Topic: Adam Lallana

[Redcap]

So much emphasis on goals and assists to judge a player who is visibly involved in a lot of how the team operates - if he's making space, holding the ball to free up team mates to do the rest, defend from the front and run himself to the ground to hound the ball off the opponent then there shouldn't be any question on his importance to the way Klopp wants the team to work. Should he take more shots and make more passes into the final three just to satisfy the so-called KPIs of the stato experts or stick to what he does best as instructed by the manager? While he can certainly learn to add those to his arsenal of abilities he is performing as expected of him by the manager and has been a part of the best performances under Klopp,

Steven Gerrard was a freak of nature - don't judge every player by his standards as Cou, Firmino and Can et al would be failures under those criteria.

Reminds me of the distribution argument about goalkeepers; so much is placed on how he is able to distribute the ball that shot stopping and ball keeping becomes secondary that it's ridiculous.

Sure. Xabi never scored or assisted too many times in a season either, but the way he played enabled us to play better as a team. The outcome of this though is a combination of more goals scored and/or less goals conceded. It may not be a direct relationship, but the relationship is there.

Now, what we know is historically teams need to score a certain number of goals in a season in order for success in the league. Adam Lallana plays in one of the four main goalscoring positions. If he doesn't score many, or make the final pass before a goal, he needs to be playing in such a way that's enabling the team to score more goals and/or concede less goals. You can say this about every other position and every other position in the team.

Sturridge scores goals.

Firmino and Coutinho score and assist when they're on the ball, and also press effectively when they're off it to give us more opportunities to score more/concede less.

Lovren, Kolo and Mignolet (no snarky comments now) prevent goals from being conceded.

And so on and so forth.

This isn't to say I think Lallana is no good, or that he doesn't contribute enough. But I think it's useful to be able to operationalize a player's function in the team - to describe it in such a way that it's easy for everyone to understand. That way Lallana's value can be more broadly understood, without always referring to his relatively small goal+assist contribution.

[Floydy]

made up we signed him, and he will get better, a bit underrated me thinks, he has a lovely balance and shift from left to right effortlessly.
Top player this lad, and he will just keep getting better and better.
His effort and desire is always there, never seen him shirk responsibility in a red shirt, yes he has had poor games but he is always out there looking to get on the ball.

Made up he is ours, watch this space with Adam, he will be here for a few more years to come.

[Billy The Kid]

He reminds me of Raul Meireles

He's got excellent technical ability but he's a massive fanny when it comes to 50/50 tackles

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

He reminds me of Raul Meireles

He's got excellent technical ability but he's a massive fanny when it comes to 50/50 tackles

I think he's a better player overall.

Have been frustrated at his sometimes lacklustre finishing but I like him, he's tricky and works hard.

He's not the only one of our team who shits out of the odd 50/50, so does Firmino but the key is both of them are excellent at winning possession back regardless of their unwillingness to go for those 50/50s, so on balance I'm not sure its an issue.

[rafathegaffa83]

Can't wait until Ibe takes his spot now Klopp is our manager.

Haha. I remember those times, when loads thought he would be one of the first out-the-door. His work ethic and pressing ability is core to his role in the team. He's probably closer to the role that he had at Southampton, than what Rodgers used him for, which is as a pressing attacking midfielder with great technical footwork, rather than a pure creative outlet.

Sure. Xabi never scored or assisted too many times in a season either, but the way he played enabled us to play better as a team. The outcome of this though is a combination of more goals scored and/or less goals conceded. It may not be a direct relationship, but the relationship is there.

This. When some wanted Alonso to be sold, my argument was always that he was crucial to the playing style, regardless of his statistical output. Now, Lallana's status isn't as vital as Alonso's was, but it's still important

[Historical Fool]

Haha. I remember those times, when loads thought he would be one of the first out-the-door. His work ethic and pressing ability is core to his role in the team. He's probably closer to the role that he had at Southampton, than what Rodgers used him for, which is as a pressing attacking midfielder with great technical footwork, rather than a pure creative outlet.

