Topic: Luis Suarez

[The Red Machine]

I miss this man so much

[Barneylfc∗]

Disappointing, doesn't chance my absolute manlove for him though.

Looked to me like there was some contact. Maybe there wasn't but from the 2 or 3 times I seen it, there may have been. Certainly not enough to go down the way he did, or maybe even at all.
But you do see often enough players staying on their feet and not getting what would be a penalty if they went down. Even the commentators say they should've went down to get the pen.
There are far worse incidents in football than players going down with minimal contact. They know if they don't go down, they definitely won't get the decision. Players from all over the globe do it all the time, even English players. That doesn't make it right, but it seems to be escalated to ridiculous levels when Spanish or South American players do it.

[Red Beret]

If there's one thing I've learned from watching the Prem all these years it's that Liverpool have to learn to fight dirty.  Principles are all well and good but when you're up against the mancs and Chelsea ref-mobbers then I'm all for the odd belly flop.

I draw the line at waving imaginary cards though.  That's so fecking childish and pathetic to be beyond belief.

[Severely]

“Knocks and niggles didn’t bother him, he played through them,” says the captain. “[He was] a real warrior. I never saw him in the treatment room.

“I remember one game, his ankle was that swollen he couldn’t get his boot on, so he had to go a size up in someone else’s boots. He played on and scored an unbelievable free-kick.

“Stuff like that you don’t forget. What he does on the pitch speaks for itself. To line up in the tunnel, it’d give you so much confidence as a player knowing that you were going into a game and he was leading at the top. You would react from him and he would set everything off.”

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/263549-the-swollen-ankle-story-that-encapsulates-luis-suarez

Haven't seen this posted. This level of commitment and talent - no wonder he made it to where he is.

[SlowRap]

“Knocks and niggles didn’t bother him, he played through them,” says the captain. “[He was] a real warrior. I never saw him in the treatment room.

“I remember one game, his ankle was that swollen he couldn’t get his boot on, so he had to go a size up in someone else’s boots. He played on and scored an unbelievable free-kick.

“Stuff like that you don’t forget. What he does on the pitch speaks for itself. To line up in the tunnel, it’d give you so much confidence as a player knowing that you were going into a game and he was leading at the top. You would react from him and he would set everything off.”

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/263549-the-swollen-ankle-story-that-encapsulates-luis-suarez

Haven't seen this posted. This level of commitment and talent - no wonder he made it to where he is.

I miss the crazy bastard

[oojason]

LFC tv's Premier League Heroes show - this one on Suarez - https://vid.me/Nd5R

[Oddball]

LFC tv's Premier League Heroes show - this one on Suarez - https://vid.me/Nd5R

Nice one for that mate. Good little watch.

[stevieG786]

LFC tv's Premier League Heroes show - this one on Suarez - https://vid.me/Nd5R

Great show that, cheers.

[Sarge]

Who are the 2.9% that say he is a flop.

I mean 96 people on this site think he is either as good as Pedo or a flop. Now Pedro is very good but Suarez is miles ahead of him, in addition he aint no Messi.

[Samie]

New interview. I miss the mad bastard. 

Luis Suarez reveals what LFC means to him: http://lfc.tv/ASTU

As a player who would grace literally any team in the world, it's somewhat surprising to hear Luis Suarez say he 'never imagined' he might be worthy of representing Liverpool.

But the Uruguayan, who has carved out a reputation as the best centre-forward in football in recent years, couldn't believe his luck when the possibility of a move to Anfield arose back in 2011.

Suarez had proven himself as a prolific marksman in the Eredivisie with Ajax, but moved up to a new level after a January move to the Reds, scoring 82 goals in 133 appearances.

Although his stint on Merseyside brought only a League Cup and a near-miss in the Premier League, the forward regularly lit up Anfield and has since gone on to win two Spanish titles, three Copas del Rey and the Champions League with Barcelona.

And he has still not forgotten the feeling of securing the 'dream' move to Liverpool that proved to be his making.

"When I was little, Liverpool was one of the biggest clubs in Europe and was renowned throughout the world," the 30-year-old said in 'What LFC Means To Me: Luis Suarez', the latest in our series of interviews with key figures in the club's 125 years of existence.

"So when I found out about the club’s interest in me I was never in doubt because it’s the dream for any player.

"I never imagined that I would get the chance to play there."

That Suarez still speaks with such affection about Liverpool, three years on from his departure, is largely down to the loyal support of the club's fans throughout his stay.

