Author Topic: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims  (Read 7747 times)

Offline Rush 82

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Offline CallumLFC

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #81 on: June 9, 2017, 09:30:56 am »
An Islamic imam has suggested the Saudi Arabian team refused to take part in a minute's silence for the London terror victims because they believe 'it is not a sin for a Muslim to kill a non-believer'.
Sheikh Mohammad Tawhidi says it is a 'lie' to say the Muslim culture does not remember the dead with a moment of silence, and instead argues the football team did not partake in the mourning because they stand with the jihadist men.
'They did not stop for a moment of silence because according to Wahhabi Islam - which governs Saudi Arabia - it is not wrong or a sin for a Muslim to kill a non-Muslim,'
'Their response suggests that within Muslim culture they don't remember the dead with a moment of silence. This is a lie.'
Sheikh Tawhidi says under Islam Sharia law it is not 'wrong' or a 'sin' for a Muslim to kill a non-Muslim.
'In their eyes the attackers are martyrs who are going to paradise. And if they stand for a minute of silence they are against their Muslim brothers who fought for jihad and fought the 'infidels',' he said.
Sheikh Tawidi also added the team would have been 'ridiculed' back home if they had commemorated the victims of the London terrorist attack.
But this may not be the view of every player within the Saudi team, he pointed out.
Shia imam Sheikh Mohammad Tawhidi told Daily Mail Australia the Saudi Arabian team's decision not to participate in the minute of silence was not about the minute itself, but about the people who were being mourned.
'[Muslims] regularly mourn over a person if a leader dies or if there is an attack of some kind,' he said.
He noted this may not be the personal view of every player within the team, but they would have been 'ridiculed' in Saudi Arabia had they commemorated the victims of the London terrorist attack.

Offline kingz

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #82 on: June 9, 2017, 09:39:20 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/08/saudi-arabia-footballers-ignore-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims

Awkward.

Not Awkward at all .. You will not see pictures of two Saudi teams doing the moment of silent together, they never did even after the King death .. This game Al-Ahli vs Barca was in Doha,  the Ahli players were instructed by the team officials to do it .. The national team officials tho were stupid they didn't think not participating is disrespectful .. Its embarrassing really they should know better..

Offline kingz

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #83 on: June 9, 2017, 10:21:33 am »
An Islamic imam has suggested the Saudi Arabian team refused to take part in a minute's silence for the London terror victims because they believe 'it is not a sin for a Muslim to kill a non-believer'.



Man this is far from the truth .. If a Muslim killed a non believer in Saudi Arabia he will be sentenced to death.. I am a Muslim and if a Muslim did something wrong to a non believer I will stand by him against the Muslim..

https://youtu.be/fNZ1RCite-c

Offline Rush 82

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #84 on: June 9, 2017, 10:28:43 am »
An Islamic imam has suggested the Saudi Arabian team ...snip

Shia imam.... snip
Islamic politics at play - take with large barrel of salt

Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #85 on: June 9, 2017, 12:49:51 pm »
Politics and sport shouldn't mix.

Olympics comes around and we're told politics should not be part of sport.

While we are sympathetic to those killed by terrorism, wherever that is, imho it should be kept out of sport. This is what happens when it isn't kept out.

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Offline HarryLabrador

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #86 on: June 9, 2017, 12:53:57 pm »
Politics and sport shouldn't mix.

Olympics comes around and we're told politics should not be part of sport.

While we are sympathetic to those killed by terrorism, wherever that is, imho it should be kept out of sport. This is what happens when it isn't kept out.


For crying out loud!!! I know you voted for Trump but this is beyond the pale.
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #87 on: June 9, 2017, 01:54:57 pm »
For crying out loud!!! I know you voted for Trump but this is beyond the pale.

So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS outside the UK?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #88 on: June 9, 2017, 01:58:54 pm »
So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?

The issue is that Australians were killed, Australians were playing and the Australians requested a minutes silence. I think that's all perfectly reasonable, and I say that as someone who wishes there was more attention given to all terrorist attacks around the world, not just the ones in Western countries.

Re: MoSs for France attacks, they played England at Wembley straight after the Nov 15 Paris attacks and we gave them a minute silence, sang Le Marseillais and had tricolors all over the place.

