Author Topic: Emre Can  (Read 288816 times)

Online mc_red22

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2017, 03:19:07 am »
Give way?

If Oxlade was to come here which i hope not, surely it would be Wijs position who would come under immediate threat as they are both similar players in some ways.

If Oxlade arrives then nobody's position is under threat. He'll be here what he is at Arsenal, a squad player and no more. With the way he's acted at Arsenal regarding not being in the starting 11 as often as he'd like, I'd prefer it if we just left him there. No player should give an ultimatum to the manager and get away with it. Wenger is soft!

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2017, 03:25:24 am »
Can's improved a lot the last couple of games but his issues are the same as they've ever been. He gets dragged out of position too easily to be the designated holding midfielder and he lacks composure going forward. Far too many stray passes and how often does he gets the ball 30 yards from goal and then balloon it over the bar? I'd like to see him get a new contract because we need more depth next year but for me he's a long way from being an automatic first choice.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2017, 03:32:46 am »
He's improved significantly over the past month or so. He had an awful start to the season but over the last 4-5 games he has produced displays full of energy, tenacity and good quality. He's far from automatic first choice, but he's also far from finished article too. I doubt we'll be moving him on next year. It'd be great if he can kick on from his current level but even if he didn't, he's a decent player to have in the squad for a position that we're a little light and hurt by injuries to.

Offline G Richards

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2017, 03:39:29 am »
I'm not quite sure about Can and Henderson in the same midfield. I think they take a little away from each other's game. Can has been doing well of late and we should give him a new deal. He should probably be the defensive midfielder and he can grow in that position. But then again, were we going to look for a specialist in the defensive midfielder role this summer?

I'm not quite sure what I'd do about the whole midfield, but Can is growing in stature and seems to relish the responsibility. He's well worth a new deal.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2017, 04:02:52 am »
I'm not quite sure about Can and Henderson in the same midfield. I think they take a little away from each other's game. Can has been doing well of late and we should give him a new deal. He should probably be the defensive midfielder and he can grow in that position. But then again, were we going to look for a specialist in the defensive midfielder role this summer?

I'm not quite sure what I'd do about the whole midfield, but Can is growing in stature and seems to relish the responsibility. He's well worth a new deal.

Can, Hendo and Gini are all quite similar in that all 3 are robust players, great athleticism and energy, generally good passers and can also score the odd goal. I'd say Can is the weakest of that bunch but probably has the greatest potential given his young age.

We don't really know what sort of player Grujic will become, and it appears that Lucas will probably move on after the season ends. I would say we are definitely in need of a top notch defensive midfielder. That and a top LB would probably do more for our defence than a new GK or new CB.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #85 on: April 18, 2017, 04:36:24 am »
Can, Hendo and Gini are all quite similar in that all 3 are robust players, great athleticism and energy, generally good passers and can also score the odd goal. I'd say Can is the weakest of that bunch but probably has the greatest potential given his young age.
Agree with the bit in bold. It'll be interesting to see what sort of midfielder Klopp brings in, but my guess is that it will be someone more in the Lallana role than a DM, leaving our options as:

              Henderson
                 Can

       Lallana    Wijnaldum
      New CM     Grujic

As you said, Can is probably not getting in ahead of the other 3, but in time he'll take over from Henderson as the starting DM.

Quote
We don't really know what sort of player Grujic will become, and it appears that Lucas will probably move on after the season ends. I would say we are definitely in need of a top notch defensive midfielder. That and a top LB would probably do more for our defence than a new GK or new CB.
The drop in quality between Matip-Lovren and Klavan/Lucas is one of the very first things that needs to be addressed.

As for LB, I don't think a "top" LB is needed if we sign someone like Sessegnon to be an understudy for Milner and be a long-term solution at LB. That approach makes more sense than buying a more experienced LB as that would waste Milner a bit. Better to make use of Milner while he's still good, and then gradually phase in Sessegnon/other good young LB.

Offline simbo

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2017, 10:55:21 am »
Agree with the bit in bold. It'll be interesting to see what sort of midfielder Klopp brings in, but my guess is that it will be someone more in the Lallana role than a DM, leaving our options as:

              Henderson
                 Can

       Lallana    Wijnaldum
      New CM     Grujic

As you said, Can is probably not getting in ahead of the other 3, but in time he'll take over from Henderson as the starting DM.
The drop in quality between Matip-Lovren and Klavan/Lucas is one of the very first things that needs to be addressed.