This. When some wanted Alonso to be sold, my argument was always that he was crucial to the playing style, regardless of his statistical output. Now, Lallana's status isn't as vital as Alonso's was, but it's still important

I don't think he'll reprise that here. He had basically a free role at Southampton, everything went through him. He won't get that kind of remit here.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I don't think he'll reprise that here. He had basically a free role at Southampton, everything went through him. He won't get that kind of remit here.

Don't think Pochettino gives anyone a free role, his teams require too much tactical discipline. 

[Redcap]

Goal or assist every 192 minutes since the turn of the year, which actually isn't too bad. Extrapolate those numbers over the course of a full season (90 minutes per game, slightly unlikely, I know) and you have a 16 goals/16 assists player in all competitions.

So I think even in terms of goals and assists, he's not too far from where we want our 4th contributor to goal scoring to be.

[mickeydocs]

Goals are coming from all over the team now and we are starting to win games comfortably. We couldn't buy a goal in August/September. Lallana is a key member of the team and squad. He is the ultimate team player.

[Alf Garnett!]

Lallana,like everyone has improved under Klopp(Bogdan aside).

When anyone asks about any player & whether they are good enough to take us to the next level,i usually ask..what title winning team in the last 20 years or so would he get into?

A sorta benchmark,Leicester have completely fucked me over on that now tho!

[Kashinoda]

Goals are coming from all over the team now and we are starting to win games comfortably. We couldn't buy a goal in August/September. Lallana is a key member of the team and squad. He is the ultimate team player.

We're 5 goals away from 100 goals this season (includes 2 own goals), crazy

[Chakan]

We're 4 goals away from 100 goals this season (includes 2 own goals), crazy

I remember when our GD was -7

[Yorkykopite]

Doesn't divide opinion with me reminds me of Quasi;

 silky touches , clever player and very unselfish player and often underrated by the fans.

Also tends to be at the right place at the right time to score the occasional vital goal.

Agree Geoff. A magnificent footballer, in the true Liverpool tradition of silk and steel.

[Felch Aid]

Just as I'm ready to rant at him or throw something at the tv he pops up with a goal or something positive.

Still think he lacks any consistency but I'll take his positives for the time being.

[ghandi13]

I must admit like the beginning of this thread I was slating Lallana at the start before Jurgen came on board. What a transformation in the lad. Jurgen says he's his leader  from the front, the first to press and set the tone. Starting to add a few more goals but should still be finishing better. We need more goals from midfield, hopefully he can provide.  I see the shit papers linking him to Spurs because of Poch, but I can't see Jurgen even thinking of letting him go myself.... not a chance.

[modokay]

Sure. Xabi never scored or assisted too many times in a season either, but the way he played enabled us to play better as a team. The outcome of this though is a combination of more goals scored and/or less goals conceded. It may not be a direct relationship, but the relationship is there.

Now, what we know is historically teams need to score a certain number of goals in a season in order for success in the league. Adam Lallana plays in one of the four main goalscoring positions. If he doesn't score many, or make the final pass before a goal, he needs to be playing in such a way that's enabling the team to score more goals and/or concede less goals. You can say this about every other position and every other position in the team.

Sturridge scores goals.

Firmino and Coutinho score and assist when they're on the ball, and also press effectively when they're off it to give us more opportunities to score more/concede less.

Lovren, Kolo and Mignolet (no snarky comments now) prevent goals from being conceded.

And so on and so forth.

This isn't to say I think Lallana is no good, or that he doesn't contribute enough. But I think it's useful to be able to operationalize a player's function in the team - to describe it in such a way that it's easy for everyone to understand. That way Lallana's value can be more broadly understood, without always referring to his relatively small goal+assist contribution.

Absolutely spot on.

[JackWard33]

This isn't to say I think Lallana is no good, or that he doesn't contribute enough. But I think it's useful to be able to operationalize a player's function in the team - to describe it in such a way that it's easy for everyone to understand. That way Lallana's value can be more broadly understood, without always referring to his relatively small goal+assist contribution.

