Topic: Klopp's Second Season - What constitutes a good 16/17 season in your view?

[MerseysideBrum]

If somebody offers you 4th place right now do you take it?

that should be a banable question imo

[idontknow]

Nope.

I'm on the party bus already.

If it breaks down then tough titty, everyone else who has clambered onboard can pop into a boozer while we wait for the lads who set off a bit later in the top four coach to pick us up.

Can always adjust targets as a fan as you go can't you?

We are 2 points off the top after a really difficult start. We are playing fantastic football. We have Jurgen Klopp. We have no European distractions. We've scored the most goals this calendar year.

Like I said, isn't it all about dreaming?

Let's aim for 1st until it's impossible, then 2nd then 3rd etc

I would be happy with top four at the end ultimately but right now I think I might finally be getting over 13/14 as I thought that might be our last chance for absolutely ages after Suarez and then Gerrard left.

We could always lose the next three and laugh at our early season optimism. Big deal, rather be in a position now to dream big than be say on say 8 points or something.

I'll drink to all of that 

[Flinstone]

Minimum title challenge

[Redshadow]

Nope.

I'm on the party bus already.

If it breaks down then tough titty, everyone else who has clambered onboard can pop into a boozer while we wait for the lads who set off a bit later in the top four coach to pick us up.

Can always adjust targets as a fan as you go can't you?

We are 2 points off the top after a really difficult start. We are playing fantastic football. We have Jurgen Klopp. We have no European distractions. We've scored the most goals this calendar year.

Like I said, isn't it all about dreaming?

Let's aim for 1st until it's impossible, then 2nd then 3rd etc

I would be happy with top four at the end ultimately but right now I think I might finally be getting over 13/14 as I thought that might be our last chance for absolutely ages after Suarez and then Gerrard left.

We could always lose the next three and laugh at our early season optimism. Big deal, rather be in a position now to dream big than be say on say 8 points or something.

I've got the ticket bus already, regardless what happens tomorrow against Manc. I want that 2013/14 feeling back again, we may not make it,  but,  oh,  the joy and the rush at weekends are stuffs that every football fan wants.

[xRedmanLFCx]

Not sure if I posted in this thread before the season, but I imagine I would have said, "Top 4 and a trophy would be a fantastic season. I'd take top 4."

I still think top 4 would be a good achievement, but we really need to win a trophy. That said, top 4 is the most important. I think anyone involved in the top 4 race this season may also be involved in the title race. After City taking 1 pt from their last 2 games, I don't see any reason why we can't win the league. Forza Liverpool.

[SerbianScouser]

Our season starts NOW.

Our next 8 PL fixtures are :

- Wba
- Palace
- Watford
- Southampton
- Sunderland
- Bournemouth
- W.Ham
- Middlesbro

8 perfectly winnable games. A great opportunity to get away from the pack and build ourselves a bit of leeway before the big games come around again.

[Eleven]

If we are to be title contenders we need to win 7 out of those 8 games, apart from the Southampton game those are all games that title contenders win.

[newterp]

Home, away, home, away, home, away, home, away

Southampton and crystal palace are both away - and will both be toughnatches.

[Bolrick]

Our season starts NOW.

Our next 8 PL fixtures are :

- Wba
- Palace
- Watford
- Southampton
- Sunderland
- Bournemouth
- W.Ham
- Middlesbro

8 perfectly winnable games. A great opportunity to get away from the pack and build ourselves a bit of leeway before the big games come around again.

WBA will be hard....they have been picking up points in their last few matches. A draw might not be a bad result against them.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

WBA will be hard....they have been picking up points in their last few matches. A draw might not be a bad result against them.

We're playing at home, a draw against them means we've dropped points.

[vinothmct]

Our season starts NOW.

Our next 8 PL fixtures are :

- Wba
- Palace
- Watford
- Southampton
- Sunderland
- Bournemouth
- W.Ham
- Middlesbro

8 perfectly winnable games. A great opportunity to get away from the pack and build ourselves a bit of leeway before the big games come around again.

These eight games are season defining fixtures in my opinion. If we could manage 18 or more points. We will be right up there.

The mentality of our team will be shown here 

[Scarlet`]

Home, away, home, away, home, away, home, away

Southampton and crystal palace are both away - and will both be toughnatches.

Yes those I am most worried about too

However, I'm quite optimistic and we need to fight like hungry wolves!  Maybe after those eight games, let's see where we're at on the table, and we keep pushing. 

We can't drop points now!  We need momentum and character!  That is how we can win the league!

[Hij]

If we want to finish top four then we need to beat the shit teams that could be potential banana skins for us. We have a run of teams that we will be favourites against and we need to take this opportunity even if we slip up in the odd one.

These teams all want our points. I'm sure Klopp will be telling them that as well.

If we want to finish higher than just within the top four then these are still the games we need to win.

[Bolrick]

We're playing at home, a draw against them means we've dropped points.

My bad.....thought it was a "defacto away match" after the manure match.

But that doesn't change the fact that WBA have gaining quite a few points in their last few matches. I reckon this will be a harder game for Karis. He will be tested more (especially on set pieces).