"At Anfield, the fans get right behind you come what may," he added.

"The affection that they show to you is just so special, which in turn makes you lift up your head and respond, rather than letting it drop a little.

"For me, this is just what the Liverpool fans have."

[Red Eyed]

As a fairly recent fan I've missed most of the great Liverpool players like Dalglish, Barnes and Rush, even Gerrard's prime years, for those with the fortune to witness some of those players where would you rank Suarez in terms of sheer ability?

[S]

As a fairly recent fan I've missed most of the great Liverpool players like Dalglish, Barnes and Rush, even Gerrard's prime years, for those with the fortune to witness some of those players where would you rank Suarez in terms of sheer ability?

I didn't see the first three, but saw all of Gerrard's career. Gerrard over the course of many years at the club has obviously been the best and most important player I've seen. That's not even close.

In terms of peak ability though? Nobody touches Suarez. He was a top striker when he arrived here, but by the time the 2013/14 season rolled around he was genuinely world class. In the past five or so years I believe that only Messi and Ronaldo have been better than him.

Time and time again he would take your breath away. I've seen some great solo performances but I genuinely couldn't believe what I was watching in certain games, like when he scored those four against Norwich.

[Haemoglobin]

As a fairly recent fan I've missed most of the great Liverpool players like Dalglish, Barnes and Rush, even Gerrard's prime years, for those with the fortune to witness some of those players where would you rank Suarez in terms of sheer ability?

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

[slotmachine]

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

+1

i dont think we have ever had a player who was the best player in the world and i feel Suarez in 13/14 when he came back from is suspension at the end of September for about 4 months he was the best on the planet. even better than Messi and Ronaldo at this time. I think the closest to this was probably Barnesy 87/88.

[JD.]

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

Sorry but that is nuts. Easily? Easily more ability than the likes of Kenny, Barnes, Stevie etc? Nah. It's a conversation, but easily? Not a chance.

[ToneLa]

Dunno, footie is faster and tougher now, but on the flip side there's more physiotherapy, more aid, more attention to detail.

It's one of those circular arguments where you could say Messi in the 70s wouldn't have the conditioning to reach the heights he does now.

I have old relatives who remember Kenny in his pomp and say Luis is better.

It's one of those things:if someone says he is, I won't get narked! If someone says he isn't, I'll understand!

[Haemoglobin]

Sorry but that is nuts. Easily? Easily more ability than the likes of Kenny, Barnes, Stevie etc? Nah. It's a conversation, but easily? Not a chance.

Sheer technical ability, yep. No, it's not nuts. Streets ahead.

The others excelled in various other aspects, specialised to magnificent effect, and thus arguably proved to be far more valuable players overall (most certainly in terms of what they actually achieved with/for us - that along with his disciplinary record is a pretty big black mark on Suarez's LFC chapter)... but there can be no doubt that in terms of an audacious touch, for instance, Suarez is number 1. He obviously had more than just that in his locker, he's a marvellous uncommon combination of things like the others were, but his most outrageous gifts clearly set him apart.

[JD.]

Sheer technical ability, yep. No, it's not nuts. Streets ahead.

Nope. Not a chance any players is streets ahead of John Barnes, Steven Gerrard or Kenny Dalglish.

[Haemoglobin]

Nope. Not a chance any players is streets ahead of John Barnes, John Barnes or Kenny Dalglish.

I don't think you're quite catching the nuance of 'sheer technical ability' - that doesn't include anticipation, decision-making, pace, brawn, inspirational morale-boosting presence, etc. It's not who's "the best Liverpool player"; that's the conversation you mention.

It's just dishonest to say The King had a lighter touch than Suarez, for example. Doesn't mean he didn't use the ball to devastating effect with his game intelligence.


Also, there was only one John Barnes 

[BabuYagu]

In his twilight years, Fowler was brought back to the club by Rafa. Arsenal did the same with Henry. I hope something like that happens with Suarez too. He´ll be 34 when his contract expires and I know it´s unlikely, but just part of me would love for my kid who would be almost 10 then to see him. She´ll have her head full of stories by then >D

[Coolie High]

Sheer technical ability, yep. No, it's not nuts. Streets ahead.

