Author Topic: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC  (Read 62752 times)

Offline robgomm

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #120 on: November 4, 2013, 11:29:07 am »
Quote
He's not known for being a powerhouse / big tackler or even covering the spaces left for others. Do we really need a powerhouse midfielder when quality players can play like this?

He (Arteta) has the second highest pass success rate in the league but he's also 14th for tackles per game and Ramsey is second. We don't need the powerhouse, we need someone prepared to win the ball back but who is highly technically skilled in possession. Lucas is perhaps the best we have at this as he keeps the ball really well generally but whether he's physically at his best I don't know. One thing's for sure is that Arteta has a bucaneering Ramsey next to him and Lucas has a 33 year old Gerrard. That's not a knock on Gerrard, it just makes things trickier for Lucas who seems to be playing some sort of in between role of doing his own job and trying to do other peoples.

Offline Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #121 on: November 4, 2013, 11:29:59 am »
As far as tactical analysis go, I´m not very smart. But tactics aside, I think we have a problem, or two rather, on our hands in central midfield. Both saddened, frustrated and annoyed with Gerrard and Lucas on Saturday.

Remembering how good Gerrard once was, I´m saddened to watch him from time to time now. The game passed him by, couldn´t keep up. The fact that Lucas is nowhere near his pre- injury level doesn´t help. Add to that the, for me, obvious lack of understanding between them, it´s not going to go well. Don´t get me wrong, Gerrard still has a big part to play for us, but there are games when he should be used differently or not at all.

Annoyed because the pair of them seemed almost un- arsed at times. When Stevie decides to walk back, when a hard sprint is required, I´m almost popping a vein.

Same goes for Lucas really. The pair of them as a partnership is working and something´s got to give. I do think that we´ll see a midfielder or two come in in January. Rodgers has strenghtened us in attack and defense so far, so it´s logical that midfield is next.


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« Last Edit: November 4, 2013, 11:38:34 am by Groundskeeper Willie »
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Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #122 on: November 4, 2013, 11:41:30 am »
To be honest, I think this is a pretty strange Round Table, which reminded me on the time around christmas in Kennys second season where it was pretty obvious something was going wrong and nobody wanted to have a look at it. Just this time, it´s the other way around and I really wonder if people actually watched the game or just refuse to look at what actually happened on the pitch rather then writing their own, very "personal" interpretation on it.

Anyway, I watched the game with a Newcastle mate and he was, just as myself, pretty impressed from the performances of both teams in the first half. A top game, flexible defending lines, pressing, players trying to keep possession and some great individual stuff from some players. Yes, there are limitations in our game and they are pretty obvious for everybody to see but it´s not anywhere that bad as people make it out to be. We beat West Brom with ease last week and for sure were NOT outplayed by a great Arsenal side who were the better team against Dortmund last week. What else do people expect? It´s too early for unrealistic expectations and this game was exactly what we could possibly expect, with a little luck even a win would have been possible but for whatever reasons they, Arsenal, were able to take their chances whereas Sturridge and Suarez had a bad day at the office with their finishing.

What makes me scratching my head evenmore when reading this thread though how people bring up 1001 arguments and excuses to look away from the obivous... Lucas or Skrtel again to be on fault for the first goal? Really? Do people actually believe this bullshite? Gerrard lost a runner from midfield, not for the first time this season and to me it´s amazing how people try to take any tiny little possiblity to shift the blame away from our captain.  We don´t have an overall problem as a team rather than one with the form of some individual players. With Gerrard, his legs are gone and no overanalysing or taking game situations out of context will solve this problem.

Gerrard won´t be benched, that´s for sure, not against teams like Fulham and for that even much less in those big games, so the players will have to make up yards for the captain in defending in addition in order to get the results we need. And I hope there will be a right full back coming in during the next transfer window, Johnsons mysterious injury may give a hint that the physical requirements of the PL are a little to much for him at the moment.

The positives though are clear to see, we don´t have problems with our overall play anymore, no major tactical issues, the overall quality of the squad is on a good level and as a consequence we made it third of the table after ten games. Glas half full, no doubt about that.  :)
« Last Edit: November 4, 2013, 11:51:31 am by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #123 on: November 4, 2013, 11:44:51 am »
But it is true that both Shanks & Bob attacked more often than not. Obviously 3-5-2 is no guarantee of success. I said we should have competed better in our own half and mayby a 4th midfielder, might have kept them at bay. Did we need 3 center backs against an Arsenal team that rely on their great interplay in front of any back 4.

I think Rodgers was well aware of the dangers Arsenal present but was confident we could keep them out but we were outplayed from the edge of the center circle to the edge of our box.

We just didn't shut down their engine room, largely because we wre a man light but on a different day we might have nicked one early on, but we didn't and lost.

No real damage done, just need better quality in midfield. Might solve that problem in January.

The question I was posing Fred was should Brendan and his management team have been able to predict how it would unveil itself on the night by fielding the 3-5-2 against such a fluid and technical midfield with such a superb in form centre forward feeding them and two terrific full backs providing them width?

You yourself have stated your pre-match misgivings so should we expect more insightful management of the situation from our management?

Perhaps he and the other coaches genuinely believed our display against West brom signalled we had reached a level of collective and individual team performance that could match them on the day? And, as it turned out, they were wrong.

But could we have guaranteed [as far as metballs bouncing goes] that we prise at least a point and deprived them of two by a formation that stifled them. Given how we all now know how Arsenal perform from watching that game we can see that it probably wouldn't be the most difficult of tactical operations to stifle them. It would have meant four at the back, five across the middle and just one up front but it would have frustrated the fuck out of arsenal rather than playing into their hands. 

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #124 on: November 4, 2013, 11:51:16 am »
[we] for sure were NOT outplayed by a great Arsenal side

Is that honestly how you saw it steve?

I know we could - and should - have scored and that had we done so possibly even won given everything falling right for us instead of for them. But did you really see it that we weren't outplayed?