Pretty clear what Lallana's functions are
1) He leads the high press (he's the best at it in the squad - Firmino is good too but in a different way - Lallana is brilliant at relentlessly closing the space in front of him)
2) He retains the ball - especially in the final third which are other AMs suck at 
3) He transitions us from midfield to attack (again he's the best at this in the squad)

Klopp has picked him for every significant game when he's been fit because he does stuff which no one else in the squad can replicate

[markedasred]

  Can't help feeling with the newness and positivity of Klopp still strong in the air, we will not have to fight to keep good players as much as recent windows.

[ThePeetmix]

Heard Brasil talking to Didi Hamann on talkshite saying that Spurs are targeting him this summer. I Like him, but several reds I drink with say they find him frustrating still. Personally I wouldn't sell Horse Manure to spurs, let alone players, but he does have a good relationship with Pocket Tina already.

It's sourced from the shit rag. Don't pay attention to it.

[markedasred]

It's sourced from the shit rag. Don't pay attention to it.

My post edited on the basis of yours.

[Angelius]

I think there could potentially still be a question mark about his consistency to deliver the level of performances required through the season but I think it would be ridiculous to deny that he's been on an upward trend and his consistency has improved as well.

I think he's an archetypal Klopp player, to be honest. It's also telling to me that some of the best performances under Klopp have come when he's in the team. The games against Manchester City, Chelsea, etc. The slight under-appreciation of what he brings to the team reminds me of some of the comments that have been directed to Firmino this season as well. They've been along the lines of "he loses the ball a fair bit, doesn't look stylish in his play, but seems to be always involved in those goal scoring things".

I think Lallana probably is similar where people think, "he doesn't score too many goals or assists or anything but seems to be always involved or playing when the team is playing well". At least I hope so. I think his pressing from the front has been instrumental in some of the transition attacks we've seen and scored from at the latter end of the season. However, I do think this is a team-wide thing because Lallana's qualities have shone through under Klopp because the pressing is coordinated and Lallana is not running around like a headless chicken but is supported in the press by his teammates. But he is one of the best in our team in doing that right now.

From the article, where Klopp refers to him as the "Hunter" hits the nail on the head. He has other qualities too of course but I think pressing has been hugely significant in creating attacking and pressing transitions and I would bet, injuries nonwithstanding, he'll be one the first names on the team sheet for the game in Basel.

[SerbianScouser]

I think pressing has been hugely significant in creating attacking and pressing transitions

Thing is , with our resources and prestige we are in a position in the summer to find somebody who can match Lallana`s qualities in terms of pressing and ball retention in the final third but at the same time be on the higher level where Firmino, Coutinho and Sturridge are in terms of goal threat and the fear they strike into opposition defences.

Obviously that kind of player would cost a lot of money and all that so it`s a question if we could find but even if we don`t we`ll be fine going into next season with Lallana as a part of our front 4.

[Homo rubrum]

Thing is , with our resources and prestige we are in a position in the summer to find somebody who can match Lallana`s qualities in terms of pressing and ball retention in the final third but at the same time be on the higher level where Firmino, Coutinho and Sturridge are in terms of goal threat and the fear they strike into opposition defences.

Obviously that kind of player would cost a lot of money and all that so it`s a question if we could find but even if we don`t we`ll be fine going into next season with Lallana as a part of our front 4.

Genuine question from someone who watches very little extra-LFC football- really?  Are there many of those players? To my mind, there are exceptionally few players better than Lallana in terms of final third ball retention, and not too many in terms of pressing.  So to get somebody who does both of those things as well as him, and contributes lots of the goals… David Silva who presses?  Suarez who doesn't do all the mad stuff?  Mario Goetze maybe, from what I hear? 

I think one of the reasons Lallana isn't better at the goals is the priority he puts on ball retention.  And, extrapolating from his continued selection and special praise from the manager, I think maybe that is a thing Klopp appreciates more than many of us.   

[thelinnen]

I wrote him off around Christmas after defending him since he signed. Typical 

[BigAl24]

I said this about Lallana in the Can thread. I fucking love him, been a big fan since he came in and liked him when he played for Southampton. The first thing that struck me about him was how at ease he is using his 'weaker' left foot. Not a lot of footballers can use their weaker foot, and of those that can, the majority can only swing a decent cross or a shot out of it. Just look at the way this lad controls it, dribbles with and takes touches with both of his feet. If any of you play football, try and do a Cruyff turn with your weaker foot. I probably like this more than most as I too am adept with either foot (I must note I only play 6 a side now) but as a youngster playing for junior teams I always got stuck out on the left and just learned to use my left foot for a few years. Really bothers me that more footballers can not do it.

