Topic: The tide is turning (by john_mac)

[Rashid]

oh for the disarray of the meanest defence in the country and an attack containing Bergkamp at his peak!

Wenger has done a brilliant job btw, no doubt about it, interestingly many Arsenal fans were very much against his appointment, his insistance at carrying on with his role in Japan and many of his early moves. Before anybody says anything, I'm not for one second trying to compare him to Houllier, Houllier could not be compared to a manager who has twice delivered the double.

Some of the posts do dishearten me to an extent that I find it difficult to explain. The almost clockwork timing of the enigma that is "Joepunter" after a home defeat, however, is a joy to behold.

Come on Joe, the mild mannered janitor, reveal your true identity!

We hardly knew who GH was before he came to us thoigh John. Sometimes you have to trust the board. However, after 5 years something has to give surely.

[john_mac]

Rashid just for once I would like to read you say something original or constructive, something from your own mind and not from others.

However I doubt that I ever will, perhaps we will see a Harry Kewell comment now?

[hide5seek]

Jokepunter its great that you have at last come out of the closet and declared your species and may I be the first to congratulate you on being one very articulate (if negative) primate.

Do yer fancy a banana mate.....

 

[Rashid]

Rashid just for once I would like to read you say something original or constructive, something from your own mind and not from others.

However I doubt that I ever will, perhaps we will see a Harry Kewell comment now?

All my posts are my own John.

[HoullierGirl]

I fucking hate this.

[hide5seek]

I fucking hate this.

What? The in house fighting?

[Mottman]

"A lot of people just assume we have a god given right to win things."

We don't have a god given right to win anything, judging by most of the LFC sites that I have read recently, I really wonder if some of the people who either go to the matches or who are internet supporters understand the meaning of being a Liverpool supporter.

Maybe it's me?

The way I was taught to support the team was through thick and thin, for better or for worse and WE certainly DON'T call for our Managers head.

We are NOT Evertonians, we are NOT Man City supporters, we are NOT Tottenham Hotspur supporters, we are LIVERPUDLIANS!

This is probably one of the worst periods of time since I have been going to the matches. We will get over it, it may take weeks, months and possibly years at the end of the day whatever happens I know I'll still be around supporting the team I love.     

In the early 70's we used to pull in over 50,000 for most home games, we used to joke to each other and say "I wonder how many of these would be around IF we ever got relegated".  I'm not saying we are gonna get relegated, but I certainly question those who constantly berate or belittle most things the management / players do or don't do in these times of difficulty.   

Where were all these negative types when the reds won the treble, the FA Cup against Arsenal , the League Cup against Man Utd.

It hurts me to say this, but I think some Liverpool supporters are fickle they want INSTANT success. To me any success is earn't NOT brought.  They watch Sky and listen to the negativity cascaded from their mouth's at us and sit in awe as Man U, Arsenal etc (sometimes have a bit of luck to win games they shouldn't).

Supporting Liverpool is about supporting Liverpool, its not about 5 minutes of fame, its not about bemoaning players lack of form, its about being there, willing and cheering them on when they need it most.

Now is the time to show your support for Liverpool FC the chips are down. Are you ready for the challenge, or are we deluding ourselves and really are like all the other football clubs supporters?

I hope not?

Upwards and onwards to our destiny.

96 candles burn bright.

YNWA.



   


   

[Rushian]

"Wenger inherited a team in dissaray in November, he ended up finishing 4th."

Bruce Rioch was sacked before the start of the season on August 12th - Wenger made his first statement on August 15th:

"Arsenal are right up there as one of the biggest clubs, so it would be a very big challenge for me, probably the biggest of my career. English football has become high-profile in the last few years...I know the English game very well -- what the demands are, what the passion is and how desperate everyone is for success. Therefore the prospect of being the coach at a club like Arsenal is a very exciting one for me but I can't say too much about it because nothing has been officially confirmed yet."

which was the day after he signed Patrick Vieira and Remi Garde ... he stayed in Japan for 6 more weeks sorting out his personal stuff before appearing at Highbury in an "official capacity" for the first time in September.

Arsenal had finished joint fourth under Rioch the previous season with the best defensive record in the league (not surprising) but lacked midfield quality to feed Bergkamp and Wright.

[Bren1892]

Whether we think Houllier should stay or go, he deserves a lot more respect than he's getting from a lot of so-called supporters.  Whatever his shortcomings may be, he is doing what he thinks is best for the club.  While he's manager he should be getting our support, he deserves no less than that from us.

[4pool]

This revisionist history is a bit much.

Name the players Houllier bought as deffo walk into the first team?

Name those bought for the "future"?

Name those bought as cover?

Now quit f*cking whinging over the amount Houllier has spent on the squad.

Squad..does include players who won't start, might not sit the bench and yet Rashid..the unabashed Houlllier hater.. wants to argue over how crap Houlliers buys are.

It is pointless.

They are Liverpool players and should get our support.

They won't make the Galatico's side will they?

There isn't a player we have that can't play better, work harder, or improve. Including Owen, Gerrard, and everyone else.

They won't each rate 9 after each match, will they? But by God some posters will be on  the internet whinging about which one's were poor on the day. Glad you never tried your best and it didn't come off.

If Houllier "squad" buys are so crap then do a COMPLETE analysis of every other top side and lets really analyze them in total..not in a vacuum of just Houllier has bought.

And how much did Wenger pay for jug ears again? just as example..

And how many keepers has Fergie gone through since Smikes left..as an example.


Yeah both of them always buy players who are certain first teammers, next Premiership 11 players and  super Internationals to boot and hardly ever buy crap...