Offline CLOCKSPEED

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #125 on: November 4, 2013, 11:51:51 am »

The positives though are clear to see, we don´t have problems with our overall play anymore, no major tactical issues, the overall quality of the squad is on a good level and as a consequence we made it third of the table after ten games. Glas half full, no doubt about that.  :)

Disappointing result but you sum up pretty well. Not much between the teams overall could have been 2-2 or 4-2 to them etc etc. Only issue I see is that they will have the money to strengthen/kick on in Jan we will probably not so the likes of Allen/Kelly/Sterling/Wisdom i.e what we have will all have to contribute. It is up to Rodgers to manage that. For me we need to start resting players or we are going to be threadbare come next March or April. FSG have given Rodgers money start of season said heres your squad get on with it so for me ball firmly in Brendan's court now he needs work out tatics/systems  to suit thats what he gets paid to do.


Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #126 on: November 4, 2013, 11:55:06 am »
As far as tactical analysis go, I´m not very smart. But tactics aside, I think we have a problem, or two rather, on our hands in central midfield. Both saddened, frustrated and annoyed with Gerrard and Lucas on Saturday.

Remembering how good Gerrard once was, I´m saddened to watch him from time to time now. The game passed him by, couldn´t keep up. The fact that Lucas is nowhere near his pre- injury level doesn´t help. Add to that the, for me, obvious lack of understanding between them, it´s not going to go well. Don´t get me wrong, Gerrard still has a big part to play for us, but there are games when he should be used differently or not at all.

Annoyed because the pair of them seemed almost un- arsed at times. When Stevie decides to walk back, when a hard sprint is required, I´m almost popping a vein.

Same goes for Lucas really. The pair of them as a partnership is working and something´s got to give. I do think that we´ll see a midfielder or two come in in January. Rodgers has strenghtened us in attack and defense so far, so it´s logical that midfield is next.


There, I´ve said it, throat laid bare, go for the jugular if you wish, but I make no apologies about how I feel.

Well yes both Gerrard and more so Lucas were ambling back as Arsenal's first goal move was progessing. Had either one of them bust a gut to get back they might have stopped Gazorla from getting a free header from the rebound.

Mayby SAS's brilliance have been papering over the cracks. Certainly Gerrard looks good when he is allowed to stroll round the center circle picking out SAS as they go on runs but up against a side that puts us under pressure his energy levels are depleted somewhat.

Results went our way so we shouldn't beat up the team or the manager. Was always a big ask to get something out of the game. Arsenal are capable of competing with the best in Europe. We on the other hand are just about able to compete with the best in the Prem.

Lucky for us we I think, being out of Europe, we should stronger than most but for sure we desperately need better quality in midfield...and a decent left back.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #127 on: November 4, 2013, 11:58:47 am »
Is that honestly how you saw it steve?

I know we could - and should - have scored and that had we done so possibly even won given everything falling right for us instead of for them. But did you really see it that we weren't outplayed?

Ok, not outperformed, is that better? ;)

Seriously, Arsenal is known for their passing first and foremost so when they win they will always "outplay" the other team rather than outpress them like Dortmund, or dominate them like Bayern f.e.

But, especially when comparing this game with our performances against them last season and the one before, we were far from sitting back or pushed back. It was an open game which brought up their strengths and singled out our weakness. But we had the same number of clear opportunities, kept Ozil totally out of the game with only a few occassions where they could continue their passing game in the final third while creating something on our own during the entire game. I thought it wasn´t bad at all.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2013, 12:03:28 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #128 on: November 4, 2013, 12:01:26 pm »
I certainly don't think we were outplayed in the first half. I thought we gave as good as we got. We wasted our most promising situations but there were 2 or 3 clear openings that we contrived to mess up. Yes Arsenal got better as the half went on and played their nice fotball which they were always going to but I went into Half Time thinking we could get something out of the game (obviously the next goal was going to be crucial). I don't think we received a footballing lesson or anything that drastic.

Offline spider-neil

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #129 on: November 4, 2013, 12:03:49 pm »
I thought it was more simple numbers then being outplayed. They had greater numbers in midfield so could simply play around the likes of Lucas rather than engage him. We on the other hand were faced with a red wall when we tried to pass or get the ball to our strikers.

We were outplayed (let's be honest about that) but we played right into Arsenal's hands in the most naive manner possible completely negating our strengths whilst playing to Arsenal's. We could play the same game with the same squad and with selective changes to the formation and certain individuals come out with at least a draw or at worst make more of a game of it.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #130 on: November 4, 2013, 12:06:25 pm »
The question I was posing Fred was should Brendan and his management team have been able to predict how it would unveil itself on the night by fielding the 3-5-2 against such a fluid and technical midfield with such a superb in form centre forward feeding them and two terrific full backs providing them width?

You yourself have stated your pre-match misgivings so should we expect more insightful management of the situation from our management?

Perhaps he and the other coaches genuinely believed our display against West brom signalled we had reached a level of collective and individual team performance that could match them on the day? And, as it turned out, they were wrong.

But could we have guaranteed [as far as metballs bouncing goes] that we prise at least a point and deprived them of two by a formation that stifled them. Given how we all now know how Arsenal perform from watching that game we can see that it probably wouldn't be the most difficult of tactical operations to stifle them. It would have meant four at the back, five across the middle and just one up front but it would have frustrated the fuck out of arsenal rather than playing into their hands. 

But I'm not going to be as insulting to suggest the LFC management weren't aware of the dangers Arsenal present. They know how Arsenal play as does the rest of the managers in the Prem.

It's a question of countering that Danger. Go on the back foot, mayby but that still might not stop them. Allen isn't 100% anyway. Keep the same side, don't drop off them, press them high. We did start well but we lost the plot and were to high and to slow to get back in numbers for the first goal.

As I said all in all I prefare an attacking confident coach, but yes he should of been more cautious but faint heart and all that.

It's obviously Rodgers second season and look at what he's up against. I'm giving him the benefit, so long as he buys quality in January or more to the point the owners give him the money to buy quality.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #131 on: November 4, 2013, 12:08:27 pm »
Outplayed...

... getting pushed back, not able to make it up field anymore, possession stats well below 40%, regular long balls out of desperation, anxiety in passing, bad body language, indications of a Hodgson team...


... na, I think we weren´t outplayed.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2013, 12:10:02 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline emitime

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #132 on: November 4, 2013, 12:08:46 pm »
Ok, not outperformed, is that better? ;)

Seriously, Arsenal is known for their passing first and foremost so when they win they will also "outplay" the other team rather then outpress them like Dortmund, or dominate them like Bayern f.e.

