Topic: FSG (*)

[Chalky Boots]

Without wanting to be seen as a "FSG cheerleader", I'm struggling to think of any examples of us going head to head with the top tier of European football and winning in the transfer market before they arrived either. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but there wasn't a transfer tug of war for either Torres or Mascherano, two of the more high profile signings of the past couple of decades. We have to accept that despite our illustrious history and fantastic fans, there are equally if not more attractive propositions for players out there.

There was but given how long ago it is now it's forgivable when people forget. Torres was wanted by us, Inter Milan, Chelsea and I think United. I'm not sure our offer was even the biggest but Rafa and the spaniards  gave us the big sell.
I'm not actually sure with Mascherano, don't think there was any serious interest when we initially took him on loan. There was serious competition with the likes of Kewell (mancs wanted him), Alonso (real madrid).

I supposed football has changed over the last 10 years though. Previously there was really only United and Chelsea that'd concern us financially in this league, now there is City and Spurs and Arsenal. There also doesn't seem to be quite such a diverse talent pool now. Whether that is to do with clubs just wising up with regards to recruitment I'm unsure but there's definitely more fighting going on for the same players these days.

I don't think attracting players is an issue if/when we get back into the Champions League. We have the facilities, and the coaching set up and the City is appealing (although not to everyone), FSG just need to open the wallets when it comes to wages on top players. We do that then you'll find a lot more willing to come here.

[jambutty]

Winning all our remaining matches, qualifying for CL, bringing in some new players dying to get their mugs on tv is not going to win us the league.

Which is why the whinging sods will never be happy.

We could win the league and give out free tickets to all and they'd want free fucking pies at HT.

[penga]

I don't think anyone's even bothered about Dahoud. I know I'm not. He'd have been a nice project to play back-up to Lallana/Wijnaldum but it's the sly briefings that do people's heads in more than missing out on players.

The media's job and purpose is to write stories and headlines to get viewership. How do you know that the media didn't ask the club for a point of view or information amid reports Dahoud was going to BVB first? Some people/fans may need/want explanations as to why a target we were going for last summer window didn't materialise. They could've reported nothing but the same people or other people will still be complaining about the deal happening for BVB and not us and asking questions as to why.

I'm not arsed about Dahoud either and it's pretty obvious our interest logically could've cooled which you touched on anyway:
- Formation was 4-2-3-1 last season but we stumbled on 4-3-3 working out better for us in pre-season after trying Hendo the DM or no. 6.
- Dahoud provides nowhere near the same defensive ability, physicality and engine as Henderson required to play that role in England especially with the exposed defenders and high line.
- Gini bought for the same type of money we were going for Dahoud with last summer has developed quite well and provides more goal threat and strength in midfield.
- Lallana obviously is better than Dahoud at the moment in almost all departments except maybe passing/long balls.

So he would be an understudy most likely and competing with Can for minutes. Something he might not want to do. Someone we are not desperate for anymore. Nothing wrong with media reporting it. Not really a big deal or a reason to kick up a stink about FSG...

[Billy Elliot]

Winning all our remaining matches, qualifying for CL, bringing in some new players dying to get their mugs on tv is not going to win us the league.

Which is why the whinging sods will never be happy.

We could win the league and give out free tickets to all and they'd want free fucking pies at HT.

If we didn't do any of those things but the Club was relevant to the City of Liverpool and all the people who live there, I'd be happy.

[reddebs]

Seriously I couldn't care less if we break even on transfers again this summer if we finish next season as champions.   

If the players in improve the regular starting 11, giving us stronger rotation options and we give more minutes to our academy prospects in the process then happy fucking days!!

[DangerScouse]

The dismissal from some of the FSG "apologists" towards any valid criticism of the owners is beyond nauseating. Seemingly we all have agendas, any concerns or questioning of them are deemed to be irrational, without substance or nonsensical.

 I do have an agenda, I want Liverpool Football Club to be challenging at the highest level and for our owners to match that ambition of the majority of fans and our manager. They may have lowered some of your expectations, but for a lot of us, these high standards remain.