The others excelled in various other aspects, specialised to magnificent effect, and thus arguably proved to be far more valuable players overall (most certainly in terms of what they actually achieved with/for us - that along with his disciplinary record is a pretty big black mark on Suarez's LFC chapter)... but there can be no doubt that in terms of an audacious touch, for instance, Suarez is number 1. He obviously had more than just that in his locker, he's a marvellous uncommon combination of things like the others were, but his most outrageous gifts clearly set him apart.

Nah he's right to say you're nuts, hes not technically streets ahead of any of them.

[BabuYagu]

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

So I was fortunate enough to meet Jairzinho once.

A group of us were having a chat with him and he was asked how he felt his 1970 team would do against sides today to which he answered it depends whose ball and equipment was used.

He said that if a player today tried to run on a pitch back then, use boots from them or kick a ball from then, they would probably end up injured. He said just kicking the ball off the ground would be an achievement for them such was the weight difference between then and now. The boots of today are much better for close control and pace. Back then boots were to protect your feet and stop you falling over. Tackling back then was different to now too so he is not sure Neymar would survive a game in that era.

Basically... it´s hard to judge the underlying natural skill level of players from different eras. How good would Dalglish be with 2017 diet, coaching, equipment, tactics, pitches etc. Just being able to keep your feet and run on a pitch back then was an achievement in itself. So the basic level of balance and technique just to run on a lumpy pitch or control a heavy water logged ball with what felt like wooden shoes on must have been much MUCH higher back then.

I personally think it´s an almost impossible question to answer. I think players from this era and goals look far more spectacular. But then the whole sport have been redesigned now to be more about entertainment than sport.

[Haemoglobin]

Nah he's right to say you're nuts, hes not technically streets ahead of any of them.

As a striker, his all-round technique is significantly better than any other we've had. He's widely regarded as one of the very best to have played the game.

If anyone wants to post a better goals showreel than this, feel free (and please make sure it has better music too):


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/p3sutIUneNg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/p3sutIUneNg</a>


I don't even agree with the order in that, and he's scored and assisted a ridiculous amount of beautiful goals in his time at Barcelona.

And no, I am not nuts for clearly articulating my thoughts on this, you silly insult-tossing twats.

So I was fortunate enough to meet Jairzinho once.

A group of us were having a chat with him and he was asked how he felt his 1970 team would do against sides today to which he answered it depends whose ball and equipment was used.

He said that if a player today tried to run on a pitch back then, use boots from them or kick a ball from then, they would probably end up injured. He said just kicking the ball off the ground would be an achievement for them such was the weight difference between then and now. The boots of today are much better for close control and pace. Back then boots were to protect your feet and stop you falling over. Tackling back then was different to now too so he is not sure Neymar would survive a game in that era.

Basically... it´s hard to judge the underlying natural skill level of players from different eras. How good would Dalglish be with 2017 diet, coaching, equipment, tactics, pitches etc. Just being able to keep your feet and run on a pitch back then was an achievement in itself. So the basic level of balance and technique just to run on a lumpy pitch or control a heavy water logged ball with what felt like wooden shoes on must have been much MUCH higher back then.

I personally think it´s an almost impossible question to answer. I think players from this era and goals look far more spectacular. But then the whole sport have been redesigned now to be more about entertainment than sport.

But I'd say it's best to judge on what's there in front of you, rather than what could have been, if this or that. And people reacting like it's blasphemy need to get their shit together - we're talking about the cream of the cream here, it's no insult. All those mentioned were fucking amazing footballers whatever era they played in and however boggy the pitches/heavy the balls... but Suarez is the most technically gifted I've seen in a Liverpool shirt.

[Pistolero]

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

Easily top?.....what nonsense is this  .....I bow to few in my admiration of Luis of but that's bollocks.....he's undoubtedly in the elite echelon of ex-reds - one that includes the players you mention (and also Souness) but you're over-egging the pudding with that statement.

[Chalky Boots]

Yep, well over-egged. I think Suarez tops it but you're talking marginally against the likes of Barnes. Souness should always get a mention too given he's bar-far the silkiest hardman I think I've ever seen footage of.


I dunno about bringing him back like, he strikes me as someone who'll spend his mid 30's getting fat and playing low level football.

[Sangria]

As a striker, his all-round technique is significantly better than any other we've had. He's widely regarded as one of the very best to have played the game.

If anyone wants to post a better goals showreel than this, feel free (and please make sure it has better music too):

I don't even agree with the order in that, and he's scored and assisted a ridiculous amount of beautiful goals in his time at Barcelona.