This is how I saw it. It didn't seem all doom and gloom to me.

We were hamstrung by not having Johnson and Enrique (seemingly to the contrary of a lot of people, I actually really like Enrique), but otherwise Liverpool and Arsenal just played their separate games. Sure Arsenal make you look silly at times with their passing, but I think all it really came down to was who had their shooting boots on, and it wasn't us (and a little bit of the referee).

I still thought Arsenal were probably slightly better overall, but away to the league leaders, that's bound to happen.

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #133 on: November 4, 2013, 12:15:47 pm »
 I watched the first half then had to go to work.  When I asked people how we played most report backs sounded like we were overrun. Which surprised me because on the first half it was fairly even. Liverpool started better, Arsenal finished better. What struck me the most was how good both teams were. We were certainly not outplayed although some of Arsenals passing from midfield into attack is fantastic, the goal came against the run of play, I though Johnson would be a major miss but Flanagan didn't have to bad a half. We know we're still  not quite there that we're experimenting with formations and players and that Arsenal are a very good team, I thought last season at Anfield they did totally outplay us but fell away in terms of the league. I can't see why people doubt Arsenals title credentials, they're as good as anyone in the leauge but on our day we can give them a game. I don't think this game changes my longterm view anymore than if wed won it. Arsenal are the team to beat for the league and we have a good chance of breaking into the top four.
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Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #134 on: November 4, 2013, 12:17:37 pm »
I certainly don't think we were outplayed in the first half. I thought we gave as good as we got. We wasted our most promising situations but there were 2 or 3 clear openings that we contrived to mess up. Yes Arsenal got better as the half went on and played their nice fotball which they were always going to but I went into Half Time thinking we could get something out of the game (obviously the next goal was going to be crucial). I don't think we received a footballing lesson or anything that drastic.

No I don't think we did either. We can beat Arsenal and Wenger knows it. But on the day they can undo any defence. Mayby as I and many others suggested. we should have snarled up midfield by playing two banks of 4, sat deep and swamped them out, hit them on the break hoping SAS would come up with a bit of magic.

One worrying aspect for me was that once we went two down we looked disjointed and dishevelled. We didn't look like a team that could fight back. Sturridge took a massive hump with Suarez when he shot accross the keeper when if he had squared it Sturridge would have had a tap in.

It was test, bit of a wake up call. Getting a top 4 spot as we all knew is not going to be easy, yesterday just confirmed it.

Offline MDougal

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #135 on: November 4, 2013, 12:21:15 pm »
This game i think showed the limitations of the players as well as the strengths of the same players, which i think Rodgers has got to pretty soon decide which way he is taking this team (either a technically excellent passing football team with relentless pressing or the quick transition counter attack side where the main aim is to draw the opposition on and use the strengths of certainly the best forward in the league and arguably one of the other best forwards in the league).

Now i am a massive fan of Rodgers and believe given time (definitely more than his 3 year contract) he will get us back into the champions league and able to challenge again for major trophies, and i think this season has been an excellent show of his coaching abilities by getting the points that we have so far.

My main concern/worry is we are almost playing a double game at the minute trying to combine short passing, high pressing, technical football that we know Rodgers advocates, whilst also allowing teams the ball in the hope of stealing it back on the edge of our area and releasing Stuuride or Suarez in space where their individual qualities will cause any teams problems.

This is now starting to show itself in the teams we are picking. Its always good that a player who comes in and takes his chance in the team keeps his place as it builds a spirit amongst the squad of keeping working hard to get into the team but i think we are slightly out of sync now as the team has players like Skrtel, Henderson, Cissokho even Enrique although that is obviously a position Rodgers would like to strengthen, and these players are more suited to the counter attack quick transition style of football, rather than technical football that Rodgers ideally craves.

The issue about the pressing of teams that Rodgers is a big fan of, i think cannot be resolved while we have the current balance in the midfield and defence.
Lucas pre injury was sensational at this and had the energy to get back into his position once he had passed the player on etc, but unfortunately the injury has robbed him of that, although i do think he still is a very very good footballer.

Steven Gerrrard is for me the best player that has played for this club and the things he has done for this club the last 15 years i dont think performance to success ratio is matched in Europe when you compare the teams he has been involved in, and i still believe if we are going down the road of a counter attack team of sitting off the opposition and stinging forward when we win the ball back with quick passing into space then he still has a good few years of being very effective for us, but i do believe if we are going down the road of high pressing similar style to what we seen from Arsenal then i do think his legs wont carry him into the positions on the regular basis of  a 90 mins.

The glaring deficiencies in some of the players if we want to play the way Rodgers set out when he first come to the club are very hard for him to solve without a blank cheque book, but i think you only have to look at the likes of Southampton who have had a similar style coach go into their club and get his players pressing high and keeping the ball without fear which i believe is a big flaw with some of our players, where too many of them dont want the ball in tight areas which is fine if we are playing counter attck football but will never work if we want to play Rodgers ideal football.

I am so optimistic with the direction we are going and i think we would have all snatched this start out of anyones hands but i am interested what the lads with a lot better tactical knowledge than me (POP, Prof, Lanky Guy, Yorky and the rest of you)  think Rodgers is going to do as i think we must be getting to the time he has to make that decision and run with it

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #136 on: November 4, 2013, 12:22:54 pm »
Just a thought on the 3-4-1-2 formation: it's something we should build on, and not ditch immediately because Coutinho is back. We suffered at the Emirates because of the poor output from the wingbacks. Again, like previous posters mentioned, this is not a slight on Flanagan who played as well as possibly could, but it was a bridge too far to think he could be Johnson's replacement.

Looking at the Italian teams who play the formation, Walter Mazzari's Inter Milan comes to mind, the wingbacks make or break the game most times. His former team, Napoli, had players like Zuniga who roamed the flanks for 90 minutes, providing defensive cover and attacking impetus. Interestingly, Zuniga seems to be struggling in Rafa's 4-1-3-2, but that's another post altogether.