You can continue to shout down and disparage the likes of me but I'll keep going and venting my frustrations until such a time as they provide the necessary resources to get is back to challenging for the top honours.

[CraigDS]

See, Dangerscouse, that's almost a 'Im a better fan than you' type of post. You think you want better for Liverpool than someone else, that you care more for those things to be achieved.

The problem is that's not the case. At all. I imagine almost all of us on here care just the same and ultimately want the same for the club.

However some of us simply differ in our view on how we are able to achieve those things. That doesn't mean anyone is a better fan than anyone else, which is certainly how your post is coming across, but just that we have a different opinion.

[heylookitsjacob]

Venting frustrations is one thing. Creating the same repetitive discussion about net spend or whatever the hot topic is this month is something entirely different.

[Ipcress]

The dismissal from some of the FSG "apologists" towards any valid criticism of the owners is beyond nauseating. Seemingly we all have agendas, any concerns or questioning of them are deemed to be irrational, without substance or nonsensical.

 I do have an agenda, I want Liverpool Football Club to be challenging at the highest level and for our owners to match that ambition of the majority of fans and our manager. They may have lowered some of your expectations, but for a lot of us, these high standards remain.

You can continue to shout down and disparage the likes of me but I'll keep going and venting my frustrations until such a time as they provide the necessary resources to get is back to challenging for the top honours.

Where do FSG's and the Managers ambitions differ? Please direct quotes, in context.

Also, pray tell me as you seem to have intimate knowledge of what the majority of the fans (how many is that, worldwide?)want, what method have they all agreed on to achieve these ambitions, and what are they prepared to do to bring it about?

[jambutty]

The dismissal from some of the FSG "apologists" towards any valid criticism of the owners is beyond nauseating. Seemingly we all have agendas, any concerns or questioning of them are deemed to be irrational, without substance or nonsensical.

 I do have an agenda, I want Liverpool Football Club to be challenging at the highest level and for our owners to match that ambition of the majority of fans and our manager. They may have lowered some of your expectations, but for a lot of us, these high standards remain.

You can continue to shout down and disparage the likes of me but I'll keep going and venting my frustrations until such a time as they provide the necessary resources to get is back to challenging for the top honours.

Tell you what, lad. 

My concerns run far deeper than Liverpool Football Club.

My concerns run to the people of Liverpool. 

My family.

The Reds, the Blues, and those that don't give a fuck about footy.

FSG are showing me that they are good for my City.

They've thrown their lot in with a loyal fan base and a city that was condemned to decay and never had the funds or the industry to prevent it.

They're bringing tourism, jobs, money and  notoriety that we lost once we stopped being a port.

Postulate, dream and criticise all you want but know what your talking about and learn from what you read here.

[reddebs]

I'm a bit old and my memory isn't what it was but haven't we contested 4 finals during their ownership, something we hadn't done since the CL final in 2007?

[DangerScouse]

Where do FSG's and the Managers ambitions differ? Please direct quotes, in context.

Also, pray tell me as you seem to have intimate knowledge of what the majority of the fans (how many is that, worldwide?)want, what method have they all agreed on to achieve these ambitions, and what are they prepared to do to bring it about?

The quotes where we were told the owners had the resources to compete with anyone yet we routinely lose out to our rivals on players as we aren't prepared to pay the required transfer fee and or wages.

The proven method with a direct correlation to sustained success is a continual and sizeable investment in the playing squad something I'm sure isn't beyond our billionaire owners.

As I've said previously, I don't expect us to match the spending of either manc club or Chelsea but the club will not to get back to the top without significant investment, and I mean above any funds recouped from player sales.

[sms1986]

I'm a bit old and my memory isn't what it was but haven't we contested 4 finals during their ownership, something we hadn't done since the CL final in 2007?

League Cup 2012 (winners)
FA Cup 2012 (runners up)
League Cup 2016 (runners up)
Europa League 2016 (runners up)

[DangerScouse]

League Cup 2012 (winners)
FA Cup 2012 (runners up)
League Cup 2016 (runners up)
Europa League 2016 (runners up)

And with more investment in quality we may well have won more than a solitary trophy. We've also had our worst league finishes for over 50 seasons since they've taken over.

