Author Topic: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League  (Read 13477 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« on: March 11, 2005, 11:17:28 am »
And then there were eight. Finally, and with some sense of disbelief, talk is starting to turn to Liverpool actually winning the Champions League –– no one necessarily expecting it, but offering a case of why not?

   Why not indeed? I certainly don't think there's less talent at Liverpool than there was at Porto last season. I don't think the club has an inferior manager, either. A bit of long-overdue luck, and who knows?

   "The best teams don't always win the Champions League," Jamie Carragher said following with win against Bayer Leverkusen, with more than a degree of truth –– and we are certainly not the best team in Europe right now. Not even close.

   However, it is equally true that to win it more than once, and in quick succession (four times in eight seasons, as an example –– and a completely random one, of course), is definitive proof you're the best. You can get lucky once, perhaps –– favourable draw, fortunate decisions, no injuries (and Alex Ferguson noted how fortunate United were on that score in 1999 –– not one major casualty).
   
   But the most accurate marker of greatness is consistency. Because even the flukiest team on earth cannot ride their luck indefinitely. Going back and doing it again, and again, and again, is what counts. 'One-offs' are great, but to become legendary takes more. Why do you think Ferguson couldn't retire a couple of years back, as previously planned? Because he knew that whatever people's opinions on who was the greatest, the record books show: Bob Paisley, European Cup Winner three times in nine years; Alex Ferguson, winner just once in twenty.

   At this stage of the team's development under Benitez, doing so just once after a 21-year wait would be truly astonishing. It seems almost surreal to be contemplating it.  (And I'm still not sure I'm actually contemplating it, or just contemplating  the act of contemplating it).

    When Liverpool reached the Quarter Finals in 2002, it was directly following the Treble, and with the side challenging Arsenal for that season's Premiership title. The club was riding the crest of a wave, and it came as no great surprise to get that far. The surprise was that it ended how it did.

    The mood of the fans leaving the Bay Arena two night's ago could not have been more in contrast with three years earlier. Again Bayer scored a late goal, but this time it was utterly meaningless. Rafa, fresh from getting the ales in, even had time to make a nod towards the defeat three years ago, by mirroring Houllier's removal of Didi Hamann –– arguably the most famous removal of a player in the club's history (its recent history, at least). This time it was with the job done, to save the German from picking up a suspension.

   Many of the broadsheets opted for the angle that on Wednesday night Liverpool met an incredibly poor German side, shorn of several key players. (Interestingly, many ignored the fact that Liverpool had a far longer list of absentees, with far more quality in their ranks of wounded and ineligible). Bayer were a side who had already beaten Bayern Munich 4-1 at home in the Bundesliga, and scored three goals in demolishing each of Real Madrid, Roma and Dynamo Kiev on their way to topping the 'Group of Death'.

   Suddenly they were whipping boys, simply because we whipped them.
   
   Benitez has led his threadbare collection of fit players to a stage in the competition where, after next week's delayed game between Inter and Porto, only seven other teams will remain. While no one will retain any credibility by suggesting the Reds are now a better side than Manchester United, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona and all the other top sides to have fallen before the Quarter Finals, the fact remains that they are all out, and the Reds are in the draw on Friday week. We may have had a slightly easier draw, but there was nothing lucky about the way the team performed over the two legs. Leverkusen's home record has been remarkable. There had to be a reason for that.

   To put the win against Leverkusen into perspective, an entire team of players –– goalkeeper, defenders, midfielders and strikers –– were missing and, given there were no suspensions, it was either through injury or ineligibility.

   Look at the list: Kirkland, Josemi, Pellegrino, Traore, Alonso, Kewell, Sinama-Pongolle, Mellor, Cissé and Morientes. (Okay, so it's a ten-man team). How many of those would have been in the 18-man squad –– the starting XI and seven subs allowed in Europe –– if they had been available to Rafa? Almost certainly all, with the possible exception of Mellor. Of the 18 Rafa did select, only half would have been certainties: Dudek, Carragher, Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard, Hamann, Baros and Luis Garcia. So we were literally at half-strength.

