Author Topic: In awe of George Berry  (Read 9342 times)

Offline john_mac

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In awe of George Berry
« on: February 13, 2004, 03:10:34 pm »
After ciriticism that my piss-taking post on the forum "Are there any Liverpool fans in here?" was simply not good enough, I thought that I would try to explain why I still have an unfaultering belief in the ability of our players and management team to progress and do far, far better than we have been doing.

The first thing is that I have no doubt that we are underachieving, probably have been for years and years. I cannot subscribe to the theory that in 2001 and 2002 the squad over-achieved, perhaps it is my blinkered outlook on life, maybe I’m blind to the truth but it is a honest and truthful opinion.

In 2001 particularly, we played with a defensive solidity only rivalled by Arsenal’s defence in recent years. The ability to soak up pressure and play to the strengths of the team were there for all to see. McAllister, Gerrard and Hamman all added midfield guile to this defensive solidity, Heskey played his best football for Liverpool, while Owen, the jewel in the crown, performed to such a level that he landed the European Footballer of the year crown. Add in to this excellent performances in a team designed to hurt the opposition in smash and grab raids of the likes of Smicer, Barmby and Berger and the nucleus of a very good team, built to play in a certain manner, was there for all to see.

So much was this in evidence that after his absence through serious illness, Houllier was welcomed like a conquering hero by all Liverpool fans, whatever they may claim now. Fitting it should be that that evening provided what could possibly be the best performance of his management era, and most certainly provided the best performance from the biggest enigma of Houllier’s reign, Heskey.

Since then Houllier has tried to expand the system, to have it develop into a style where we can dominate opposition, and there have been signs that this could be the case. Some of the early performances last season as well as long periods against Arsenal, United and Chelsea this have indicated that there is room for such an expansive system within our squad. In attempting to align a midfield with the likes of Deouf, Smicer, Gerrard, Le Tallec, Cheyrou and Kewell, of course he has attempted to take the game to the opposition.

I personally believe that excellent as the squad of 2001 & 2 was, the style in which it played, was probably never going to consistently receive the results to land the championship whilst the current squad is nowhere near consistent enough to do the same. Attacking midfielders are all well and good but attacking midfielders that do not deliver goals are a mystery. Gerrard is less likely to score now than he was in 2001, while Kewell aside Murphy would remain our most likely midfield marksman, given his performances this season, that has to be a mystery. OK, Cheyrou has done quite well and has landed a few goals, but he has failed to last the ninety and look likely to deliver a constant threat, it has been done in fits and starts.

It is an area that we have to look at, and closely. I have long thought that whilst a central midfield partnership of Gerrard and Hamman gives a great platform, there has to be an abundance of goals elsewhere to justify it. Kewell can give it, Cheyrou perhaps but then you start to struggle. I hope that Le Tallec can go on to become the player we all hope that he can if he can then this midfield may start to look a bit more balanced. It is interesting that the best attacking performances of the season have probably been in games devoid of Hamman’s presence.

The onus up front still lays far to heavily on Owen’s shoulders, if he is struggling, the goals dry up, he is pushed back from injury too quickly because of our over-reliance on him. We can only hope that the arrival of Cisse will ease the burden on Michael as Emile has failed to do this consistently over a period of time. Michael will extend his Liverpool contract.

Whilst both Baros & Pongolle provide tremendous potential I am not sure that either is ready at this stage nor that either is a more effective partner for Owen than Emile. That said, Milan was having easily his best spell for us immediately prior to his injury and we can only hope he can return to that level sooner rather than later. The future should provide plenty of competition up front, but the present cannot help but look short.

I am still reserving my opinion on Finnan. Jamie Carragher continues to improve and show commitment unrivalled anywhere even in the player wearing the captain’s armband, his enthusiasm and commitment is unrivalled in any team, his ability is often under-rated. Sami is undoubtedly more at home with Jamie in the defence, as he is with Stephane next to him. This is an area where Gerard is looking to strengthen.

Houllier looked to sign Duff, Cisse and Boumsong last summer so he was aware of where he wanted to improve of what he believed was necessary to transfer the defensive formula that was successful in 2001 to a more expansive, attacking team that could challenge for the title.

It is not because we signed Xavier or that we released Stephen Wright that has prevented us from challenging. It is certainly not a lack of desire in the manager nor his staff, and I do not believe it is his outlook on the game which has inhibited us.