Offline ggcc14

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #89 on: June 9, 2017, 01:59:12 pm »
So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS outside the UK?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?
Truely bizarre.

The point isn't about how many minutes silence there are around the world, it's about acknowledging one when you are asked to. it would have been like the Ajax players ignoring it and just warming up while the Utd players did in the Europa league final. Seems like you are defending them too, even though they have come out and apologised for it, knowing they are in the wrong. strange.
« Last Edit: June 9, 2017, 02:01:07 pm by ggcc14 »
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Offline SP

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #90 on: June 9, 2017, 01:59:27 pm »
So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS outside the UK?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?

For the French attacks:

Nationally:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-victims-of-the-paris-terrorist-attacks


And at every league football match that weekend. 
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/paris-attacks-football-league-to-hold-a-minutes-silence-as-sporting-world-pays-tribute-to-victims-a6734416.html

It was a big deal.

Offline SP

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #91 on: June 9, 2017, 02:03:16 pm »
So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS outside the UK?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?

US MoS:

http://www.talkingbaws.com/2016/06/orlando-city-pay-brilliant-tribute-to-victims-of-nightclub-shooting/

Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #92 on: June 9, 2017, 02:20:36 pm »
Oh here they come...

Random links to some MoS. Of course i asked for them knowing what I would get. :P


And the point being missed, politics and sport should be separate.

Australia asked for one. One they shouldn't have, imho,  for an international match.

If the country wanted to observe a Mos, or have a memorial set up and the accompanying televised speeches, etc, that would be fine.

This is what happens when another Country doesn't share your views.

The outrage is predictable. Same as when some US athletes decided not to stand for the US National Anthem played before a game. There's no Law requiring it. There's no law requiring others observe a MoS. Out of respect you make an individual choice. And in the video of the Aus v SA match you can see people walking down the aisle. Why didn't they stop an observe the MoS?

Now Australia knew that Saudi Arabia weren't going to observe the MoS. They went ahead with it anyway.
Could they have asked for a minutes applause during the match at a certain minute as an alternative? Could they have done it at halftime with the teams in the changing rooms because they knew the Saudi's weren't going to participate? Is the only way to do a MoS before the match starts?
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Offline Rush 82

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #93 on: June 9, 2017, 02:31:35 pm »
Oh here they come...

Random links to some MoS. Of course i asked for them knowing what I would get. :P

And the point being missed, politics and sport should be separate.

Australia asked for one. One they shouldn't have, imho,  for an international match.

If the country wanted to observe a Mos, or have a memorial set up and the accompanying televised speeches, etc, that would be fine.

This is what happens when another Country doesn't share your views.

The outrage is predictable. Same as when some US athletes decided not to stand for the US National Anthem played before a game. There's no Law requiring it. There's no law requiring others observe a MoS. Out of respect you make an individual choice. And in the video of the Aus v SA match you can see people walking down the aisle. Why didn't they stop an observe the MoS?

Now Australia knew that Saudi Arabia weren't going to observe the MoS. They went ahead with it anyway.
Could they have asked for a minutes applause during the match at a certain minute as an alternative? Could they have done it at halftime with the teams in the changing rooms because they knew the Saudi's weren't going to participate? Is the only way to do a MoS before the match starts?
Bugger that.

You can bet the Saudi's don't give a shit about what any other country is going to do.

South Africa was banned from sport for years for their politics - and rightly so.

Why should sport be exempt from politics?

« Last Edit: June 9, 2017, 02:36:30 pm by Rush 82 »

Offline SP

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #94 on: June 9, 2017, 02:33:41 pm »
Moscow 1980 was when politics and sports really got entwined.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #95 on: June 9, 2017, 02:36:03 pm »
Politics and sport shouldn't mix.

Olympics comes around and we're told politics should not be part of sport.

While we are sympathetic to those killed by terrorism, wherever that is, imho it should be kept out of sport. This is what happens when it isn't kept out.

Holding a minutes silence for people dying has got fuck all to do with politics.. It's just being respectful.
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Offline mallin9

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #96 on: June 9, 2017, 02:59:52 pm »
So you were in the voting booth i didn't go to, eh.

Let me ask you this, with other terrorists acts in the UK how many were observed by MoS outside the UK?

There have been Americans killed or injured in recent UK attacks, no MoS at any sporting events in the USA that I recall.