   Given the impressive Biscan (again enjoying a match in Europe) and Warnock (his best game for the club) would not be guaranteed a place in a European 18 if everyone was fit and eligible –– not to mention Smicer, Carson, Le Tallec, Mellor, and Nunez –– it goes to show that there is still a lot of quality and depth to the Liverpool squad (even if the side could use a couple more 'outstanding' first team players, and some of the squad players are playing for their futures). It also highlights how Benitez has never had the chance to select from anything remotely approaching his full squad. He won't yet know what his best side is, as he's not had the chance to select it.

   So while we're clearly still lacking the kind of consistency top clubs need, the performance in Germany showcased the quality the team can produce. Consistency will take time, not to mention the manager being able to pick his best players –– or at least able to hit upon a fairly settled side. But it's great to know that our highs can be so high –– as some teams just can't play the kind of football we displayed against Leverkusen. And it was no accident, either –– while we've been poor too often for anyone's liking, there have also been plenty of scintillating displays. The highs have been stellar.

   Fighting on three fronts with only half a squad has taken its toll on our league performances. But it will stand the club in good stead, as fringe players have emerged from the shadows. Where Benitez hasn't had the luxury of learning what his best team is, he has had the chance to find out how good his reserves are.

   Much has been made of the financial rewards of qualifying for next season's Champions League, but in exceeding expectations this season the club will have earned more than it planned for –– so missing out wouldn't be quite as disastrous in those terms. (Better to have one successful season than two poor-to-average ones –– after all, finishing 3rd and 4th can still mean Uefa Cup football if you lose the two-leg qualifying tie in August. You'll make pittance).

   Having said that, qualification remains a massive priority as a) the current players want to be there, b) it helps attract new players, and c) the club wants to be challenging for the top trophies. But even if qualification proves a bridge too far for a squad shorn of half of its senior pros, reaching the last eight helps repair some of the damage to the club's reputation over recent seasons, and helps put money in the coffers –– never a pleasant thing to concentrate on, but even the old school of fans know that it's better to have money than to lack it.


Pressure

   The role of underdogs could be one that suits us. Last year's Champions League is a case in point. There was Porto, and there was Monaco. (And two months later, there was Greece at Euro 2004). But the example I am thinking of relates to London.

   A strange thing happened when Arsenal met Chelsea. The west London club had bought their way to their best domestic season for 50 years, but Arsenal were having a remarkable year, and everyone felt that, for all their domestic domination, the impressive team Wenger had assembled had to win the European Cup for any of it to mean anything significant. Victory –– moral victory –– belonged to Arsenal before the game kicked off, as everyone knew they were the better team. Justice needed to be done.

   It wasn't that people felt that they would beat Chelsea –– although the bookmakers' odds were incredible –– but that they deserved it, on the grounds of being (as they were then seen) the Greatest Side in the World, Ever™. Also, that team will have had a sense of 'it's now or never' –– they must have known themselves that they could never play as well again. The hype, and the need to prove they were as good as they then appeared to be, swallowed them whole in the second leg.

   Arsenal became too desperate for that success, inasmuch as they took all the pressure onboard and allowed it to suffocate them. It is like this: you are going for a job interview, for a once-in-a-lifetime position you simply must get –– in fact, your professional reputation rests on it. Fail, and questions will be asked, no matter that everyone knows you are the best candidate for the job. Nervous as you sit and shuffle in the waiting room (in the case of a football match, the tunnel), with palms sweating, heart palpitating, and the colour draining from your face, you look across and see your rival for the job with a big smile on his or her face –– the picture of insouciance as they start to whistle a happy tune. He or she doesn't need the job, and is not expected to get it. And as a result, they will be able to give the best account of themselves. You know then that you're in trouble.   

   It happened to Liverpool in 1988. In that case it was the FA Cup final, to complete the double for the second time in three seasons. So stunning had been the team's season up to that point –– the football breathtaking, with the attacking play taken to a new level by the arrival of Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge –– that it would be the only fitting conclusion.

   Liverpool became such overwhelming favourites –– unbeatable, people suggested –– that Wimbledon, who were then a top-six side, were suddenly regarded by all and sundry as the non-league team they had been in the 1970s. Wimbledon won a large part of that match in the tunnel, before the game. You can call it mind games (the current vogue term), but it's just a simple psyching-out of your opponents. They showed they were 'up for it', and not overawed. And in doing so, they heaped more pressure on the superior team.