We had Cissokho and Flanagan on show against Arsenal, so it was always going to be an uphill struggle. I've not seen a defender more averse to defending than Cissokho, but he does put in a decent attacking shift. The converse is true for Flanno. The lack of an outlet from the flanks meant the ball kept coming back through Arsenal's midfield, slicing through the wide open spaces Lucas and Gerrard were leaving in front of the back three.

Like Groundskeeper Willie said, the white elephant in the room is Gerrard. Rodgers need to phase him in and out of the squad rather than keep him in on for all matches. Even Fergie had to rotate Scholes regularly to keep him fresh and effective. I am hoping to see Rodgers having the gumption to keep the Cap'n on the bench more regularly, simply for those aging limbs to recuperate.

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #137 on: November 4, 2013, 12:25:13 pm »
Ok, not outperformed, is that better? ;)

Seriously, Arsenal is known for their passing first and foremost so when they win they will always "outplay" the other team rather than outpress them like Dortmund, or dominate them like Bayern f.e.

But, especially when comparing this game with our performances against them last season and the one before, we were far from sitting back or pushed back. It was an open game which brought up their strengths and singled out our weakness. But we had the same number of clear opportunities, kept Ozil totally out of the game with only a few occassions where they could continue their passing game in the final third while creating something on our own during the entire game. I thought it wasn´t bad at all.

The worry for me was the energy levels, we have the benefit of playing one game a week whereas Arsenal are playing mid week games as well. For me they were sharper, quicker and far more energetic than us. We are selecting players like Henderson, Cissokho and Flanagan for their aerobic ability rather than their football ability trying to compensate for the lack of energy in the engine room.

The players who could get free of Arsenal's shackles sadly didn't have the quality to make it count. Henderson's stumble into the box, his shot over the bar and Flanagan making great runs but aimlessly crossing where the lowlights. The players who could hurt Arsenal quite simply couldn't find space, which is worrying given the physical advantage a team playing once a week should have.

Last season we went two up and Arsenal responded, upped the intensity and pushed us back and pulled it back to 2-2. To be honest whilst we created the odd half chance here and there we simply didn't have enough in the tank to up the intensity and push Arsenal back. For me whilst Arsenal were ticking over Gerrard and Lucas were giving everything whilst other players were doing the same trying to compensate for our lack of mobility in midfield. There was no headroom to up the tempo when we went behind and I always felt that Arsenal had another couple of gears left.

It is no co-incidence that we rarely score in the second half and that far too often defeats fizzle out with barely a whimper. What has happened to the last ten minutes of a game we are behind in being like the siege of the Alamo.
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Offline Jay012345

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #138 on: November 4, 2013, 12:29:00 pm »
I hope we now stop pissing about with the ancient 3-5-2 and start getting back to creating a playing style around 4 at the back, one up front, and dominating a midfield. Time for Agger to come back into the team, and for Allen too.


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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #139 on: November 4, 2013, 12:32:33 pm »
I hope we now stop pissing about with the ancient 3-5-2 and start getting back to creating a playing style around 4 at the back, one up front, and dominating a midfield. Time for Agger to come back into the team, and for Allen too.

It's a) not ancient and b) done well for us this season. That doesn't mean we should stick with it, you have to put out the best balanced team you can and with Coutinho we probably want to switch to a back four. But let's not denigrate what's been a smart tactical move by Rodgers.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #140 on: November 4, 2013, 12:33:03 pm »
This game i think showed the limitations of the players as well as the strengths of the same players, which i think Rodgers has got to pretty soon decide which way he is taking this team (either a technically excellent passing football team with relentless pressing or the quick transition counter attack side where the main aim is to draw the opposition on and use the strengths of certainly the best forward in the league and arguably one of the other best forwards in the league).

Now i am a massive fan of Rodgers and believe given time (definitely more than his 3 year contract) he will get us back into the champions league and able to challenge again for major trophies, and i think this season has been an excellent show of his coaching abilities by getting the points that we have so far.

My main concern/worry is we are almost playing a double game at the minute trying to combine short passing, high pressing, technical football that we know Rodgers advocates, whilst also allowing teams the ball in the hope of stealing it back on the edge of our area and releasing Stuuride or Suarez in space where their individual qualities will cause any teams problems.

This is now starting to show itself in the teams we are picking. Its always good that a player who comes in and takes his chance in the team keeps his place as it builds a spirit amongst the squad of keeping working hard to get into the team but i think we are slightly out of sync now as the team has players like Skrtel, Henderson, Cissokho even Enrique although that is obviously a position Rodgers would like to strengthen, and these players are more suited to the counter attack quick transition style of football, rather than technical football that Rodgers ideally craves.

The issue about the pressing of teams that Rodgers is a big fan of, i think cannot be resolved while we have the current balance in the midfield and defence.
Lucas pre injury was sensational at this and had the energy to get back into his position once he had passed the player on etc, but unfortunately the injury has robbed him of that, although i do think he still is a very very good footballer.

Steven Gerrrard is for me the best player that has played for this club and the things he has done for this club the last 15 years i dont think performance to success ratio is matched in Europe when you compare the teams he has been involved in, and i still believe if we are going down the road of a counter attack team of sitting off the opposition and stinging forward when we win the ball back with quick passing into space then he still has a good few years of being very effective for us, but i do believe if we are going down the road of high pressing similar style to what we seen from Arsenal then i do think his legs wont carry him into the positions on the regular basis of  a 90 mins.

The glaring deficiencies in some of the players if we want to play the way Rodgers set out when he first come to the club are very hard for him to solve without a blank cheque book, but i think you only have to look at the likes of Southampton who have had a similar style coach go into their club and get his players pressing high and keeping the ball without fear which i believe is a big flaw with some of our players, where too many of them dont want the ball in tight areas which is fine if we are playing counter attck football but will never work if we want to play Rodgers ideal football.

I am so optimistic with the direction we are going and i think we would have all snatched this start out of anyones hands but i am interested what the lads with a lot better tactical knowledge than me (POP, Prof, Lanky Guy, Yorky and the rest of you)  think Rodgers is going to do as i think we must be getting to the time he has to make that decision and run with it

Ah...wellcom to RAWK Dougie my son (allthough I'm not the official meet & greet host, help yourself to a small sherry). Good post as well.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #141 on: November 4, 2013, 12:39:26 pm »
I hope we now stop pissing about with the ancient 3-5-2 and start getting back to creating a playing style around 4 at the back, one up front, and dominating a midfield. Time for Agger to come back into the team, and for Allen too.