As for LB, I don't think a "top" LB is needed if we sign someone like Sessegnon to be an understudy for Milner and be a long-term solution at LB. That approach makes more sense than buying a more experienced LB as that would waste Milner a bit. Better to make use of Milner while he's still good, and then gradually phase in Sessegnon/other good young LB.

Sessegnon will be too god to be a Left back same as trent will be to good to be a right back

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #87 on: April 18, 2017, 11:25:59 am »
Sessegnon will be too god to be a Left back same as trent will be to good to be a right back

I never get this argument. Like being a full back is some sort of lesser role. The way Liverpool play, full backs are hugely important. Having 2 very good ones is imperative, and we do, but we can surely do with another.

Offline nico 8

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #88 on: April 18, 2017, 11:30:50 am »
Whilst Can has been in good form, I am still not sure what his best position is. Has he really played defensive midfield when Lucas has played. As slow as Lucas is, I do think that Lucas has better distribution and decision making than Can. Has this not freed Can to a certain extent in the sense that he has less responsibility in holding his position. Can allowed to press higher up?
I am not suggesting that Lucas is here to stay  but do believe that his intelligence is what gives the midfield balance, Something which Can lacks at the moment. It also concerns me that Can doesn't have the technical ability on the ball to play 6 as he dithers on the ball to long and is weak on the turn. I think he is better suited further upfield in a high press. I believe that we need another defensive midfielder who has good technical ability and intelligent distribution. A deep-lying playmaker in the mould of Alonso would be ideal.
Credit to Can for playing  through his bad patch. He certainly has determination and fight and has a place in the squad.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #89 on: April 18, 2017, 01:12:35 pm »

The drop in quality between Matip-Lovren and Klavan/Lucas is one of the very first things that needs to be addressed.

As for LB, I don't think a "top" LB is needed if we sign someone like Sessegnon to be an understudy for Milner and be a long-term solution at LB. That approach makes more sense than buying a more experienced LB as that would waste Milner a bit. Better to make use of Milner while he's still good, and then gradually phase in Sessegnon/other good young LB.

I still think LB is a priority for us. It's an important position in the team, and we need a player that is actually good there. Milner is steady but unspectacular. He has done really well there because we haven't had anyone good there. It's time we changed that. Maybe Sessegnon will be the lad we need. Still seems quite young and unproven to me but I suppose we'll see.

Offline mickeydocs

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2017, 02:03:56 pm »
I still think LB is a priority for us. It's an important position in the team, and we need a player that is actually good there. Milner is steady but unspectacular. He has done really well there because we haven't had anyone good there. It's time we changed that. Maybe Sessegnon will be the lad we need. Still seems quite young and unproven to me but I suppose we'll see.

What has this got to do with Emre Can?

Looks like Emre is rediscovering his form. Will be a massive player for LFC in the coming years.
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Offline Petadroli

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2017, 03:04:47 pm »
What has this got to do with Emre Can?

Looks like Emre is rediscovering his form. Will be a massive player for LFC in the coming years.

I agree. While he was subpar in the first half of the season, he came out swinging in the second. His goal against Burnley was very important and in general he has given us some much needed steel in the middle of the park. First touch and passing still need some work, but he is doing well. His stats show that too, this season he has 4 goals and 2 assists, while last season he had one single goal and no assists in the league (in about the same number of games).
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Offline Miltonred

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2017, 03:07:45 pm »
I can see Klopp signing a player to be ahead of Can in the pecking order, but keeping Can as a solid back-up. We are short of midfielders with known quality, so selling him to buy one, doesn't help as much as buying one and keeping him.

Offline Curtisinho

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2017, 03:09:38 pm »
As someone who has always been hard on Can, and still don't think he's good enough to be a starter for us if we want to challenge for the title or the CL, I have been pleasantly surprised with his play of late. He's definitely stepped it up and deserves credit for that. Well in. Always love when a Liverpool player is performing well.
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Offline Tony19:6

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2017, 03:38:50 pm »
For me Can is showing his true form after carrying a knock for most of the season.

Good in the air, strong in the tackle, very important that be keeps this up for the run in.
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Offline AaronSingh25

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2017, 03:45:11 pm »
Getting back to some good form.

Shame he wasted 3/4 of the season finding it.

Offline catinthebag

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2017, 04:11:29 pm »
I never get this argument. Like being a full back is some sort of lesser role. The way Liverpool play, full backs are hugely important. Having 2 very good ones is imperative, and we do, but we can surely do with another.