And no, I am not nuts for clearly articulating my thoughts on this, you silly insult-tossing twats.
But I'd say it's best to judge on what's there in front of you, rather than what could have been, if this or that. And people reacting like it's blasphemy need to get their shit together - we're talking about the cream of the cream here, it's no insult. All those mentioned were fucking amazing footballers whatever era they played in and however boggy the pitches/heavy the balls... but Suarez is the most technically gifted I've seen in a Liverpool shirt.

Barnes scored his share of beautiful goals in his later career as the game changed. And he'd played in an earlier era when pitches were routinely boggy (I remember Maine Road 88 and both teams were playing in brown). He proved himself in the ruggedness of the earlier era, and he proved himself in the technical aesthetics of the newer era.

[JD.]

I don't think you're quite catching the nuance of 'sheer technical ability' - that doesn't include anticipation, decision-making, pace, brawn, inspirational morale-boosting presence, etc. It's not who's "the best Liverpool player"; that's the conversation you mention.

It's just dishonest to say The King had a lighter touch than Suarez, for example. Doesn't mean he didn't use the ball to devastating effect with his game intelligence.


Also, there was only one John Barnes 

I think Suarez' technical ability isn't close to being one of his biggest strengths to be honest. His actual touch was often quite inconsistent. The amount of times he gave the ball away was quite high. It was his imagination which was streets ahead of anyone. I'd give you that. But his actual first touch or when he had the ball at his feet was actually quite inconsistent in my opinion. Still obviously good, but I don't think I'd say he had better technique that Gerrard or Alonso for example. If I was firing a ball in to a players feet 100 times, I'd back Gerrard to control it more often than Suarez.

[JD.]

As a striker, his all-round technique is significantly better than any other we've had. He's widely regarded as one of the very best to have played the game.

If anyone wants to post a better goals showreel than this, feel free (and please make sure it has better music too):


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/p3sutIUneNg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/p3sutIUneNg</a>


I don't even agree with the order in that, and he's scored and assisted a ridiculous amount of beautiful goals in his time at Barcelona.

And no, I am not nuts for clearly articulating my thoughts on this, you silly insult-tossing twats.
But I'd say it's best to judge on what's there in front of you, rather than what could have been, if this or that. And people reacting like it's blasphemy need to get their shit together - we're talking about the cream of the cream here, it's no insult. All those mentioned were fucking amazing footballers whatever era they played in and however boggy the pitches/heavy the balls... but Suarez is the most technically gifted I've seen in a Liverpool shirt.

I honestly don't see how you could say Suarez was better technically than say Fernando Torres. It wasn't Suarez technique that made him special in the slightest. It was his incredible imagination and ingenuity.

[BabuYagu]

But I'd say it's best to judge on what's there in front of you, rather than what could have been, if this or that. And people reacting like it's blasphemy need to get their shit together - we're talking about the cream of the cream here, it's no insult. All those mentioned were fucking amazing footballers whatever era they played in and however boggy the pitches/heavy the balls... but Suarez is the most technically gifted I've seen in a Liverpool shirt.

But again, you are judging people based on entertainment value rather than the question, which was sheer ability.

If by some freak disaster, Barcelona ended up under 2 foot of water and UEFA said "fuck it, you have to complete your games" then there would be nothing spectacular about their games. Or if you gave them lead boots to use. Actually doing something that resembled football would be amazing in itself. So the conditions do impact on your chances to show your "sheer ability" which was the question.

For example Garrincha. He was born in 1933 with ricketts. His dad an alcoholic, he ended up becoming one. He didn´t care about football, just about drinking and fucking. He played for the football team from his local favela but when scouts approached him, he siad he had no interest in playing football for real. He eventually gave in and joined Botafogo aged 20... probably when he realised he could fuck and drink more with that career. At this point he was already married with kids.

"Team officials were ecstatic to learn that he was over 18 and able to be treated as a professional. In his first training session, he demonstrated his extraordinary skills by dribbling the ball through the legs of Nílton Santos, a Brazilian international defender and defensive midfielder with 16 international caps, who then requested himself for Garrincha to be hired for Brazil.[13] He played in a 5–0 win for Botafogo's reserves and then scored a hat trick on his first-team début against Bonsucesso on July 19, 1953."

