Author Topic: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield  (Read 34699 times)

Offline Anfield89

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #200 on: December 9, 2016, 12:09:17 pm »
A couple of rags calling Jurgen a "one trick pony" this morning.

Go out and prove them wrong on Sunday!

Which rags? Alls I have seen is a ex Irish player saying he would pick Conte out of the managers at the big clubs.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #201 on: December 9, 2016, 12:09:29 pm »
Firmino upfront?

Hope so. Origi is capable of playing wide forward if Klopp wants to keep him in and the priority should be to get Firmino back where he dictates our final third play

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #202 on: December 9, 2016, 12:18:56 pm »
Firmino upfront?
Firmino is just as effective out wide, half his goals and assists this season have come playing there. Considering the lack of options out wide I'd expect him to start there with Origi up front.
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #203 on: December 9, 2016, 12:27:22 pm »
Firmino is just as effective out wide, half his goals and assists this season have come playing there. Considering the lack of options out wide I'd expect him to start there with Origi up front.

Yes but it's not about him as an individual - the question is can our attack as a whole be as effective with him out wide? With the exception of the Leicester game it hasn't looked it. 

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #204 on: December 9, 2016, 12:44:43 pm »
Yes but it's not about him as an individual - the question is can our attack as a whole be as effective with him out wide? With the exception of the Leicester game it hasn't looked it.
We were looking very poor against Swansea until Sturridge cam on and Firmino went wide, we also did well against Burton and Derby with him wide. We scored three against Bournemouth with him there also so that's 13-goals in 4-games so it's not like it's been ineffective.

There's been similar games where we've struggled to score with Firmino through the middle (Southampton, Sunderland, Burnley).
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Offline thekremlin

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #205 on: December 9, 2016, 12:46:30 pm »
Anything less then 8-0 and I'm booting right off.

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #206 on: December 9, 2016, 12:47:35 pm »
I do think Firmino and Origi could interchange more if both start.

Origi is comfortable wide, some of his goals come from that positions.  He doesn't always have to be the central man.

But if Origi does start he has to go back to putting a real shift in for the team like he was doing last season.  I don't think he's worked as hard this season.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #207 on: December 9, 2016, 01:15:00 pm »
We were looking very poor against Swansea until Sturridge cam on and Firmino went wide, we also did well against Burton and Derby with him wide. We scored three against Bournemouth with him there also so that's 13-goals in 4-games so it's not like it's been ineffective.

There's been similar games where we've struggled to score with Firmino through the middle (Southampton, Sunderland, Burnley).

Top of my head but I don't think our chance creation numbers would back that up - small sample admittedly - but just from the eye test in our last two league games we look blunter without him doing his false 9 but and creating space and confusion

I also specifically like Origi wider in this game. West ham have huge problems at full back which him and Mane would be terrors for. Plus their functional cente backs will find it far easier to play Origi than Firmino

End of the day it shouldn't matter vs these there are horrible at the back but it would be good for us to get back to playing around a false as we're set up to do and have looked so devastating with this season

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #208 on: December 9, 2016, 01:17:40 pm »
Sounds like Sturridge is still unavailable so I'd be going with this lineup for the match.

Karius
Clyne Matip Lovren Milner
Hendo
Lallana Can
Mane Origi Firmino

Getting Lallana and Matip back in from the start will help our overall play and control of the game.  We should enjoy quite a bit of possession and should create a lot of chances against their really poor back line.  As long as we avoid bad fouls in dangerous areas I think we should be ok in this game. 

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #209 on: December 9, 2016, 01:30:31 pm »
Top of my head but I don't think our chance creation numbers would back that up - small sample admittedly - but just from the eye test in our last two league games we look blunter without him doing his false 9 but and creating space and confusion

I also specifically like Origi wider in this game. West ham have huge problems at full back which him and Mane would be terrors for. Plus their functional cente backs will find it far easier to play Origi than Firmino

End of the day it shouldn't matter vs these there are horrible at the back but it would be good for us to get back to playing around a false as we're set up to do and have looked so devastating with this season
We scored three against Bournemouth and two against Sunderland with Origi up front, that could and should have been enough for two wins.

