Topic: Re: Manchester City 1 vs Liverpool 1 - (Milner (p) 50'; Aguero 69')

[jillcwhomever]

I thought that was one of Emre Can's best performances in a red shirt.

He was a beast today. Watching him bursting through the City midfield was just mesmerising. I really want to see more of this Emre Can, as he could prove to be a useful weapon for us. Also his tackling was so powerful today, he was just totally on it. Thought he was unlucky not to get man of the match to be honest.

[SerbianScouser]

If Can wasn't unfortunate to get injured just before the opening game against Arsenal I think all those games he would have had as our 6 since then would have allowed him to develop and we'd be talking about one of the better DM's around as his potential in this role is immense.

He has everything you need for the role and more. Drive from deep positions, moving with the ball, using his body to shield the ball under pressure. Last 4 games he had an assist vs Leicester, winning goal vs Burnley, "assist" for the penalty today where he opens up their defence with a lovely chip. He's flourishing on both sides of the ball and really deserves a run of games now to showcase his immense natural predisposition for this role.

If Klopp truly believes in meritocracy Can deserves to keep his place as our 6.

[BazC]

If Can wasn't unfortunate to get injured just before the opening game against Arsenal I think all those games he would have had as our 6 since then would have allowed him to develop and we'd be talking about one of the better DM's around as his potential in this role is immense.

He has everything you need for the role and more. Drive from deep positions, moving with the ball, using his body to shield the ball under pressure. Last 4 games he had an assist vs Leicester, winning goal vs Burnley, "assist" for the penalty today where he opens up their defence with a lovely chip. He's flourishing on both sides of the ball and really deserves a run of games now to showcase his immense natural predisposition for this role.

If Klopp truly believes in meritocracy Can deserves to keep his place as our 6.

He's way too slow on the ball when we play a deep defence, and he doesn't read the game quickly enough when defending a counter. There's absolutely no way he should be our number 6 next season, not even the back up.

[Kop307]

Thoughts on Coutinho?

Not been right since he's come back. What's that now, 1 goal in 13 appearances.

Is it form? Has his head been turned? Is he injured? Fatigue?

He looks a shadow of the player from the first 2 months of the season, for whatever reason.

[sms1986]

I think it's just form, if he can get a couple of games where he scores I think he'll be back to his very best.

[darragh85]

Thoughts on Coutinho?

Not been right since he's come back. What's that now, 1 goal in 13 appearances.

Is it form? Has his head been turned? Is he injured? Fatigue?

He looks a shadow of the player from the first 2 months of the season, for whatever reason.

by who? he hasnt done it on a consistent enough basis to attract any interest from the big guns imo.

[El Lobo]

If Can wasn't unfortunate to get injured just before the opening game against Arsenal I think all those games he would have had as our 6 since then would have allowed him to develop and we'd be talking about one of the better DM's around as his potential in this role is immense.

He has everything you need for the role and more. Drive from deep positions, moving with the ball, using his body to shield the ball under pressure. Last 4 games he had an assist vs Leicester, winning goal vs Burnley, "assist" for the penalty today where he opens up their defence with a lovely chip. He's flourishing on both sides of the ball and really deserves a run of games now to showcase his immense natural predisposition for this role.

If Klopp truly believes in meritocracy Can deserves to keep his place as our 6.

It's a nice thought for you but again, it's pretty disrespectful to the manager to suggest he'd change his preferred team based on Emre Can missing a couple of games through injury. Henderson is first choice there and rightly so, but it's good that Can has raised his game in the last two/three from the dreadful level he was at before. Once Hendo is fit he'll be back in the role

[Oddball]

Personally don't hold anything against Lallana for the miss.

Fully agree. I blame the captain of Pan American flight 282.

[SerbianScouser]

It's a nice thought for you but again, it's pretty disrespectful to the manager to suggest he'd change his preferred team based on Emre Can missing a couple of games through injury.

It's something that happens all the time in football. Roma and Barca games were dress rehearsals for the opening game against Arsenal, Can started in both while Hendo was on the bench. Can got injured and Hendo took his chance. Something like this happens in football all the time. Like you said the bottom line is that we have two competent no.6s in our squad right now and that should be pleasing to everyone because the narrative after the Sunderland game was that there was supposed to be some huge drop-off from Hendo to Can - I think it's safe to say people were very wrong with that one.

[jillcwhomever]

Thoughts on Coutinho?