Can't see us going back to the days of the Ged & Rafa show. Rodgers, dosn't by the look of it, dosen't overburden the players with endless tactics.

We will play SAS all season and will complement that with a positive free scoring midfielder in January, which will propel us on to league glory.

Or not..

Offline decky

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #142 on: November 4, 2013, 12:41:31 pm »
A few thoughts after letting the result settle for a couple of days

1. Rodgers got it wrong in terms of the starting system, especially with who we had playing in both full back positions. You can understand why he wanted to stick with 3 at the back as it has more or less produced good results for us recently, but in big games like this the tactical approach is much more important. In hindsight a similar setup to last season in the game may have been better?

2. Both their goals came from Arsenal picking up the ball in between our defensive and midfield lines. Who should be picking up that space? It's either one of the defenders or midfielders I guess, that's where 3 at the back is causing an issue. If there are 4 then Lucas should slot in there but the extra defender in the middle creates that uncertainty until the system is perfected

3. A lot of arguments about Gerrard. I personally feel a lot of games are passing him by, I don't like him in centre midfield. If people think he doesn't have the legs to play anywhere else then I'd suggest dropping him for a game or two and try something else. Lucas just has far too much work to do right now and needs help as Gerrard isn't giving it to him. Considering he is such a great finisher and passer of the of the ball, I think we need to use him further up the field, surely he has at least 30-45 mins of that still in him? He's currently in the side because of who he is IMO, in that position at least he is spoiling the balance of the team.

4. On the plus side, we had the chances to get back into the game. We were unlucky with the free kick the ref didn't play advantage on, Suarez hitting the post and his strange decision to shoot when Sturridge was free. Pulling back a goal even late in the game may have changed things and helped us push on for a draw. Coutinho was finding space and threaded through some great passes that split Arsenal open a couple times. I didn't see a gulf in class between the two sides, Arsenal simply took their chances and were able to exploit the weak links in our side. On the day we weren't able to do the same

Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #143 on: November 4, 2013, 12:44:06 pm »
Decky...do you think a midfield of Moses,Coutinho, Hendo,Lucas would have done better or even from the kick off.

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #144 on: November 4, 2013, 12:44:29 pm »
Good post MDougal. It's getting to the point where it needs to be one or the other with Lucas and Gerrard.

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #145 on: November 4, 2013, 12:46:10 pm »
This game i think showed the limitations of the players as well as the strengths of the same players, which i think Rodgers has got to pretty soon decide which way he is taking this team (either a technically excellent passing football team with relentless pressing or the quick transition counter attack side where the main aim is to draw the opposition on and use the strengths of certainly the best forward in the league and arguably one of the other best forwards in the league).
 Guy, Yorky and the rest of you)  think Rodgers is going to do as i think we must be getting to the time he has to make that decision and run with it


Welcome to RAWK mate, and good first post to kick off your posting career with! :wave
Yep.

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #146 on: November 4, 2013, 12:46:22 pm »
To start with, their first goal went against the run of play. We were playing well up until that point and were just about the better team. However, we were always going to struggle going down a goal to a side like Arsenal's.

Once their goal went in, they were the better team by far for the rest of the match.

Our team was very unbalanced, that midfield trio of Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson was a poor match up to theirs in the end. Can't add much more than their midfield is just better than ours.

To play five at the back you need good quality, attacking wing backs. We had Cissoko & Flanagan. While John didn't have a bad game, he was never going to be the great attacking threat that Johnson provides, and our defence seemed a bit isolated and incoherent at times. I miss Agger in there at centre back.

Their game plan was great, strategically Wenger obviously got it spot on. Was the most quiet the infamous 'SAS' have been. We still had chances, but neither of them had the best game to b honest. Suarez's touch was off, but I think we can give the two of them the benefit of the doubt as the rest of the team were poor too.

I think we should write this off as Arsenal playing very well at the moment, and us not being able to match them just yet. We are competing for fourth spot, trying to get back to the top. They have been top four all this time, have built a brand new stadium, and are only just now trying to push on. We are understandably behind them a few years off the pitch and on it.

Let's keep playing the way we have been playing, and keep an eye out for the results of Spurs & Utd. Fourth spot can be ours.

Offline Hayer

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #147 on: November 4, 2013, 12:46:52 pm »
Zonalmarking analysis:

Arsenal triumphed in a fast-paced and tactically interesting contest. With Jack Wilshere and Mathieu Flamini out, Arsene Wenger had no real selection dilemmas. Brendan Rodgers continued with his 3-5-2 system, although was without both first-choice wing-backs, with Glen Johnson a late withdrawal – Jon Flanagan played instead.

Arsenal were the better side – just about keeping Liverpool’s front two quiet, and dominating both centrally and down the flanks in possession.

Sturridge-Suarez v Koscielny-Mertesacker
The crucial battle in this game was Liverpool’s front two against Arsenal’s centre-backs. Liverpool’s unusual formation (in Premier League terms, at least) is clearly designed to get Suarez and Sturridge playing high up the pitch, close together. The 3-5-2 means Liverpool can field two out-and-out strikers, without being overrun in the centre of midfield.

There’s a lack of creativity from deeper positions, however – Steven Gerrard was unusually quiet – and Liverpool tend to be dominated down the flanks with this formation, conceding too much pressure. They’re yet to keep a clean sheet with the 3-5-2, and Arsenal have scored in each of their Premier League matches this season.

Therefore, a rather simplified but fairly accurate overview of the game was this: if Arsenal could keep Suarez and Sturridge quiet, they would win the game.

Liverpool play direct
Liverpool played two long balls in the first couple of minutes – which is obviously not the type of football Brendan Rodgers usually requests, but it showed that Liverpool knew where their area of strength was. Arsenal rarely face two out-and-out strikers, especially the Emirates, and this was arguably Mertesacker and Koscielny’s biggest defensive test yet as a partnership.

Arsenal had two major solutions to the threat posed by Liverpool’s front two. First, Mikel Arteta played an extremely deep role in front of the defence, almost as a forward-playing centre-back at times. Flamini would have been a better player for this role, at least on paper, and Wenger would probably have fielded the duo together if possible. Arteta isn’t a natural in a role as defensive as this, but he remained in a deep position reliably, and Mertesacker was happy to pass on Suarez or Sturridge when they dropped into deeper roles.