When attacks happened in France and Brits killed or injured there, how many MoS at matches were there in the UK?

Sorry to veer off topic here.........but nobody needed to be in the voting booth with you to know your stance on Trump, just needed to be on RAWK in the months leading up to the election, you were one of the scariest Trump supporters going because otherwise (and feel free to tell me to F. O. with my condescension) you always seemed like a very decent poster, at the very least you've shown ability to use logic and deductive reasoning many times.  Then Donald came along with his messages of love, unity and mature discourse and RAWK was treated to your politics "Look, I know he's full of shit and seems unhinged, but....."  You were willing to put up with the con because of his deals and strength......you came across as someone who sees him for the con man he is, and yet who identifies with his stump-speech values.  Something that I think is further reflected in your VERY mature "they don't show respeck so why should we?  Why should anyone show respect?" hot take up above.  We get it, empathy is dead to you.

David Squires called you a fox FYI


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Offline Brian Blessed

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #97 on: June 9, 2017, 03:13:03 pm »



And the point being missed, politics and sport should be separate.
I assume when you attend a sporting event in the US and the national anthem is played, you don't stand?

Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #98 on: June 9, 2017, 03:24:27 pm »
Sorry to veer off topic here.........but nobody needed to be in the voting booth with you to know your stance on Trump, just needed to be on RAWK in the months leading up to the election, you were one of the scariest Trump supporters going because otherwise (and feel free to tell me to F. O. with my condescension) you always seemed like a very decent poster, at the very least you've shown ability to use logic and deductive reasoning many times.  Then Donald came along with his messages of love, unity and mature discourse and RAWK was treated to your politics "Look, I know he's full of shit and seems unhinged, but....."  You were willing to put up with the con because of his deals and strength......you came across as someone who sees him for the con man he is, and yet who identifies with his stump-speech values.  Something that I think is further reflected in your VERY mature "they don't show respeck so why should we?  Why should anyone show respect?" hot take up above.  We get it, empathy is dead to you.

David Squires called you a fox FYI


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Well here's the FO part.

Go back into the thread before the election and I can't tell you how many times I mentioned i'm a Democrat, come from a family of Democrats, Campaigned for Democrats, and had an Uncle serve for 3 terms in the State legislature in Indiana.

My problem was with Hillary. My problem was I could see she wasn't going to be elected ( because I travel for work and could gauge things). But hey, let's follow the media and their polls.  ::)

After the election my real problem was the Democratic party left it's base. And my problem was the Democratic Party had lost 1,000 seats and State governorships nationwide. Had complete control of both the Senate and House when President Obama was elected initially and all they could do is worry about Trump after 8 years of losing elections and losing both houses of Congress. My fear is that the Democratic Party doesn't have a clue how to gain that back -- and that is what I posted tons of times about.

Sorry not to kiss some perceived ass and that makes me a Trump supporter. It's the old--look over there diversion ( Trump, Russians, and now Comey) when the real problem is within the Party.

I refuse to post about American politics for the very reason idiots like you want to pigeon hole someone because they don't blindly follow some mantra.

But do carry on.. ::) ::) ::)
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Offline nicholasanthony

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #99 on: June 9, 2017, 04:24:04 pm »
politics and sport should be separate.
Why? Sport is the culture in Australia. We asked people to show respect and condolences to 2 Australian's killed during the week and some people couldn't even pretend. Everything else is bullshit.

Offline mallin9

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #100 on: June 9, 2017, 04:35:26 pm »
RE: 4pool

Is your assertion that in 8 years of Obama all the democrats accomplished was to fritter away seats and panic over Trump?  Follow-up question...
Do you think that the GOP spent 8 years effectively opposing Obama with their dazzling brilliance or do you think we as a country not-so-secretly LOVE TO RACISM BRO?  Kenny Powers!!!!!
Do you think the GOP policies are popular, or do you think the message of "I will NOT serve the black feller in the white house" resonated more with voters amongst whom you were traveling? 
Do you think the 2016 election swung more on Hillary's credentials as a politician, or uneducated whites voting en masse against what they were told was 4 more years of Obama?