Not been right since he's come back. What's that now, 1 goal in 13 appearances.

Is it form? Has his head been turned? Is he injured? Fatigue?

He looks a shadow of the player from the first 2 months of the season, for whatever reason.

You are obssessed by this question. He showed really positive signs in the second half. Put Bobby through with a beautiful ball, which Bobby maybe should have done better with. He also did other things, which were encouraging. He just needs more match practice and hopefully a goal to bring his confidence back strongly. It can take a time to get your sharpness and confidence back especially when you consider how well he played at the start of the season. He will be an important player for us in the run in.

[peterstone]

As a Liverpool fan, wouldn't you also be happy with that?

Happy?

I'd dance round the moon naked

[liverpool185]

Just watching MOTD2 and that Lallana miss looks more worse everytime its replayed, I don't even think he can explain it himself 

[Lycan]

Just seen that Lallana miss again.   

[Gerry Attrick]

Not a bad result. Slightly disappointed not to get 3 but can't be too upset with just 1 against Man City.

[cdav]

Am I the only one who thinks even if Mane kicks Otamendi- Otamendi is fouling him by pulling his arm? Its a foul, a pen and a red card

[El Lobo]

It's something that happens all the time in football. Roma and Barca games were dress rehearsals for the opening game against Arsenal, Can started in both while Hendo was on the bench. Can got injured and Hendo took his chance. Something like this happens in football all the time. Like you said the bottom line is that we have two competent no.6s in our squad right now and that should be pleasing to everyone because the narrative after the Sunderland game was that there was supposed to be some huge drop-off from Hendo to Can - I think it's safe to say people were very wrong with that one.

Well, I think it's safer to say there was a huge drop off from Hendo to Can and there since has been from Wiji or Lallana to Can until very recently, where he's improved. Even the Burnley game, and it was a cracking important goal he scored, he was pretty dreadful. As mentioned he's certainly raised his game, and it'll be nice to see him maintain that and give the manager a decision to make, but it doesn't change the past.

As for those games being dress rehearsals for the season opener...I think you must be fishing, in which case good cast. Pretty sure we lined up with two completely different set ups, a two man CM being one of them with Sturridge and Ojo in the attack (and Manninger in net)

[jillcwhomever]

It happens to the best of them, Suarez missed a sitter as well tonight. Not dwelling on it, that is football.

[Phil M]

4 pts from 6 against any season with the attack they have I'll take any day.

[Oddball]

As someone who's slagged him this season, he was excellent. The biggest issue with Emre, is that although he's a good player, he's only suited to playing as our No.6, and that's Henderson's position. Henderson is a better player than Emre, which means he's either on the bench or you're playing him in the 2 ahead of Henderson, and both Lallana and Wijnaldum are better than him there. It's an awkward one. Hopefully if we have Europe next season they can be rotated.

Thats an interesting observation. Can I just check 1st. No. 6? The player shielding the back line yes?
You say Henderson is better than Can in that position. In passing yes, but in tackling Id say it was Can. The ability to drive forward and take on players, thats Can or me again. This isnt a Henderson slagging off post, Im genuinely curious as how you see Henderson defiantly being better than Can in the DM role.

[Lycan]

Am I the only one who thinks even if Mane kicks Otamendi- Otamendi is fouling him by pulling his arm? Its a foul, a pen and a red card

 Not a pen for me.

[Oddball]

Not a pen for me.

Agreed. Deffo not a pen.

[jillcwhomever]

4 pts from 6 against any season with the attack they have I'll take any day.

Just as impressive is Klopp's results against all the top teams since arriving in the Premiership.

P24 W12 D11 L1  42:20 in all competitions.

P11 W6 D5           17 : 9 this season.

Thanks to Serbian Scouser for the statistics. 

[cdav]

Agreed. Deffo not a pen.

Shows how hard it is as I thought it was stone wall! He is impeded from shooting by a defender, doesn't matter if accidental or not

[TepidT2O]

Shows how hard it is as I thought it was stone wall! He is impeded from shooting by a defender, doesn't matter if accidental or not

Yeah, there is that... it doesn't have to be deliberate...

Still... ended up pretty fair in the end...

What is more, I can't imagine it not having been give a foul outside of the area...  The actually penalty would have been a foul too....