   Return to the 2003/04 Champions League Quarter Final. Chelsea were allowed to treat the occasion as though they were a non-league side there for a nice day out. Yes, they'd paid £200m to get there, but somehow –– and I still don't fully understand quite how they were allowed to get away with it (although part of it was down to the incredible hoodoo Arsenal had over them) –– they could ignore that immense expenditure, and pretend they'd exceeded all their hopes and ambitions already. What were in fact two fairly evenly-matched sides, while acknowledging Arsenal's slight superiority, suddenly became David vs Goliath. Once the stakes get so implausibly high for one side, while remaining relatively low for the other, there's trouble for the favourite. They are on a hiding to nothing.

   Pressure and expectation affect everything in football. Having won the tie, Chelsea were then favourites to beat Monaco, and as such, were soundly beaten. Pressure can cripple and petrify. I'd suggest that football is down to talent, unity, mentality and fitness. Mentality can often be the most crucial.

   The very best players can often deal with pressure, rise above it. But it only takes a few to succumb, and there's trouble. And it's not something that necessarily gets better with age and experience. In his final years as a Liverpool player, Alan Hansen had become not only the team captain but, with Dalglish and Souness no longer in the side, its senior pro. Suddenly there was an extra burden of responsibility, and he felt violently sick before each match, to the point where he hated playing. This was a legend who had played in four European Cup finals, but suddenly a league game at Plough Lane, or The Dell, was making his stomach do cartwheels. That is pressure –– and the kind of pressure a player's mind brings to bear on itself. Not just external pressure, but internal pressure. We've seen it with Steven Gerrard in recent weeks.
   
   If we were to face Chelsea in the next round, I would be almost certain of victory –– as strange as that might seem. Because no one would give us a cat in hell's chance. Just as last season Chelsea had lost to Arsenal twice in the league, and also in a domestic cup, we've been beaten three times by Mourinho's men already.

   But they will the ones who will be desperate to get through. They will have the expressionless face of a Russian billionaire staring down at them, and maybe the players will read too much into his neutral demeanour and his posse of stony-faced henchmen, and start worrying about those suspicious, capacious vats of cement, and some new supporting columns planned for the Hammersmith flyover.

   Sometimes it's easier to 'try hard' when you feel uninhibited, and don't care too much. Sometimes the pressure of having to try too hard results in the feeling of running though the aforementioned concrete, when it's half-set –– and you look like you're not trying at all. Numb with fear of failure, the game passes you by.

   There was a lot of pressure on Liverpool in the recent Carling Cup final in Cardiff, as it was seen as the club's best chance of silverware, and something to rescue a season that was in danger of being railroaded by Everton. Chelsea had bigger fish to fry, and could point to a comfortable lead at the top of the table –– why should they be worried about winning the Carling Cup when the bookies had already stopped taking bets on them being English champions? Surely that 'worthless' trophy was the preserve of modern Liverpool? They were still under pressure, to get that first trophy, but on that occasion so were Liverpool. A Champions League encounter would be different. It would be about Chelsea justifying that massive expenditure. For once, for the Liverpool players it would be about enjoying the occasion, and seeing how far the ride takes them.


Sideshow   

   An interesting sideshow has been the fact that Liverpool could win the Champions League and, if the club finishes fifth in the league, fail to qualify as holders. Unbelievable, but true.

   It would require FA intervention to request Liverpool's inclusion over Everton. It would be a brave (or criminally insane) organization that omitted a team who were Champions of Europe (and therefore, in winning a fifth title, entering a very select group of the continent's elite) in order to include Everton, who will have achieved nothing remotely 'Champion'-like.

   But of course, such dreams remain highly improbable –– and there is still more likelihood of pipping our stuttering neighbours once the pressure starts to heat up, and once we've played both our game in hand –– Blackburn at Anfield –– and the home leg of this season's Merseryside derby. Once those two home games are played, there will still be as many home games left as those away (four of each). We've been in this position before and succeeded. They will start to feel the pressure as soon as they start to believe they have it in the bag, and it's theirs for the losing. Up until now they've had nothing to lose. But once they start dreaming of next season –– and they will –– they may well come unstuck, if they haven't already started to. But I would gladly settle for fifth place if it meant an unforgettable night in Istanbul in May.

   Why will Liverpool win the Champions League? Why not...