We may have the best player in the country in Gerrard, I really do not know if he is, we may have as good an attacking midfielder as anybody around in Kewell and we certainly have one of the best, most thoughtful, conscientious forwards in the world in Michael Owen but that is only the skeleton of what is needed. I know that it has been said before, by me many times, but the quality of young players at our disposal is enormous, perhaps only Arsenal can compare. The question has to be if the manager can harness this quality and fulfil its potential, and if he can, why has he not done better with it over the last eighteen months.

Of course injuries this season have been unprecedented, worse than any I can remember, and that is not an excuse, it is a fact. Luck is an age old quality that is unrivalled in the careers of football managers, whilst some would claim that Gerard had every ounce of it possible in 2001, I cannot help but feel that everything he has touched this season has been dipped in shite.

We all supported the policy of recruiting youth, indeed Parry and Moores spoke of their unequivocal support of the policy, we now have to put our money where are mouths are and give this policy the opportunity to flourish, I honestly believe it can and that it will under Houllier.

The treatment Houllier has received from some quarters of what are laughingly known as Liverpool fans has been scandalous, a disgrace. The patience shown with some of the players, no better.

I hope and pray that he can deliver, and that his players will deliver for him, but most of all I believe that he will deliver and deliver the title home. Whether some Liverpool fans actually deserve the title is another matter, I don’t believe they do, in fact I think that on this seasons performances surely our fans must be amongst the worst in the country, lower than the Doctor Martin’s league.

The pathetic form of ‘modern fandom’ is most evident in internet forums amongst wankers who have been brought up on Championship manager games, have Carlsberg tops with “I 8 Man U” on the back, yet wouldn’t even know what bunkin' a train or going to Haydock Island was about. Middle class gobshites whose idea of ‘roughing it for the reds’ is a packet of ready salted when they wanted prawn cocktail on the coach watching Soccer AM.

For fucks sake there are teams all over the country who would die to be in our position. It’s not great we want to be doing better but 4th in the league, still in the FA and the UEFA is hardly the nightmare some would have you believe, unless you are some sort of knobhead who is obsessed with Man U, how good Henry is and how much Chelsea have got to spend.

I couldn’t give a fuck, I’m interested in Liverpool, our past, present & future. We have ability, of that there is no doubt, can we progress? We certainly can. Can we progress under Houllier? Undoubtedly so.

Over to you.

© john_mac 2004
« Last Edit: February 13, 2004, 06:38:20 pm by Rushian »
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Offline Aidan_B

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2004, 03:18:10 pm »
Good read, and respect your opinion, because you wear the same glasses that I do according to most.

Prefered the post Gareth locked mate.


Offline Olly

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2004, 03:36:43 pm »
Cracking read John. Thanks.

After our treble year it was plain to see that a lot of teams knew what to expect when they played us, and subsequently dropped a little deeper, flooded the midfield, and let us have the ball at the back. As a result GH has attempted to bring in players who can offer us more going forward, and has tried to change our style of play, so that our front one (two, or even three at times) are given more support.

At times this season, this has worked well, and the signs are encouraging. At other times the team just haven't looked interested, and of the fringe players who come on from time to time, it seems to me that their first priority is not too make a mistake (can't blame them for that, the rollicking that some of the players have had to endure at home at times this season).

It remains to be seen whether this new style of play will work consistently enough to deliver a title challenge, but it is encouraging that GH has insisted on attempting to continue with this "attacking" policy - save the odd tactical change to ensure a result is achieved.
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Offline Aremm

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2004, 03:38:39 pm »
a good, thoughtful, reasoned and, i think, balanced post john_mac...

can't help feeling though that such posts fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes) to those who won't be happy till houllier has gone, or we are beating teams by at least two clear goals week in week out with a style to match brazil going forward and italy at the back...

you are preaching to the converted here, but nowadays i feel like i am swimming against the tide, so it's good to see some like minded people...

i suppose the dissenting voices are always the loudest though so i live in hope...

Offline Ian72LFC

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2004, 03:52:24 pm »
Prefered the post Gareth locked mate.

Why? This ones got so much more to it.

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2004, 04:15:08 pm »

 The Club Captain weighs in...

 
Quote from: the official site
Captain Steven Gerrard reckons Liverpool fans have plenty of reasons to feel optimistic about the rest of the season.

With the Reds finally in fourth place in the Premiership table, and with FA Cup and UEFA Cup success still within their grasp, Gerrard says everyone at Anfield could still celebrate a successful end to the campaign.