We looked just as blunt against Sunderland when Coutinho was on the pitch and Firmino up front, creating just four chances in 35-minutes compared to 15 chances in 65-minutes with Firmino out wide and Origi up front.

Origi is not a conventional forward who stays central and allows himself to be marked by centre-backs. He drops deep and goes wide quite often which will cause the West Ham centre backs similar issues to Firmino. I agree though, we should be able to threaten West Ham with either option.
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #210 on: December 9, 2016, 01:41:42 pm »
Looking forward to this as two weeks to Christmas so lets start with the good tiding sorry hiding and win this one well. Still firing on all cylinders with our attack, Lallana to come back in and hopefully we worked on some of our issues over the week.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #211 on: December 9, 2016, 02:30:51 pm »
I've been trying to think all week where I've seen that Bournemouth game before. Everyone I've talked to has kept saying you could see it coming, and I agree. It was just also so familiar.

And it's just hit me. We have seen that exact game before. And we loved it. Everything about it, the madness, the scoreline, even the order the goals and near enough when they came.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36020910

It is almost exactly the same as the Quarter Final second leg against Borussia Dortmund from last year. Just that time we were on the right side of all the madness.

2-0 down at half time. Quick goal to give hope, followed by one to open it back up to 3-1. Then two quick goals to bring it level before a grandstand injury time winner. You even have the similarity that the last two goals were scored by defenders.

So if you want a study into how a team bounces back from that, in even more dramatic devastating circumstances just look at Dortmund.

They won their next four games. 3-0 , 3-0 , 3-0 , 5-1. And have just this evening topped their champions league group above current holders Real Madrid. If we take away the lessons and develop character from the experience we will be stronger because of it.

Let's hope the similarities continue. If they do, then all will be forgiven and we set ourselves up perfectly for the City game.

Come on the Reds!
After not bothering to turn up in the first place, we capitulated though(well we didn't really- Bournemouth just decided to attack us since we turned up having been off the pace anyway)- Dortmund didn't.
Both teams came flying out of the box and even though Dortmund went behind- they kept the same intensity and mercurial ability to score goals at any moment and were trying to do so regularly- with some nervy moments.

The outcome last weekend was the same, but it was far from the game against Dortmund in terms of quality and intensity. Had Bournemouth decided to attack us from the start, we'd have been murdered and we would've come away with a cricket score against us.

This was all about us.

In any case- we need to put that right against West Ham. A team we should be beating.
« Last Edit: December 9, 2016, 02:54:06 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline ScubaSteve

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #212 on: December 9, 2016, 03:00:22 pm »
We need to destroy these, no excuses!!

Let's show the league what we're about this season. Let's carry on the momentum

Offline 4pool

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #213 on: December 9, 2016, 03:04:01 pm »
4.30pm Liverpool v West Ham United (Sky Sports)
Referee: Mark Clattenburg
Assistants: R West, D Cann
Fourth official: K Friend
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline harrylfc

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #214 on: December 9, 2016, 03:09:46 pm »
Hate how these next two weeks we gonna playing last again,adds a bit more pressue if the teams around us win beforehand..

Offline Fruity

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #215 on: December 9, 2016, 03:39:52 pm »
I think they beat us 3 times last season so am pretty sure they will feel confident about getting some sort of result. No one is expecting them to win so they can be quite relaxed about. I think we need to get at them from the start and don't let up. We have had a full week off so should be up for this. Its important we don't give them a sniff.

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #216 on: December 9, 2016, 03:54:15 pm »
There havent been many must win games this season but I think this is a must win.