© Paul Tomkins 2005

The website for Golden Past, Red Future –– www.paultomkins.com –– has been updated this week, with release date and purchasing details listed, as well as the price and how much it will cost to receive a copy anywhere in the world. There is also an image of the finalized cover. Also, a small section of the above article will appear in the book, as part of the review of the club's Champions League campaign.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 11:37:39 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2005, 11:46:22 am »
I'm not sure we will, using Porto/Monaco as an example last year may be the media's mistake. They were the exception that proved the rule.
However, we will be underdogs throughout, and I really hope that a little consistency appears, enabling us if anything to at least fight for the final, even if we don't get it.


but as ever an excellent piece, just the right length for a large coffee!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 11:50:08 am by hinesy »
Yep.

Offline Red Lozza

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2005, 12:06:46 pm »
Great read that, Paul.

But I would gladly settle for fifth place if it meant an unforgettable night in Istanbul in May.

That's a good point. I'm desperate for us to re-qualify for the Champions League, but what's the point of qualifying for it if you're not going to do anything once you're there?

We've already had some memorable nights in the CL, we're in the last eight and as last year's competition showed, once you're in the quarters anything can happen. At the very least, we're all looking forward to March/April in a way that Arsenal and ManU supporters aren't.  :D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 12:08:55 pm by Red Lozza »

Offline GarBo

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2005, 12:09:58 pm »
Quote
But I would gladly settle for fifth place if it meant an unforgettable night in Istanbul in May.

Me too because wouldnt an unforgettable night entail actually winning it and therefore league placing wont come into it??!!  :)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2005, 12:31:08 pm »
However, we will be underdogs throughout, and I really hope that a little consistency appears, enabling us if anything to at least fight for the final, even if we don't get it.


That's all I realistically expect. With Millwall making the FA Cup final, 2004 really was the year of the underdog.

We're rank outsiders, but anything can happen in a knock-out competition.

Offline Red Squiggle

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2005, 12:37:04 pm »
Great post, thinking that your book might be a decent purchase once I've got bloody academic reading out of the way.

See you May the 25th in Istanbul

Offline Byrnee

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2005, 12:37:24 pm »
Another top read Paul - I expect this will be included in the 'Road to Istanbul' section, the moment when we started to truly dream about winning it!

Well, you never know.

I'm trying hard NOT to dream at the moment. I suppose most of us are. And we're probably all failing.

I can't help but think about the glory of this Liverpool side, a team laughed at, sneered at, dismissed, looked over, ignored by the media and opposition fans in favour of the unstoppable hype machine (who'd have thought, 3 years ago, that I'd be speaking of Chelsea, not United?!) as well as Arsenal - the perennial underachievers in Europe, and of course the Mancs - so desperate to emulate that 'Great Night In 1999'
Most of all, as much as it would be glorious to ram the taunts down their throats,  it wouldn't be about that. It would be about Liverpool Football Club, and only Liverpool Football Club. FIVE TIMES WINNERS of the European Cup.

It would be fantastic, wonderful, unbelievable if we did it.

And therein lies the problem. It WOULD be fantastic, but so much so that we have to remember that it's likely to remain a fantasy, lest we get ourselves all worked up for nothing again. During the game, after the final whistle, reading match reports, you can't help but think - what if? A few days later the realism kicks in and you have to calm down.

But do we? I mean, aside from a tight struggle for fourth, a disappointing exit to Burnley in the Cup, and of course the heartbreak in Cardiff, we don't have a lot to get excited about this season. I am excited - don't get me wrong - about Benitez (without a shadow of a doubt the right man for the job) about our future and about the potential we have.

But in truth, I've been excited about potential since Houllier was appointed, or even since our Coca-Cola Cup triumph in 1995. I remember reading a comment from Stan Collymore whilst heading to Wembley in 96, where he stated his plan to build on the success of the winning the League Cup by winning the FA Cup in 96, the League in 97 and the European Cup in 98 (and the World Club Cup in 99!). Not quite Stan, not quite.

From then on I've looked forward to the return to glorious days I was too young to enjoy. They've never quite materialised. Sure, we've had some great games, glorious games, the treble year, bright young players and new managers, but with promises that sadly, they would fail to fulfill.

So it's Deja Vu for me. Waiting to see where we'll finish, hoping for qualification for the Champions League - hoping for that essential summer signing, that investment from a reputable source and the dream that we will win the fucking League before I'm 30!