Now talking about sheer ability, just how much do you think Garrincha had? IMO he is the most naturally gifted player ever born. When on the same pitch as Pele, it was he who stood out. Yet the things Garrincha did with the ball that made him stand out in that era are common place today. The goals scored today would look far more spectacular than ones he was scoring due to the weight of the ball, better pitches and better footwear. I read that he would hit shots twice as hard at anybody else at his club simply because he couldn´t feel the pain it would cause as he was usually drunk for training and games.

So sheer ability - that is hard to compare across generations IMO. Entertaining to watch though - I´ll accept your Suarez answer.

[Solomon Grundy]

Please come back Luis. You know you want to.

[Haemoglobin]

It's neither nonsense nor bollocks, that's the over-egging if anything going on here - we haven't had another striker who did with the ball what he would pretty regularly do with the ball, that's the short and tall of it for me. It's fine and totally welcome if you want to argue against that personally-held position, but I've very specifically defined what it is I mean (and no, not that Suarez is "the best Liverpool player", I don't have him top of that list), and provided the obligatory youtube video with daft annoying soundtrack to boot.

It becomes pretty difficult when you're comparing players from other positions, because you're comparing different disciplines; Suarez didn't showcase such a complete mastery of passing or crossing because that often just wasn't his job, from where he was on the field. Gerrard evidently has him licked on receiving the ball in midfield and long-range attacking pinpoint passing from deep for instance, because Gerrard did absolutely shitloads of that and became very adept at that function in the side. From that point of view, you can say Barnes or Souness can't and shouldn't be judged properly alongside him at all, so you can't say he's technically 'better' than them (and I know of almost all the beautiful goals Barnes scored for us, I haven't once denigrated his ability with the ball). But I would absolutely contend that he has shown, for all to see right now, significantly better mastery of the ball than any of them when it comes to getting it in the back of the net frequently and as spectacularly and imaginatively as possible. Rush was his superior when it comes to just getting it there efficiently without fuss or a great deal of invention (he defo had his moments though), but who knows how many Suarez might end up with?


Souness being the silkiest hardman ever doesn't mean Suarez isn't more technically gifted; that hardman part is a qualification, that doesn't really matter when talking purely about (attacking) technique, which we were. That hardman with a silken touch angle is what made him a fucking brilliant effective player for us, but no one is going to argue he's one of the most technical midfielders ever, because some far less hard men were far more technically adept.

I shouldn't have to keep making the point that I'm not saying the others are lesser Liverpool players, just that Suarez has something on them from a purely technical standpoint. In fact, the South Americans have traditionally had something on us all - the very greatest and most audacious technique in football has been desplayed for the most part by Latin American players; Coutinho is rightly miles away from being considered a legend here, but his delicate caress of the ball is something to behold. He may well turn out to be our greatest technical player, we'll see what else he conjures up, but forces of nature like Kenny, Ste and Luis have other stuff going for them which elevated them beyond such things.

I honestly don't see how you could say Suarez was better technically than say Fernando Torres. It wasn't Suarez technique that made him special in the slightest. It was his incredible imagination and ingenuity.

You can imagine doing something, but you still have to strike the ball the right way to make it reality, and that involves great technique. Megging is a technical skill, the variety of the goals he's scored demand great technical skill. You can fairly argue he's been inconsistent with it, but then so was Ronaldinho.

Like I say, he had/has many more things going on that make him 'special', but that application of imagination through technical quality is one of them.

[Haemoglobin]

But again, you are judging people based on entertainment value rather than the question, which was sheer ability.

If by some freak disaster, Barcelona ended up under 2 foot of water and UEFA said "fuck it, you have to complete your games" then there would be nothing spectacular about their games. Or if you gave them lead boots to use. Actually doing something that resembled football would be amazing in itself. So the conditions do impact on your chances to show your "sheer ability" which was the question.

For example Garrincha. He was born in 1933 with ricketts. His dad an alcoholic, he ended up becoming one. He didn´t care about football, just about drinking and fucking. He played for the football team from his local favela but when scouts approached him, he siad he had no interest in playing football for real. He eventually gave in and joined Botafogo aged 20... probably when he realised he could fuck and drink more with that career. At this point he was already married with kids.

"Team officials were ecstatic to learn that he was over 18 and able to be treated as a professional. In his first training session, he demonstrated his extraordinary skills by dribbling the ball through the legs of Nílton Santos, a Brazilian international defender and defensive midfielder with 16 international caps, who then requested himself for Garrincha to be hired for Brazil.[13] He played in a 5–0 win for Botafogo's reserves and then scored a hat trick on his first-team début against Bonsucesso on July 19, 1953."