[4pool]

btw John..well stated in your two posts..

btw..mottman..if only more people would have had the same education of how to "support" that you were raised on..

[longtimered]

I must say as the week has gone on i feel more depressed-not less;partly cos of the media frenzy which smells blood.John asks where do we go from here -well i would propose a number of steps.
1.Sideline Phil Thompson since his main attribute must be his passion and  motivational skills which are not working.I found Sami's comments about music and quiet dressing rooms most revealing(linked to the body language on the pitch which illustrate the problem.
2.Replace PT with Sammy Lee
3.Otsemobor has been within the best 2/3 players in the games he has played.He doesnt come with a prior reputation as potential world beater just a local lad with promise and has shown the difference that pride and passion can bring.On the same principle a further 3/4 reserves(e.g Welsh,Whitbread) should be promoted to the first team squad.Sammy Lee's appointment will help them.
4.Players without passion and premiership effectiveness(e.gSmicer,Diao,Diouf) to be released from the squad and made available for transfer in the january window
5.The january window to be used to obtain 3 players with premiership experience:
-one striker(from Vassel,Defoe,Smith,Fowler,Jansen,Forssell,Gudjohnsen)
-one english midfielder(from Barton,Davies,Parker)
-one cental defender(unknown)
6.Houliers position to be reviewed at seasons end
I'm convinced the atmosphere and support at Anfield would improve if we were watching a team playing with pride and passion even if not competing in the top 3.The overreliance on a combination of foreign mercenaries and adjustment to english conditions  isnt a recipe for success in the tough times ahead.

[smicer07]

(from Vassel,Defoe,Smith,Fowler,Jansen,Forssell,Gudjohnsen)"

FOWLER? JANSEN??? Yeh, great!!

[longtimered]

just making the point there are options(given man city's debt and blackburn's number of strikers)

[Rushian]

man city are ripe for plucking - I'd prefer Anelka though

[mercury]

Notwithstanding all the heartbreak, this is not the time of the year to give up.  Certainly not the manager. 

This certainly is not a real crisis.  Real crisis is Leeds.  Our problem is playing below expectation - perhaps too far below, both in terms of desire and results.

Evaluation time is the end of season.   For now:

YWNA

[Jonathan Hall ☆☆☆☆☆☆]

i check back every so often to see if you've all still got your heads in the sand. some people seem to be seeing the light but several crazed die hards cling on.

kewell was, of course, an excellent signing - but you'd hardly have to be the football mastermind to know that.

Or maybe only when we play bad or lose, cos you're nowhere to be seen at other times, so why don't you come here when the results have been good.

One reason, cos you can't do anything but complain, whilst the rest of us try and get on with discussing every issue, not just the manager.

[Life]

Bloody hell...I'm late joining this, but seeing John Mac down has brought me down.

I don't know whether the manager has lost the dressing room, just simply lost his confidence or what - but something is obviously not right there.

I'd echo someone else's post above - we need to get our kids in instead of gutless players like Smicers, Diao, Heskey, Riise etc.

What is the point of the academy if we're going to play patently shite players when our main ones are injured instead of our kids.

No passion at that club - I'm not sure why not, but it's what we need.

[Coyney]

well done there john. I think if we loose two out of our next three games it will be difficult for him to survive. He is a great manager and will go down in history as that in the liverpool records. I stand by Gerard until the very end. Whether thats 10 days or 10 years and so should you all.

[pcw17]

very very true!!!

[FinnMacCool]

Here's me, swimming against the tide.

This is an excellent thread, even if a very sober and depressing one at times. Me, I was brought up in the old school of LFC supporting and that's where I still am. Maybe we're not as special as we thought we were, but this is no time to give up and no time to let the tide carry us out into a bay of mediocrity.

Because the worst thing of all is not if the manager or players are mediocre - the worst thing of all will be if we ourselves, the fans, if we turn out to be mediocre.

Didn't we stand on the old Kop, through the bad times as well as the glory days?

I'll give you an example of how things are changing: the team sheet being read out before the match. I remember how in the 1970s, any ground you went into, the crowd would barely listen to their own teamsheet until it came to their star players or their favourites, when there would be a big cheer for him. If they didn't rate one of their own, they might even give them a little boo.

Never at Anfield, though. It didn't matter whether you were Keegan or Dalglish or some kid just coming through from the reserves, everyone got the exact same brief cheer from the crowd. It was clinically done, and we were all part of it, and we were reinforcing the message that management was putting out: "There are no stars at Liverpool. We support the team, and the whole team, regardless. We are a big part of Liverpool FC and what you're going to get for the next 90 minutes is our vociferous and unconditional support for the greatest club in the world."

All that's gone now. We sound like any Premiership or Nationwide club these days, cheering the ones we like and not bothering too much with the rest. The only subliminal message we're giving out these days is: "We only sing when we're winning."

(At least we still cheer the opposition goalie - and so do Everton, of course. Our bluenosed neighbours have always shared that particular tradition.)

Some of the people who go to watch football see themsleves as "fans", and some see themselves as "paying customers". Which are we? When things aren't going so well, are we going to get behind the team, or are we going to ask for our money back?

I'll be getting behind the team, me. I won't call for the manager's head, not the players' heads, nor even for the heads of those so-called supporters who are performing worse than Biscan on a bad day. You're all Liverpool FC, and I'll remind you that Chairman Mao has never seen such a formidable display of Red Power. Let's get our act together.

If Igor's in central defence tomorrow, I'll give him the same short, sharp cheer I give the rest. And I'll be telling him to go on, lad, get stuck in, give it loads.

We can't stop the tide, but we can swim against it.