Apologies for projecting on you a trump vote, I appreciate you responding and explaining the position that you are not able to turn a blind eye to the democrats' own faults.  I apologize for trying to put words/actions at your doorstep.  My issue is that you often seem to use your logic, experience and worldliness to arrive at:  Hillary and the Democrats are a bigger mess than Donald "foreign agent" drumpf and the GOP currently rolling back our financial, environmental, and social support systems. 

The democratic party failed spectacularly to keep it's house in order and emphatically became the party of the urban area, a massive strategic blunder---and Hillary was a bad candidate, unbelievably tone deaf from the Dems---- but do you not think when foreign spy services are coordinating with your opponent it is a bit trickier to win an election?  Genuine question- do you think the 2016 election had much in common with the experiences in politics of someone like your uncle?

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #101 on: June 9, 2017, 05:04:08 pm »
RE: 4pool

Is your assertion that in 8 years of Obama all the democrats accomplished was to fritter away seats and panic over Trump?  Follow-up question...
Do you think that the GOP spent 8 years effectively opposing Obama with their dazzling brilliance or do you think we as a country not-so-secretly LOVE TO RACISM BRO?  Kenny Powers!!!!!
Do you think the GOP policies are popular, or do you think the message of "I will NOT serve the black feller in the white house" resonated more with voters amongst whom you were traveling? 
Do you think the 2016 election swung more on Hillary's credentials as a politician, or uneducated whites voting en masse against what they were told was 4 more years of Obama?

Apologies for projecting on you a trump vote, I appreciate you responding and explaining the position that you are not able to turn a blind eye to the democrats' own faults.  I apologize for trying to put words/actions at your doorstep.  My issue is that you often seem to use your logic, experience and worldliness to arrive at:  Hillary and the Democrats are a bigger mess than Donald "foreign agent" drumpf and the GOP currently rolling back our financial, environmental, and social support systems. 

The democratic party failed spectacularly to keep it's house in order and emphatically became the party of the urban area, a massive strategic blunder---and Hillary was a bad candidate, unbelievably tone deaf from the Dems---- but do you not think when foreign spy services are coordinating with your opponent it is a bit trickier to win an election?  Genuine question- do you think the 2016 election had much in common with the experiences in politics of someone like your uncle?

Thank you again for taking the time to respond.

You won't get much of a response.

I'm not here to debate the failings of the Democratic party. I'm old and seen many elections. Swings and roundabouts of whom is in power, who tries to obstruct, nothing new there. None of that is relative to the last election. Both parties claim the other one obstructs and will do during your lifetime.

In the post election thread I offered my views as to how the Dems might go about trying to regain power. Go read those.
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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #102 on: June 9, 2017, 05:17:41 pm »
There is a scenario whereby a minute silence does make them legitimate targets for Isis. It would be seen as them choosing sides, could it be that they were worried about their own safety when they go back home.
Or maybe they are just daft ignorant disrespectful c*nts.

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #103 on: June 9, 2017, 05:43:32 pm »
I'm not here to debate the failings of the Democratic party. I'm old and seen many elections. Swings and roundabouts of whom is in power, who tries to obstruct, nothing new there. None of that is relative to the last election. Both parties claim the other one obstructs and will do during your lifetime.


So Donald is nothing new then?  This is all same old, same old?.....that's interesting!

Here I was thinking it was a bit odd that he is obstructing justice and abusing power so brazenly.  I thought it odd that longstanding allies from around the globe find it necessary to openly question America's role as a defender of free speech, democracy and human rights.  I thought it was odd that Donald bragged about assaulting women, entering teenage girls' changing rooms and talked about how he could murder a citizen of our country in broad daylight and get away with it.  I thought it was odd that a US presidential nominee refused to accept the results of a free and open election.  I found it odd that a presidential candidate could be openly off his fucking head on cocaine at debates and public speeches (unproven, but.....come on.  It was like the scene from the subliminal HBO '7 Days in Hell';  "he appears to be bleeding......from his nose...")  I found it odd that a president-elect held a press conference to announce that he was definitely definitely stepping away from his businesses while surrounded with hundreds of manila folders that nobody was allowed to look at or read.  I found it odd that several staffers on a US presidential campaign were in the employ of hostile foreign governments.  I found it odd that Donald invited Russian spies into the oval office and barred the rest of the world's media.  And on and on and on.......  Those felt like political firsts.  I'm glad to hear that this is all nothing new.