Who knows? So whilst half of me tries to stay grounded and realistic (read: pessimistic) the other half of me will glory in this time. Now, here. We're one of two English clubs in Europe's top competition.

We've progressed further than the Mancs for the first time in the Champions League.

If we avoid further injuries and get some keys players back (God, I pray that Alonso is amongst them). If we start to get given a fucking penalty every now and then without a defender having to machine-gun down our player to convince the ref, if we play as well as we did against Leverkusen, then why not?

We can beat anyone, though there are undoubtedly stronger sides left. If it does come to the final, it's one game. 90 (+) minutes.

Anything can happen.


'Liverpool was made for me and I was made for Liverpool.'
Bill Shankly


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Offline Emlyn_6

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2005, 12:44:58 pm »
they crtainly have the determination to win this competition
If you hate Evertonians clap your hands (clap clap)
If you hate Evertonians clap your hands (clap clap)
If you hate Evertonians, hate Evertonians If you hate Evertonians clap your hands (clap clap clap clap clap clap...........)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2005, 12:49:15 pm »
Yup, Byrnee - the return of Alonso, if it happens, could be crucial. A shame it's only an outside chance. Luckily we've got no suspensions so far, although that means all the players on yellows could all miss crucial games if they pick up one more...

Offline didi

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 12:56:12 pm »
think all this talk off we might win it, people will satrt to think we will and then if we dont out it will hurt even more
lets just see what happens

Offline Code72

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 01:18:28 pm »
Yup, Byrnee - the return of Alonso, if it happens, could be crucial. A shame it's only an outside chance. Luckily we've got no suspensions so far, although that means all the players on yellows could all miss crucial games if they pick up one more...

What is this about it`s not certain Alonso will return??
He will return before the Spurs match, I`m certain of it....

Offline HIRA

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 01:27:11 pm »
Anything can happen, but I will start getting really excited if we reach the semis.
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Offline kev78

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 01:44:44 pm »
Another great read Paul, thanks. Why not us indeed? There are a number of teams left in the competition that I'm sure we would fancy our chances of beating in the next round. Probably best to avoid Milan and possibly Juventus and Bayern although I haven't seen too much of either of those two this season. I agree with your sentiments on a game against Chelsea. I would be pretty confident of beating them this time as well.

Hopefully we'll have a few more players back and fit before the next round as well.

Looking forward to when your book comes out!

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2005, 01:53:23 pm »
I'm convinced!

Offline rob1966

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2005, 02:20:06 pm »
Pub lunch today, so I copied and pasted this into word, only came out at 5 pages !! ;D

You are right Paul, there is no expectation on us to win the Champs Lge this season, getting to the quarters is a big bonus to the vast majority of fans this season.There is no pressure on us,we are the under-dogs and everyone's favourites to go out, yet we have shown that in Europe we have no need to fear anyone. Over 2 legs, no-one has beaten us in this season's campaign, and the fact that we have comprehensively beaten Monaco, Olympiakos and Bayer Leverkusen should have made the rest sit up and take notice.This is knock-out football, nothing is guaranteed.

Ex-pro's, the likes of Alan Kennedy and Greame Sharpe give me a laugh, falling for the media bullshit.They should know better than anyone about the unpredictability of Cup football.They both work on a local nightly footie show on Century Radio, Sharpe has been doing the usual  "Well, Liverpool got the easy draw etc etc" (Yeah, Real Madrid and Roma pissed all over them, didn't they ?), which I would expect, and Kennedy blindly goes along with it,swallowing the media's crap,whilst failing to see Bayer's impressive record this season in the Champs Lge.
This lack of others understanding/taking us seriously could prove to be beneficial, especially if players take the view-point of Ronaldhino that English teams are easy to get past.

If any of them think drawing Liverpool in the quarters is the easiest tie, they will be in for a bit of a surprise, as Roma and Barcelona were in 2001.
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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2005, 02:32:19 pm »
We have dreams to dream,
and songs to sing.
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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2005, 03:40:07 pm »
great article paulo!

but even the optimist in me says that we won't get passed the next round  :-\ :butt... but if it came to an unforgettable night in istanbul- i'd be watching that tv with intent- so what if the final is smack bang in the middle of my GCSE's?! LFC will have the best chance of making it 18:5 in a long time...
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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2005, 04:16:19 pm »
I'm trying not to get my hopes up (especially after being utterly convinced we were going to Hampden Park in 2002) but it is very difficult to get Istanbul out of my mind.