[Carlito Roberto]

See, Dangerscouse, that's almost a 'Im a better fan than you' type of post. You think you want better for Liverpool than someone else, that you care more for those things to be achieved.

The problem is that's not the case. At all. I imagine almost all of us on here care just the same and ultimately want the same for the club.

However some of us simply differ in our view on how we are able to achieve those things. That doesn't mean anyone is a better fan than anyone else, which is certainly how your post is coming across, but just that we have a different opinion.

Craig answer this honestly..

Since the beginning of their tenure, do you believe FSG have provided the required level of resource in terms of player recruitment, in order for us to be able to compete at the top of the table on a consistent basis?

[sms1986]

And with more investment in quality we may well have won more than a solitary trophy. We've also had our worst league finishes for over 50 seasons since they've taken over.

We were hardly thrashed in the FA Cup final and only lost the League Cup final on penalties (and we generally do not lose penalty shootouts).

We also had one of our closest title challenges in recent years not too long ago, and this year we're looking like finishing top four. Last season we could have done that as well, but we made Europe the priority.

[DangerScouse]

Tell you what, lad. 

I wouldn't know where to start with this post which I frankly find utter nonsense. I appreciate your concerns may lie elsewhere, I have my own priorities outside of the club but to paint the owners as some kind of altruistic philanthropists is laughable.

[Graham Smith]

As is his prerogative. He can buy all the yacht's he wants as long as they aren't being funded with LFC money.

Seriously, some of the statements are so fucking strange here, dislike due to 'hedge fund managers', 'money men', 'more invested in yachts than the club'. What on earth is this antagonism towards money all about ? Irony is, the amount of 'investment' you want from them would make them even bigger 'money men'.

Honest question. Is this cultural bias or just bitter skeptics being what they are ?

Cultural bias? What's that mean?

And I have just quoted a fact.

[NaivetyinBlack]

The dismissal from some of the FSG "apologists" towards any valid criticism of the owners is beyond nauseating. Seemingly we all have agendas, any concerns or questioning of them are deemed to be irrational, without substance or nonsensical.

 I do have an agenda, I want Liverpool Football Club to be challenging at the highest level and for our owners to match that ambition of the majority of fans and our manager. They may have lowered some of your expectations, but for a lot of us, these high standards remain.

You can continue to shout down and disparage the likes of me but I'll keep going and venting my frustrations until such a time as they provide the necessary resources to get is back to challenging for the top honours.

Post accompanied with a chest thump, I assume. Kissing the badge too.

Also, you are wrong. Klopp has never in his time here alluded to any difference in ambitions of him and FSG. In fact, I distinctly remember him saying something like he came to LFC because of FSG's ambitions.

Unless you're the king paranoia Al555 and don't trust what Klopp says, you shouldn't believe any difference exists.

[Pistolero]

Tell you what, lad. 

My concerns run far deeper than Liverpool Football Club.

My concerns run to the people of Liverpool. 

My family.

The Reds, the Blues, and those that don't give a fuck about footy.

FSG are showing me that they are good for my City.

They've thrown their lot in with a loyal fan base and a city that was condemned to decay and never had the funds or the industry to prevent it.

They're bringing tourism, jobs, money and  notoriety that we lost once we stopped being a port.

Postulate, dream and criticise all you want but know what your talking about and learn from what you read here.

you've changed your tune haven't you?....scouse-bating to full on Ricky Tomlinson in one fell swoop....thank god they arrived in time eh?..footballing pipsqueaks that we were before they got here, we should tug our unwashed forelocks and bless them with the spirit of Bessie Braddock and Cilla Black ...........utter, utter laughable nonsense

[jambutty]

Postulate, dream and criticise all you want but know what your talking about and learn from what you read here.

Or not

[Graham Smith]

Tell you what, lad. 

My concerns run far deeper than Liverpool Football Club.

My concerns run to the people of Liverpool. 