Offline Uncle Ronnie

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #217 on: December 9, 2016, 03:59:22 pm »
4.30pm Liverpool v West Ham United (Sky Sports)
Referee: Mark Clattenburg
Assistants: R West, D Cann
Fourth official: K Friend

Clats!!  :scarf

Offline the_red_pill

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #218 on: December 9, 2016, 04:00:08 pm »
There havent been many must win games this season but I think this is a must win.
In addition- we win this game and we're 3 points up from last season's corresponding fixture.

We need to make sure we get points off those games we drew/lost last season and continue trying to get the points we gained last season.

That's the way to improve.
« Last Edit: December 9, 2016, 04:09:50 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #219 on: December 9, 2016, 04:22:23 pm »
This will be a good afternoon for us

They're going to get absolutely destroyed in midfield - Noble is a turnstile in there
They'll rarely be in our final third at all and don't have the defenders to 'park the bus effectively'
Should be a fun one to watch


Offline Ashburton

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #220 on: December 9, 2016, 04:27:11 pm »
Ok, I'm going to be honest, and this is coming from someone who would still have Karius over Mignolet.

First goal - Callum Wilson scored the exact same penalty (in the exact same position) just a week earlier against Arsenal. Why did Karius dive to his left when Wilson had put a penalty to his right just a week earlier? And why did the goalkeeping coach not do their homework as to where Wilson shoots when Bournemouth have penalties. I would put this one on both Karius and the goalkeeping coach. Although admittedly, even then Karius may not have saved it but at least do your homework on the penalty taker. Of course, it's better to not actually concede a penalty in the first place.

2nd goal - Karius should have done better. Especially since the ball seemed to bounce just before going in.

3rd goal - Karius could not have done anything.

4th goal - Karius' fault.

Look, I'm not having a pop at him. He's young, and he's a good goalkeeper in my eyes with qualities that Mignolet obviously didn't improve on his 3 years as a starter. I'm just replying to your point. I still believe he will go on to be a very good goalkeeper because I think he has the basic foundations to be one. We can't just lynch him after one bad performance, especially since Mignolet has had 3 years to prove himself.

Regarding pens, you can look at this both ways and seems many forget the gambler's fallacy.  There is no 'right' side to dive which guarantees a penalty save because on the previous taker's pens.

The lad was BL goalie of the year, personally think some of you under-rate Mignolet's shot shopping on here, but if Klopp has backed the lad to be the keeper for the next few years you might as well get behind him, most young keepers are atrocious at commanding their box when they first move clubs anyway, so the fact he seems solid enough and may yet improve is a good deal.

Every GK mistake tends to have a chance at costing points, but it wasn't Karius who let the 3-1 lead slip by himself, was plenty of the game still left to influence at that point.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #221 on: December 9, 2016, 04:31:52 pm »
Regarding pens, you can look at this both ways and seems many forget the gambler's fallacy.  There is no 'right' side to dive which guarantees a penalty save because on the previous taker's pens.

The lad was BL goalie of the year, personally think some of you under-rate Mignolet's shot shopping on here, but if Klopp has backed the lad to be the keeper for the next few years you might as well get behind him, most young keepers are atrocious at commanding their box when they first move clubs anyway, so the fact he seems solid enough and may yet improve is a good deal.

Every GK mistake tends to have a chance at costing points, but it wasn't Karius who let the 3-1 lead slip by himself, was plenty of the game still left to influence at that point.

He wasn't.

Offline diegoLFC7

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #222 on: December 9, 2016, 04:32:26 pm »
Currently Origi is the better option. Firming might have more technique but Origi has an instinct for scoring goals and should be the guy leading the line. Firming is somewhat wasteful as a wide player but thats why I'm glad I'm not the manager.
Seen us win everything

Offline didi

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #223 on: December 9, 2016, 04:49:30 pm »
have we ever beaten any side managed by Bilic? Standard Liege in champions league qualfier springs to mind but cant be certain he was there manager

Offline King Klopp.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #224 on: December 9, 2016, 04:51:15 pm »
Hope Karius has a stormer.
Believe

Offline gatcliffe

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #225 on: December 9, 2016, 04:55:33 pm »
Hope Karius has a stormer.
And Henderson !
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Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #226 on: December 9, 2016, 05:02:55 pm »
Back to rampant attacking football, I fear for West Ham.