Maybe it comes from having the least talented players in the casual games play fullback? Like how the least talented friends tend to play bass or are asked to learn the drums. That sort of idea carries over into our assessment of professionals too, no matter how many Cafus, Fleas and John Bonhams there are.
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Offline hassinator

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #97 on: April 20, 2017, 08:20:58 am »
will he be off in the summer?  he didn't cost much so perhaps it makes sense to play him to the end of his contract but i'd guess we'd take a decent bid and this sounds a bit like the boss preserving value in a player that's getting close to the end.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/19/liverpool-refuse-issue-ultimatum-emre-can-contract-negotiations/

melissa reddy has also suggested we'd be open to an offer.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/8/main/2017/03/12/33551882/why-juventus-target-emre-can-must-convince-liverpool-to-show-him-

guardian also reporting this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/liverpool-emre-can-four-year-deal
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:27:23 am by hassinator »

Offline vinothmct

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #98 on: April 20, 2017, 08:51:27 am »
If we sell Can . The FSG philosophy is clearly not working.

It will only make us a cash cow (i.e) Selling club.

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #99 on: April 20, 2017, 08:53:17 am »
Just give him a new deal already. We need good players like him to stay in the squad.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #100 on: April 20, 2017, 09:21:05 am »
will he be off in the summer?  he didn't cost much so perhaps it makes sense to play him to the end of his contract but i'd guess we'd take a decent bid and this sounds a bit like the boss preserving value in a player that's getting close to the end.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/19/liverpool-refuse-issue-ultimatum-emre-can-contract-negotiations/

melissa reddy has also suggested we'd be open to an offer.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/8/main/2017/03/12/33551882/why-juventus-target-emre-can-must-convince-liverpool-to-show-him-

guardian also reporting this story:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/liverpool-emre-can-four-year-deal
This sounds to me like a PR stunt by the club to call Emre's bluff: He wants a better contract and wants to use his expiring contract leverage, but the club is standing their ground and playing it cool, unlike Koeman who's ultimatum to Barkley just comes across as desperate and hollow.

Reality is that despite wanting the salary of Henderson and Lallana, Emre is behind both of them in the pecking order, along with being 5-7 years younger than them too, and still has a lot to prove before he gets handed a contract worth £100k.

Thus, it's quite understandable that the club is taking a hard stance, because if they give every 21 year old player what they want (without them having proved that they should be worth that much) then they'd be setting a risky precedent given that their model involves bringing in young players and paying them what they're worth.

If he doesn't want to be part of Klopp's long-term project then I'm sure Klopp won't struggle to attract someone who does, as there are many good CM's available, such as Leon Goretzka who actually also has just 12 months on his contract.

Bottom line is that if Can wants a bigger contract then he'll have to prove that he's worth it by performing on the pitch first - which is exactly the way it should be.

Offline HeartAndSoul

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #101 on: April 20, 2017, 09:35:20 am »
So he's on 55k and he's looking to be on par with Hendo and Lallana who are both on 100k when he's only had a handful of good games this season? We've probably offered him 75-80k and he's turning that down? Stinking and shocking attitude to have. Sign an extra 3 years on what he currently has and if he's playing consistantly well then I'm sure it won't be long before he's offered an improved contract again (see Coutinho for example).

He's probably seen shite like Lingaard getting 120k and probably saying he could do the same but I'm pretty sure Juve have a wage cap.

Offline Jookie

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2017, 09:36:29 am »
In my opinion Emre Can shouldn't be getting a new contract off the back of a month of good performances. He should be getting a new contract (or not) on the basis of what he's done over the 100+ games he's played for the club. Or at least the 60+ games he's played under Klopp.

Personally I'd be really sad to see him go. However, it's not a black and white situation. Without knowing what he's demanding then it's hard to know whether he's worth keeping or not. Also, we don't know what Klopp's plans are for next season -  both in terms of tactical changes and personnel changes. New additions in the midfield area may mean there's less value in keeping Can on a much improved long term contract.

Like I said, I'd be really sad to see him leave. He's a player of immense talent. I think he's biggest hurdle at Liverpool is suitability to the system and Henderson as the preferred No.6. I have no doubt that Emre Can could be absolutely devastating in a midfield position in Italy or Spain. The slightly slower pace would suit him immensely. That's part of the reason I would keep him though. I think he could be vital in a CL campaign.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #103 on: April 20, 2017, 09:38:40 am »
http://www. twat .co.uk/football/2017/04/19/liverpool-refuse-issue-ultimatum-emre-can-contract-negotiations/

Don't link to that bellend.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #104 on: April 20, 2017, 09:57:20 am »
The club has already gone that route; henderson and lallana and probably more got contract extentions and higher wages when they were on a good streak of games..

