Author Topic: Education Secretary Wants A Slap  (Read 28228 times)

Offline adopted_scouser

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Education Secretary Wants A Slap
« on: April 18, 2013, 06:16:00 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22202694

Pupils in England should spend more hours at school each day and have shorter holidays, the Education Secretary Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove has argued.

In the most successful East Asian education systems, "school days are longer, school holidays are shorter", Mr Gove told an education conference.

He added that current school terms were designed for "an agricultural economy".

The headteachers' union ASCL said quality of learning was more important than hours spent in the classroom.

Speaking at an education conference in London, Mr Gove said: "It is already the case that some of the best schools in the country recognise the need to change the structure of the school term.

"It's also the case that some of the best schools in the country recognise that we need to have a longer school day as well."

'Tattie holiday'
He argued that a longer school day would also be more family-friendly and "consistent with the pressures of a modern society".

"I remember half term in October when I was at school in Aberdeen was called the tattie holiday, the period when kids would go to the fields to pick potatoes.

"It was also at a time when the majority of mums stayed home. That world no longer exists, and we can't afford to have an education system that was essentially, set in the 19th Century."

Mr Gove added that a longer school day was the norm in East Asian nations where "the expectations of mathematical and scientific knowledge are more demanding than this country".

"If you look at the length of the school day in England, the length of the summer holiday, and we compare it to the extra tuition and support that children are receiving elsewhere, then we are fighting or actually running in this global race in a way that ensures that we start with a significant handicap."

Mr Gove said that some academies (state schools outside local authority control), were already running longer school days while others had changed the structure of their school terms.

Tea at school
Examples of longer hours and terms given by the Department for Education include the David Young Community Academy in Leeds which operates a seven-term year starting in June. The basic pattern is a maximum of six weeks at school followed by a maximum of four weeks holiday.

Milton Keynes academy now has six terms of six weeks each year with a shorter summer holiday and a two-week break in October. There the school day starts at 08.30, allowing the school to offer five hours of extra teaching every week.

Harefield Academy in Hillingdon has a number of day boarders who are talented athletes. They arrive very early at school and sometimes don't go home until seven or eight at night. In the evenings they have their tea at school before catching up with homework and extra sport training.

Changes brought in by the government in 2011 also allow local authority schools to extend their school day. However schools are expected to consult and to take account of the views of all interested parties before they implement any changes to the school day.

Last year Nottingham City Council abandoned plans for a five-term school year after some teaching unions and parents said it was disruptive, particularly to families and staff members with children at schools outside the Nottingham area with traditional terms.

The council had proposed the plan as a way of improving attainment at its schools.

Brian Lightman of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL) said: "Some schools are introducing innovative changes to the school day and term and it will be interesting to see what effect these have in the longer term on achievement."

He warned that changes should be based on sound, researched evidence, "not on anecdotes from other countries with vastly different cultures and attitudes to education".

"The quality of the learning happening in classrooms when children are in school is more important than the number of hours they spend there."

Christine Blower of the National Union of Teachers said: "Teachers and pupils already spend longer hours in the classroom than most countries and also have some of the shortest summer holidays."

Thoughts?

Personally I wouldn't have been able to focus for that long at all.  I went on a school exchange to Germany, where the school there clocked off at 1pm, but started at 8am.  In my opinion, it was a better system.  I think this could be just a glorified cut though... Teachers get more hours on the same pay...

Discuss.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:17:47 pm by SP »
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Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 06:24:54 pm »
Discuss.

Gove should work longer hours for less pay

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 06:26:56 pm »
Gove should work longer hours for less pay
All you needed to say!
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 06:29:34 pm »
In Finland they have longer holidays and shorter days than here....

We are more like Finland than Asia aren't we?

There isn't good evidence that the length of the school day makes a difference.

I would also suggest that the massive amount of tutoring Asian kids gets has a huge effect on their system
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 06:30:31 pm »
Seems a waste of time to me. Why can't we focus on more meaningful things instead of individual success? Why give children and teenagers less time to spend with their family for example?
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 06:32:51 pm »
In Finland they have longer holidays and shorter days than here....

We are more like Finland than Asia aren't we?

There isn't good evidence that the length of the school day makes a difference.

I would also suggest that the massive amount of tutoring Asian kids gets has a huge effect on their system

Finland's education system is arguably the best in europe.
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 06:49:07 pm »
Bring back the school Leopard!
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 06:52:29 pm »
Would teachers get a pay increase?

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 06:54:11 pm »
T'workhouse and being up t'chimney is t'best t'little oiks deserve.
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:55:50 pm »
Finland's education system is arguably the best in europe.
My point exactly (which I forgot to post!)
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 06:58:37 pm »
I'm not totally opposed to he ideas if there's evidence behind it, but I've taught school days longer than 8.30 to 3.30 that I currently do, and to be frank the kids are tired.
They are particular tired in the winter when it goes dark early.