My family.

The Reds, the Blues, and those that don't give a fuck about footy.

FSG are showing me that they are good for my City.

They've thrown their lot in with a loyal fan base and a city that was condemned to decay and never had the funds or the industry to prevent it.

They're bringing tourism, jobs, money and  notoriety that we lost once we stopped being a port.

Postulate, dream and criticise all you want but know what your talking about and learn from what you read here.

Is that a real post or some sort of post ironic critique?

[NaivetyinBlack]

Cultural bias? What's that mean?

And I have just quoted a fact.

A bias against FSG because of what they represent. A culture of making money.

[jillcwhomever]

I wouldn't know where to start with this post which I frankly find utter nonsense. I appreciate your concerns may lie elsewhere, I have my own priorities outside of the club but to paint the owners as some kind of altruistic philanthropists is laughable.

And the way you dismiss others who don't share your opinion is shite. Craig got it right people have different opinions at the moment. So stop dismissing everyone who refuses to share your particular viewpoint. A lot of people are waiting for the summer to see what happens, before making their minds up. It would be so better this subject if people didn't sound so arrogant, when answering others. It doesn't do anything for the general tone of this particular thread.

[jambutty]

you've changed your tune haven't you

Always been the same tune, mate.

Maybe you're tone deaf?

[DangerScouse]

Post accompanied with a chest thump, I assume. Kissing the badge too.

Oh do fuck off with that patronising bollox.

Supporters being critical of the owners get labelled spoilt and claims are made that people like me will never be happy. I try and explain myself and this shite gets spouted. Super fan for wanting the best for the club?

[NaivetyinBlack]

Heh. Nice one jambutty.

Finally some quality spin on the pro-FSG-scouse context.

[lfc79]

Craig answer this honestly..

Since the beginning of their tenure, do you believe FSG have provided the required level of resource in terms of player recruitment, in order for us to be able to compete at the top of the table on a consistent basis?

No to compete with Man City and Chelsea after a period out of the Champions league would have taken the same kind of expenditure that allowed them to establish themselves, couple of seasons spending £100+ and player wages in the £150k a week bracket, Suarez pre world cup new £300k deal with £150m buy out clause.

[DangerScouse]

And the way you dismiss others who don't share your opinion is shite. Craig got it right people have different opinions at the moment. So stop dismissing everyone who refuses to share your particular viewpoint. A lot of people are waiting for the summer to see what happens, before making their minds up. It would be so better this subject if people didn't sound so arrogant, when answering others. It doesn't do anything for the general tone of this particular thread.

I've tried to be as respectful as possible in this thread. Have a read of a few of the comments at the top of the page which prompted my response setting out my thoughts on the owners.

I've never once disagreed that people aren't entitled to wait until the summer before making up their minds so please refrain from attributing comments to me that I haven't made.

[Graham Smith]

A bias against FSG because of what they represent. A culture of making money.

Like a few on here you reduce debate about them to the lowest common denominator and consider anyone local to the Club having a 'cultural' bias against American investment fund owners.

Too simplistic and if you read my posts I try and remain factual (having had more experience than most of the anonymous posters on here of meeting them and seeing at close hand how they operate.

They need to be held to account, they are presiding over our worst football results on the pitch for 50 years and whenever there is a decision that contradicts between FSG and LFC the former gets the nod.

They have compounded being naive when they arrived with thinking their new way of thinking could buck the trend consistently - as it happens they did it once in six years.

They're businessmen, they have no real skin in the game here in Liverpool. That's what they will get called out from the city until they change their tune and at least nod to the fact that it is a football club in its community first and foremost, a business second.

[jillcwhomever]

I've tried to be as respectful as possible in this thread. Have a read of a few of the comments at the top of the page which prompted my response setting out my thoughts on the owners.

I've never once disagreed that people aren't entitled to wait until the summer before making up their minds so please refrain from attributing comments to me that I haven't made.