But if Firmino, Mane and Coutinho are on form....we should be ok.

[Penfold78]

I tell you what success looks like now that the fuckwits have sold the country a dummy and done a runner: Klopp getting a UK passport. 

So, how's progress against these 10 indicators going in your view?

[Penfold78]

• evidence of youth breaking into the first team, so that we know there is an effective long term model
• the establishment of a strong, recognisable first choice XI
• a mental toughness, with many leaders in many positions
• surving the first month (difficult fixtures) without a RAWK meltdown
• confident goalkeeping, behind a stable CB partnership
• the retention of key talent e.g. Coutinho, Klopp
• greater connection between the fans and the players, with more energy from supporters at Anfield whatever the fixture
• something to play for in May 17
• a recognisable style of play that is feared by our opponents and loved by our fans
• the emergence of a gritty, dominant central midfield with technical composure

 I meant these!

[IzeOfAnfield]

I really want a title challenge, but top 4 would suffice. If we're playing for shit that matters come the month of May then i'll be a happy camper. Not that I don't think Klopp is doing a great job already though.

[Billy The Kid]

I predicted we'd finish 6th at the start of the season

But this season is starting to have 2013/2014 vibe about it already

[Zlen]

Don't do it to yourselves guys.
It's way, way to early for that.

I'm happy with enjoying the fact that we actually look like a team these days and that we have solid cover all around with great players eager to get some playing time.

[kcbworth]

• evidence of youth breaking into the first team, so that we know there is an effective long term model
• the establishment of a strong, recognisable first choice XI
• a mental toughness, with many leaders in many positions
• surving the first month (difficult fixtures) without a RAWK meltdown
• confident goalkeeping, behind a stable CB partnership
• the retention of key talent e.g. Coutinho, Klopp
• greater connection between the fans and the players, with more energy from supporters at Anfield whatever the fixture
• something to play for in May 17
• a recognisable style of play that is feared by our opponents and loved by our fans
• the emergence of a gritty, dominant central midfield with technical composure

Unfortunately for a couple of weeks after Burnley RAWK couldn't stop melting down about how Klopp was crazy not to start Sturridge / won't do well if he "refuses" to just go spend spend spend / his run-run-run model will be found out / etc

Recovered nicely a few weeks later

[farawayred]

A good season would be the one that ends with Klopp's face on these flags:

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I think this second season is shaping up very nicely

[riismeister]

Took a quick look at the first few pages in here to try and get a consensus of what people's expectations were before this season started, and "analyzed" the first 100 responses I could reasonably interpret as straight forrward as written.

Most of the responses (88/100) had an expectation of our final league position this season, but they were all written differently so I've boggled together some regular ones to mean roughly the same thing;
"Title challenge" = "minimum top 4" = "5th is a disappointment" = 4th in my data table
"Top 4 challenge" = "in the mix for top 4 until the end" = "minimum top 6" = 6th in my data table
"Progression" = "better than last season" = "minimum 7th" = 7th in my data table
I realize this is generalizing a bit, so take it for what it is.

Some of the responses only had expectations for our final points tally and/or trophy haul.

Out of the 100, 88 expected an average minimum league position of 4,6.
Out of the 100, 5 expected an average final points tally of minimum 72,8.
Out of the 100, 17 expected to win a trophy.

So, is 4th/5th with a points total of ~73 a reasonable expectation for our league performance this season, after 24 games ?

[anoopvk]

I think the excellent start made us think that we are going to win the league. But are we there yet? This is Klopp's first full season, unlike Conte, he doesn't have a single world class player. Europa league position at this moment would be a good season for me.  Top 4 would be the dream though.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I think the excellent start made us think that we are going to win the league. But are we there yet? This is Klopp's first full season, unlike Conte, he doesn't have a single world class player. Europa league position at this moment would be a good season for me.  Top 4 would be the dream though.

Not getting top four at this rate would be a failure.

[killer-heels]

I think the excellent start made us think that we are going to win the league. But are we there yet? This is Klopp's first full season, unlike Conte, he doesn't have a single world class player. Europa league position at this moment would be a good season for me.  Top 4 would be the dream though.

Anything outside the top four would be a bad season. No trophies, no top four whilst having no Europe isnt good enough.

[MakeUsDream2005]

I think the excellent start made us think that we are going to win the league. But are we there yet? This is Klopp's first full season, unlike Conte, he doesn't have a single world class player. Europa league position at this moment would be a good season for me.  Top 4 would be the dream though.

For me, how we end the season largely depends on how we do against Spurs. If we win that game, suddenly we're out of that winless run and only a point behind them and with more optimism. Lose, and well, the top 4 finish then looks like a huge ask.

I do believe that European football coming back around for Spurs, City, Arsenal and Utd could have a big impact on us, with more time to prepare for games.

[anoopvk]

For me, how we end the season largely depends on how we do against Spurs. If we win that game, suddenly we're out of that winless run and only a point behind them and with more optimism. Lose, and well, the top 4 finish then looks like a huge ask.

I do believe that European football coming back around for Spurs, City, Arsenal and Utd could have a big impact on us, with more time to prepare for games.