And now Can understandably wants to follow..

No point in giving extended contracts to people on long/mid-term contracts unless there are extreme interest from other clubs..

It would make more sense to have extended Can’s contract now than throwing money after Henderson/Lallana, and playing hardball now makes it two wrongs
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2017, 10:30:58 am »
The club has already gone that route; henderson and lallana and probably more got contract extentions and higher wages when they were on a good streak of games..

And now Can understandably wants to follow..

No point in giving extended contracts to people on long/mid-term contracts unless there are extreme interest from other clubs..

It would make more sense to have extended Can’s contract now than throwing money after Henderson/Lallana, and playing hardball now makes it two wrongs
Henderson is the club captain and has performed well for the club for the better part of 6 years. Lallana is probably the first name on the team sheet when he's fit. Both of them are in the prime of their careers at age 26-28.

Can has immense potential, but he's yet to play well for an extended period of time (eg. a full season), nor does he start if everyone is fit.

The player has leverage due to the expiring contract, but likewise the club also has leverage because he's far from irreplaceable, and other players who want to win stuff know that they will have the opportunities to do so with Klopp and Liverpool.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2017, 10:35:56 am »
So he's on 55k and he's looking to be on par with Hendo and Lallana who are both on 100k when he's only had a handful of good games this season? We've probably offered him 75-80k and he's turning that down? Stinking and shocking attitude to have.

 ;D Amazing how many are straight up the clubs arse and hammering players after hearing a story from one side!

Offline Chalky Boots

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2017, 11:03:56 am »
He's not a DMat all, he's a box to box player who appears to know how to track back and defend.
Lucas was playing the DM position yesterday, Can was the number 8 alongside Gini.

He's a 6, I'm pretty sure he's said it himself and his best games against Villarreal and City - where he looked genuinely elite - came playing at the base. He said this time last year that he felt at home in that role.

He can play as an 8 in the same way Javi Martinez or a Khedira can play as an 8, but they're better as a 6 or in Javi's case (since his injuries) a CB.

The idea should be for us to have a midfield of 6 first team players, no squad players by their purest definition. So long as we get back into the champions league there will be plenty of games for Henderson and Emre Can as the defensive midfielder next season, and don't forget Emre is a few years younger so he'll get his chance to cement his place at some point.

Obviously the ball is in his court at this point, and I really hope he stays because he's an outstanding talent but there will have to be a compromise at some point. I think he's at a point where he could probably go back to say Bayern and start as their 6, and we shouldn't be letting that kind of player go because it'll take miracle to find that calibre of player for the fee we'd likely get for him.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #108 on: April 20, 2017, 11:04:02 am »
Henderson is the club captain and has performed well for the club for the better part of 6 years. Lallana is probably the first name on the team sheet when he's fit. Both of them are in the prime of their careers at age 26-28.

Can has immense potential, but he's yet to play well for an extended period of time (eg. a full season), nor does he start if everyone is fit.

The player has leverage due to the expiring contract, but likewise the club also has leverage because he's far from irreplaceable, and other players who want to win stuff know that they will have the opportunities to do so with Klopp and Liverpool.

The club hasn’t learnt much after the lunacy of handing gerrard/carragher bumper contracts at the end of the career. Henderson and Lallana had a long
Way to go on their contracts; they were on very good wages – no one was seriously interested in buying them out and they would not get better contracts elsewhere.. Misunderstood signs of good action to throw more money after them.. Would they run any faster ? No, they wouldn’t and their best option would be to stay at the old contracts.. Improved contracts should be to secure your assets; not to fill the pension funds to players that don’t have better alternatives

It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #109 on: April 20, 2017, 11:09:31 am »
The club hasn’t learnt much after the lunacy of handing gerrard/carragher bumper contracts at the end of the career. Henderson and Lallana had a long
Way to go on their contracts; they were on very good wages – no one was seriously interested in buying them out and they would not get better contracts elsewhere.. Misunderstood signs of good action to throw more money after them.. Would they run any faster ? No, they wouldn’t and their best option would be to stay at the old contracts.. Improved contracts should be to secure your assets; not to fill the pension funds to players that don’t have better alternatives