I've always found lessons that go on towards 5pm a law of diminishing returns as the kids are t focused enough.

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 07:01:32 pm »
The green is better in this country than it is in Finland. So you do the math.
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Offline adopted_scouser

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 07:05:47 pm »
Would teachers get a pay increase?

Under this government?...
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Offline KiNki

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 08:21:22 pm »
can we send gove to finland or better yet a short stay in switzerland?

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 08:22:54 pm »
They'd have to find evidence for me to support it, it just always sounds like "Well this is how they do it in Asia and their kids seem fairly smart, let's copy!".  Gove is a c*nt.

As for adjusting schooling hours, I can see a point to it if it makes sense but there's no real adjustment you can make that a) reflects the work a teacher puts in already with not just classroom stuff but planning lessons too, b) give parents a better working day, especially those in 9-5 jobs and c) giving the kids holidays that don't suit patterns that already exist.  Gove is a c*nt.

The key to it all is either small adjustments that alter lifestyle patterns for the better or large overhauls that base a much-altered system on modern research which is set to a curriculum tailored to modern life.  The fact that people in power want to send elements of education back to the past destroys any basis on having an education system set for today.  I just see the changes being made and there doesn't seem to be one, not one, based in solid evidence other than Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove seemingly saying "Well it wasn't like this in my day and look at me now!"  Yes, we can see you Michael, you're a c*nt.
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 08:29:07 pm »
Everything the man says and does is deliberately goading teachers into a fight. Gove is targeting teachers in the same way that Thatcher went for the miners and steelworkers. He is spoiling for a fight. We are under constant attack and we are fucking sick of it. Morale in the profession is at an all time low.
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Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 08:43:30 pm »
So make teachers work longer for low pay to teach children who will have lost focus by 2 pm let alone 4 or 5 pm to add to the pressure already on them to achieve the best possible results. Another amazing idea from Gove.
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Offline SalisburyRed

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2013, 08:44:30 pm »
Everything the man says and does is deliberately goading teachers into a fight. Gove is targeting teachers in the same way that Thatcher went for the miners and steelworkers. He is spoiling for a fight. We are under constant attack and we are fucking sick of it. Morale in the profession is at an all time low.

That was my first thought when I read this news. Gove's desperate for the teachers to strike, and asking them to work longer hours for, at best, a risible pay increase is a pretty good way of going about it. Gove is probably the most dangerous member of this government and desperately needs to be stopped.

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2013, 08:45:01 pm »
can we send gove to finland or better yet a short stay in switzerland?
Fuck that send the goggle eyed wobbly faced c*nt to Siberia.
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Offline Jimmy Conway

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2013, 09:03:38 pm »
To be fair. When I wenr school (90's) the local high school was 8.55am till 3.25pm. And now its 9.15 till 3pm. I only left 17 years ago!

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2013, 09:06:46 pm »
Everything the man says and does is deliberately goading teachers into a fight. Gove is targeting teachers in the same way that Thatcher went for the miners and steelworkers. He is spoiling for a fight. We are under constant attack and we are fucking sick of it. Morale in the profession is at an all time low.
You're right.

He's trying to provoke teachers, but most of all, he's trying to provoke public hatred of teachers.

Why would you do this?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2013, 09:07:38 pm »
To be fair. When I wenr school (90's) the local high school was 8.55am till 3.25pm. And now its 9.15 till 3pm. I only left 17 years ago!
Kids do 8.35 to 3.30 for me.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline wz4jc3

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2013, 09:14:24 pm »
The biggest prat in the country at the moment - FACT! :)

Offline RojoLeón

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 09:15:51 pm »
The biggest prat in the country at the moment - FACT! :)

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 09:16:47 pm »
Would love to know what his ulterior motive is - the man is an egomaniac
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 09:22:01 pm »
Would love to know what his ulterior motive is - the man is an egomaniac
Public hatred of teachers.

Very easily done, makes him seem like the hero and teachers like the villains.

He's playing politics for his own benefit and he's probably going to use opposition of his ideas to justify pay freezes for years to come.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2013, 09:24:13 pm »
Public hatred of teachers.

Very easily done, makes him seem like the hero and teachers like the villains.

He's playing politics for his own benefit and he's probably going to use opposition of his ideas to justify pay freezes for years to come.

What is worrying, it is so easy for them to do it, with them having the likes of The Mail and The Telegraph wrapped around their little fingers, printing out propaganda and stating it as fact.  And so many people in this country are too dim witted to be capable of thinking for themselves, they need a newspaper to tell them how to think!
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 09:25:29 pm »
Bring back the school Leopard!