[liverpool185]

Must admit I've said it a couple of times that I don't really rate Wijnaldum as I've seen how bad he has been for Newcastle but the Leicester game aside. I have been really really impressed with him lately, he's really starting to express himself more and is becoming more imposing in the midfield, some of his runs and all round play were outrageous and that chip to Firmino that led to Lallana missing a sitter was delightful. Hope he keeps it up as you can see when he plays like today he has all the tools to become a great midfielder, I just find his consistency let's him down sometimes. 

[Kop307]

Thats an interesting observation. Can I just check 1st. No. 6? The player shielding the back line yes?
You say Henderson is better than Can in that position. In passing yes, but in tackling Id say it was Can. The ability to drive forward and take on players, thats Can or me again. This isnt a Henderson slagging off post, Im genuinely curious as how you see Henderson defiantly being better than Can in the DM role.

I think Henderson controls the game better than Emre Can. He has the ability to take the ball and pass with purpose and get us on the attack quickly. He's better on the floor with his passing, he really fizzes the ball into players whereas Emre can be quite slow, takes 3/4 touches where Henderson may take 2. Henderson has the ability to control the speed of a game, and in big away games it's really important. At 1-0 today the game was fucking hectic, and It needed someone to get their foot on the ball and keep it ticking. We kept loosing the ball over and over. Yes it's great when Emre drives forward it's brilliant, I loved it today, but is that what you want from your deepest midfielder? Maybe. I don't know.

I think Henderson controls the referee better than Emre. I agree Emre is better carrying the ball forward. Henderson's long passing is also better than Emre's, but Emre is more of a goal threat. There's not much in it, and I'm not even a Henderson fanboy, I just personally think Henderson is a better player.

I will caveat this by saying Klopp has a lot of time for Emre. Whenever he's been fit he's put him in the team, this season and last. Perhps it's the German connection.

[Oddball]

Shows how hard it is as I thought it was stone wall! He is impeded from shooting by a defender, doesn't matter if accidental or not

I didnt see it as him being impeded at all mate. I thought when Mane pulled his leg back to shoot it was Mane himself that made contact with the defenders leg. As you said, shows how difficult it is. Careful what we wish for with tv replays coming in next season in the cup.

[Oddball]

I think Henderson controls the game better than Emre Can. He has the ability to take the ball and pass with purpose and get us on the attack quickly. He's better on the floor with his passing, he really fizzes the ball into players whereas Emre can be quite slow, takes 3/4 touches where Henderson may take 2. Henderson has the ability to control the speed of a game, and in big away games it's really important. At 1-0 today the game was fucking hectic, and It needed someone to get their foot on the ball and keep it ticking. We kept loosing the ball over and over. Yes it's great when Emre drives forward it's brilliant, I loved it today, but is that what you want from your deepest midfielder? Maybe. I don't know.

I think Henderson controls the referee better than Emre. I agree Emre is better carrying the ball forward. Henderson's long passing is also better than Emre's, but Emre is more of a goal threat. There's not much in it, and I'm not even a Henderson fanboy, I just personally think Henderson is a better player.

I will caveat this by saying Klopp has a lot of time for Emre. Whenever he's been fit he's put him in the team, this season and last. Perhps it's the German connection.

Interesting analysis. Cheers mate. Just goes to show how tough it is, and we dont have to choose the team

[Anfield89]

Thoughts on Coutinho?

Not been right since he's come back. What's that now, 1 goal in 13 appearances.

Is it form? Has his head been turned? Is he injured? Fatigue?

He looks a shadow of the player from the first 2 months of the season, for whatever reason.

He was Better today than he has been. Never worried about him in the big games it was at the very least an improvement. It was a game where anyone could have won and you couldn't of had any complaints

[Anfield89]

Not a pen for me.

Never ever a pen. Milner on sterling was a pen regardless if he taps it in or not. Very good game very good point. People should see that for the game it was and any out come ( first Time for me too) would have been acceptable I think. Well done reds

[slimbo]

Lallana as well. I hope someone is having a word with him about that miss. That is fucking criminal. If we miss out on the top 4 by 2 points, how bad will that look.

Yeah, hope someone thinks to do that because he would have no idea how bad it was. Having a word to him about it will certainly make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Clint Eastwood]

Good midfield performance, shame the front 3 weren't their usual selves. Emre Can. I've given him a fair share of stick this season, but fair play today, he was excellent.

Matip good too - he's a strange player, but he's a very good one, and he was free. Incredible.

[Jake]

Can had his best game of the season for me today.

If he can get himself playing like that every game, then he can displace one of the Hendo-Gini-Lallana trio.