Arteta’s interpretation of the role is reactive rather than proactive. He’s constantly darting across to make a challenge in front of the back four, and sometimes seems a yard behind the action – but he always seemed to rectify the situation with a well-timed challenge. He doesn’t have the natural positional sense of say, a Gilberto Silva in a role as defensive at this, but overall he performed well.

Second, Koscielny was at his most proactive. When playing alongside Mertesacker he’s a very forward-thinking defender who relentlessly closes down opponents when they drop into deeper positions. It wasn’t uncommon to see Koscielny closing down Suarez (or Sturridge) even if it meant moving 20 yards in front of Mertesacker. He absolutely had to win the challenges, of course, as he risked exposing Mertesacker two-against-one if Suarez dribbled past – although Arteta, again, did a good job of filling in.

And while Koscielny’s success rate wasn’t perfect, a key feature of the game was the poor dribbling statistics of Suarez and Sturridge. Had they consistently escaped Koscielny’s pressure, Liverpool would have been much more dangerous

A particularly telling statistic, in terms of Arsenal’s defending, was that Koscielny attempted 11 tackles or interceptions in the game, and Mertesacker none. The German remained in a much deeper position and played a much calmer role – and while his lack of pace is frequently (and fairly) cited as a weakness, he consistently positions himself excellently so this shortcoming isn’t exposed.

Liverpool breaks
Liverpool were most dangerous when Jordan Henderson, fielded at the top of the midfield triangle, broke forward on the counter-attack to join the front two. There have been suggestions that Henderson would have been better off on the right, with a more creative player used as the number ten, but Rodgers’ decision to play Henderson centrally was understandable given his excellent display in this role against Arsenal last season, when his energy was crucial in Liverpool’s pressing.

Here, Aaron Ramsey played a reasonably advanced role and often left Arteta a little exposed, so Henderson could overwhelm the Spaniard on the break.

There were three promising moments in this respect. First, on six minutes when Suarez was penalised for a high foot, preventing Liverpool breaking three-on-three after a corner. Second, one nine minutes when Henderson won the ball from Santi Cazorla and drove forward into oceans of space, before delaying a decision and eventually shooting weakly. Third, when Liverpool broke from a free-kick and Bacary Sagna cynically hauled down Suarez – again Liverpool were attacking three-on-three, and were denied the opportunity to restart their move quickly by the referee.

When Liverpool broke quickly, they were dangerous, but when Arsenal got men behind the ball, they lacked incision from the midfielders.

Full-backs
Arsenal’s obvious area of strength was down the flanks, where the full-backs had plenty of space to scamper into – but when both Kieran Gibbs and Sagna advanced, it left Arsenal’s centre-backs exposed. Liverpool had to strike while Arsenal’s full-backs were unable to help.

Gibbs and Sagna attacked responsibly – one was usually cautious and in position to assist the centre-backs if passing moves broke down. Nevertheless, they had ample opportunity to get forward and take advantage of the space, and Sagna provided the crucial cross for Cazorla’s opener. Crossing has been an prominent part of Arsenal’s gameplan recently – they’ve scored from crosses or cut-backs against Norwich, Napoli, Dortmund and Crystal Palace in recent weeks.

Sagna was one of Arsenal’s better performers, and consistently won individual battles against Cissokho – who was beaten for pace on the goal, was later booked for a foul on Sagna, and was withdrawn at half-time.

You can also partly blame Liverpool’s system for the concession – as Mamadou Sakho moved out of the defence they remained two-against-one with Giroud in the centre, but Flanagan’s advanced positioning meant he wasn’t able to get back goalside of Cazorla, who found a pocket of space – a proper right-back (in a back four) would probably have been covering.

Arsenal possession play
Arsenal started by using both Cazorla and Tomas Rosicky narrow. Although this is both players’ natural style and ensured Arsenal dominated the centre of the pitch, it meant that Liverpool found it easy to press and win the ball. The away side had lots of players in central positions, and when they wanted to press, they didn’t have to cover a large distance – Arsenal might have been better off stretching the play more.

However, once Liverpool’s pressing dropped after about 15 minutes, Arsenal’s passing in the midfield zone was extremely slick. Mesut Ozil was relatively quiet, but Lucas Leiva was particularly keen to stick to him, and therefore unable to stop Arsenal’s other attacking players. Liverpool’s midfield zone seemed rather disorganised, with Gerrard and Lucas often bypassed too easily.

For long periods – especially once ahead – Arsenal took advantage of the fact Liverpool’s three-versus-one against Giroud meant Arsenal had more men in deeper positions. Arsenal always had a free player, effectively nine-against-seven across the rest of the pitch – and while they didn’t relentlessly threaten Mignolet, they calmed the tempo of the game and retained control.

On a related note, it was surprising that one Liverpool’s wide centre-backs didn’t move forward when Liverpool had the ball – they stayed in position, three-against-one with Giroud, and Liverpool lacked numbers higher up the pitch. One of the back three should have advanced, which would have enabled the relevant wing-back to push on, too.

Liverpool change shape
Rodgers changed his system after the break, moving to a 4-4-2 / 4-2-3-1 with Cissokho taken off and Coutinho on down the left flank. This was a logical change with Liverpool needing to get back into the game, and Coutinho was fielded in a very narrow left-sided role, moving inside into his favoured number ten position.

This potentially made Liverpool’s strike duo even more dangerous, but although Coutinho found space by darting inside between the lines, his attempted through-balls were consistently overhit. On his return from injury, this was a fine demonstration of the concept of ‘match sharpness’ – the Brazilian simply wasn’t on his game, and that made Liverpool’s gameplan ineffective.

Wenger was more animated than usual, and repeatedly urged his midfield to drop back and be more compact. This was a particular problem, with Arteta frequently left stranded in front of the defence, and overworked as a result. Ramsey’s advanced positioning was to blame, but the Welshman more than compensated for his relative lack of defensive support with his excellent goal. From then, he played more cautiously and the wide players protected the full-backs.