Next up for the Reds is Sunday's FA Cup tie with Portsmouth and the skipper insists the players must make sure they aren't on the receiving end of an untimley upset.

He said: "It would be terrible if we let the good work of the previous rounds go to waste now.

"We were very professional against Yeovil and played well against Newcastle. It's at that stage in the cup where you don't want to get so far and then go out.

"We've got a run of games now which we should win. We also owe Portsmouth a bit.

"Our game down there was probably one of our worst of the season. We were missing a few players, but those who did play, myself included, didn't perform.

"We've a great opportunity to put that right. Things are different now. We've something to build on.

"We're in a Champions League spot, have two cups to go for and everyone's fit - a lot to be positive about."


87:13

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2004, 04:19:48 pm »
for me, whats been missing most of all is Carra. Babbel SH SH Carra was as solid a defensive unit as you could want and proved it gloriously. I too am not totally convinced about Finnan, but you'd put him out there every time. Kirkland was a top signing - a legend in the making.

How come Carra has suddenly got a wind for the oppositions box? He's priceless, as is SG. When I first saw him play I thought he could become the greatest Liverpool midfielder there has been, and am seeing nothing to disprove that possibility. He's coming into his prime right now so he can only get even better. GH's decision to make him captain was perfectly timed, some shook their heads, but it geed up Sami in the process, refuting the many claims that it would further see him decline.

It can't be easy for the influx of new players to come in and get to grips with the english league with players are dropping out here there and everywhere due to injury added. The last 14 months have been hard to take, but players, young and older, have played in a varied array of positions, and that can only be a good foundation. There has been one game this season where Geds tactics really pissed me off, and that was Newcastle away, but I feel we are slowly working our way out of the swamp - and the next 2 months or so will I believe, be decisive in securing not just MO's signature, or 4th place, or Geds job, but in forming the future success of the team.

My cup has been half full for a while. And I stiill believe that Heskey has a future here, and much to offer for the run in.

Offline El mooro

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2004, 04:37:59 pm »
Quote
yet wouldn';t even know what bunkin a train or going to Haydock Island was about. Middle class gobshites whose idea of ';roughing it for the red's; is a packet of ready salted when they wanted prawn cocktail on the coach watching Soccer AM

I'm sorry, but for the life of me, I can't see for the life me what "class" has to do with it.

If you allude to those who stay at home and mouth of on the radio then you have a point. If your argument is based on a classist generalisation then I think it's a weak one.

Agreed with the rest of the post in many parts, though I'm not convinced G.H. can take us to the promised land.

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Offline El mooro

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2004, 04:40:06 pm »
and I'd just like to say:

"for the life of me " again.

"for the life of me".

Feels good.

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2004, 04:54:19 pm »
With a big thank to Gareth for pointing out that my piss-take is simply not good enough

John, you shouldn't take things so personally ;) Your post was just the invitation....

Good to see you back on form though.

Offline AdamS

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2004, 06:17:52 pm »
Great post John! Agree with pretty much all of it!

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Offline filopastry

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2004, 06:28:16 pm »
Top post John

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2004, 07:05:22 pm »
As a middle class gobshite, I'd just like to say, spot on. I have always supported 'pool and always will, but from across the sea in Ireland. I had to suffer United dominnance and now it seems I'll have to suffer Arsenal dominance. So be it, tough though it may be to accept, the foundations are there. I personally hate fans who determine by teletext how well the team are doing. No interest, no idea. There is so much to be positive about, and if the team were allowed settle and build we could really go places. Instead we have naysayers in the media and harbringers of doom on talk-ins. Inevitably, the comparisons are to United, Arsenal and the Liv'pool of the 70s and 80s. We have no god given right to expect greatness, nor does it occur overnight. We have a superb set-up, hopefully a new stadium and a large squad, with quality players in it. What I personally would like to see are a few more players like Gerrard to compliment our foreign guile. Though I think Hamann is great, he probably doesn't bring that drive and passion that carra and Steve G have.
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Offline Bannside Red

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2004, 07:50:46 pm »
Great post John.