4-0 Redmen.
Been all over the world but Anfield is still my home.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #227 on: December 9, 2016, 05:35:37 pm »
Firmino is just as effective out wide, half his goals and assists this season have come playing there. Considering the lack of options out wide I'd expect him to start there with Origi up front.
We have greater options out wide than upfront at the moment?

Offline Armchair expert

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #228 on: December 9, 2016, 05:45:21 pm »
Hope Karius has a stormer.

I'd rather he has nowt to to do but what he does do he does with a bit of confidence

Offline sms1986

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #229 on: December 9, 2016, 06:11:16 pm »
have we ever beaten any side managed by Bilic? Standard Liege in champions league qualfier springs to mind but cant be certain he was there manager

Well, we certainly will be doing on Sunday! ;D

We beat his Beşiktaş team in the Europa League in 2015.

Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #230 on: December 9, 2016, 06:13:02 pm »
As others have said it's not great playing Sunday when Arsenal and City will go first and both will surely win their games comfortably.

Any sort of win for us will be a great weekend as Spurs/Man u or both will drop points. I see Spurs as our biggest threat to top 4 so need to stay comfortably above them by January/February time comes around. I'm not writing the title off by any means but top 4 would be huge progress from last year and I feel like only Spurs could prevent that for us.

Just as long as we win not fussed though.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #231 on: December 9, 2016, 06:20:52 pm »
We have greater options out wide than upfront at the moment?
I'd say apart from Ojo our options out wide at the moment are all a little like square pegs in round holes, Firmino, Lallana, Origi e.g. 
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Offline S

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #232 on: December 9, 2016, 07:04:52 pm »
A friend of a friend is the most annoying football fan I've ever met. He supports West Ham. Think about everything you hate about casual modern football fans (aside from glory supporting) and condense it into one person. As a result of strange coincidences I literally only ever see him after this fixture and so obviously in recent years that's been torture. Having not seen him for months and months, I've just had a text come through saying he's coming out with a group of us tomorrow.

We're fucked.

Offline 4pool

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #233 on: December 9, 2016, 07:14:05 pm »
Klopp doesn't care if we go first on the weekend or last.

He has the team prepared to win. Outside influences make no difference.
Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #234 on: December 9, 2016, 07:23:14 pm »
A friend of a friend is the most annoying football fan I've ever met. He supports West Ham. Think about everything you hate about casual modern football fans (aside from glory supporting) and condense it into one person. As a result of strange coincidences I literally only ever see him after this fixture and so obviously in recent years that's been torture. Having not seen him for months and months, I've just had a text come through saying he's coming out with a group of us tomorrow.

We're fucked.
Game is Sunday so he shouldn't have much to say tomorrow.
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Offline S

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #235 on: December 9, 2016, 08:38:01 pm »
Game is Sunday so he shouldn't have much to say tomorrow.
Can't believe I've only just found that out. They should include the date and kick-off time in the thread title or something.

Offline gatcliffe

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #236 on: December 9, 2016, 08:44:29 pm »
Can't believe I've only just found that out. They should include the date and kick-off time in the thread title or something.
It is included.
Like a bottle of wine the reds get better and better.

Offline gdr

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #237 on: December 9, 2016, 09:36:21 pm »
What about some vocal support for our keeper before kick off ?
Chant his name. Confidence is a big part of the job.

Offline sms1986

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #238 on: December 9, 2016, 09:43:46 pm »
What about some vocal support for our keeper before kick off ?
Chant his name. Confidence is a big part of the job.

I agree, that will karius to three points!

Offline Dougle

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham - December 11th 16:30pm at Anfield
« Reply #239 on: December 9, 2016, 10:11:18 pm »
I agree, that will karius to three points!

https://youtu.be/9ybv4DOj-N0

I can see it now