Topic: Elections in Europe

[Gods_Left_Boot]

He's refusing to endorse a centrist, moderate liberal. And refusing to condemn a fascist.

It's a despicable stance to take.

Is right.

[zebenzui]

He's refusing to endorse a centrist, moderate liberal. And refusing to condemn a fascist.

It's a despicable stance to take.

Didn't he condemn her in the televised debates?

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Didn't he condemn her in the televised debates?

And yet he's not telling his supporters to oppose her in the only possible meaningful way, i.e. in the voting booth.

[killer-heels]

French President doesn't have any power. But I think Le Pen will probably win. It's just the way things are going now.

Really?

Can you give me more examples of this belief that its just the way things are going now?

What does that mean exactly?

[Libertine]

Really?

Can you give me more examples of this belief that its just the way things are going now?

What does that mean exactly?

Well, the far right candidate won in Austria (except he didn't).

And Wilders won the Dutch election (except he didn't).

And Le Pen will come top of the French poll (except she didn't).

And Merkel will lose the German election with the far right in the ascendancy (except she's leading in the polls and they're plummeting).

[Libertine]

[killer-heels]

Well, the far right candidate won in Austria (except he didn't).

And Wilders won the Dutch election (except he didn't).

And Le Pen will come top of the French poll (except she didn't).

And Merkel will lose the German election with the far right in the ascendancy (except she's leading in the polls and they're plummeting).

The bloody greens won as much as Wilders' party despite the BBC spending a week trashing the Netherlands. AfD won't come anywhere close to winning the election in Germany, despite again them getting ridiculous amounts of media.

Oh and far right candidates? In Europe? When has this ever happened, its a new thing I tell you......

[Johnny B. Goode]

There's an even newer poll from today that puts Macron at 62%. 62% of Melenchon voters will back Macron in the secound round, 29 will abstain and 9 will vote for Le Pen. Macron also leads with Fillon voters (40 something to 33) and Hamon (largest margin).

It is looking good. I reckon only a major scandal could take this away from Macron *knock on wood*

[Caligula?]

You were convinced that Geert Wilders would win the Dutch election.

I wasn't convinced, just slightly apprehensive. But as I said at the time and before in this thread, it mattered not because he would have never formed a coalition government to rule. So whether he was going to win or not was always irrelevant.

After the more than a year and a half of closely following the US election, scrutinizing every twist and turn, analyzing every poll and watching the news for hours a day and being convinced that Hillary would eventually pull it off, excuse me for being a little bit wary now.

[GreatEx]

Reports that the Melenchon camp will hold a "consultation" on whether to give his supporters a clear voting indication for the second round. It would be beyond shameful if a supposed leftist didn't show his support to the only alternative to a neo-fascist presidency.

Economically, Le Pen borrows plenty from the left, and Melenchon shares her anti-EU stance, so it's not that surprising.

As FN leaders will tell you, "we're national-socia... I mean, socialist-nationalists".

[The North Bank]

There's an even newer poll from today that puts Macron at 62%. 62% of Melenchon voters will back Macron in the secound round, 29 will abstain and 9 will vote for Le Pen. Macron also leads with Fillon voters (40 something to 33) and Hamon (largest margin).

It is looking good. I reckon only a major scandal could take this away from Macron *knock on wood*

Or a major terrorist arrack .
Hopefully nothing happens and Macron wins. He's been my favourite from the start anyway. Liberal and pro EU.

[Garrus]

Sometimes I just cannot understand these hard left type candidates/parties. Is ideological purity really so much more important than working with someone who is more moderate?

It's the same with the "Bernie or bust" characters. Did they really dislike Clinton so much they were happy to facilitate the presidency of a man who will set their causes back by decades?! It's mind boggling.

I say this as someone who leans left but what is the point of ideological purity when you are never going to be in a position to make any sort of impact?

[GreatEx]

There's no room for intransigent ideology in a decent democracy. By definition, such an approach completely ignores the needs/desires of anyone who doesn't support them, which defeats the purpose of representative government. I'd like to think I would never support an ideological purist even if their ideology conformed exactly to my own.

[Redcap]

There's an even newer poll from today that puts Macron at 62%. 62% of Melenchon voters will back Macron in the secound round, 29 will abstain and 9 will vote for Le Pen. Macron also leads with Fillon voters (40 something to 33) and Hamon (largest margin).

It is looking good. I reckon only a major scandal could take this away from Macron *knock on wood*

Yeah you'd think so.

I think there were similar discussions about Bernie voters turning out for Hillary in the US election. I don't know whether they finally did in the end. It'll be a matter of turning the voters out again, won't it?

[Jiminy Cricket]

He's refusing to endorse a centrist, moderate liberal. And refusing to condemn a fascist.

It's a despicable stance to take.

I imagine Corbyn doing the same in a similar situation.

What the hell is wrong with so-called leaders on the left these days?

[TepidT2O]

Refusing to condemn an actual facist ...

Hey that's the far left for you..  anyone who isn't them is a facist, so nothing matters to them

[12C]

BBC Breakfast giving Oxygen to the French National Front, who tells us that Le Pen is not fascist or racist, she is a patriot, and Macron is not bothered about France at all. And the BBC reporter doesn't say a word.
And now I await Dan Walker showing us the front pages of the Express and Mail telling us 'here is the news making the headlines'
In other news, Labour Party spokesman 'applies gaffer tape to policy' according to BBC.
Lefties in the BBC eh!

[TepidT2O]

They are in the last two of the French election.  Are they supposed to ignore them?
Extraordinary comment.

[GreatEx]

Let her have her moment in the sun, she's going to be smashed anyway and this way the right-wing won't be able to moan about how the lie-beral FAKE NEWS media gagged them.