Anyway, I genuinely think this lad, along with Emre, is going to be the first name on Klopp's team sheet. I read a few posts when Klopp came in and since saying he doesn't suit Klopp's style. Absolute nonsense! He is fucking perfect for it. His work ethic also seems to rub off on others. There was a moment in the game the other night when Lallana was pressing from the front as he does, and his nearest team mate was Sturridge who needed to press too to prevent Lallana's press being pointless. Sturridge didn't and Adam had a word with him, he was gesticulating for him to press and he never did. Then afterwards you could see he was again telling him what he wanted.

That's another quality that will go unnoticed by many, the lad is a leader. He was Southampton's captain. If we can only play two out of him, Firmino and Coutinho then I am afraid it is one of the samba boys who has to miss out. He has 7 goals and 8 assists this season, too, so he isn't that far behind those two in numbers. And his pressing is just invaluable. The sort of player you don't really know what you'd miss until he isn't there.

100% this.

[BigAl24]

Can someone tell me how many attacking midfielders there are in the league who have posted 10 goals and 10 assists this season? That seems to be the benchmark that we want so please enlighten me as to how many midfielders have actually posted those kind of numbers this season?

Invaluable player.

[harryc]

Can someone tell me how many attacking midfielders there are in the league who have posted 10 goals and 10 assists this season? That seems to be the benchmark that we want so please enlighten me as to how many midfielders have actually posted those kind of numbers this season?

Invaluable player.

Not many I would imagine, Mahrez, Alli, Sigurdsson and of course our own Bobby for those who consider him as a midfielder!

[plura]

Can someone tell me how many attacking midfielders there are in the league who have posted 10 goals and 10 assists this season? That seems to be the benchmark that we want so please enlighten me as to how many midfielders have actually posted those kind of numbers this season?

Invaluable player.

Mahrez (17, 10), Alli (10, 9), Eriksen (6, 15), Ozil (6, 18), Payet (maybe more of a forward 9, 12) Barkley ( 8, 8 ), Lallana (4, 6) for example. Of course not exactly the same matches and minutes played.

But I'm also a big Lallana fan, and I think he'll continuously improve his stats under Klopp.

[modokay]

Can someone tell me how many attacking midfielders there are in the league who have posted 10 goals and 10 assists this season? That seems to be the benchmark that we want so please enlighten me as to how many midfielders have actually posted those kind of numbers this season?

Invaluable player.

Who required that benchmark?
Lallana currently has 4 goals and 6 assists in the league.

Anyway those somewhat close to the 10/10 requirement:

------------------------goals----assists
Mesut Özil--------------6-------18
Christian Eriksen-------6-------13
Dimitri Payet-----------9-------12   
Dusan Tadic------------7-------12   
Riyad Mahrez----------17-------11   
Dele Alli ---------------10-------9
Kevin De Bruyne -------7-------9
Ross Barkley------------8-------8
Roberto Firmino--------10------7

[Roger Federer]

Love watching him play, his first touch is sublime, and his balance extraordinary.

I felt that he didn't influence games consistently under Rodgers - he came up with moments of brilliance but hardly ever dominated a game for the full 90 minutes - but lately under Klopp he's put in some very impressive performances. Some say that he dithers on the ball too much, and it can happen, but most of the time he finds a better solution and no one else in the squad has his abilty to keep the ball under control high up the pitch. His energy and pressing is very good too.  He could still become more consistent, improve his final ball and finishing a bit more to take another step, but I really like him and think he's a pretty complete player who makes those around him better.