Could be .

But this period reminds me of that time when our 343 got figured out b Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal, and later Arsenal and other clubs executed it successfully. At the moment, there is a well working plan against us, defend narrow and deep, hit on the counter.

[rscanderlech]

Anything outside the top four would be a bad season. No trophies, no top four whilst having no Europe isnt good enough.

Yes, and there is especially no excuse when Tottenham have been superior to us for 6 or seven years now, whilst spending considerably less, all the while building a bigger stadium.

[Henry Gale]

Anything outside the top four would be a bad season. No trophies, no top four whilst having no Europe isnt good enough.

Yep,The King was sacked for finishing outside the top 4 and he won a trophy!

If we don't finish in the top 4 it will be a disastrous season.

[UntouchableLuis]

Yep,The King was sacked for finishing outside the top 4 and he won a trophy!

If we don't finish in the top 4 it will be a disastrous season.

Now it will be yes - to go from 8th last year to say 5th might have been something you'd have accepted at the start of the season but to go from seriously challenging for a title, a semi final of one cup with a decent looking FA Cup tie to our current situation has been one of the worst falls I can remember. As people have said it's something Arsenal tend to do over the years but with us we don't usually throw everything away over a week or two.

We absolutely have to finish in the top 4 to save this season now. If we don't then we'll face ridicule all summer and that will be tough for our team and for Klopp. Whatever happens we have to seriously invest in this squad over the summer. Our youngsters don't seem to be good enough to seriously force their way into Klopp's team so we have to buy quality for next year. And if we finish outside the top 4 we'll certainly face a few clubs trying to poach the likes of Coutinho, Sturridge and maybe even Lallana and Firmino. Not saying they'll go but there'll be clubs thinking the time is ripe to offer them CL football.

[Henry Gale]

Now it will be yes - to go from 8th last year to say 5th might have been something you'd have accepted at the start of the season but to go from seriously challenging for a title, a semi final of one cup with a decent looking FA Cup tie to our current situation has been one of the worst falls I can remember. As people have said it's something Arsenal tend to do over the years but with us we don't usually throw everything away over a week or two.

We absolutely have to finish in the top 4 to save this season now. If we don't then we'll face ridicule all summer and that will be tough for our team and for Klopp. Whatever happens we have to seriously invest in this squad over the summer. Our youngsters don't seem to be good enough to seriously force their way into Klopp's team so we have to buy quality for next year. And if we finish outside the top 4 we'll certainly face a few clubs trying to poach the likes of Coutinho, Sturridge and maybe even Lallana and Firmino. Not saying they'll go but there'll be clubs thinking the time is ripe to offer them CL football.

After recent performances I highly doubt  that 

But no joking aside I don't see it. Coutinho maybe but the rest? nah I don't see a top club coming in for them.

[theMilkman]

Anything outside the top four would be a bad season. No trophies, no top four whilst having no Europe isnt good enough.

sad but true. Anything but top 4 would be very poor.

[Durlmints]

So, what do we think?

[jillcwhomever]

So, what do we think?

Personally speaking if you'd have offered me this before the start of the season, I would have taken it. A top four finish with an improved points total in the league equals a solid improvement. Even better than the above we saw a glimpse of our future under this manager and I am well excited. We saw some beautiful attacking football as well as things to improve on, but he's made a solid start, we just need more patience and he will have us going places. Win the qualifier and a place in the CL is a great place to start.

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

So, what do we think?

It was a good season. Most people wanted top four and we got it.

It's a big improvement from last season. Partly expected, being Klopp's first full season after acclimatising last season, but also partly a little better than most expected maybe? Great results against bigger teams. A bit of bad luck with injuries and we still ran Man City close.

[rowan_d]

Didn't expect top 4 in July, but hoped for it

Hoped for the title in December, but didn't expect it

Expected a better run in the FA Cup, and to beat Southampton in the League Cup SF. Tough season to parse, very satisfactory in one aspect, disappointing in others. Became a fight for the top 4 some months ago now, so relief is the main emotion right now. Hopefully a stepping stone of a season to a better, bigger squad and a real challenge for a cup or two without sacrificing the league.

[sms1986]

Challenging for top four and a cup would be a sign of improvement and a good season. I think Klopp will have a very good transfer window this summer and we might not necessarily start off brilliantly, but I think we'll see definite improvement in many ways next season.

I'll take top four easily!

[Medellin]

Top 4 would have been the target & anything else a bonus.
Progress is what its all about & step by step we will fucking get there.
Well done to JK,his staff & all the players for climbing to that next step.
Onwards & upwards redmen!
YNWA.

[Dim Glas]

So, what do we think?

Excellent progress.

The starting 11 is significantly better than last season, with the additions of Mane, Gini and Matip, that is some success rate from one transfer window.

And to get top 4 considering the money thrown around by teams around us, teams who mostly already had better squads, then that in itself is huge.

We've shown we can do it against the best, now to take the next step and do it against those who don't want to play football. And we've shown enough that we can do that, just need to do it consistently.

Now for another good summer of additions and on we go with a man at the helm that this club is damn lucky to have.