[Libertine]

So the next time you hear the tired cliche "well, you can't trust the polls, aren't they always wrong these days"....

[child-in-time]

Le Pen's "economic patriotism" is in fact another way of saying left-wing economics, I think she will be able to draw more than a few of Melenchon's supporters based on that.

[Alan_X]

BBC Breakfast giving Oxygen to the French National Front, who tells us that Le Pen is not fascist or racist, she is a patriot, and Macron is not bothered about France at all. And the BBC reporter doesn't say a word.
And now I await Dan Walker showing us the front pages of the Express and Mail telling us 'here is the news making the headlines'
In other news, Labour Party spokesman 'applies gaffer tape to policy' according to BBC.
Lefties in the BBC eh!

Le Pen is one of the last two in the French election and there's small chance that she might be the next President. Why wouldn't they report it?. Le Pen is a despicable piece of shit in my opinion but democracy and the BBC's requirement for impartial and balanced reporting means they have to cover stuff I don't like. There will be people on the right asking why a terrorist supporter like Corbyn is allowed on the BBC.

And is the gaffer tape comment relating to this?

Labour has said it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons after Jeremy Corbyn said "all aspects" of defence would be reviewed if he won power.

The case for renewing Trident was still being discussed, the Labour leader told the BBC, prompting Tory criticism.

But a Labour spokesman said it remained official policy to keep the deterrent.

In the interview, Mr Corbyn said he wanted no more air strikes in Syria but did not rule out a drone strike to kill the leader of so-called Islamic State.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39683989

Applying gaffer tape is a fairly mild analogy to the Party having to deal with yet another freestyle fuck up from Corbyn.

[redmark]

BBC Breakfast giving Oxygen to the French National Front, who tells us that Le Pen is not fascist or racist, she is a patriot, and Macron is not bothered about France at all. And the BBC reporter doesn't say a word.

Do you know what a reporter does?

[Libertine]

Where to plan your next holiday.....




Yellow - Macron, Red - Hamon, Blue - Fillon, Grey - Le Pen.

[Garrus]

Does anyone have the results of how the vote went among expats and in the overseas territories?

[Libertine]

Does anyone have the results of how the vote went among expats and in the overseas territories?

Territory results are here: http://elections.interieur.gouv.fr/presidentielle-2017/index.html

Not sure it includes ex-pats in other countries.

[killer-heels]

Any details about demographics yet?

[Libertine]

Coming soon to an election near you.....

[GreatEx]

Where to plan your next holiday.....




Yellow - Macron, Red - Hamon, Blue - Fillon, Grey - Le Pen.

Your legend is incorrect; Seine-Saint-Denis, Dordogne and Ariege (the red ones) were all won by Melenchon, not Hamon.

As expected, Paris smashed the living snot out of Le Pen - she got less than 5% of the vote there. So stick with the obvious choice, Visit Paris.

[Garrus]

Territory results are here: http://elections.interieur.gouv.fr/presidentielle-2017/index.html

Not sure it includes ex-pats in other countries.

Thanks! Some interesting numbers there.

[Crosby Nick]

Proper East/West split there it seems. Any rationale behind that?

[Libertine]

Proper East/West split there it seems. Any rationale behind that?

Not sure, but someone pointed out the similarities to the Plantagenet Kingdom???

https://twitter.com/Cyrotonus/status/856274403033829379

[BarryCrocker]

Proper East/West split there it seems. Any rationale behind that?

Closer to Russia or literally on the far right. 

[Ray K]

Not sure, but someone pointed out the similarities to the Plantagenet Kingdom???

https://twitter.com/Cyrotonus/status/856274403033829379

Bloody Brexiteers holding out in Calais and in the pale.

[Crosby Nick]

Not sure, but someone pointed out the similarities to the Plantagenet Kingdom???

https://twitter.com/Cyrotonus/status/856274403033829379

Who did Eleanor of Aquitaine vote for?

[Garrus]

As per the Ifop Poll:

Macron inherits
43% of Fillon's voters
70% of Hamon's voters
50% of Mélenchon's voters

Le Pen inherits
31% of Fillon's voters
3% of Hamon's voters
12% of Mélenchon's voters

[kennedy81]

Thank fuck Macron got through. Hope he smashes that lunatic Le Pen in the next round.

She'll be back though. These nutters need to be exposed and constantly shown for what they are. Divisive and destructive, with no constructive or meaningful policies beyond jabbing the finger of blame at everyone else.

[Farman]

Looks like the French need a bit more of that Atlantic sea air.

[Johnny B. Goode]

As counting comes to a close, it seems like Le Pen will be at around 21.4% which is some poor showing from her. Most recent polls would have her at 22% or above, and she was hitting mid-20s for most of the year.

If voting was mandatory I'm absolutely sure she'd get a proper thrashing. If you ever wanted an argument for mandatory voting then this is it. Complacency means she won't lose as badly as she deserves to, which in turn will give her a sense of victory and help to propel her forward again.

An 80-20% split like in 2002 though would humiliate her and send her and her supports back under their rock.

EDIT: counting not voting 

[Libertine]

As voting comes to a close, it seems like Le Pen will be at around 21.4% which is some poor showing from her. Most recent polls would have her at 22% or above, and she was hitting mid-20s for most of the year.

Yeah, she was in excess of 25% for much of this year - clearly in the lead in most polls. Must have had a pretty poor campaign to fade so badly, or perhaps voters just come to their senses when the real decision has to be made.



Unfortunately, I think she'll do much better in the run-off than her father did, but would be good if she didn't get past 35%.