I never said that you did say that, I was using you as an example in the last few posts. The problem is people (on both sides), get so riled up that they casually dismiss others sometimes who have a different viewpoint, that's all I mean. At the end of the day we're all fans of the club, and we all want whats best for it, we just at the moment have different views, on how to go about it.

[jillcwhomever]

This is a general point to anyone Al, Craig, Graham. Now that article 50 has been waved will that affect future football transfers. I'm just wondering if all of a sudden the Premier League will seem like a less interesting place for some of the big talents especially EU citizens. Also how will the Premier League clubs deal with any problems from it. 

[sms1986]

This is a general point to anyone Al, Craig, Graham. Now that article 50 has been waved will that affect future football transfers. I'm just wondering if all of a sudden the Premier League will seem like a less interesting place for some of the big talents especially EU citizens. Also how will the Premier League clubs deal with any problems from it.

It probably won't affect football until at least 2019 when/if we leave the EU. The Premier League will still be rich and will still attract talented players from elsewhere. An article from last year goes into some detail about it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35427610.

[Graham Smith]

This is a general point to anyone Al, Craig, Graham. Now that article 50 has been waved will that affect future football transfers. I'm just wondering if all of a sudden the Premier League will seem like a less interesting place for some of the big talents especially EU citizens. Also how will the Premier League clubs deal with any problems from it. 

My view is they will treat it like the financial sector is probably going to be treated and create 'football passports' exempting them from freedom of movement restrictions.

Money will talk.

[jillcwhomever]

Thanks guys, will read that article. It wouldn't surprise me if they find a way around things, the big clubs normally do.

[Gerry Attrick]

I think FSG are decent owners. The club is being run on a stable footing, we have a top class manager and some good players. However, I don't think we can have sustained success without having the same resources as competitors. Sure, we might have the odd standout season where everything falls into place but you only have to look across Europe to see how difficult it is for clubs with smaller budgets to compete against the behemoths season in season out. Sevilla are the only club I can think of in recent times and even they had ordinary league campaigns in Europa League winning seasons. They also had one of the finest minds in football running the club, something we don't have. Klopp is excellent but he's going to have to perform miracles to keep us ahead of Chelsea and Man City for the next few seasons.

[Ipcress]

The dismissal from some of the FSG "apologists" towards any valid criticism of the owners is beyond nauseating. Seemingly we all have agendas, any concerns or questioning of them are deemed to be irrational, without substance or nonsensical.

 I do have an agenda, I want Liverpool Football Club to be challenging at the highest level and for our owners to match that ambition of the majority of fans and our manager. They may have lowered some of your expectations, but for a lot of us, these high standards remain.

You can continue to shout down and disparage the likes of me but I'll keep going and venting my frustrations until such a time as they provide the necessary resources to get is back to challenging for the top honours.

Dangerscouse, I don't know if you missed my post or are just avoiding the questions, so I thought I would repost.


Where do FSG's and the Managers ambitions differ? Please direct quotes, in context.

Also, pray tell me as you seem to have intimate knowledge of what the majority of the fans want (how many is that, worldwide?), what method have they all agreed on to achieve these ambitions, and what are they prepared to do to bring it about?

[DangerScouse]

Dangerscouse, I don't know if you missed my post or are just avoiding the questions, so I thought I would repost.


Where do FSG's and the Managers ambitions differ? Please direct quotes, in context.

Also, pray tell me as you seem to have intimate knowledge of what the majority of the fans want (how many is that, worldwide?), what method have they all agreed on to achieve these ambitions, and what are they prepared to do to bring it about?

I answered your post.

[DangerScouse]

The quotes where we were told the owners had the resources to compete with anyone yet we routinely lose out to our rivals on players as we aren't prepared to pay the required transfer fee and or wages.

The proven method with a direct correlation to sustained success is a continual and sizeable investment in the playing squad something I'm sure isn't beyond our billionaire owners.

As I've said previously, I don't expect us to match the spending of either manc club or Chelsea but the club will not to get back to the top without significant investment, and I mean above any funds recouped from player sales.

[jambutty]

utter nonsense.

...........utter, utter laughable nonsense

High praise, considering the sauce.

Ta.