Sad as it sounds I have to agree that some of our so called supporters do not deserve the title.  :(

Offline Ian-TN

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2004, 08:13:43 pm »
A superb post mate. One of the best things I have read in a long time.
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Offline Joe C

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2004, 08:55:28 pm »
The best post I've read on this sight. A brilliantly considered piece.
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Offline IrishRed

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2004, 12:02:56 am »
if someone is 'middle class' does that make them less of a fan?

if someone is from outside Liverpool, let alone Merseyside, does that make them less of a fan?

i'm from working class estates but with a bit of luck and hard work am trying to get sorted (house etc).  does that make me less of a fan?

i love hearing the stories of lads travelling all over the land to follow the Reds, the mischief, bunking fares, thumbing lifts.  so because i sit in a car or on a coach, or on a train to the game does that make me less?

John, i know what you're saying, and i have and still do agree with a lot of your thoughts but i feel that sometimes sweeping generalisations are made, and are maybe not the case in all situations.
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Offline rms78

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2004, 02:50:24 am »
Excellent post !!

Offline john_mac

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2004, 09:06:39 am »
The point about the 'middle class wankers' who have not 'roughed it for the reds' is simple. It is not about being more or less of a fan, it is about a way of life and how you were brought up.

Today, 'The Premeiership', as it is laughingly known, is simply a Man United based TV conglomerate. So far as they are concerned, the rest of us are only in it to make up the numbers.
Most football fans are consumers, for me arseholes, who have grown up in an era where it was trendy for the middle classes to go to football games. They have never had to struggle to get to a game, the most difficult thing they do is pay over the odds once in a while for a ticket. The kids get a new top as soon as it comes out, not of this waiting for Chrimbo m'lrky, they have Liverpool wallpaper for fuck sake! Brought up on Sky Sports with an image of football as some sort of 'glamourous pastime' when it simply is not, and never has been the case.

There is no heart in it, they have 'bought in' rather than put their hearts into it. Don't get me wrong, I'm as guilty as anybody, I take our Kirsten the game, sit in the adult & child section, carry an LFC credit card, travel by train, stay in decent hotels, I'm not some sort of Che Guverra of the terraces.

In the 70s/80s when I learned about going the game it wasn't like this. If you'd got your thumb out to go to Southampton, you knew you'd been in for a day, if you actually got there it was a fucken miracle. If you'd got the midnight to London, jibbed it or not, then spent half the morning getting chased between Euston and the Bolyn by every c*nt with a Southern accent then you weren't gonna go into the ground and start worrying about whether your team was playing too defensively. You were ten foot tall, arrogant as fuck, and didn't give a shite what went on on the pitch as long as you came home with two points.

In those days the team was your heart, your sole- while not every player was the best in the World, we thought they were and fuck anyone who thought they weren't, what the fuck did they know anyway? Did they know better than Shankly? Did they fuck! Now every Tom, Dick and fucken Nigel is playing CM fucken four or whatever the latest version is and knows better than every manager in the country, its a joke.

That's the fucken point, its not about whether being middle class promotes a wose class of fans, its about whether the Sky fucken Sports Premiership promotes a Playstation class fans with the morals and beliefs a million miles from those that made Liverpool great.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2004, 09:13:23 am by john_mac »
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Offline longtimered

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2004, 09:30:45 am »
Firstly i should say top post-its good to see your arguements at this time even tho i do not agree with much of your blind optimism.Next year will see the fiftieth anniversary of my first visit to Anfield so i'm not an internet supporter brought up on championship manager.You always seem to want to damn/disparage people who have deep concerns about the way the team is evolving.
I should add that i dont think every result/substitution is a matter for emotional ranting about the manager who deserves respect for what he has achieved.His position should be reviewed at season's end when it should be clear whether or not the team are making progress;in the meantime he is the best option and should be supported accordingly.
I remember reading in another thread why you thought Roy Evans should be replaced-something to the effect that the team had ceased to develop and progress.It is going to take a lot to happen to avoid drawing the same conclusions by seasons end.The problem i feel for both managers is/was the quality of their signings.
You referred to the treble year-look at the players that have left that squad for a variety of reasons.Westerveld(Dudek),Babbel(Finnan),
Vignal(Risse),Barmby(Le Tallec),McAllister(Diao),Berger(Kewell),Litmanen(Cheyrou),Fowler(Diouf).We also have Pongolle and Kirkland.Whilst we have to be optimistic that maybe Le Tallec,Cheyrou can develop that hardly represents a strengthening of the squad.I also accept Kewell will perform better tho he is one of the laziest players i can recall.
Tactics debates -demands for more attacking play-divert us from the main issue.There are too many average players in terms of skill and abilty to perform in the intensity of premiership football.There's nothing wrong with defending a lead/killing a game but by retaining possession not hoof football.In 5 years in charge GH still cant get the team to be comfortable in possession.
Gerrard is a beacon,his pride in playing for the club linked to his ability is unquestionable-i think he may become of the greatest i have seen in 50 years.An example of encouraging youth from our own academy-but where are the next generation.The manager is hardly on speaking terms with the guy who runs it and seems only to give a local guy a chance as selection of last resort.We certainly dont suffer from an excess of pride and motivation in the current squad.
I hope John is right and i am wrong because we wont be 2-4 years away from making a realistic challenge if that is the case.I try not to write negative posts but i need to at least register the fact that its not only kids and glory hunters who have major concerns with the current regime.