[Redcap]

Pretty clear what Lallana's functions are
1) He leads the high press (he's the best at it in the squad - Firmino is good too but in a different way - Lallana is brilliant at relentlessly closing the space in front of him)
2) He retains the ball - especially in the final third which are other AMs suck at 
3) He transitions us from midfield to attack (again he's the best at this in the squad)

Klopp has picked him for every significant game when he's been fit because he does stuff which no one else in the squad can replicate

That's a really unique set of qualities you've described though. I actually (admittedly probably due to my own ignorance) don't know another player in world football (let alone an attacking midfielder) whose main qualities are pressing, ball retention and transitions. If you describe his qualities in that way, I would agree with you, but are those a unique set of skills that other players can't replicate, while also scoring and/or assisting more?

I'm partly playing the devil's advocate here but I really do want to draw this out a bit more. Pressing is something many of our players do. It's something that many players in many teams do. Similar for retaining the ball. Similar for transitions. Is it the combination of the three that makes him unique?

I feel like the way he's being described here almost make him sound like a latter day Lucas (back when he was still an up and coming lad), where much of the match viewing public can't quite pinpoint his value. And that may well be the case, I freely admit. He would be a difficult player to pigeon-hole. Look at his stats:

Per game he has:

1.4 shots
1.9 key passes
1.1 dribbles (which I find amazing, because he's obviously a very good dribbler)
1.9 tackles
1.1 interceptions
1.2 clearances

Looking at this stats, his attacking stats look decidedly average, but defensively he's a beast for an attacking midfielder. And yet, he looks so good on the ball that you would think that he would score and assist and make more key passes? Is his output in goals and assists even something we want to see him improve on? Or are we happy for him to do his thing, and in doing so allow others to score and assist? Would we trade him for an attacking midfielder that scored/assisted a total of another 5-6 times a season, but who only pressed as much as say, Firmino?

All genuine questions.

[Yorkykopite]

I said this about Lallana in the Can thread. I fucking love him, been a big fan since he came in and liked him when he played for Southampton. The first thing that struck me about him was how at ease he is using his 'weaker' left foot. Not a lot of footballers can use their weaker foot, and of those that can, the majority can only swing a decent cross or a shot out of it. Just look at the way this lad controls it, dribbles with and takes touches with both of his feet. If any of you play football, try and do a Cruyff turn with your weaker foot. I probably like this more than most as I too am adept with either foot (I must note I only play 6 a side now) but as a youngster playing for junior teams I always got stuck out on the left and just learned to use my left foot for a few years. Really bothers me that more footballers can not do it.

Anyway, I genuinely think this lad, along with Emre, is going to be the first name on Klopp's team sheet. I read a few posts when Klopp came in and since saying he doesn't suit Klopp's style. Absolute nonsense! He is fucking perfect for it. His work ethic also seems to rub off on others. There was a moment in the game the other night when Lallana was pressing from the front as he does, and his nearest team mate was Sturridge who needed to press too to prevent Lallana's press being pointless. Sturridge didn't and Adam had a word with him, he was gesticulating for him to press and he never did. Then afterwards you could see he was again telling him what he wanted.

That's another quality that will go unnoticed by many, the lad is a leader. He was Southampton's captain. If we can only play two out of him, Firmino and Coutinho then I am afraid it is one of the samba boys who has to miss out. He has 7 goals and 8 assists this season, too, so he isn't that far behind those two in numbers. And his pressing is just invaluable. The sort of player you don't really know what you'd miss until he isn't there.

Very well put and very well observed. It isn't just the ability to use his 'wrong' foot to execute a Cruyff turn. It's his ability to turn the 'wrong' way in the process. Most players cannot begin to do that. The fella is so at ease with the ball, in whatever direction and at whatever height it comes. Only Jari Litmanen - in his brief to stay with us - has shown such total command of the ball in recent times.

I'd continue to play all three - Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino. And I love the fact that Klopp, an advocate of 'heavy metal football', invests such faith in these three magicians behind the front man. 

[freddwarf]

He has improved under Klopp but he is a far better player when we put out an attacking line up. Earlier on this season Klopp was a little bit to careful in putting out an out and out attacking team.

Look at the front 6 in the semi V Villereal, Can, Milner,Coutinho,Lallana,Firmino,Sturridge...an out and out attacking line up.

It's exactly this type of game plan that Lallana will thrive in, pacy, quick attacks..off the cuff stuff. Lallana will pop up with little gems that can create and confuse the enemy. Quality player if used in a fast paced forward looking line up.