Subs
The substitutions were interesting – Rodgers brought on Victor Moses for Flanagan, and moved Henderson to right-back. He scampered forward to hit a dangerous cross into the box, prompting Wenger to bring on Nacho Monreal in his familiar role as a late defensive winger, up against Henderson. A right-midfielder at right-back was playing against a left-back at left-midfield.

Thomas Vermaelen replaced Gibbs because of injury, and then Carl Jenkinson replaced Cazorla. Arsenal ended the game with two full-backs in the wide positions, summing up how keen Wenger was to protect his defence. Denied the opportunity to break directly at Arsenal’s  centre-backs, Liverpool were less threatening.

Conclusion
Wenger will be pleased Arsenal managed to stop Suarez and Sturridge from scoring, which was Arsenal’s major task. Koscielny’s aggressive positioning and Arteta’s role in front of the back four were particularly important in this regard.

Going forward, Arsenal weren’t at their best – but they passed the ball slickly and were aware of the need to push the full-backs forward, taking advantage of Liverpool’s weakness out wide. They were too open at the start of the second half, but Wenger urged his side back into a good defensive shape.

Rodgers’ side were eventually well beaten, but it’s hard to fault many of his decisions. It was understandable to start with the 3-5-2 given its recent success, and the decision to keep Henderson central made sense considering his performance in this game last year. His forward charges from the top of midfield allowed Liverpool to break dangerously.

It was also a logical early decision to revert to the 4-4-2 with Coutinho coming inside off the flank – he was dangerous, if frustratingly ineffective with his passing. Moving Henderson to right-back, in order to accommodate another attacker also made sense, with Liverpool having a good spell of late pressure.

Offline decky

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #148 on: November 4, 2013, 12:48:20 pm »
Decky...do you think a midfield of Moses,Coutinho, Hendo,Lucas would have done better or even from the kick off.

It would depend how they were set up I would imagine, can you elaborate?

Offline LucasLeiva

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #149 on: November 4, 2013, 12:53:35 pm »
We've still had a very good start, we just got it wrong at the weekend.
Being honest, unless Enrique and Johnson are playing, we shouldn't use 3-5-2 at all. Cissokho was the worst player on the pitch at the weekend and for gods sake just get the Agger and Sakho partnership going already (as much as I love Kolo). Skrtel can be a beast but Agger is better and Sakho was signed for so much he won't be getting dropped. I actually think Sakho played quite well on Saturday too.

The formation does work very well but away from home in a big game you can't get caught on the break like we did for their 1st goal, you need to stay solid. If Johnson and Enrique are out again I'd like to see us play 4-3-3 again until they're available.

End of the day boys, we were away to top of the league. It's not the end of the world, we've still been brilliant this season.

Offline freddwarf

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #150 on: November 4, 2013, 12:56:47 pm »
It would depend how they were set up I would imagine, can you elaborate?

Not really...can't get the wallpaper straight...oh...see what you mean.

Well start with Gerrard on the bench or when we went two down yes bring on Coutinho for Cissokho or Toure (he took off Cissoko) But take off Gerrard bring on Moses. Mid of Coutinho,Moses,Hendo,Lucas. Put Hendo in as playmaker (if poss) Moses & Coutinho supporting,Lucas deep.

Gerrard wasn't at his best, Rafa would have subbed him. Rodgers should if the game is passing Gerrard by, he was chasing shadows a lot of the time.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #151 on: November 4, 2013, 01:02:13 pm »
Don't really understand this comment that Rodgers needs to decide one way or the other how we are going to play on-going. It seems an awful over reaction given a defeat away the league leaders in a game where we really weren't as bad as some people have made out. Indeed, with a bit of composure and confidence we could easily have taken the lead in that game and we're talking about a whole different game tactically.

The manner in which we are currently playing has got us into the current top four so I don't see the need for any wholesale changes to the style just yet. Arsenal have a good team and have started the season well but I thought we gave a pretty good account of ourselves especially first half. The biggest difference was that Arsenal were more clinical when the chances presented themselves.

We were well in the game before poor defensive play from at least two defenders (Cissokho and Skrtel) allowed them to score against the run of play. After that we would always be chasing the game which plays right into Arsenals hands.
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Offline SmallwoodRed

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #152 on: November 4, 2013, 01:04:47 pm »
Ok, not outperformed, is that better? ;)

Seriously, Arsenal is known for their passing first and foremost so when they win they will always "outplay" the other team rather than outpress them like Dortmund, or dominate them like Bayern f.e.

But, especially when comparing this game with our performances against them last season and the one before, we were far from sitting back or pushed back. It was an open game which brought up their strengths and singled out our weakness. But we had the same number of clear opportunities, kept Ozil totally out of the game with only a few occassions where they could continue their passing game in the final third while creating something on our own during the entire game. I thought it wasn´t bad at all.

I saw it as a case of Arsenal exposed our deficiencies well but I agree we were not outplayed. I stuggle to see how we were seen to be outplayed and could and should have scored at least twice in the last 15 minutes.


Offline decky

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #153 on: November 4, 2013, 01:34:37 pm »
Not really...can't get the wallpaper straight...oh...see what you mean.

Well start with Gerrard on the bench or when we went two down yes bring on Coutinho for Cissokho or Toure (he took off Cissoko) But take off Gerrard bring on Moses. Mid of Coutinho,Moses,Hendo,Lucas. Put Hendo in as playmaker (if poss) Moses & Coutinho supporting,Lucas deep.

Gerrard wasn't at his best, Rafa would have subbed him. Rodgers should if the game is passing Gerrard by, he was chasing shadows a lot of the time.

Although young, Alberto can press, keep it and is very good tactically but he wasn't even on the bench as far as I'm aware. I think either him or Allen could've played in Gerrard's position from the bench and offered something more on Saturday. From seeing Moses playing as a 10 you'd have to assume that he is better off out as a wide attacker and Coutinho is always best at 10. Could only really see those 4 playing in a standard 4-4-2 then with Coutinho out wide

Offline decky

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #154 on: November 4, 2013, 01:41:36 pm »
Don't really understand this comment that Rodgers needs to decide one way or the other how we are going to play on-going. It seems an awful over reaction given a defeat away the league leaders in a game where we really weren't as bad as some people have made out. Indeed, with a bit of composure and confidence we could easily have taken the lead in that game and we're talking about a whole different game tactically.