Now talking about sheer ability, just how much do you think Garrincha had? IMO he is the most naturally gifted player ever born. When on the same pitch as Pele, it was he who stood out. Yet the things Garrincha did with the ball that made him stand out in that era are common place today. The goals scored today would look far more spectacular than ones he was scoring due to the weight of the ball, better pitches and better footwear. I read that he would hit shots twice as hard at anybody else at his club simply because he couldn´t feel the pain it would cause as he was usually drunk for training and games.

So sheer ability - that is hard to compare across generations IMO. Entertaining to watch though - I´ll accept your Suarez answer.

The entertainment factor is a huge part of the ability for me, because seeing such magic entertains me greatly. There is undoubtedly immense skill involved in judging a crappy surface, factoring all those things in while maintaing close control like Garrincha, Best, etc. But if their circumstances (weight of the ball, poor playing surface, weather...) prevented them from doing the things done by others without such challenges to contend with, then they still didn't do them. The players that did them, did them.

Because it's incredibly difficult to judge like this with so many complex factors to take into consideration, we don't - I just go from what I've witnessed. Some splendidly-mustachioed dude from the '30s might have been the most stupendously gifted footballer there has ever been, but I can't make my own judgement on that, so I don't. I appreciate them, but separate them somewhat if it's for the most part anecdotal. I haven't seen anyone at Liverpool apply their technique to astonishing effect to quite the extent Suarez has.

Now whether he could do all that 100 times in a row with different variables thrown at him is another matter, and I suppose more indicative of technical quality. But he did it once! And there are so many amazing things I've seen him do once, the sheer variety of it all, and the fact that I haven't seen that utter mastery in the moment applied as frequently by another, is what leads me to easily have him at the top in that regard.

[J-Mc-]

If there was any possible way to get this lad back in a Liverpool shirt, playing in a Klopp team. We need to do it.

Miss the mad bastard.

[thelinnen]

In terms of sheer ability? Easily top.

There are other criteria that make the others much bigger Liverpool Legends, but he's the most gifted footballer to ever play for us, especially when you consider the passionate application of such talent. Dalglish was a cleverer all-round forward who read the game like a boss, Rush was far more clinical, Barnes was an incredible athlete to go with his pretty spectacular technical prowess, and Gerrard is pretty much the complete inspirational footballer, or as close to one you can get before their effectiveness in specialist roles falls beneath world class. But Suarez has a very rare combination of world class attributes, and on technique alone is among the very best strikers to have ever played the game.

Even with the technical ability argument, Gerrard could do things with a football that defied physics.

[Haemoglobin]

If there was any possible way to get this lad back in a Liverpool shirt, playing in a Klopp team. We need to do it.

Miss the mad bastard.

His suitability for a Klopp side is just one of those frustrating things in life. If it's anyone's fault, it's Suarez's, of course (not that it hasn't worked out nice again for him!), but damn.

I don't know how creaking bones will affect him (surely he's absorbed enough punishment and just got on with it through the pain for it to catch up with him at some point), but his reaction time will obviously suffer and his anticipation isn't that good for that not to impact his lethality. And where he'll be mentally well into his '30s, who can say? But as sentimental gambles go... fuck it, go ahead 

[JD.]

If there was any possible way to get this lad back in a Liverpool shirt, playing in a Klopp team. We need to do it.

Miss the mad bastard.

If we had him instead of Firmino - who I rate by the way - we'd win the league. Not a single doubt in my mind.

[J-Mc-]

His suitability for a Klopp side is just one of those frustrating things in life. If it's anyone's fault, it's Suarez's, of course (not that it hasn't worked out nice again for him!), but damn.

I don't know how creaking bones will affect him (surely he's absorbed enough punishment and just got on with it through the pain for it to catch up with him at some point), but his reaction time will obviously suffer and his anticipation isn't that good for that not to impact his lethality. And where he'll be mentally well into his '30s, who can say? But as sentimental gambles go... fuck it, go ahead 

If we can re-sign God, then we can have a second coming of Suarez mate! 😂

[JD.]

It's neither nonsense nor bollocks, that's the over-egging if anything going on here - we haven't had another striker who did with the ball what he would pretty regularly do with the ball, that's the short and tall of it for me. It's fine and totally welcome if you want to argue against that personally-held position, but I've very specifically defined what it is I mean (and no, not that Suarez is "the best Liverpool player", I don't have him top of that list), and provided the obligatory youtube video with daft annoying soundtrack to boot.