Offline MorganStanley

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2004, 09:44:02 am »
Spot on mate! It really is heartening to find some people who agree with my stance on Liverpool fc and being a Liverpool supporter.

Offline AdamS

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2004, 10:30:33 am »
Longtimered - I really enjoyed reading your post. The only way to communicate when opinions are so diverse is to remove as much of the emotion as you can (this must have been more difficult for you than most), but you did this well in articulating your point. While I actually agree with Rob's sentiments more, I appreciate your points. Cheers :wave
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Offline john_mac

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2004, 10:33:07 am »
LTR when I was speaking about the nature of fans on the internet I am speaking entirely of that, I know plenty of peorple who have been around, people who I have travelled everywhere with for twenty odd years, who would disagree with me. They would not, however, rant and rave and give so little respect to a man who has gave everything he has got in the cause, which he undoubtedly has.

Disagreement is great, I have disagreed over players I thought were well over-rated in the past Craig Johnston, Stephen Wright and Jari Litmanen (in his Liverpool era) for example and there are some in todays squad that I think are nowhere near as good as others appear to, others I rate higher.

My main point when I talk about the lack of respect I have for the internet generation of fans is that they have no rspect for historical reference, everything is compared to Man United and they consequently demand instant success, the disgraceful scenes on Wednesday night, which was a thinly disguised attack on the manager, being a prime example of this. People who I know who would be happy to see the manager walk tomorrow cannot reconcile this type of thing in a game where we led, with the points hanging by a threaad, with being a Liverpool fan.

It is an honestly held belive of mine, trightly or wrongly, that passion for the tem has been replaced with an "I told you so" smarminess in so many quarters that it is untrue, it is almost as hough some want us to fail.

I believe that at times our away syupport can be fantastic, take a look at Newcastle, Leeds or United and even that our home support can be on occassions. But this tends to be when the make up of the crowd at Anfield is different than what it is for the big home league games, ironically against lower, shitter opposition in the less regarded competitions (when prices, incidently are lower and tere is not so much demand for tickets from certain quarters). This is why our fans have become second division, thsi is why our home support for Man City/ United/ Everton/ Arsenal is abysmal, a disgrace to the people who built the fortress.
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Offline longtimered

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2004, 11:50:09 am »
john
  i certainly agree re the quality of the fan base;i actually thought the treatment of Welsh and Le Tallec in the home game v arsenel was worse than anything in the week.Its the debate of fans versus spectators generally too.
  But this is not new and has evolved-i remember watching a game against Derby around 78/79 which we won 5-0.We didnt actually play well and there was no atmosphere cos expectations were so high;that was the season we got the points record. people expected an exhibition every game and it was around the time the spectator base started to expand significantly.
   There is also an issue of passion from the team(or lack of) which i think has some impact on the crowd.On the subject of passion i thought Bob Paisley,in his first season,had damaged the passion within the side he inherited from Shanks by playing a more patient style.Shows how much i know about football !!
   (thx for the comment monkey)

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2004, 03:03:07 pm »
Excellent piece John.  I was beginning to think I was the only "tube" who wanted to keep GH as manager.

I recall how poor Man Utd were between 1989 and 1991, how close Slur Squirty Arse got to getting the boot and what happened next when they didn't sack him.

I just don't think the current team is that far away.  A couple of additions to the squad (as well as a couple heading for the exit), honing of the tactics and style add in a bit of luck and I think we could really push for the big one next season.

Once again, excellent read.
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Offline Floundy

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2004, 03:26:47 pm »
Great post what more can I say
I am JD, and that's the end of that chapter...........

Offline Hinesy

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2004, 07:06:33 pm »
Quote
That's the fucken point, its not about whether being middle class promotes a wose class of fans, its about whether the Sky fucken Sports Premiership promotes a Playstation class fans with the morals and beliefs a million miles from those that made Liverpool great.