[didi]

Fourth place won't be decided by today it will with games against West Bromwich, West Ham, Stoke , Palace etc it's important it goes to the wire when United have spurs and arsenal last 3, games

[Dougle]

Re Coutinho today,

He was Better today than he has been. Never worried about him in the big games it was at the very least an improvement. It was a game where anyone could have won and you couldn't of had any complaints

Just finished watching the game for the second time. (Best game of this season for me). I think PC still looks like he is playing within himself. Only my observation and only my opinion but he got beaten rather easily in a few 50-50's. Maybe he still doesn't quite trust the ankle or something ? He looked a bit down on himself today. In saying that he played one peach of a reverse pass to Bobby and his football brain seemed switched on. My opinion only but I think physically he is not the same player he was pre-the injury and it's affecting his confidence in himself. But, I am probably wrong !

[Dougle]

That was an absolutely mental game, a succession of easy chances and situations missed for both teams. We arguably shaded the number of those situations, but really a draw's a fair result. Lallana's miss though, Jesus. He had time to take a touch on that and make sure, so much space.

Milner - what a professional, great penalty, and a sign of the sheer quality of some of City's players that about the only situation all match he didn't deal with brilliantly ended in a goal.

Firmino - absolutely immense, though very poor on that breakaway failing to pass to Lallana, looked knackered when he took the shot.

Mane and Coutinho - if either of them had played close to their best we would have destroyed them, but Coutinho was tidy without being consistently dangerous, and Mane was just off.

Clyne - generally impressive in defence against a very good Sane, but he really is mediocre with the ball at his feet, messed up or slowed down a lot of good situations today. The whole right hand side was poor going forwards.


Origi - I love him but he could really do with swallowing some PCP or something, needs to believe in his physique more - if he played with real aggression he could absolutely dominate, like that break at the end where there's a bouncing ball - if he'd committed to that he might have come out with the ball, but in the end he just let the two City lads contest it and he does that kind of thing too often. Has all the tools but it's a question of confidence as to whether he'll become immense or merely useful.

Really want to give praise to Wijnaldium and Can though. The former was, along with Milner, the coolest head on the pitch and looked like he was playing in a different match at times. A hub of great possession, shielded the ball and emerged from tight pressing in control again and again, varied his passing and cut City open once or twice, probably his best performance for us in a season where he's just been getting better and better.

And Can, playing like that he's putting down an argument for a shift to 4-2-3-1 next season, or maybe even to take Henderson's place - it's a very tough call between those two but Can was physically immense, brutal in the tackle and showed an injection of pace and directness that tore City's midfield apart a few times, lovely to watch and also his best performance of the season.

As a final word, and I wouldn't usually mention opposition players, but Otamendi. Where the hell did that come from? He was utterly immense and saved them on so many occasions where it was either a well timed-tackle from him or an almost certain goal. Fair play to him. Stones, too, was solid and is starting to grow as a defender.

What a game, solid point, need to start picking up points against lesser teams now because, Everton aside, we've no more 'big' games left.

Excellent post, as usual.

[JackWard33]

If Can wasn't unfortunate to get injured just before the opening game against Arsenal I think all those games he would have had as our 6 since then would have allowed him to develop and we'd be talking about one of the better DM's around as his potential in this role is immense.

He has everything you need for the role and more. Drive from deep positions, moving with the ball, using his body to shield the ball under pressure. Last 4 games he had an assist vs Leicester, winning goal vs Burnley, "assist" for the penalty today where he opens up their defence with a lovely chip. He's flourishing on both sides of the ball and really deserves a run of games now to showcase his immense natural predisposition for this role.

If Klopp truly believes in meritocracy Can deserves to keep his place as our 6.

On and on with banging this drum. He's never been picked over Jordan there when they've both been fit for good reason - he won't be when Jordan is fit again.

[jckliew]

Michael oliver turning into dross of a ref.

[the_red_pill]

Yeah, hope someone thinks to do that because he would have no idea how bad it was. Having a word to him about it will certainly make sure it doesn't happen again.

They should make him sit in the corner and think hard about what he's done. He's let everyone down, including himself.

That will teach him.

[Dougle]

Michael oliver turning into dross of a ref.

Don't think so. I quite like him as a ref. He (they) possibly got a couple of decisions wrong but this happens. I like the way he refs. It was an absolute smasher of a game with a lot of incident. The ref did not spoil it for me.