Spur of the moment, off the cuff player, not to disciplined but creative, and we need that type of player if we are going to go the right way about getting top 4 year in year out. Attack and mean it.

[Red-Soldier]

He has improved under Klopp but he is a far better player when we put out an attacking line up. Earlier on this season Klopp was a little bit to careful in putting out an out and out attacking team.

Look at the front 6 in the semi V Villereal, Can, Milner,Coutinho,Lallana,Firmino,Sturridge...an out and out attacking line up.

It's exactly this type of game plan that Lallana will thrive in, pacy, quick attacks..off the cuff stuff. Lallana will pop up with little gems that can create and confuse the enemy. Quality player if used in a fast paced forward looking line up.

Spur of the moment, off the cuff player, not to disciplined but creative, and we need that type of player if we are going to go the right way about getting top 4 year in year out. Attack and mean it.

Disagree.

When it comes to pressing and defending from the front, he's one of our most disciplined players.  He's very organised

[SlowRap]

He's a leader on the pitch too, shouting instructions & encouragement to players around him

[JackWard33]

That's a really unique set of qualities you've described though. I actually (admittedly probably due to my own ignorance) don't know another player in world football (let alone an attacking midfielder) whose main qualities are pressing, ball retention and transitions. If you describe his qualities in that way, I would agree with you, but are those a unique set of skills that other players can't replicate, while also scoring and/or assisting more?

I'm partly playing the devil's advocate here but I really do want to draw this out a bit more. Pressing is something many of our players do. It's something that many players in many teams do. Similar for retaining the ball. Similar for transitions. Is it the combination of the three that makes him unique?

I feel like the way he's being described here almost make him sound like a latter day Lucas (back when he was still an up and coming lad), where much of the match viewing public can't quite pinpoint his value. And that may well be the case, I freely admit. He would be a difficult player to pigeon-hole. Look at his stats:

Per game he has:

1.4 shots
1.9 key passes
1.1 dribbles (which I find amazing, because he's obviously a very good dribbler)
1.9 tackles
1.1 interceptions
1.2 clearances

Looking at this stats, his attacking stats look decidedly average, but defensively he's a beast for an attacking midfielder. And yet, he looks so good on the ball that you would think that he would score and assist and make more key passes? Is his output in goals and assists even something we want to see him improve on? Or are we happy for him to do his thing, and in doing so allow others to score and assist? Would we trade him for an attacking midfielder that scored/assisted a total of another 5-6 times a season, but who only pressed as much as say, Firmino?

All genuine questions.

The 'famous' player he's most obviously similar is Iniesta (whose a better off the ball and worse on the ball player than general perception) - has a very similar numbers profile does a similar job for the team; although Adam has better key pass / shots numbers these days.
Those headline stats don't measure stuff like pressing / closing down space etc - these stats are coming/being developed (exciting if you're a nerd) so it's harder to measure but the 'eye test' tells you pretty quickly how good he is at it.
There aren't that many people that can affect the game off the ball while still producing something decent if not world beating in the final third - that combination actually makes him pretty 'prized' in the modern game

[freddwarf]

Disagree.

When it comes to pressing and defending from the front, he's one of our most disciplined players.  He's very organised

Meant largely in his attacking approach. Better if he isn't tied down to much, let him move across just behind the front two. Difficult to pick up, read his game when he moves freely. Yes his defensive duties have improved. Does get eased out of it a few times but he does put the work in.

[bigbear]

Why would he want to leave now.

It's clear the manager likes him and he likes Klopp, he leads the press and is doing better with end product in recent months. Biggest thing is that his work rate has just been upped hugely and he has stayed fit which helps.

I'd be very surprised if he left or wanted to leave especially as he will feel we are on the edge of success.

[Chakan]

If he does leave I hope we replace him with Gotze then.

[freddwarf]

Press speculation that Pochettino wants him. On the face of it he seems like an ideal fit for Spurs but now that he has showed some real form and can create from very little why would we give Pochettino the reward.

We are not a selling club. Torres, Suarez and Sterling wanted to go. Not for sale I hope.