It becomes pretty difficult when you're comparing players from other positions, because you're comparing different disciplines; Suarez didn't showcase such a complete mastery of passing or crossing because that often just wasn't his job, from where he was on the field. Gerrard evidently has him licked on receiving the ball in midfield and long-range attacking pinpoint passing from deep for instance, because Gerrard did absolutely shitloads of that and became very adept at that function in the side. From that point of view, you can say Barnes or Souness can't and shouldn't be judged properly alongside him at all, so you can't say he's technically 'better' than them (and I know of almost all the beautiful goals Barnes scored for us, I haven't once denigrated his ability with the ball). But I would absolutely contend that he has shown, for all to see right now, significantly better mastery of the ball than any of them when it comes to getting it in the back of the net frequently and as spectacularly and imaginatively as possible. Rush was his superior when it comes to just getting it there efficiently without fuss or a great deal of invention (he defo had his moments though), but who knows how many Suarez might end up with?


Souness being the silkiest hardman ever doesn't mean Suarez isn't more technically gifted; that hardman part is a qualification, that doesn't really matter when talking purely about (attacking) technique, which we were. That hardman with a silken touch angle is what made him a fucking brilliant effective player for us, but no one is going to argue he's one of the most technical midfielders ever, because some far less hard men were far more technically adept.

I shouldn't have to keep making the point that I'm not saying the others are lesser Liverpool players, just that Suarez has something on them from a purely technical standpoint. In fact, the South Americans have traditionally had something on us all - the very greatest and most audacious technique in football has been desplayed for the most part by Latin American players; Coutinho is rightly miles away from being considered a legend here, but his delicate caress of the ball is something to behold. He may well turn out to be our greatest technical player, we'll see what else he conjures up, but forces of nature like Kenny, Ste and Luis have other stuff going for them which elevated them beyond such things. You can imagine doing something, but you still have to strike the ball the right way to make it reality, and that involves great technique. Megging is a technical skill, the variety of the goals he's scored demand great technical skill. You can fairly argue he's been inconsistent with it, but then so was Ronaldinho.

Like I say, he had/has many more things going on that make him 'special', but that application of imagination through technical quality is one of them.

Luis is, by the way, the most talented player I have ever seen in red. But not by miles as you would suggest. My opinion is that there is barely anything in it when it comes to technique between the likes of Barnes, Suarez, Torres etc. Although I was too young for Barnes so am basing on what I have heard and seen on youtube. The thing that made Suarez so special was the things he could think of in his mind. If Torres or Barnes could think of those things, there is no doubt in the slightest for me that they could pull them off. The thing is, nobody else could think of the things Luis did. That was what made him great. His mind was so unique. He is the greatest improviser I've ever seen.

 

[Haemoglobin]

Even with the technical ability argument, Gerrard could do things with a football that defied physics.

So could Suarez, to be fair.

But I think Gerrard is one particularly big fly in my oitment here, because his Roy of the Rovers 'complete footballer' thing is by definition technical mastery, even before you add in the stuff that made your jaw drop. I'm coming from the standpoint of goals being king, the ultimate aim of playing football and the hardest thing to do against serious opposition, but even then Ste has a pretty incredible record. It's one of those where I just can't see Gerrard pulling off some of the most magical footy antics of Luis, but I could see Suarez leather/nut them in like Ste did. I dunno, perhaps Suarez couldn't generate that sort of power so reliably, but it'd be less of a surprise for me to see him do it than the other way around.

[thelinnen]

So could Suarez, to be fair.

But I think Gerrard is one particularly big fly in my oitment here, because his Roy of the Rovers 'complete footballer' thing is by definition technical mastery, even before you add in the stuff that made your jaw drop. I'm coming from the standpoint of goals being king, the ultimate aim of playing football and the hardest thing to do against serious opposition, but even then Ste has a pretty incredible record. It's one of those where I just can't see Gerrard pulling off some of the most magical footy antics of Luis, but I could see Suarez leather/nut them in like Ste did. I dunno, perhaps Suarez couldn't generate that sort of power so reliably, but it'd be less of a surprise for me to see him do it than the other way around.

I'd always value a midfielder with those attributes over a striker though. Suarez couldn't play central midfield. When you have a world class midfielder who contributes significantly to the team's goals then it's like having 12 men on the pitch. Add to that he was a box to box player as well and could win the ball back, start and end a move almost by himself.