Play us down, write us off, underestimate us but any of the last 8 could conceivably win this tournament and we might have a better chance than you think if our opponents do just that.

Also, and even though I've been critical at times of the atmospheres, as we arrive onto the big stage of the Champions League quarter finals we have one thing, one advantage that none of the other teams have - Anfield! Never underestimate how much our spiritual home can give us if things fall into place.

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2005, 05:13:21 pm »
I hate all this nonsense "the best teams don't win the CL". Its completely disengenuous to Porto who were an excellent team last year. They won all domestic competitions in Portugal and then the CL in Europe. Just because they are not a big name team, with big name players, everyone disses them. However, Porto were superb last year and won the CL convincingly. Also, most of their key players are now plying their trade at Barca and Chelsea, 2 teams widely tipped to win the big cup, prior to their meeting and subsequent departure by Barca from the comp. Still, eve with their manager gone and the heart of the team ripped out, they are still competitive. People should give them their due and stop suggesting their win was anyting but deserved. The best teams DO win the CL, year in and year out. What doesn't happen year in and year out is the most popular or media hyped team undeservingly swagger to victory, it is almost always a hard fought path to victory.
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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2005, 05:36:39 pm »
I hate all this nonsense "the best teams don't win the CL". Its completely disengenuous to Porto who were an excellent team last year.


I'm not saying they didn't deserve it. But cup competitions are never a fair assessment of one season's form, as much of it depends on who you get drawn against. They deserved to win it, but it doesn't therefore mean they were the best team.

A domestic league is the only truly fair test of quality, as you play every other team twice, once home, once away. With the cup, you could have a flu bug that week, and lose all your best players, and go out. In the league you'd have another 37 games. That's why winning the European Cup time and time again proves the quality, as it means you've faced different teams in different circumstances.

The best team always wins the league, but cups also rely on luck. For example, if we'd drawn Milan we'd most likely be out. We're not, so let's enjoy it. But does that mean we're better than Man United and Arsenal as we got further? By your logic, it does. Alas, we're not there ... yet.

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2005, 06:37:19 pm »
Paul,

I just have to give it to you the way you sway my opinion (except for the '2 points gained on Everton' last week).  I also enjoy the way you recount past events, going back to the '88 FA Cup Final, re-living all the emotions and details from back then....

Surely, if I ever manage to get back to England (ideally, a univesity job in the North West and a Season Ticket to Anfield, or wherever LFC will be playing), I would like to buy you a drink.

Have a nice week-end Dawg.

Offline Alf

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2005, 06:50:43 pm »
IMHO we've done fantastically well to make the last 8 of this years competition especially when you consider we had eight players injured and two more cup tied on Wednesday night.

Underdogs have won the competition in the past I remember a Karl Heinz Riedle inspired Borussia Dortmund beating Juventus in 97 and Porto last season. Can Liverpool win the Champions League this season?  why not.

Offline Vinay

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2005, 06:55:38 pm »
IMHO we've done fantastically well to make the last 8 of this years competition especially when you consider we had eight players injured and two more cup tied on Wednesday night.

Underdogs have won the competition in the past I remember a Karl Heinz Riedle inspired Borussia Dortmund beating Juventus in 97 and Porto last season. Can Liverpool win the Champions League this season?  why not.

Exactly, Why Not - especially given Tomkins' piece up there.  I recall more than the above 2 underdogs: Aston Villa, Steua Bucharest, Hamburg, etc..., etc....

Offline Zappa

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2005, 06:55:59 pm »
They rave on about Chelsea and consider us makeweights....

Let them

Three times this season we've had their measure and three times we've let them of the hook.

There are no easy games in europe and on song no-one can beat us.

Realistically we're not ready yet, but stranger things have happened.
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2005, 06:58:02 pm »
IMHO we've done fantastically well to make the last 8 of this years competition especially when you consider we had eight players injured and two more cup tied on Wednesday night.


Precisely. You only have to think of next season- Xabi back, Morientes and Cisse on song, and the inevitable summer strengthening- to lick your lips at the prospect.

Mind you, don't think we'll qualify, but there you go...  ;)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2005, 07:02:57 pm »
Three times this season we've had their measure and three times we've let them of the hook.