And the 30 mile hop....

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2013, 09:25:54 pm »
To be fair. When I wenr school (90's) the local high school was 8.55am till 3.25pm. And now its 9.15 till 3pm. I only left 17 years ago!

8.50 to 3.40 where I teach. All teachers expected on site at 8.30 and can leave at 4. I then have an average of 3 hours work to do when I get home. I also work one full day each weekend. I genuinely have nothing more to give.
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 09:26:18 pm »
You're right.

He's trying to provoke teachers, but most of all, he's trying to provoke public hatred of teachers.

Why would you do this?

It couldnt be the start of the all teachers are lazy and should work longer days with less holidays argument so that more mums can get a free child minder and get themselves out to work for a full day picking the little ones up on their way home and thereby utilising the other potential 50% of the workforce that has traditionally sat at home all day making nothing for the fat cat bosses could it? Surely the Tories wouldnt be pushing that would they?
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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 09:30:30 pm »
I did 08:15-16:00 at my secondary, started there in 1996.

Pissed me off for the first few weeks but I got used to it and the teachers seemed pretty content but it was in a privately funded school. Don't see how it could be done in state schools without pissing off teachers.

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 09:33:10 pm »
I did 08:15-16:00 at my secondary, started there in 1996.

Pissed me off for the first few weeks but I got used to it and the teachers seemed pretty content but it was in a privately funded school. Don't see how it could be done in state schools without pissing off teachers.
It's not really about pissing people off.

It's about whether it actually works.   There is no evidence longer hours for the kids would work.


Interstingly, he's very fond of talking about how state schools should be more like the private sector, private sector schools (almost without exception) have longer holidays than state schools.

Why is this?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Mouth

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2013, 09:39:17 pm »
Interstingly, he's very fond of talking about how state schools should be more like the private sector, private sector schools (almost without exception) have longer holidays than state schools.

Why is this?
So they can go skiing.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2013, 09:43:10 pm »
So they can go skiing.
And why not eh? ;)
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Offline Hymer Red

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2013, 09:49:00 pm »
8.50 to 3.40 where I teach. All teachers expected on site at 8.30 and can leave at 4. I then have an average of 3 hours work to do when I get home. I also work one full day each weekend. I genuinely have nothing more to give.

My daughter is a primary school teacher and her hours are similar to yours.

I really think the reasons behind this are about getting more mums out to work. Schools open longer and less holidays offer free child care and allow both or single parents to work. Why have lots of mothers idle at home when they could be out working making the bosses richer?

Typical Tory tactic of setting one against the other. People will now be saying lazy teachers working 9 to 3 and all those holidays why should they get special treatment?
This Klopp fella, hes not bad is he?

Offline SP

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2013, 10:26:41 pm »
It'll save the government's childcare bill without having to pay teachers more.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2013, 10:30:57 pm »
It'll save the government's childcare bill without having to pay teachers more.

But there is a huge workforce implication for the government.

A large proportion of teachers are women (well over half).

Many of these teachers (and male teachers) rely of the flexible nature of their hours for child care themselves. (leave at 4 pick up kids, do work later etc).

Doing what Gove suggests would push really quite a large number of teachers out of the profession.

Could have huge implications in a way he hasn't considered.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline SP

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2013, 10:32:08 pm »
But there is a huge workforce implication for the government.

A large proportion of teachers are women (well over half).

Many of these teachers (and male teachers) rely of the flexible nature of their hours for child care themselves. (leave at 4 pick up kids, do work later etc).

Doing what Gove suggests would push really quite a large number of teachers out of the profession.

Could have huge implications in a way he hasn't considered.

All the better. Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove does not really like teachers - doesn't it show?


Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2013, 10:35:17 pm »
All the better. Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove does not really like teachers - doesn't it show?


:)

He likes Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove.

He wants to be leader of his party and he knows that putting the boot into teachers is a very good way to do it.

It's total self interest after the absolute disaster of his replacement for GCSEs.  Going for the easy target.  Sad.  Still, 5 year pay freeze, three of those years with a pension increase.... Fuck it, it's easy street.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline SP

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Re: Education Secretary Wants Longer Days In Schools
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2013, 10:35:53 pm »
I have had the dubious joys of being taught in the public and private sector. The major difference, besides the obvious class size and resource issues, is the breadth and quality of extra curricular activity. If the plan was to vastly increase the funding and provision of non-classroom time in school - then I could make a good case. Increasing the amount of sport and physical activity in that extra time would be a boon. But this is not what he is suggesting. Yet again, it is the price of everything, value of nothing philosophy writ large again.