Henderson was about to enter his final 12 months, so you're incorrect there. (Hunter - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/23/jordan-henderson-five-year-liverpool-contract)

Lallana was also likely approaching his final 12 months, having signed in summer 2014. So highly likely you're also wrong there too.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #110 on: April 20, 2017, 11:11:04 am »
The club hasn’t learnt much after the lunacy of handing gerrard/carragher bumper contracts at the end of the career. Henderson and Lallana had a long
Way to go on their contracts; they were on very good wages – no one was seriously interested in buying them out and they would not get better contracts elsewhere.. Misunderstood signs of good action to throw more money after them.. Would they run any faster ? No, they wouldn’t and their best option would be to stay at the old contracts.. Improved contracts should be to secure your assets; not to fill the pension funds to players that don’t have better alternatives
Maybe the club just feels that they pay players what they are worth, and increasing their wage if and when they deserve it. That sets a good example to other players at the club, as well as prospective players, who know that if they perform as well as Henderson and Lallana have, they will be rewarded.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #111 on: April 20, 2017, 11:21:50 am »
Henderson was about to enter his final 12 months, so you're incorrect there. (Hunter - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/23/jordan-henderson-five-year-liverpool-contract)

Lallana was also likely approaching his final 12 months, having signed in summer 2014. So highly likely you're also wrong there too.

I stand corrected if they were entering 12 their final months, but given 28-year old lallana a 4-5 year contract is still lunacy..



It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #112 on: April 20, 2017, 11:22:41 am »
I stand corrected if they were entering 12 their final months, but given 28-year old lallana a 4-5 year contract is still lunacy..

We gave him a 3 year deal.

Are you just making stuff up now to complain?

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #113 on: April 20, 2017, 11:23:05 am »
Maybe the club just feels that they pay players what they are worth, and increasing their wage if and when they deserve it. That sets a good example to other players at the club, as well as prospective players, who know that if they perform as well as Henderson and Lallana have, they will be rewarded.

That's exactly what Can is doing now, so the club will have to pay up..



It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline rickardinho1

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #114 on: April 20, 2017, 11:24:56 am »
That's exactly what Can is doing now, so the club will have to pay up..
Except Can isn't in the First XI if everyone is fit, Lallana and Henderson are. And a good month here and there doesn't mean that he's proved anything yet.

Offline Johnny Foreigner

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #115 on: April 20, 2017, 11:26:33 am »
We gave him a 3 year deal.

Are you just making stuff up now to complain?

By all means; you are probably right and I just make things up to complain.

Whats your motive for your FSG-support ?




"The 28-year-old is believed to have signed a three-year, £110,000-a-week deal, with the option to extend the contract by a further year.

This would keep him at Anfield under 2021, when he will be 33, in a hotly debated move by Liverpool’s recruitment staff, now led by sporting director Michael Edwards."


It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #116 on: April 20, 2017, 11:30:24 am »
By all means; you are probably right and I just make things up to complain.

Whats your motive for your FSG-support ?

FSG have nothing to do with you posting 3 'facts' which you are complaining about, only for all 3 of them to be factually incorrect despite being easily fact checked online.


Quote
"The 28-year-old is believed to have signed a three-year, £110,000-a-week deal, with the option to extend the contract by a further year.

This would keep him at Anfield under 2021, when he will be 33, in a hotly debated move by Liverpool’s recruitment staff, now led by sporting director Michael Edwards."

See the bolded bit.

Not 4. Not 5. 3 years.

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #117 on: April 20, 2017, 11:31:02 am »
i dont think Can has done enough to earn the same wages as Henderson and Lallana. Just my opinion i think the club are totally right in not offering him those wages.

Personally. if he doesn't sign, i would like to see us sell him and bring in someone who is better at recieving the ball from the defence , turning with the ball and passing vertically rather than horizontally. Im not well versed in emerging talent but im sure there are players out there who are quicker on the turn with the energy to play in a Klopp system.

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #118 on: April 20, 2017, 11:32:13 am »
Except Can isn't in the First XI if everyone is fit, Lallana and Henderson are. And a good month here and there doesn't mean that he's proved anything yet.

You're probably right, but in 2020 Lallana won't be in starting eleven; most likely not henderson either..

they would be on good contracts though..

just like carragher was..
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

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Re: Emre Can
« Reply #119 on: April 20, 2017, 11:33:32 am »
He might want to wait for CL qualification before he commits himself to a new contract IF Juve are sniffing.