevie G challenge as a 'leg-breaker'; something to be avoided by both parties. Maybe he was right. In England, perhaps we over-rate the ability to clatter opponents up the terracing, although I can think of a few Italian and Argentinian hard men whom you wouldn't want to meet in a dark penalty area (the odd Spaniard too, come to that; there was the guy at Bilbao who really left his mark on Maradona).

My problem with Garcia is more his tendency to give the ball away cheaply when not under real pressure than being a so-called lightweight. The little flicks and touches can open up a defence when played in and around the box; but on halfway, a mistake which gives away possession can lead to disaster - or at least a soft goal as v Fulham. LG has given us some magic moments; that pirouette and cross for Morientes' glorious header; that brilliant lob v Norwich. He's often infuriating, but he is a real talent, and he's good fun to watch! How many recent LFC players can you say that of? He just needs to be more careful about when and to whom he passes the ball.

Dunno if Garcia really IS the beach boy in the title of this article; doubt if we'll see him at Southport somehow. And if asked if would you rather have had Sean Wright Phillips (or Ronaldo) we'd answer "Too right!" But then I'd rather have the £20 million we’d need to buy them too; but we don't.

And the other Spaniards? Garcia's compatriot Josemi is more psychotic than timid (I think Jamie Carragher has him  tied up in a cellar somewhere; and with any luck, he's lost the key). Xabi: come back soon FFS. Fernando is total class. We were dead lucky to get him.

I'd prefer to have an English (and better still, Scouse) core to the Liverpool team. The  trouble is that the bastards keep legging it to Madrid; can't imagine why. Which will probably leave us soon with just Carra, the captain in waiting. Maybe we'll have to settle for just good players rather than local players; shame!

On the domestic front Spurs seem to have snaffled up all the young affordable English (or at least Britsh/Irish) talent in the Leagues recently. Perhaps we missed a trick there, but it's a bit late for regrets. Carson's signing shows Benitez won't entirely neglect the local market; but these guys have to be better than those on offer elsewhere, it's no good buying them just because they're "local".

Going back to Garcia it's worth remembering that he had to be prised away from Barca; at the time, they wanted to keep him as he had been one of the key figures in their revivial last season. And that £6 million fee was the amount needed to trigger a release clause in his contract. As late as August 18th, Luis was still saying: "I am staying at Barca…. I have spoken with Beguiristain and Rijkaard and they have assured me that the club is counting on me this season."

It was because he'd worked with Garcia at Tenerife that Benitez was so keen to sign him for LFC. Not because he was Spanish. At times we may wish Rafa hadn't bothered; but it's still early days and there's been many promising glimpses.

© codger 2005
« Last Edit: February 20, 2005, 11:57:41 pm by Rushian »

Offline Hattori Hanzo

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 09:57:30 am »
luis garcia is one of my favorite players at liverpool, yeah he gives the bal away sometimes and cheaply at that - but he is also statistically our best tackler and has also scored/assisted some wonderful goals (who can forget the beauty against charlton?)

we really need to focus on what our team can do - not just what they cant, if we can play to our strengths and not just play any other way than our weakness then we will be a better team for it,

i wish we had a good right midfielder because behind the striker (with a full squad) he is a quality player

Offline 18-4

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2005, 01:56:20 pm »
I agree that as part of an attacking triangle Garcia could be a class act. He's taken a while to adjust to the Premiership and it hasn't helped that he's sometimes on the wing and at other times the second striker. 

Too many people have regarded him as a striker and I think he's had a lot of stick because his finishing isn't what you expect from a striker.  However, if he's thought of as an attacking midfielder (which is what he is) his strike rate isn't bad.


Offline Hinesy

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2005, 02:04:01 pm »
lovely title to the post by the way.
Yep.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 02:08:24 pm »
Garcia has done well this season in my opinion. Tries hard, scores goals, takes on players, etc. If he loses the ball, thats part and parcel of a flair players game. United don't moan when Scholes or Ronaldo lose a ball, they just win it back...
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline Alf

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 03:24:23 pm »
Xabi Alonso & Fernando Morientes were both world class signings and most of us know that.

Josemi is a hard man and doesn't lack the bottle required in the English Premiership but what he does lack is the pace and positioning required to deal with the likes of Stewart Downing, Damien Duff and Ryan Giggs.

The jury is still out on Luis Garcia IMO. Fantastic strikes against Charlton & Norwich have been marred by abysmal displays at home against Man Utd & at Southampton. Most of us agree that Garcia is better suited to a more central role than out on the right wing.

Whether or not he is a success at LFC depends on if he can compete physically in the Premiership in central midfield and remain injury free. If he can we have an excellent player on our hands if not we have another Vladimir Smicer and one of them is more than enough.

I'll reserve judgement on Nunez until the end of the season because of the time he has missed so far this season with injury and suspension.


Offline codger

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 09:03:20 pm »
I'm conflicted about Luis G myself.
He's a player who has me screaming at the TV screen one moment; and applauding the next.

Tuesday will be my first livegame since September; so I've not had to watch him screw up like v Fulham.  But I saw him score a couple of lovely goals back then, and those tend to stay in your memory.

Did we really want to watch Spittles and Salif Diao all season?  And Carra and JAR standing on halfway, while 2 or (maybe 4) players take on the whole of the opposition?

Offline codger

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 09:08:48 pm »
FAO Rushian:

Cheers for the edit

It reads a lot better now

Offline jfpower

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 06:20:17 am »
Good article.

Good to see some positives about Garcia.

Lets not forget that he was being compared to King Kenny earlier in the season.

While Garcia will never be a Dagleish, I am looking forward to his development, as he is willing to try something different.Hopefully, he will come into his own the longer he plays for us.

Offline RogerE

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2005, 04:33:03 pm »
Whether or not he is a success at LFC depends on if he can compete physically in the Premiership in central midfield and remain injury free. If he can we have an excellent player on our hands if not we have another Vladimir Smicer and one of them is more than enough.

:)


I'd love it if we could get a proper world class winger of any nationality (although I saw Solari on telly the other night and he was rubbish) because wingers add a different dimension to any team. Chelsea have got Robben and Duff, the Mancs have got Giggs and Ronaldo (how about his cross for the first goal on Saturday!) and I thought Kewell would do it for us but due to injury / lack of confidence / lack of form he hasn't. For some reason Houllier didn't like wingers (ok, maybe Ginola was the reason) and would try strikers like Heskey and Diouf out wide instead of buying somebody like Duff, then when we did get Kewell he said that he saw him playing "in the hole"! I think Rafa does like wingers but he hasn't got a good one yet, Nunez is at best mediocre.

Offline Darren Page1

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2005, 05:04:53 pm »
for me Garcia has shown enough to be given the time to try to adapt and adjust--cant say the same for Nunez. I actually thought the problem was that hes supposed to be a winger but when your attack  is Baros and pongolle--not much point in crossing anyway as they arent going to win too many headers--but then Nando came and im still not seeing anything that warrants a "give him time rememebr it took Pires a year "card

Offline gerry7

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 08:30:54 am »
I know people are sick of hearing of the "it took pires a year"quote,but its true.LG can drive you mad sometimes,but I think his workrate is very good.Sure he sometimes gives the ball away too easily but he doesn't hide.He tries to keep involved in the game.I think when the spring weather kicks in,we will see a better LG.

Offline codger

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Re: Beach boys and hard men; the Spanish Armada and True Brits
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2005, 03:33:19 pm »
Well the beachboy from Badalona didn't have his best game

But he did score another beauty
And all we heard (alright, it was me too) was 'EEGORR EEEGORR'
 
O well