The manner in which we are currently playing has got us into the current top four so I don't see the need for any wholesale changes to the style just yet. Arsenal have a good team and have started the season well but I thought we gave a pretty good account of ourselves especially first half. The biggest difference was that Arsenal were more clinical when the chances presented themselves.

We were well in the game before poor defensive play from at least two defenders (Cissokho and Skrtel) allowed them to score against the run of play. After that we would always be chasing the game which plays right into Arsenals hands.

Overall agree with this. I'd prefer we were able to play multiple systems and just pick the right one depending on the game. The 3-5-2 is good enough to beat most teams in this league, but maybe not teams at the top of the league away from home.

Offline steveeastend

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #155 on: November 4, 2013, 01:42:23 pm »
The worry for me was the energy levels, we have the benefit of playing one game a week whereas Arsenal are playing mid week games as well. For me they were sharper, quicker and far more energetic than us. We are selecting players like Henderson, Cissokho and Flanagan for their aerobic ability rather than their football ability trying to compensate for the lack of energy in the engine room.

The players who could get free of Arsenal's shackles sadly didn't have the quality to make it count. Henderson's stumble into the box, his shot over the bar and Flanagan making great runs but aimlessly crossing where the lowlights. The players who could hurt Arsenal quite simply couldn't find space, which is worrying given the physical advantage a team playing once a week should have.

Last season we went two up and Arsenal responded, upped the intensity and pushed us back and pulled it back to 2-2. To be honest whilst we created the odd half chance here and there we simply didn't have enough in the tank to up the intensity and push Arsenal back. For me whilst Arsenal were ticking over Gerrard and Lucas were giving everything whilst other players were doing the same trying to compensate for our lack of mobility in midfield. There was no headroom to up the tempo when we went behind and I always felt that Arsenal had another couple of gears left.

It is no co-incidence that we rarely score in the second half and that far too often defeats fizzle out with barely a whimper. What has happened to the last ten minutes of a game we are behind in being like the siege of the Alamo.

I think your observation of not having around enough players offering both, talent and physical strengths, is right. But overall that´s the sign of a top quality player and we simply don´t have enough of them around still. In this game Flanagan, Henderson because of talent issues and Toure and Gerrard in terms of fitness, Gerrard lost probably 50% of his physical abilities prior this season and there is no way to overlook this anymore. Cissokho had his third game in the PL but I think he is definitely an upgrade on Enrique...

In terms of the comparison to last season I think this Arsenal is way ahead of the one of last season. They have built up on solid foundation and pushed on with the signing of Ozil, we are probably one or two seasons behind them in putting the pieces together..It will be crucial to make it top 4 for not having considerable setbacks in our progress..
« Last Edit: November 4, 2013, 03:17:16 pm by steveeastend »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #156 on: November 4, 2013, 01:55:36 pm »
It was a wake up call as many have said as with the personnel we have, every team outside the top 4/6 of last season we can and should beat. A good win against Fulham would be a great response, one we should expect but it also wont hide the fact our hopes for CL qualification is built on lads who were once that good but may not be anymore. Brendan has to bulk up a couple of areas with some class signings as even if we qualify for CL I don't see us competing at that level ...yet. Not without a couple of signings. That is where we are at, building towards something and these defeats / knocks against a possible title winning team should not be a shock.

In regards to the game, we competed until they scored and after that we were looking second best. Too many of our key areas were under performing, our width was not there which made the wing backs pointless eventually. As some said we could have gone with just Sturridge up front and asked Suarez to fill in btw the 3 man midfield or even 4 and Sturridge. Frustrate Arsenal and hope we sneak a goal and peg them back to a draw. 

Anyway get 10 - 12 points out of the next 5 games and we will set for a tough mid/end of December. Our season goals will be well tested then.
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Offline Adeemo

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #157 on: November 4, 2013, 02:22:37 pm »
Thought at the time that it seemed ludicrous to bring Flanagan in for Johnson and not revert to a back 4 to make it a little easier for him. Now I know there's plenty on here that thought he had a decent game but for me he was way out of his depth, through no fault of his own as he's clearly not a Premier League fullback, he'll struggle to have a career in The Championship imo. He attempted to get forward a few times in the 1st half but ended up producing next to nothing and was at fault, along with others for the opening goal. His strength is in defending and facing up opposition wingers, so to play him in a position that requires great technical ability and attacking guile completely baffled me. We'd have been much better off taking Ryan McLaughlin along as cover if Brendan was unwilling to abandon his back 5 to accommodate Flanno.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #158 on: November 4, 2013, 02:30:47 pm »
Thought at the time that it seemed ludicrous to bring Flanagan in for Johnson and not revert to a back 4 to make it a little easier for him. Now I know there's plenty on here that thought he had a decent game but for me he was way out of his depth, through no fault of his own as he's clearly not a Premier League fullback, he'll struggle to have a career in The Championship imo. He attempted to get forward a few times in the 1st half but ended up producing next to nothing and was at fault, along with others for the opening goal. His strength is in defending and facing up opposition wingers, so to play him in a position that requires great technical ability and attacking guile completely baffled me. We'd have been much better off taking Ryan McLaughlin along as cover if Brendan was unwilling to abandon his back 5 to accommodate Flanno.

"The 29-year-old was taken to hospital shortly before kick off at The Emirates after complaining of severe pain in those areas. "

It wasn't a planned change. Was McLaughlin even in the squad?
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Re: RAWK Round Table. AFC 2-0 LFC
« Reply #159 on: November 4, 2013, 02:37:40 pm »
"The 29-year-old was taken to hospital shortly before kick off at The Emirates after complaining of severe pain in those areas. "

It wasn't a planned change. Was McLaughlin even in the squad?

Flanagan went as cover at right back and as I said, if Rodgers was unwilling to revert to a back 4 should anything happen to Johnson, why did he not take Mclaughlin with the traveling party instead of Flanagan. Would've made a lot more sense and showed greater foresight to the problems any change down the right would cause us.
"I love the Pope, I love seeing him in his Pope-Mobile, his three feet of bullet proof plexi-glass. That's faith in action folks! You know he's got God on his side"