Two of those games would have been radically different but for the refs not giving blatant penalties. 2-0 up at Cardiff? Game over. 1-0 up at Anfield? We'd have drawn at worst.


Surely, if I ever manage to get back to England (ideally, a univesity job in the North West and a Season Ticket to Anfield, or wherever LFC will be playing), I would like to buy you a drink.


 :wave

Offline BayerMax0404

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2005, 07:20:52 pm »
Liverpool will win the CXhampionsleague, because they beat Bayer Leverkusen!
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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2005, 07:31:42 pm »
Liverpool will win the CXhampionsleague, because they beat Bayer Leverkusen!


 ;D  :wave

Offline kopite4eva

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2005, 12:14:50 am »
Paul, nice read.

It was great to get carried away on the thoughts of Istanbul and winning number 5 in the fun and songs of the bayarena. The songs were sung with such belief by the fans around us that it was infectious, it is nice to reflect on those moments as we sit proudly in the last eight.

If we progress no further, then I believe on that night we saw a glimpse of the future of Liverpool FC. Not so much the performance, or necessarily the players but as Rafa likes to tell us we had the "mentality" and I include the fans inside the ground. The pre-match banter and seeing who did get a ticket when you hadn't seen them this season was replaced with optimism that we could actually win the European Cup.

This game was a tipping point in Liverpools season, when we had the nonchalance to boo when Dudek saved because we wanted Quo to boom out around the bayarena, when the songs of "we've won it four times" became "we'll win it five times", when the Rafa  song became a lucky song because Rafa visited a bar the night before, when Gerrard found his form, when Warnock became a man, when the Liverpool defenders were disappointed to let in a late goal but it didn't matter, when we believed we were the greatest football team.

This season may be too soon, but let's enjoy the ride and see where it takes us. If we don't win the champions league this season I won't let my head go down like it did in Leverkusen 3 years ago, because on Wednesday night I saw a glimpse of the glory nights again and enjoyed a game from start to finish for the first time in a long time.

Can we win it? We'll be there when you do.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2005, 12:17:05 am by kopite4eva »
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2005, 12:17:15 am »
Istanbul?
Not Comstantinople?
Why did Constantinople get the works?

Offline Garstonite

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2005, 03:25:49 pm »
Fabulous post, PT. In a dream world...

AC Milan - Chelsea
Juventus - Lyon
PSV - Liverpool (note: PSV first)
Porto (worse than Inter) - Munich

Semi finals...

Chelsea - Juve
Porto - Liverpool

Chelsea 0 - 8 Liverpool in the final

 :thumbup

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2005, 03:46:17 pm »
Chelsea 0 - 8 Liverpool in the final

 :thumbup


 ;D

Offline JMarsh

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2005, 05:06:01 pm »
I cannot discuss the possibility of us reaching the final as I cannot sleep at night, otherwise.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2005, 07:58:53 pm »
what would happen, in terms of champs league qulification, if we were to finish runers-up?
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Offline BazC

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2005, 08:54:39 pm »

Chelsea 0 - 8 Liverpool in the final

 :thumbup

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Offline Dermot

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2005, 02:31:14 am »
Outstanding read  :wave :wave
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Offline jkellyie

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2005, 01:50:32 am »
An  excellent read as always. As an eternal Liverpool FC optimist, I always believe that we can do it. Regardless of who we play or what competition we are in. Rafa has given me an increased sense of optimism.

Offline jfpower

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2005, 06:30:07 am »
I am pleased that the media continues to write us off, and not give us credit for beating the team which put 3 past RM.

Hopefully whoever we draw on Friday will believe the media reports and write us off. And then we can all bow down and worship the prophet - Pau Tomkins.

Seriously, I am so pleased that we have gotten so far- considering all the injuries. And as long as we are still in - I can still dream of no. 5!

Offline cowtownred

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2005, 12:09:01 pm »
Good read Paul.

Agree entirely with the views expressed by Kopite4eva.

Offline Slugworth

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Re: Why Liverpool Will Win The Champions League
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2005, 01:52:27 pm »
Your fame knows no boundaries PT ;D You have now been published on Footy365

http://www.football365.com/opinion/f365_opinion/story_146303.shtml

Although i think ShanklyGates being called brilliant over RAWK was a bit out of order!  ;)
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