Now this is a very good point.
I disagree with the view that: a) class and b) location have an effect on what kind of fan you are. (I would cos I'm middle class and don't live in Liverpool.)

What I am, though is old, and pre-premiership, pre 'lad' culture, pre 'instant results or instant change.'

Championship Mangers aka keyboard warriors are 10 a penny these days.

What I agree with John is this :
There is a huge difference between 'opinions' and principles. Where you're from in any sense doesn't matter. How you support your club is another.
Yep.

Offline adamski

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2004, 09:22:52 pm »
Absolutely superb post.
All match goers should read this.

Offline Big Ig

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2004, 12:39:27 am »
Fantastic post, marred very slightly by a couple of generalisations...

I'm unashamedly middle class in upbringing, but I've blown the dole cheque and starved for a week before now to see the reds, so don't go generalising too much by making it a class issue...

Also, One thing I think we can draw from ManUre's success, and that is the length of time it took to achieve it! Patience is a virtue fer chrissakes.

Which brings me onto the second generalisation, about it being the internet / Champ manager generation that are wholly guilty for this impatience, booing and lack of longtermism prevalent in the ground these days... In my experience, it is the thirtysomethings and upwards that are at least as guilty, if not more so, of such attitudes, as they feel they should win everything by default, based upon our past successes. Our history, great as it is, is fast becoming a dead weight around our necks.

john
  i certainly agree re the quality of the fan base;i actually thought the treatment of Welsh and Le Tallec in the home game v arsenel was worse than anything in the week.Its the debate of fans versus spectators generally too.

Good point... I'd forgotten about all the unforgivable groans and moans that followed their every touch, by muppets who didn't even know who the hell they were!!  :no
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 12:51:15 am by Big G Superhero »

Offline IrishRed

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2004, 10:21:13 pm »

I'm not some sort of Che Guverra of the terraces.


 ;D

cheers for replying John.

you say its about a 'way of life and how you were brought up'  of course there is a difference between when you started going the game and when i started.  i know you're not having personal digs, just a general statement of what does really bother you, but i have to say, that had i been born 5, 10, 20 or however years earlier i would have tried whatever means to get to see the Reds - maybe if that had happened then i might have been able to tell some cracking stories of my own rather than being enthralled listening to yours and others tales of following the Mighty over land, air and sea.

i know what you're saying and i agree with the crowd issues.  its a case of 'instant success or out the door'.   as a club we draw support from all over the world and that crosses many sectors of class, wealth and any other comparitable difference.

going to Anfield is a cultural experience - cross community world relations gone fucking crazy!  but i don't have anything against those people.  i wouldn't critise based purely on where they're from, but as you highlighted - its the actions.

we've had incidents at games this season, where GH has been accused of being a prick because certain players weren't involved (broken bones obviously nothing major these days), the incident at the arsenal game (talk about making a player uneasy), on wed night we had a guy giving Emile dogs abuse before he even got on (a quick turn of the head and a 'give him a fucking chance' quietened them down') - these aren't isolated incidents - they have went from the rare to the norm.

i'm a 'new breed' of Red.  a Red fan all my life but only recent years due to circumstance and finance that i've been able to go to games, and it breaks my heart to see what Anfield has become.  so i can't even imagine what it must be like for the 'old guard'.  unfortunately Anfield has become a fashion accessory.  lack of respect and knowledge for what our club is about.

the question is 'is the situation irretrievable?'  has it gone too far.  and what can be done to change it around.  much has been made of the atmosphere (or lack) at games amongst other things - do we have unreserved sections?  do we scrap the tickets?
LFC SHOULD NEVER PLAY ON THE 15TH APRIL, NOT THIS YEAR, NEXT YEAR OR ANY OTHER YEAR

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Re: In awe of George Berry
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2004, 01:15:18 pm »
Very much agree - particularly with the comments about the shocking state of some of our supporters at the moment. At this rate playing at home is going to end up being a disadvantage with all the idiots putting so much energy into slagging the team and manager off instead of getting behind the reds. I'm sick of all the short-term thinking and piss poor appreciation of what it means to be a Liverpool supporter that abounds at the moment - I seriously think the reactions to the City win and Portsmouth draw (with a turn out more worthy of Villa than Liverpool) point to the lowest ebb for Liverpool supporters I can remember. More problems in the stands than on the pitch by far.