Comrade 4pool I bow to your superior experience.  Clearly the sky is not blue
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Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #104 on: June 9, 2017, 05:56:17 pm »
Aren't there a couple of American politics threads over in News and Current Affairs where you two can have this Trump chat?

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #105 on: June 9, 2017, 05:58:42 pm »
Apologies, yes there are
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #106 on: June 9, 2017, 06:35:17 pm »
So Donald is nothing new then?  This is all same old, same old?.....that's interesting!

Here I was thinking it was a bit odd that he is obstructing justice and abusing power so brazenly.  I thought it odd that longstanding allies from around the globe find it necessary to openly question America's role as a defender of free speech, democracy and human rights.  I thought it was odd that Donald bragged about assaulting women, entering teenage girls' changing rooms and talked about how he could murder a citizen of our country in broad daylight and get away with it.  I thought it was odd that a US presidential nominee refused to accept the results of a free and open election.  I found it odd that a presidential candidate could be openly off his fucking head on cocaine at debates and public speeches (unproven, but.....come on.  It was like the scene from the subliminal HBO '7 Days in Hell';  "he appears to be bleeding......from his nose...")  I found it odd that a president-elect held a press conference to announce that he was definitely definitely stepping away from his businesses while surrounded with hundreds of manila folders that nobody was allowed to look at or read.  I found it odd that several staffers on a US presidential campaign were in the employ of hostile foreign governments.  I found it odd that Donald invited Russian spies into the oval office and barred the rest of the world's media.  And on and on and on.......  Those felt like political firsts.  I'm glad to hear that this is all nothing new.

Comrade 4pool I bow to your superior experience.  Clearly the sky is not blue

LFOL..

So you parse a couple bits of my post to reinforce your views at the expense of what I actually said and then wonder why I don't participate. At no point did i claim any such thing about The Donald. Your post is like Fake news. But like I said, carry on..

This is why I left the politics discussion to the likes of you. Enjoy those threads.
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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #107 on: June 9, 2017, 07:02:12 pm »
Can't believe there are actual apologists for the Saudis in here. Seriously?

Offline leroy

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #108 on: June 9, 2017, 07:41:11 pm »
Wow there is some weird shit in here.

Look it's as simple as this.

The socceroos were playing in Adelaide a few days after finding out two Australians had died in an attack.  One of them was from Adelaide.  There is nothing political about stopping to remember them and anyone else effected by it unless people want to make it that way.  As an aside no mention was made of the poor bastard that was killed in Melbourne two days earlier by a guy who claimed it for ISIS/AQ - which I thought was weird.

The Saudi's should have behaved in a respectful manner, simply standing still would have been enough, the same as I would expect anyone representing Australia to respect anything of the kind wherever they go.  At the end of last year we played Thailand in Bangkok just after their King died.  There was talk of the game being called off or postponed, and expectations set about how any fans should behave at the game or in the country at that time.  That was respected (with the customary level of online whinging when people might be inconvenienced) and so it should have been.

If we were playing Iran this week I'd expect to see our players participating in whatever commemoration might occur at the game for those who were killed and injured during the attack in Tehran.
« Last Edit: June 9, 2017, 07:43:28 pm by leroy »

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: Saudi Arabia refuses observing minute of silence for London victims
« Reply #109 on: June 9, 2017, 08:33:07 pm »
To be honest this is the kind of clickbait that is becoming more commonplace on the Guardian website. Reading the article you get the impression that apart from the No. 7 the rest of the Saudi team completely ignored the silence and just carried on with their warmup.

The footage and the Australian media contradicts that though - in the footage you can see the Saudi team go to their positions on the pitch, there is a short cut of the No. 18 stood still with his hands on his hips, some movement in the back of the footage at around 0.55 on the Guardian clip (which I think is what the Australians were upset about as a couple of the Saudi players carried on stretching and jogging on the spot) and then when the camera cuts to a longer shot at the end of the silence the Saudi players are still stood in their positions. People above have questioned why the Aussie Comms didn't say anything but it seems like there wasn't much to comment on.

Clearly the right thing to do would have been for the Saudi team to come to the centre circle and properly observe the silence - something that their FA have apologised for. But it does seem like the Guardian are making a mountain out of a molehill here in the search for hits and advertising revenue.